Email us questions at [email protected], subject line “Businesslady.” Previous installments can be found here.
Dear Businesslady,
I started a job about a year ago at a small, woman-centered non-profit organization. My boss, the executive director (“ED”), is a few years older than me. We’re alike in many ways and get along fine, but there seems to be a class/income divide coloring our interactions, and I need help in navigating it. I grew up in a solidly middle-class home where I didn’t lack for much but money wasn’t something ever taken for granted. My husband and I make very decent salaries in our fields but struggle to make ends meet just dealing with basic expenses of a mortgage, food, daycare, etc. ED grew up very well-off and travels in much higher-income circles than I’m used to. We both have several young kids and are juggling the work-life balance, but ED has an au pair to handle the occasional sick day or snow day doctor’s appointment, whereas my husband and I both work full-time and trade off missing work to take care of the kids in these instances. This past winter was pretty brutal in our region. For months I didn’t go more than a couple of weeks without missing work for a school snow day or a kid getting sick. Every time I had to stay home, I did what I could from my laptop while watching the kids and stayed in regular contact, including calling in to meetings. This spring I also ran a major project, which involved putting in about a month of 80-hour workweeks. I understood that in a salaried, not hourly, position, overtime happens, and I never brought up whether this considerable extra time could be credited toward anything.
Last week, I asked for two days off this fall to attend a family wedding, and ED told me that that would put me over the 15 vacation/sick days we get each year, and if I took off for the wedding my pay would be docked or I would have to work a couple of Sundays. She recommended that if I had to miss work in the future, I hire a sitter. I haven’t said anything yet, but I’m kind of steamed at this, especially since I worked so much overtime for the spring project, and have taken pains to get work done from home every time I’ve had to be out of the office. Hiring a sitter is very hard when a kid gets sick on short notice. I think ED is has a case of “au pair privilege” here, and I’m not sure how to ask her to be more flexible.
Dear Steamed,
Let me start by saying I get you—I totally get you. There’s nothing worse than being dinged on “policy” in a way that seems to totally disregard all the above-and-beyond work you’ve been doing. And when you add in something fundamental like “ensure my own children are being looked after,” then multiply that by “boss apparently doesn’t understand that the strategies she uses aren’t workable for me,” you’ve got a perfect storm of resentment waiting to happen.
But while resentment can occasionally crystallize into productive resolve, it mostly just metastasizes into generalized unhappiness that serves no valuable purpose. So in an attempt to avoid that, let’s see what can be done about this situation.
From my view, there are a few separate issues woven together here:
- an unusually brutal winter with a correspondingly unusual impact on your kids’ school attendance and health,
- a pay/privilege disparity between you and your boss,
- a variable workload that sometimes places big demands on your time,
- a lack of compensation (official or otherwise) for your above-and-beyond efforts, and
- a limited pool of time off that’s meant to cover all absences, both planned and unplanned.
The first two are the “easiest,” in that there’s no changing them. Weather, illness, and bad luck are inevitable, and even if I hope the next few months go by without the words “polar vortex” dominating all media, there’s always Something that will lay waste to your best-laid plans. Similarly, there’s not much that can be done about your boss’s fancypants upbringing and corresponding socioeconomic advantages—and the fact that she makes more money than you makes sense in terms of organizational hierarchy.
So that leaves us with the last three bullet points, which are related but could still benefit from some disentangling.
There are pros and cons to the “all time off is the same” approach—pro, you can take hooky days with impunity and you get more vacation time if you’re generally illness-free; con, a spate of sickness can leave you without any discretionary days off, as you’re finding out. But usually these sorts of policies are governed by a variety of factors beyond employees’ control, and aren’t easily revised, so it’s probably worth accepting that things will remain the same for the foreseeable future.
Now, we’re down to two issues: the time you’ve put in, and the lack of recognition for your extra work. I think the key is right here: “I never brought up whether this considerable extra time could be credited toward anything.” Of course you didn’t! You were doing what needed to be done, and assuming everything else would fall into place. But it didn’t, and now here we are.
In my very first column, I mentioned my (and my dad’s) philosophy of “if ya don’t ask, ya don’t get.” It’s time for you to do some asking and, hopefully, some getting. While some workplaces are strictly opposed to anything with a whiff of “comp time” to it, your boss’s suggestion that you work Sundays to balance out your over-the-limit vacation days implies that she’d be willing to consider it. So whenever there’s an opportune moment—a regular check-in, a meeting that doesn’t take place during a moment of crisis, a day when you’re feeling up to the challenge of a potentially difficult conversation—sit down with her and make your case.
While your kids and their needs are an inextricable part of this, try to keep the focus on your actual work as much as possible. Quickly gloss your childcare situation and the infeasibility of an au pair or regular sitter (no explanation’s needed; just say “it’s not an option for us” if pressed, because it’s none of your boss’s business who watches your kids as long as it’s not interfering with your productivity). Point out that the limited amount of time off you have available can quickly be eaten up by force-majeure misfortunes and ask if there’s any way to translate your long hours during busy periods into schedule flexibility when things are slower. Emphasize how willing you are to meet the organization’s needs regardless of how much it cuts into your personal life, and point to any obvious value you provided in the recent past (“you’ll recall that our donors were thrilled with my presentation,” or whatever’s applicable).
In the course of this discussion you might have to accept that the 80-hour workweeks you put in won’t be able to “count” toward future time off, simply because there wasn’t previously a system in place for doing that. However, I’d start by asking if that time could be applied toward one or two future absences—and if that’s a no-go, you can look gracious by accepting the ruling as part of a broader negotiation.
Another component of the conversation should concern what “working from home” entails. On the one hand, if you’re truly working (as in, treating it as a normal workday), you should have someone else keeping an eye on your progeny. But if this is a case of “kids home from school, neighborhood buried in snow, trying to make some progress on a work project despite being surrounded by tiny distractions,” then there should be some mechanism for acknowledging your efforts to minimize the disruption of your absences.
It’s easy to surrender to inertia regarding things like “what are my obligations to my employer” and “how do we handle time off”—it’s not fun to initiate A Talk and generally not worth it if the issues are few and far between. Once you start feeling grumpy about the way you’re being treated, though, that’s a sign that you need to purge your emotions, think critically about what an ideal arrangement would look like, and make the case to your boss for why you deserve it.
If you don’t get the response you’re hoping for, then you have to decide whether or not you can live with the new reality—but at least you’ll have a more firmly defined sense of what your options are, and most likely you’ll end up in a better spot than where you started. And, if nothing else, you’ll have confidence that your boss knows where you’re coming from, and future discussions can build on that mutual understanding.
—Businesslady
Dear Businesslady,
My colleague, Helena, has been aggressively pursuing friendship with me – the kind of friendship that goes beyond a regular, friendly, positive coworker relationship. I have always been willing to develop deeper friendships with colleagues, but I do not want to be “outside work” friends with Helena for many reasons (I haven’t listed them because I don’t believe they matter. I believe all my colleagues are entitled to kindness and respect in the workplace, but that it’s my sole decision which ones, if any, get let into my wider life, and in whose wider lives I will participate). In the face of her advances, I have reacted coolly. Recently, when our office was empty, Helena trapped me in my cubicle and confronted me about my behavior, saying [paraphrases ahead]: “I try to engage with you, and you give me nothing back. I want us to be friends, and I don’t like seeing you be more relaxed with other colleagues than you are with me. You know I have a history of bad blood and drama with Cosima, yet you’re better friends with her than me: I don’t understand why. Is there something offensive about the way I talk to you? Why don’t you want to be my friend?”
I was very uncomfortable, but I told her the truth, or at least most of it: “This is my personality and how I’ve reacted to you is part of that. I always focus on my professional relationships first and let friendships grow naturally out of that.” I did not want to say any version of “I don’t want to be friends with you, just colleagues” because we are in a field where Helena and I will have intersecting careers until one of us moves to a dramatically different metro area. I need to maintain a positive relationship with her professionally, and I sensed that if she heard “I don’t want to be friends, just colleagues” then the bad blood she has with Cosima would be the same story she’d have about me.
At the end of this confrontation, Helena asked if we could “just start over” and I agreed. Since then, her behavior hasn’t changed at all. She interrupts my work to make friendly overtures, she pays me compliments – not just on normal things, like a new piece of jewelry or an outfit, but on my face or body – and during conversations she overshares about her personal life. She is also imposing herself on my work projects when I haven’t asked for help, despite my telling her that her assistance isn’t needed. Our manager is non-confrontational and has been ineffective at curbing Helena’s behavior, even though I’m not the only one who has been bothered by her (especially by the way she interrupts others during their workflow). I’ve been trying to save Helena’s feelings by treating her more warmly, but still without opening up my personal life to her or encouraging her to spend even more time interrupting my work. My question is: how should I behave toward Helena from now on? How much should I involve my manager in my concerns? And what should I have done differently up to now so that I can learn from whatever mistakes I made?
Sarah
Dear Sarah,
First of all, A++ pseudonym usage. I can see why Helena wants to be BFFs—you like Orphan Black! And you read The Toast, so obviously you have incredible taste.
Okay, reciprocal flattery aside, I think you basically have the inverse problem as the first letter-writer. While her issue needs to be addressed via a frank conversation, I think your situation has already been talked through enough. If anything, it’s been talked through too much.
Here’s the thing: some people just aren’t meant to be friends. And some people don’t realize that they’re not meant to be friends with certain other people. I’ve been in your position before, where I start to establish a rapport with a coworker only to realize “yikes, we need to dial this thing back into colleague territory”; I’ve also been in a version of Helena’s position, where my efforts to become buddies with someone are clearly being rebuffed. It hurts to feel rejected, but putting someone on the spot with any version of “why don’t you like me?” is a bad way to handle it. It’s like asking a partner to explain—really explain—why they’re breaking up with you: any useful intel you’ll get out of it won’t be worth the salt you’re pouring into your own open wound.
Obviously Helena didn’t write to me, you did; but if I were giving her advice I’d say she needs to just let things lie. And my advice to you is largely the same, just from the other side.
You’ve already been handling this well: maintaining appropriately cordial relations with Helena while sticking to your own professional boundaries. I’d keep treating her the same way you have been—don’t spend too much mental energy on achieving perfect friendliness parity across all your coworker interactions, but continue trying to avoid doing anything that she might perceive as a slight (and thus, an excuse to dredge up more drama).
I’m hoping for your sake and hers that the “why don’t you like me” interrogations are over, but if she raises that issue again, try to deflect and disengage. “Helena, I don’t know how to answer that—I appreciate you as a colleague but I try to keep my personal life separate from my professional life.” If she presses this issue and points to your apparent closeness with another coworker: “There’s a long history there that I don’t want to get into, but in any event Alison is the exception not the rule.” (And if she brings up this “bad blood” that makes your relationship with Cosima feel like a betrayal: “Whatever happened between you and Cosima is between you and Cosima; I don’t consider it any of my business and I refuse to get in the middle of it.”)
This approach extends to all your future interactions with her from now on—the goal here is a breezy tone that nevertheless shuts down further interaction. If she starts getting too chatty, end the conversation: “I’m really busy with this project and talking about personal stuff is a distraction.” If she tries to make plans to get together outside of work: “My schedule is ridiculously hectic right now, but I’ll get back to you whenever it seems like I might be free to hang out” (which, of course, can conveniently never happen). If she says something about your appearance that makes you uncomfortable: “Can we please not discuss my face/body? That doesn’t really feel work-appropriate.”
If “bad blood” is the end result of all this, so be it—it doesn’t sound like she’s in a position to totally destroy your career, and people can coexist in the same professional circles even if they don’t get along. Staying determinedly pleasant, but reserved, will ensure that you’re not dragged down to her level.
As for your question about involving your manager, I would say handle this yourself; it’s basically a personal issue that just happens to be playing out in a workplace. (After all, what would your manager even do—tell Helena, “stop trying to be friends with Sarah”? It just seems like any intervention would only make things worse by making Helena feel even more isolated.)
However, the “Helena inserting herself into projects” thing actually is a work issue. I’d start raising this with your manager (if you haven’t already), but only in terms of its effect on your productivity. Since your boss is nonconfrontational, you can eventually build up to requesting permission to police your own time: “So since we’re in agreement that I’m handling the Dyad project, should I tell Helena that I don’t need her input?” And so on, and so on—your other coworkers will probably start following your lead, and the problem will eventually correct itself.
In an ideal world, she’ll eventually move on from her current quest to befriend you. In a less ideal world, she’ll still be somewhat of an irritant for as long as you work together, but you’ll reach a symbiosis where you’re not constantly worrying about what new conflict she’ll introduce into your workday.
—Businesslady
P.S. To “Helena,” or anyone who’s reading this and cringing in recognition: I just want to reiterate that we’ve all been there (or, at least, I’ve certainly been there, and inevitably will be again). One person’s disinterest in pursuing a friendship is not a referendum on your worth as a person or your inherent likability; it just means you + that person ≠ friends. We’re all a little bit like cilantro—some people are like “yesss, this makes everything better” when we’re around, and others are like “nooo, why’d you ruin this otherwise good thing.” The sooner you move on to establishing connections with people who truly appreciate you, the happier you’ll be in the long run.
LW#1 (Steamed): If you’re exempt from overtime (which it sounds like you are), then your boss can’t dock your pay for missing two days of a week. I’m not sure how she would handle it, but she definitely can’t dock your pay. You can be docked leave, but if you don’t have any leave? No clue. But I wanted to add that note. (Thanks, Ask a Manager, for teaching me this.)
I was wondering that! Doesn’t salaried not hourly translate to more flexibility for time in and out of the office, especially if you’re not eligible for overtime? My experience in salaried offices w/o overtime has always been “don’t care where or how long it takes, as long as it gets done. we pay for the work you do, not the time it takes you to do it. also, be on time & present for meetings.” and as a general rule, if you’re going to be strict about time spent in the office, there should also be a no-device/no-work from home policy. we need boundaries people! and without boundaries, we need flexibility! otherwise, it’s old-world living with new-world expectations.
there’s salaried offices that work like that, and salaried offices where salary means free overtime whenever they feel like it and you should just feel grateful to have a white-collar-sounding pay schedule, peasant
the former are nice when you can get them and the latter are the places you quit to work for a nice place with a respectable hourly wage and a manager who respects you enough to work with you on negotiating non-schedule-shredding quantities of time off requested months in advance
Yep.
I’m lucky enough to work for an employer that does allow some scheduling flexibility to salaried employees, but it seems like most places just use it as a dodge to avoid paying overtime (e.g., the hospital where my mom works as a “salaried” admin nurse).
Unfortunately, full-day absences for personal leave, like a family wedding, can be docked in the US.
FSLA Section 541.602(b)(1):
Deductions from pay may be made when an exempt employee is absent from work for one or more full days for personal reasons, other than sickness or disability. Thus, if an employee is absent for two full days to handle personal affairs, the employee’s salaried status will not be affected if deductions are made from the salary for two full-day absences. However, if an exempt employee is absent for one and a half days for personal reasons, the employer can deduct only for the one full-day absence.
But it is always good to remind everyone (in the US) that if you don’t get overtime when you work more than 40 hours, you typically can’t be paid less than your usual salary when you work less than 40 hours! If your employer does that, they’re in violation of the FLSA and could be sued for the back overtime pay of all affected employees.
Man, that first letter got under my skin. Should “small” and “nonprofit” and “woman-centered” all equal more flexibility? I kind of just want LW to say fine, but the next time I have a day off, I’m not answering an email, I’m not calling in, off means off. I know it’s a bratty response, but it kind of seems like LW is in a position of giving and giving and giving (above and beyond!) and getting nothing back.
It always blows my mind how illogical and/or overly bureaucratic some employers are about time off. It makes me so thankful that my supervisors are very practical about those kinds of things. Moreover, it makes me more willing to take on big projects or stay late once in a while or respond to an email or two outside of work hours, because I know 1) it’s not something DEMANDED of me–it’s my own choice, and 2) they’ll acknowledge the effort in the future when I need to work from home for a day or leave early for something. I know that this isn’t necessarily an arrangement that would work in all offices/all jobs, but man does it seem more functional than “You have used X days off for snow days where no buses were running. You MUST come into the office with the flu (and infect everyone here), because you are out of sick time.”
I don’t think that’s such a bratty response. I would ask the ED to clarify the difference between a day off and a telecommuting day, because it sounds like she’s been docked all of her leave time for days when she was actually working.
From people I know in the non-profit world, that arena can be absolutely the worst for family-friendliness. And sucking their employees dry of all energy and joy, etc.
She needs to have that frank discussion Businesslady suggests, but I’d be polishing up my resume, too. Some places are just not interested in their employees’ well-being.
Yeah, I’ve had to say to a few of my friends, look, believing in the mission of your non-profit doesn’t mean you have to bleed yourself dry to serve the organization. A good friend works for a DV awareness org, and I had to say to her once, you do realize that you can bitch about your job and wish the org had better management right? Having those feelings doesn’t instantly make you pro-domestic violence or anything. I got a laugh from her, at least.
It took me about a year to figure that out in this job–believing in the mission doesn’t mean it’s above reproach, and knowing that funding is always an issue definitely doesn’t mean you have to self-abnegate so the org survives.
Nonprofits, man.
Nonprofit’s a tax status, it doesn’t mean you’re working for a convent. Some of the most ridiculous Trump-esque aristocratic lifestyles I’ve seen were in the executive positions of nonprofits, and some of the ugliest most abusive work environments. Also some of the best, and best-paid, jobs I’ve ever had, cause lots of them are just swimming in money they can spend on the workplace instead of shareholders, but yeah. It’s a business, nominally tied to a good cause, and unless you’re personally pulling the orphans out of the burning building you’re not doing a great and noble deed by breaking yourself for them for no pay.
In my (unfortunate) experience, working in the nonprofit sector makes some boss types think they get a free pass on treating their workers badly. Because they work for a nonprofit, so they’re GOOD people, so anything and everything they do is OKAY, right, because they’re GOOD people!!! I also think that in this kind of environment women bosses also feel to treat their female employees badly because what are you going to do, sue them for sex discrimination? They’re women too! They can’t be sexist! Because they’re women! And because they’re GOOD people, and everything and anything they do is JUST GREAT!
Small can be great if it means you know and are on good terms with the whole chain of command, or it can be every startup horror story the Internet has to tell. Nonprofit can be great if the higher-ups treat it professionally as a business with a mission bigger than just making money, or it can be the excuse they use for why they don’t have to follow basic good practices or treat their employees like human beings who work for a living.
Asserting your worth and not just giving people free time because they want it is definitely something I’d recommend in the general (if the work you do is worth money, they can pay you for it!) cause more often than not people are worth a good deal more to the company than they’re making, but it’s defo something you have to feel out in the context, depending on the workplace and your relationship to it and how expendable you are. In any case I wouldn’t even consider doing 80 hours for multiple weeks without some kind of compensation (a box of donuts in the staffroom is not compensation) or something better than a scrub-ass 15-day PTO package, either you’re an interchangeable entry-level schlub in which case they don’t need more than the contractual bare minimum from you or you’re an indispensable part of the program and everything really will just come down in flames if you’re not working two fulltime jobs in which case they can damn well compensate you accordingly.
The cilantro analogy is a good one, but I would also add that sometimes being good friends outside of work with someone complicates your ability to work with them. One of my best friends is also a coworker (she is the reason I have the job), and it is much better that we don’t work on the same project. We go to each other for advice about work stuff, we bitch about work to each other, but not working together means that we don’t BECOME the thing that the other one is bitching about.
Making friends as an adult can be really hard, and a lot of people look to work as a place to meet people, but someone being easy to get along with at work doesn’t necessarily mean that they’ll be a good friend fit for you. While you really only ever know as much about a person as they share with you, in most workplaces what people choose to share is a curated facade. (This is not to say that people are lying/acting, but rather that they are not letting their freak flags fly at the office). They may be intense introverts whose social quota is fully met by a day at the office! They may have busy, active social lives that don’t really have room/time for more people. They may have politics/values that are diametrically opposed to yours but that they keep quiet in the workplace.
My thoughts exactly. I have a couple of really close friends at work– I mean people who have seen me at stage 5 drunk and who know all about my latest medical problems. But they are all people from outside my department for 2 reasons– first, I don’t want my supervisors to see me all chummy with the person at the next desk during work hours, and second, the best part of having coworker friends is getting to talk shit on your other coworkers, and it’s always best if the topics of discussion aren’t people we both work too closely with.
15 days off per year? For both vacation AND sick time? Truly, thou’rt being screwed.
THIS IS WHAT MY HUSBAND HAS AT HIS NEW JOB AND IT’S BULLSHIT. After sick days for kids + snow days there’s basically nothing left. We’ll never go anywhere ever again.
I had that exact same PTO arrangement at my last job! It is no coincidence that it stopped working out so hot once kids entered the picture – though at least my work was open to comp days. Guess who’s a freelancer now?!
yeaaaah I work for a nonprofit and am remunerated NOT HANDSOMELY but damn I get 25 days off a year and I am never ever ever asked to work anything close to 80 hours a week. God bless UK working culture, or at least this small pocket of it, which seems to be marginally more sane than US working culture.
It is a particularly big load of bullshit for a non-profit. NFPs expect a lot from their workers with usually very little pay, and they are SUPPOSED to give you amazing benefits in return: free (or very cheap) health/dental insurance, at least 3 weeks vacation + sick days + bereavement + personal days (for a total of about 20 – 30 PTO), and if you’re in a national organization a professional development stipend (small, but something), and a match for your 401k/403b.
And here I was thinking I would really like 15 days off, because in the company I’ve worked for for the last four years, I get 3 sick days and 80 hours (10 days) of paid time off a year, accruing at a rate of 6.67 hours a month (so I don’t have all 80 hours on January first, I have to save them up over the year). So thirteen days total.
3 sick days a year is criminally low.
frustrating how much of a fight it was to get mandatory sick days in New York City, nevermind the rest of the country. http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2015/09/16/37017…
I mean, to be fair, the only reason I’ve been using all three is because I’ve also been using them for things that aren’t actually me being sick, because in 2012, I used none of them and decided that wasn’t gonna happen again, because throwing away three days of leave was disheartening. (Even if that basically just means that once or twice a year “I’m not feeling well” means “I just really really need a day off for my mental health and I know I have nothing pressing on my plate today that can’t wait until tomorrow morning.”)
“One hour of paid sick for every 30 hours worked, up to three days per year, for everyone” is a law that’s trending in the blue states. It’s crazy that this should be an improvement! But in most of the USA, your employer doesn’t have to give you ANY sick days. Sick day policy mostly relies on tradition and custom in the USA, and the tradition is that if your job is low wage, sickness = malingering and you’re lucky if you don’t get fired for staying home with the flu; forget being paid.
It’s immoral and abusive, but not criminal.
I have been in the professional working world for 10 years. Half of that time was for a non-profit. I have never had 15 vacation days.
I think that’s pretty typical in the US for entry-level salaried positions. It’s exactly what my boyfriend gets, and many of my friends; I am slightly luckier and get 15 vacation days while any sick day falls under “temporary disability.” Because of that, if I’m sick, I typically work from home as much as I’m able. Some people do take advantage of that flexibility, but it’s not hurting our bottom line, so I feel like more companies should really consider it.
I agree entirely.
My current work is pretty good about vacation/sick/floating holidays, but the stories I hear…america fuck yeah, right?
If she’s actually giving presentations to important people and is in an exempt position, she is unlikely to be entry-level. Most entry-level jobs fit the IRS criteria for being non-exempt.
I have 10 days of PTO + 5 sick days. I make it work (mostly because I don’t have kids and don’t get sick that often), but more would definitely be better.
I really don’t know how people with kids manage. I have about the same number of days as you (though mine is all PTO, with no dedicated sick days), and it seems to evaporate pretty quickly.
And I haven’t taken an actual vacation in **years**– it’s just a day here and there for sick days, parent/ grandparent stuff, home repairs, etc. The last time I took a full week off was 4 years ago when my grandma broke her hip.
Spouse and I made it work for a few years by him having a day job and me having a night job. Burnout is a thing, though.
That seems to be the norm for most professionals I know who are my age (mid 30s). I’m an attorney, and that’s about what I get.
It took me many, many years of working temp and contract positions to find a “real” job with ANY benefits. Before that, I never had any paid time off– just unpaid days if I was too sick to come in. And a lot of my friends in non-salaried jobs don’t get any paid vacation or sick days.
The only person I know in the US who gets generous vacation time is my dad (who gets six weeks), but only because he’s been with the same company for 37 years. (And they’re much less generous now with their newer employees).
Yep, fellow attorney, and I get two weeks vacation + 3 days sick leave. But I also generally only work around 45-50 hours a week, I don’t have to work weekends, and my partners are really flexible about doctor’s appointments and so on. And if I really got sick and had to be out for a few more days, they’d help me find ways to work around it. (I love my firm.)
I’ve had some friends thinking about moving to the US (I’m in the Netherlands) and they get considerably less enthused about it when I explain US vacation policies.
Just wait until they find out about our exciting health care options!
I have 11. Total. It’s garbage.
I get 10 vacation days per year. My office is also closed for the week between Christmas and New Years, but if it weren’t, I would have a tough time managing with that amount of vacation.
It also helps that our sick day policy is basically “if you’re sick, stay the hell home. maybe answer emails if you can.”
For a lot of companies in Pgh. that’s actually considered *good*. Most places don’t do sick time, if they do it’s very limited, and vacation for more than 2 weeks starting is unheard of, and until you’ve been around 10+ years, you’re lucky to get 3 weeks. (This is at admin assistant or young professional positions, which don’t matter as much, but still.)
I only get 18 days PTO total (10 vacation, 5 sick, 3 personal) at my NFP job (just passed the 2-year mark) at the moment, though that number will go up at the start of the next FY. 15 days or so is pretty a standard PTO for the first few years, unless you come in at a more senior level and are able to negotiate more leave. The OP notes she did only start working there a year ago!
That said, my boss is MUCH more flexible about comp time (though we are very strictly not allowed to call it that, particularly in any written form).
I know we all want to look like we have hustle, but 80-hour work weeks as a matter of course, even in the short-term? Absolutely not.
No. Way.
Like one week as a fluke schedules-collide thing, okay, sometimes shit happens – assuming you’re in the kind of fairly integral role that should have the leverage to negotiate days off, and if management’s for shit there should be fantastic prizes at the end of the hell week. As a routine or extended thing, that’s just the company exploiting you cause they figure they can walk all over you to get two peoples’ labor for the cost of one.
But honestly more like 1.5 people’s labor, because it’s not like anyone can do good quality work at that point.
this doesn’t frankly sound like a workplace that factors any rewards for treating people better than it legally has to into its calculations
When I worked for an accounting office, this was standard for a lot of people during the first two weeks of January and the first two weeks of April, but the business is also seasonal and pays well ennough that a lot of the people with seniority can afford to take 6 months off.
It depends! My org has a few annual conferences, so I definitely pull at least close to that number the week before and the week of. We’re a small shop, so it’s all hands on deck and we’re all aware that’s just how things are those 4 weeks out of the year.
A month solid sounds exhausting to me, though!
All amazing advice, but for LW2, I feel like if you’re rebuffing post-works plans, I would not offer to get back to the person about a time I might be free in the future, if in fact I will never be free. As much as that feels like a reflexively polite thing to do — and it does soften the blow of “I’m too busy to hang out with you” — some people take that as an actual, literal promise, and then that can create a whole other vortex of shit.
I would leave it at, “I’m sorry, I’m just SO busy right now, I’ve barely had time to sleep/eat/see my partner/take a shit.”
I’m so bad at that! Not in a work situation, but generally… I’ve gotten screwed before by rejecting plans with a “maybe some other time?” and never following up.
So this is great advice that I wish I’d known in college.
TBH I am totally cribbing from Captain Awkward’s playbook here. It’s the same thinking as her advice not to tell someone you don’t want to be with romantically that you can’t be with them right now if that’s not the truth; it sets up an expectation that things could be different in the future, if they just wait patiently, when in fact you are trying to tell them gently that you don’t like them that way.
Captain Awkward is my life guru.
Agreed. Saying “maybe some other time” when you mean “when hell freezes over” is not actually all that nice if the other person is genuinely interested. You create the expectation that it’s present circumstances, not your desire, that prevents you from engaging in the activity. And you set yourself up to be annoyed because they’re going to repeat an offer that you think you’ve rejected.
This stood out to me, too. Don’t promise to get back in touch, because then they’ll be waiting for it, and you’ll both know it, and it will be weird. Promise nothing. All you need is a, “Thanks, but no.”
LW1! Do you earn days off or hours off? If you earn hours (and this will probably work for days too), do not take time off for hours you are working at home. If you’re taking phone calls but also taking sick/vacation time – either stop taking calls and be fully “off” or only take 5 hours instead of 8, if you worked for example for 3 hours while at home on a snow day. I otherwise agree with BusinessLady, but that might help you save some time here and there for, you know, actual vacation. Best of luck!
This is what I do. If I work from home, I fill out my timesheet with the hours I worked. Sometimes I wake up sick and need to go back to bed and only work the afternoon. In that case, my time sheet will list 2-4 hours as “leave” and the remaining hours billed appropriately to the relevant charge code.
Are you counting the hours you work over 8 on other days of the week to get to the total of 40 for the week? If not, you should. Part of being salaried is the flexibility to do that. If you work 10 hours on Monday and 9 on Tuesday, but you are down with a headache on Wednesday morning, you should be up 3 hours on Wednesday already. If you work 4 hours on Wednesday afternoon (even from home), you are only down 1 hour that day. But if you make up that hour on either Thursday or Friday, you shouldn’t be putting in for any leave at all on Wednesday.
I have a hard time believing it benefits anyone to work 80 hour weeks ever. Even in important jobs (ER doctor comes to mind) you’re so much more likely to make mistakes when over tired.
That is a criticism of the people in charge, not employees who find themselves working those hours.
LW#1, I know you don’t want to hear this, but: you need to find a new job. I have worked at a NFP like that, and your ED sounds like a shit leader and ultimately all the great work you do will always be tinged by her shit leadership.
No one works at a non-profit for money, they do it because they want to make a difference, because they want their work to have meaning, because they feel compelled by the kindness inside of their hearts to make sure other people’s lives are made better by their efforts. You are awesome and amazing for being willing to live this life, because it is hard and the hours are long and the frustrations are many.
Your ED sounds like an out of touch white women, who came into the NFP world because she was bored and wanted people at parties to tell her what a good person she is. She doesn’t care about the kindness in your heart, or the struggles you take on so that other’s lives are made better. If she did, she’d work with you to figure out a plan so you can balance work and home. Please, do ask and see if there are accommodations that can be made. But know that the likely answer will be “no,” and ultimately you will be tasked with finding a new job where the leadership isn’t so terrible. It sucks so, so much. I bet the work that the NFP does is amazing and the lives you change give you the strength to deal with all the bullshit. But it is time to take care of yourself, and take your hardworking, caring butt to a place that will actually appreciate it.
I second the “start looking” advice. I worked for the childless version of the Entitled Out of Touch White Woman, who stretched an undemanding job out to fill her empty life (i.e. “working” nights and weekends on projects that could easily be completed during office hours) and expected the same from her employees. I’m much happier working for people who appreciate quality of work, not time squatting in the office.
Anyone who’s paying attention will be able to see that Helena’s the troublemaker, not you, LW2. Unless and until she gets a clue, she’s just going to spend her career alienating every single person in your field one after another. Don’t let yourself get dragged in.
Hooooly crap LW1, that makes me grateful that I work in a downtown law firm. Don’t get me wrong, I have to work a lot and it’s tough, but if I work, I get credit for it, and nobody ever asks me where the fuck I am. And by “credit” I mean, I know exactly how much I bill a year, in dollars, and so do they, and that’s what counts.
I’m willing to bet this will be an unpopular opinion, but could the ED from LW1 be trying to maintain office morale with other employees? Having been first the childless colleague and then team leader myself, it can be frustrating to have partners in a project frequently absent, even when you know they are making the choices that they need to for their families. It’s a leader’s role to make sure an entire team works well together, which isn’t always easy when those with children are seen to be treated differently than those without. I’m not defending the ED’s decision, and working 80 hour weeks is certainly deserving of comp time, but there may be more to the office dynamic than one employee’s time spent in the office.
That is potentially not unreasonable, but it does need to be *explained*. If it’s not clear to the LW that the reasoning behind this is that it has to look a certain way to other colleagues (or there is specific work that needs to be done which means it’s not possible for LW to take time off without someone else covering it), that’s still the manager’s failure.
Ha, yes, that was me. I hadn't seen this Business Lady post until now. I wrote this to her about two months ago, before things truly went to hell.
LW #1, if you are a non-exempt employee, then you actually need to be compensated for the time you work over 40 hrs per week. This can be done retroactively, especially if the non-profit doesn’t want to be at risk of losing their status or being open to a lawsuit. Please make sure to read your local employment laws carefully about the status of salaried employees and read your non-profit’s employee manual to see if it says anything (and what it says still could be incorrect/not compliant with relevant law). I had to deal with this issue at a former workplace and it was such a pain!
Perhaps LWI might point out to her boss that it would cost LW1 about the same to stay home with no pay as to hire a babysitter on short notice (for a sick child at that) and come into the office., but staying home would mean LW1 would be less stressed. Especially since daycare gets paid whether the kid is there or not, in my experience.
BTW, she should have an argument ready when the boss mentions having hubby stay home for a change.
Also, LW1 mentions ‘several’ children. At some point nannies do become cheaper than daycare. When I had a small child, it was the second that made nanny/daycare equal in cost and the third child made a nanny cheaper.