I leave Cornell this morning! I met SO many wonderful, wonderful Toasties and Cornell students and writers and it’s really been a lovely trip. This is a picture of me in bed with Mallory and Rachel Fershleiser, watching Crimson Peak and eating fried pickles in the middle of the day. This is a short roundup because my cab to the airport comes at 5am which is 3am in Utah time so I want to go to sleep.
Bill Clinton fucked up:
“I don’t know how you would characterize the gang leaders who got 13-year-old kids hopped up on crack and sent them out onto the street to murder other African-American children,” Clinton said, addressing a protester who appeared to interrupt him repeatedly. “Maybe you thought they were good citizens …. You are defending the people who kill the lives you say matter. Tell the truth. You are defending the people who cause young people to go out and take guns.”
Remember the letter-writer whose sister managed someone who kept having inappropriate emotional responses like “I should not have to tell you what’s wrong if you don’t know” and who was sending her abusive text messages like “I think I need to know if you get the depth of how betrayed I feel” and “I am so hurt that I want to destroy you”?
Here’s the update.
Jaya reports from Kelly Rowland Dance Class:
When I think of my own fitness abilities, the word that comes to mind is “competent.” I can’t run a mile, and I don’t own a single stitch of Lululemon, but I can do pushups. The same goes for my dancing skills. I dropped out of ballet when I was six, but I did high school theater, and have spent at least 10 hours trying to learn the dance to “Single Ladies” (which Mr. Gatson choreographed). I have no problem dropping into the occasional dance fitness class, but this was different. The point was not fitness, but actual dance, where remembering to point your toes and consider your lines and sell it actually mattered.
buying a big bowl to put lemons in
The science and mythology of the Santa Ana winds:
Can we blame the winds? Raymond Chandler isn’t the only one who holds the Santa Anas responsible for bad behavior—they’re said to cause migraines, irritability, even suicides and murders.
In the 19th century, the winds were thought to be cleansing—an 1886 report from the California State Board of Health called them “health-giving” and informed Californians that, after a bout of Santa Ana, “the atmosphere becomes wonderfully clear, pure, and invigorating.”
After my mother died in 2011, paying out the final $80K of her estate to me and three siblings (as explained by my brother, the executor) was delayed in case there were late bills and/or taxes that needed to be paid. No problem—made sense. Now, though, the executor-brother, after writing in October to say the money was ready to be disbursed, has only sent a payment to one sibling (who had frequently asked him about it). I’ve had no previous reason to distrust him, but when I asked a month ago, he claimed he’d been working dawn to dusk six days a week (he’s self-employed) and had been unable to get to the post office.
He’s also ignored a respectful email from the other unpaid sibling, who, like me, is beginning to smell a rat; we know the executor-brother has tastes that may exceed his income. Frankly, I’m not happy about the idea of politely forgoing $20K of my inheritance. And while it’s not my place to worry if my executor-brother is being financially irresponsible, I am concerned about how all this affects my dear sister-in-law, who I am certain knows nothing about what’s going down. How should I proceed?
Talkin’ to Trey from Broad City:
What are some ways your character has evolved that have surprised you?
A lot of people know a Trey. He’s this relentlessly enthusiastic, upbeat trainer and, you know, if you go to a gym, if you go to an Equinox or something, that person exists. And like I said, he’s a well-intentioned, good guy, but he’s sort of been a vehicle for jokes, and it’s really exciting to go deeper with him. It’s been really cool actually. A lot of shows will have a character fill an archetype and stick to that, and one of the things I’ve been really excited about, that Broad City’s been able to do, has been to take someone who’s been a source for jokes, and a source of angst for Abbi, and made him into someone who the audience sympathizes with and actually likes.
A thing about the Santa Ana’s that I think is interesting is that I a lot of times get terrible sort of proto-migraine headaches when there’s a sudden change (particularly a sudden drop) in air pressure. (Like for example the last week has been a nightmare, as Philadelphia has alternated between cold high-pressure systems and warm, stormy low pressure systems bleeegggh).
Ions maybe don’t do anything.
This has been my opinion about weather and headaches.
I get the same thing! When there’s a drop in pressure just before a big storm I get a blinding headache. People often look at me crazy when I say I have a headache, there must be a storm coming.
Yeah once I realized that’s what it was (and it took me a long time to make the connection) it’s as good as a barometer. Wake up in the morning with a feeling like a screwdriver stabbing right over my eye? Must be a storm a-brewin’.
Oh that explains why this week has been utter misery (I’m in Baltimore, so we have similar weather).
Mee tooo! I’ve gotten terrible headaches before storms ever since I was a kid. I’m a big skeptic about most things and have no idea why, but it’s nearly like clockwork.
Actually, that’s one of the reasons I loved living in LA: fewer headaches.
I did once ask my doctor about this who seemed to agree that it was a real thing; anecdotally, I’ve met a lot of people who say the same; I got no idea why either though I do know that a lot of other migraine triggers also affect blood pressure regulation, so who knows, this seems plausible.
My doctor told me that there’s some research indicating that people who get migraines triggered by weather, like me, have a variance in the size of their sinuses (one bigger than the other) that means the pressure in your head can’t equalize itself. I have since changed doctors for geographic reasons but really want to look further into this as my migraine medication is horribly expensive aND some kind of surgical relief would be life changing given how frequently we have storms where I live.
yeah I have been discreetly using the oxycodone leftover from my kidney surgery and sometimes taking days off of work; it’s not been too bad for me — I have a friend with the same problem who has it much, much worse — but it’s enough that if I can feel it going off, I’m basically useless for the rest of the day
You might look into the drug they have me on, Relpax. I can’t have Topomax due to a medication interaction, and Relpax is designed so you take it when you feel the headache coming on and it doesn’t develop into a migraine. Expensive, but worth it.
If you’re open to a daily prophylactic med and it doesn’t interact, I cannot rec propranolol/other beta blockers enough. Miraculous. Topamax was terrible for me.
Yes, I live in LA because I have fewer storm headaches and I’m allergic to less stuff here than anywhere else I’ve ever lived.
The thing about Santa Anas being cleansing–well, yeah, after they’re over, it’s generally lovely because so much crap has been swept out of the air. It’s while they’re happening that people start eyeing the ice pick, as Chandler put it.
That makes sense to me. My sister has non-allergic rhinitis, which means she doesn’t have allergies but gets allergy symptoms because various things in the environmental irritate her sinuses. There are the obvious things like dust, chemicals, things you’d expect to cause that, but also change in the weather. Drops in barometric pressure is something that gets her every time. It makes sense to me that it would also cause headaches.
Yeeeeeeeeeeep. I get ’em, too. Worst.
I get headaches on rainy days a lot, but not before a storm. It’s definitely due to the change in pressure. Not sure why it happens during and not before, but it’s irritating all the same.
I get horrible headaches (mostly sinus) when it’s misting or raining lightly, but if it’s a full-on rainstorm, I’m fine. Unfortunately, VA gets light rain and mist more often than it gets real storms.
uuuugh Philly weather has been killing me, I’ve been wearing a knee brace or support all week because of the stupid pressure changes and my stupid knee problems.
My ankle problems are exacerbated by weather changes; the last month has been TORTURE.
barometric pressure headaches are totally a known thing! here’s some info from WebMD, which I consider to be pretty reliable:
“As noted earlier, there is a theory that headaches triggered by extreme weather are a protective, or defensive, response because they lead the person to seek a more hospitable environment.
Experts believe that people who get frequent headaches have a greater sensitivity to changes in the environment. They also have a lower threshold to the pain response. The reason, they suspect, is that people who get migraines have likely inherited this sensitivity.
The survey cited earlier also found that two out of three headache sufferers had not discussed environmental triggers with their doctors. Nearly half of them, though, had been plagued by headaches for more than 20 years.”
hahaha yeah I had never talked to my doctor about it for years and year, but then I watched House, and resolved not to be like these dummies that go to the doctor for a deadly illness and then forget to mention that they got bit by a snake or have had searing pain in their livers for a month, and so now I make a list.
It’s weird because usually you get the headache and it lasts for a day or two and then it goes away, so when it comes time to go to the doctor you don’t think of it, which makes me wonder how many other chronic problems doctors just don’t know about because it never occurs to anyone to mention.
I read a bunch of migraine research for a college project, and I remember there was some pretty compelling evidence on the “sensitive to environment” front that people who suffer from migraines are often light sleepers who wake much more easily during sleep studies.
Interesting – I am quite a heavy sleeper, however I have a bitch of a time getting to sleep at night. And I tend to wake up in the morning with an overall feeling of dread from bad dreams.
Oh that’s really interesting because I do tend to be a really light sleeper as are everyone in my family who also gets migraines
see I don’t get headaches, I just get Too Much Hair. Like “this anti-frizz shit is doing NOTHING, must be about to rain”
I don’t recommend talking about that to your doctor, though.
you say that now but 100% there is a House episode where someone almost died because they didn’t report that their hair gets unusually frizzy in bad weather and so the team thought it was Lupus for forty minutes.
“It’s never lupus.”
I call mine the “hair-o-bair-o-meter”. Measurable in the number of inches wider than normal my hair is.
No that’s totally a thing I get too, really bad migraines at a drop in air pressure, always have. I almost always know when there’s going to be a big storm because I feel like my head’s been run over by a truck.
omg billllll stahhhhp. NOT FLEEK.
(phrasing my constructive feedback for Hillary’s campaign in awkward Millennialese, so they’ll understand it)
Can he just stop talking? Like forever?
Ugh please. Is it taking misandry too far to say he needs to focus on looking pretty and smiling for the cameras? Your role now, Bill, is HILLARY’S ARM CANDY.
No, no, because you’re still willing to let him be on camera. I’m feeling like maybe he should just vanish into an office and not show his face until after HRC’s presidency is over.
I’m feeling magnanimous. He may smile and wave from a balcony once a year.
They can bring him out to play the saxophone for us during times of low national morale and then shuffle him off the stage before he can express any opinions.
Hey, if Hillary had to do that whole mini-pageant with the baking of cookies and whatnot back in the day, then Bubba can stick to his million-dollar grin and a nicely curated sheet of talking points.
I have the recipe for those cookies. They are fab. Bill, this is what you should aspire to.
Not at all. Especially since there is a convincing argument that Bill may be unconsciously undermining his wife in his haste to defend his own record. He made similarly terrible comments when he was campaigning for her in 2007/8. But he became very effective right after Hills conceded (remember his excellent speech for Obama at the convention?)
What’s pissing me off is that various (male) columnists and bloggers I read have been blaming Bill’s crappy behavior on Hillary. Even the more sympathetic ones are saying she needs to put a tighter leash on her husband. While I’m all for leashing men, I suspect the reality of marriage to a high-powered male ex-pres makes doing that incredibly difficult.
And even if she did manage to put a lid on him, people would go back to citing lazy tropes about him being ‘whipped’ or henpecked. It must be maddening for her.
I like to think there’s a misogyny event horizon outside of which everyday sexism has no emotional effect on you. I would imagine Hillary Clinton crossed that line, if it exists, decades ago.
“While I’m all for leashing men”
finally, a banner we can all rally around!
While I’m all for leashing men
LEASH MEN
(button version)
(also maybe bumper stickers?)
He can charm rich white men. I will allow him to talk to other rich white men, but that’s it.
I’m thinking Tarantino needs to remake Kill Bill to fit this situation.
Re: the How to Make People Think You Have Your Shit Together list, I’ve got #15 DOWN. And I also always clean the bathroom just before people get here because I’m embarrassed of how I live. So I’m on my way!
YES
Also #12. Though probably I give the game away by telling people my wine-buying technique is to look through the bargain bin: “this one is half the price it used to be, it must be good!”
I give my wine-buying game away by informing all guests that my favorite neighborhood wine store has a section in the back labelled CHEAP AND TASTY.
I have never bought a bottle from that section that failed to qualify!
I am jealous of that section and I want it in my wine store/home.
It is the best wine store! No one in there has ever said a single douchey thing about wine in my presence. If I want a recommendation, I tell them how much I want to spend, what I’m serving with the wine and/or what kind of general vibe I am going for, and they describe their recommendations to me in totally accessible language that conveys their genuine excitement without making a) them sound like a douchey oenophile or b) me feel like an ignorant schmoe. A rare find! I am never leaving this neighborhood basically.
I have this place in my neighborhood! Even better because it’s a really big store, so they have some super high-end stuff because there are nearby people who can afford it, and I can still go in and say I’m having people over for dinner, making X dish, and don’t want to spend more than $12 per bottle, and every time their recommendation is great. Plus once when I was buying gin, they said they had mini-bottles (airplane size) on super sale of a much higher-end gin for less total than the big bottle. Which is how I got ten airplane bottles of gin in my home-bar 🙂
There’s a board game store in my neighborhood that follows a similar model–I can go in and say I need a game for an 8 yr old boy who is great at math, not so much at reading, and likes fantasy. Boom, they get it right every time.
A lot of my wine-liking friends are really good at this. It helps that I cultivate relationships with the sort of people who think that paying over $12 for a bottle of wine is stupid, except on extremely special “just got my doctorate and/or married” occasions.
HALF PRICE
Sorry, I’m over here in Ontario weeping about provincially controlled booze where nothing is ever more than $2 off.
My wine-buying strategy is to go to TJs or my local food co-op and pick things that are under $10 with a pretty label. Bam!
They look cool in the wine racks that came with our kitchen and they taste perfectly fine. I’ll spend my brain power picking out really good beer, since I understand that, and it will still be under $15 for 4-6 servings.
I have finally gotten better about cleaning my bathroom every week so that it never gets that gross (I’ve been living outside of my parents’ house for a mere fifteen years), but I still do this. Does anyone want to come over and see weird hair in my bathtub? Sadly, my apartment’s cheapo toilet seat, like, disintegrating beneath me and it turns out that off-white tile looks dirty no matter how many times I clean it. Basically, I’m just complaining about my shitty apartment.
Other people’s grossness is always worse than your grossness anyway. My bathroom being an acceptable standard of filth for me is still going to be gross for other people.
If you felt like it, you could replace the toilet seat for maybe $8 an 15 minutes worth of mild effort.
Yeah, I’ve been fighting the management company about it, but I should probably just give in and doing myself. But the principle!
Yeah, I hear you. But some things are just not worth fighting for, you know? Especially when you could make your life better very easily and cheaply!
Or you could go for something fancier!
You’re totally right. I’m hoping to move soon, so maybe I’ll just take it with me when I leave (and put the old one back on).
Yep, erased my suggestion when I saw you’d made this one!
I bought a new toilet seat and showerhead immediately upon moving into my apartment, because you couldn’t raise the lid on the original seat without the seat coming up too, and the water pressure in the shower was dismal. Both were worth every cent, especially since I’ve now been here for 4 years.
Though my guy friends give me a hard time about the toilet seat because apparently I managed to get the opposite of the original – the lid will stay open, but the seat will not stay up when you raise it, so guys have to hold it up with one hand while peeing. I find this hilarious and have not fixed it.
It’s a feature! Makes sure they stay leaning over just a little, and don’t pee on your floor quite as much.
And no one will ever leave the seat up!
Mild Effort is a perfect description of the type of DIY I’m suited for. (remind me again why I own property in that case?)
I tried to replace a toilet seat once and after half an hour of swearing I still hadn’t got the old broken one off.
I am not handy.
I bought two new toilet seats last month. First one went on pretty easily, and I was feeling mighty proud of myself. Removed the old seat on the second toilet, and pulled the next new seat out of its box to install. Then as I held it in my hands, I saw a pube. Then I looked further in horror, and saw pee stains.
SOMEONE RETURNED A USED TOILET SEAT TO THE HOME DEPOT. Animals!! So much hand-scrubbing after. So much.
I was once shopping for a bathroom bin and found that people had just treated the bins for sale as actual rubbish bins (“what should I do with this used tissue? I know, throw it into that bin on a shelf with a price tag on it”), but your story is much worse.
Wait, I did that, but I think I did it wrong? I bought a cheap ass (pun not intended) plastic toilet seat because I don’t intend to take it with me when I move, and now the screws in the back keep coming loose and I burnt a dent in the top when I rested my curling iron there (I also have zero counter space in my bathroom)
We had some old friends over for dinner last week — we’re all in our late 40s — and our bathroom is in the middle of a renovation so there’s only a (modern European wall hung) toilet in there but I was SO GLAD I had made the effort to clean it as one of the guests got so super drunk on a combination of fuzzy navels, red wine, and Fireball that she was in there for over an hour vomiting and we thought at one point she was going to spend the night on the bathroom floor. She felt a lot better the next morning and complimented me on how clean the toilet was. In my defense, I was not in charge of the drinks menu.
The only time I’ve ever barfed at a dinner party, I do remember taking note of how delightfully clean the toilet was first. It may be the only reason I ever clean my toilet, really…
I have so much stuff in jars. Including some polenta that I used, like, twice. Also: someone who I pay to come over and clean the house. That helps.
I have polenta in a jar too. It’s probably been in there for…a couple of years.
I finally snapped and chucked out all of my flatmate’s hoarded jars a couple weeks ago (they’ve been empty and cluttering the cupboard for a year! She was never going to use them!)… and then last week I went hunting for something to make salad dressing with, and realised, and thought ‘well, you’re brought this upon yourself, haven’t you.’
Salad dressing got made in a sheepish tupperware container.
We keep two old dijon mustard jars expressly for the purpose of making salad dressing! THEY ARE PERFECT and I am strangely attached to them. Once we had friends over for dinner and they were helping us clean up afterwards, and I happened to notice that one of my friends was about to dump one of the favored jars in the recycling. I sort of leaped across the kitchen in slow motion, yelling “nooooooooooo” a la Darth Vader Episode III, and just barely managed to rescue it.
I have the old Dijon jars too! But I totally use sheepish Tupperware for my dressings as well.
Keeping a couple of specific jars makes sense! I probably should have thought of that! My flatmate was very smug about it and we are now increasing our jam intake until we have a decent jar count again.
Same. I used to get embarrassed that my mom saved all that stuff, because I thought it was because we were poor, and now as am an adult I realize: no, it’s because that shit is fucking USEFUL.
I now make jam purchases based on what jars are a) cute and b) don’t have logos on them.
oh snap, polenta is probably that vaguely yellow stuff in a jar that I can’t remember what it is.
unless… it’s cornmeal?
Same thing, I think? Maybe just different grain size.
I end up with stuff in jar, mostly because I hit the bulk bins. However, looking at the photo I am dorkily thinking, “Wait! I could put in a cute shelf in the kitchen, but the bulk jars on the shelf for display/storage, and open up a bunch of cupboard space!”
I keep lots of stuff in jars, though they are mostly in the cupboard, not out on display. I also snip rosemary from the giant bush on the corner and keep it in a shot glass on the counter.
I too am the master of #15.
I also took #11 a step further and use only cloth napkins. But that’s because I’m a fucking hippie who doesn’t use any disposable wipes at all except for toilet paper.
Is it a level up on #15 if I further overwhelm my guests by offering to make them a blend?
I level up on #2 by buying a water carafe to be filled with water plus lemon slices, ginger, mint sprigs and/or basil leaves when multiple guests swing by.
Completely fail at #4 because I store my DOG’s toothbrush in the bathroom as a reminder to to brush her teeth more than once a week.
#12 levelled up and beyond by keeping a bar cabinet fully stocked with all kinds of booze for guests even though I rarely drink booze myself.
Essentially, Live Alone And Like It is my bible: http://www.amazon.com/Live-Alone-Like-It-Classic/…
THIS. I grew up using cloth napkins and have never bought paper napkins in my life. I even bring cloth napkins on picnics. I do have a roll of paper towels though, for things like draining bacon, but one roll lasts me for years.
#6 pillows with meaningless words on them
What is with the meaningless words? Especially on walls. I’ll check out real estate listings and there’s so much of this. Maybe it’s just for staging? One had a word on every step going up the stairs. But the bestworst was a big, fat HUMBLE in the dining area.
Those words/phrases as home decor usually crack me up, but I think I would have DIED if I’d seen humble as one of them in our house hunting.
I saw a couch once that was covered in cod-Latin phrases that literally didn’t mean anything.
The only way having the word HUMBLE on your wall is acceptable is if it’s directly over the toilet.
I once hung this poster: http://boingboing.net/filesroot/bathroom%20bolshe… over the toilet in an apartment and one day my guy roommate and a couple of other guys I knew confessed that every time they used that bathroom it totally weirded them out to make eye contact with it while they were peeing. Possibly my best bit of interior design ever.
Oh my god you are my new interior design inspiration
… I literally just hung a framed version of this pic next to the toilet last week.
*fist bump*
Heeee! That is grade A awesome!
If the letters were separate, you could take bets on how long it would take for someone to take down the H, L, and E, and rearrange the rest to read BUM.
I just put the bagels and tortillas and bananas on a tray this morning, in preparation for having guests tonight, now I am a fancy person, instead of a slob with food all over the counter!
SO fancy!
I don’t have my shit together at all but I do make delicious cakes. It’s a trade-off I’m willing to make.
Me too! Or I did before having a baby. I’ve managed to make a few batches of delicious cookies, at least, since she was born.
I have killed so many jade plants though. Lies upon lies, they are not immortal.
I thought I was the only one able to kill jade plants! Solidarity.
Other plants I can keep alive, but jade plants all hate me I think.
Yep. Former coworker left me her beloved jade plant that she had kept alive forever when she moved across the Atlantic ocean. I don’t have the heart to tell her I managed to kill the poor thing.
Oh, no no no no. I’m in the process of killing one literally as we speak. It’s incredibly easy to kill a jade plant if you are so minded. You don’t even have to do anything- just look past it for a couple of months, feel guilty every now and again. I’m quite accomplished at it.
What is it with nursing home Jesuses, anyway?
melty and glowing and white, just as Jesus is described in the Gospels
Jesus is a child’s vanilla ice cream on a summer day? Lost and melting and full of grit when you need him most?
YES perfect. Also like ice cream, Jesus is better with chocolate.
My NP works in an office that is. . .excessively Christianist. Like, multiple crosses on multiple walls, Christian music playing on the overhead, and (I kid you not) a picture in one exam room of GW Bush with Lincoln on one side and Washington on the other, their hands on his shoulders, all heads bowed in prayer.
The other rooms have what I call Creeper Jesus pictures: Jesus leaning over a doctor, Jesus taking a pulse. Thankfully there is no Jesus Holding A Speculum in the room for well-woman exams.
The atmosphere doesn’t seem to affect the way they handle care, and I love my practitioner, so I keep going. . . but the Medical Office Jesuses freak me the fuck out.
Oh my Gaaaaaaawd, I grew up in the South but even that is OVER THE TOP for me. I would have lost it at the one of Bush with Lincoln and Washington.
“Quit practicing medicine without a license, Jesus! Somebody’s gonna sue your ass”.
My previous gynecologist had pictures of Hindu gods all over the walls of her office, which was actually pretty awesome. (She was Hindu, it wasn’t a weird cultural appropriation thing, and we live in a small city in the Midwest, where it was definitely unusual.)
That’s a profession where multiple arms could really come in handy.
Apologies for going off-topic so quickly, but can anyone offer advice or reassurance about taking the pill for the first time? I’ve recently started taking oral contraceptive (for period pains on the advice of my doc, rather than birth control – I’m in a relationship with another lady) and it’s not going well so far.
I’ve been on a SSRI for about a year for anxiety which was working really well, but since going on the pill I’ve been having trouble again. I’m having both mental (low mood, anxiety) and physical (womb hurting, stomach cramps, IBS flare up) side-effects. I don’t know if it’s worth it stopping to take the pill and resuming my usual ‘debilitating pain’ once a month routine. I’m also feeling stupid for being gay and wanting to go on the pill anyway when it clearly isn’t working for my body. Sigh.
Ugh, what a sucky situation. How many months have you been on the pill? First or second month, it might be your body adjusting. But if you’ve been dealing with it for four months or more, your body might be trying to tell you the synthetic hormones aren’t for you. Poor thing. I hope you find a good solution soon.
There are so many different birth control pills, and they will all affect you differently! If these aren’t working for you, please tell your doctor, so you can try something else! Seriously, I tried about 5 different kinds of pill before I got my IUD, and most of them were fine, except the one that gave me terrible nausea every morning. Other friends had to try a couple different pills before they found one that didn’t make them feel bad. There are options to explore, it’s not just a Y/N thing. Good luck!
The first pill I went on turned me into a hormonal, hair-trigger, monster (Ovranette), and then I changed to Yaz and life has been a lot less volatile since. Different brands of pill have different mixes/amounts of hormones, so you need to talk to your doctor and consider changing brands.
A lot of women try The Pill (whatever one their doctor prescribes) and don’t like it and just stop taking it thinking it doesn’t work for them, when in fact there are literally 100s of options out there and you have to find the one that works for you.
If the symptoms are bad enough that your considering coming off the pill, go back to your doctor and discuss your options. They will likely say that it takes 3-6 months for your body adjust and you should wait it out, but its up to you, if you want to change then demand a change.
(No same in taking birth control for any reason! I haven’t been in a relationship in years and I stay on it because my periods are waaay better)
I’d give it a few months – my first months on it were miserable (as were the first few months after switching to a different one), but in my case things settled, later.
You could also (but YMMV), after a while, try doing a stopping week only every two or three strips instead of every time. That’s helped stabilize my moods, plus it means I only have to get my period 5 times a year.
/notadoctor
Yessss to running packets together. I’ve done the reading and I’m perfectly happy doing it and it makes life so much better. Although now I have a serious aversion to having periods, and I’m rather annoyed when I have one because it feels like mother nature smacking me back into place.
I have run packs together a few times, but the last time I did it I started bleeding halfway through the second one (and then had another period/withdrawal bleed at the end of that pack, only a few days after the last lot of bleeding had stopped). Apparently my body has got used to the 21-days-on 7-days-off cycle. I’m now wary about trying it again.
Through a bit of trial and error I have found that 3 months is the most I can go without taking a break/having a period. When I first started I think I went to about 4 or 5 months (well packets, it might not have actually be that many months) and then I started spotting constantly and had a minor freak out and eventually realised what it was.
At the moment I’ve started just taking shorter breaks, 2-3 days, at the end of a packet; depends how I’m feelings, sometimes I just forget to start the new packet. And I’m a bit out of whack with routine at the moment, so I can’t really remember what I’ve been doing in the last few months, this month I appear to be having two periods despite having a 2 day break. Who knows whats going on. Thankfully I’m not in a relationship so the contraceptive aspect of it is null, cause I would almost definitely be pregnant at this point.
What really got me into it was learning that the ‘period’ you have isn’t actually a period at all since it only happens because your body is adjusting to not having the pill in your system because you’ve stopped taking it, and the 21 days on 7 days off system was only implemented because the men who designed the pill thought women would be uncomfortable not having periods. This may be incorrect, but it helps me justify it. If I do take a break the period usually doesn’t for a few days anyway and I’ve usually started back on the pills then.
Occasionally I worry that there hasn’t really been long term studies on the effects of the pill and fertility afterwards and I’m fucking up my body completely, but for now its working and I’m happy.
Yeah, I know the withdrawal bleeds aren’t real periods, so I’m not worried about causing any harm to my body by running packs together; the two main reasons I am on the pill are contraception and regular periods, though, and not sticking to a strict routine could screw up both of those (having breakthrough bleeding when I ran two packs together was infuriating).
When I was taking them, I just eliminated all of the placebo weeks for no periods whatsoever. Worked out very well for me, with zero side effects to speak of.
I’ve never heard that there’s any downside to doing this, or any medical reason that you actually need to have occasional periods. I read that the inventors of the pill just threw that extra week in there as a (failed) attempt to placate the Catholic church back in the ’60s, so it would seem more “natural”.
Just piping in to affirm that not all hormones are created equal, and not all doses are the same. For instance, I have a Nexplanon implant, which only gives a low dose of progesterone. It’s taken it a few months to fully take effect, partly because I have a stupid uterine polyp causing weird bleedy stuff, but it’s been far more tolerable for me than oral BCP ever was. I had the same “took a few months then it was great!” with my Mirena IUD too.
So if this first thing you’re trying is making you feel bleh and it isn’t improving, you have options beyond suffering. You have lots of options.
I also went on the pill last year for period reasons rather than contraceptive reasons. It was mostly fine for me (and one of the reasons I’d avoided hormonal birth control for so long is because I was worried what it would do to my moods etc.) but it does take some time to settle down. I was on Microgynon for three months, and then switched to Yasmin* and for the first month or two that I was on Yasmin, I got VIOLENT mood swings. It was scary, because it took a while for me to work out that it was the pill. For probably the first six to eight months I was on the pill, I considered coming off it (though I wasn’t getting the mood swings for that long), but now I’m happy I’m on it. I’d rather not have a seven day heavy period.
So basically, it’s up to you and what you feel is right for your body, but I found the doctors to be annoyingly right on this one – it takes longer than you’d like for your body to get used to it, but if it does then it’s worth it. Also, nothing wrong with being gay and on the pill – tbh most people I know who are on the pill seem to have started it for period reasons rather than contraceptive reasons.
*I’m aware about the risk of blood clots for this before anyone starts on about it
Those do sound like stressful side effects. I am using the Nuvaring for the same reason you’re using the oral contraceptive and it is working well. I found the pill really tough to be on because of the constant emotional roller coaster I was on while taking it. Personally I have a much easier time with the lower amount of hormones since they act locally vs. universally. Might be worth a chat with your doc if you haven’t already. (disclaimer: some women haaaate the Nuvaring. Your mileage may vary.)
And lots of people (including me!) use hormonal contraception for reasons other than birth control. No need to feel stupid. 🙂
I hope you feel better soon.
It is rough going on it for the first time, especially as I started on it when I was 24 and so, you know, had a chunk of time knowing how my body functioned as an adult without it. I was on one for about 6 months before switching to a lower dose (for headaches that I thought were related but turns out they aren’t). So in the past two years I’ve started two new pills.
Anyway, what I’m trying to say is, it really does take two-three months for your body to get used to it and for side effects to sort of even out. Having said that, you shouldn’t be miserable with side effects after a couple months (and it definitely doesn’t have to be constantly miserable with side effects in the first couple months). My doctor was wonderful and helpful when I asked about what other pill options there are – she literally had a little list of the different options and what the possible side effects are for each, and recommended another one that has been working out great.
My bullet point on this is: normal to feel weird side effects starting the pill for the first time, and there isn’t just one The Pill, so totally possible to find another one to help with the period pains without miserable side effects.
Another voice to say definitely shop around with the pill! They vary a LOT. It also might be worth looking at other forms of hormonal contraception – I used to have the Mirena coil which was great from a light period POV (eventually no period, though it took a long time to settle down).
Also – being a uterus-having person who is taking hormones for reasons other than birth control can actually be really handy! Some pills have downsides from a contraceptive POV (like having high failure rates if you miss a dose or take them at the wrong time) which are less of an issue if you’re taking them for other reasons. So extra shopping-around power!
Also, haha, just got curious about whether the progesterone only pill (which is what I was thinking of re ‘not top for contraception if you are absent-minded’) actually gives lighter periods, and the NHS website lists light/no periods as one of the DISadvantages. All a matter of perspective, I guess?
fyi I found it gave me light acne, and I’ve always had completely clear skin.
Interesting! Not sure if you were referring to the PIP or Mirena, but I always suspected Mirena gave me acne (which is why I went off it) but no medical professional would believe that it was the cause. (It was a little difficult to be definitive about it since I’d been on the combined pill for a long time before, which may have simply staved off acne.)
The mini pill (as I know it). Pills are associated with acne much more than IUDs, but I don’t see why any hormonal change couldn’t give you acne. Not that I know more about this than a doctor, but hey, whatever works for you. As far as I know, any progesterone only product is more likely to have that kind of effect because there’s not anything else balancing it out. Though that might just be me making up something that sounds about right.
My skin totally cleared up when I switched from Mirena to Paragard (which I did because I have intracranial hypertension and there’s a link between that and levonorgestrel), but Paragard is definitely not a good option for reducing heavy periods. (I miss my barely-extant Mirena periods.)
Did you see this from the NYT? A nice little history about why menstrual products suck: Men hold most of the patents for them, and don’t bother to ask women about periods first. And when a woman wanted to make a high-tech tampon, all the men who hold the investment money were like “eww, yucky! who cares?”
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/03/opinion/sunday/…
That is a really interesting piece! Stupid dudebro investors. ‘Uggh only HALF THE POPULATION will want this, whats the point?’
Seriously though, home testing for STD/Fertility/Endometriosis with a tampon would be AMAZING.
yeah, “you may experience less profuse bleeding from your vagina” is defo a HUGE downside for me
I find the “periods” (not real periods, I know) on the combined pill a handy signal that I’m probably not pregnant. (I asked my GP if, as they weren’t real periods, missing one could be a sign that I was pregnant or having one could mean that I wasn’t. He was very vague, but I still take comfort in the fact that if large amounts of blood are coming out of me, plus clots and cramping, there is hopefully no pregnancy.)
Like the others have said there are many versions of the pill so if you have problems ask to try a new one. I have bad reactions to progesterone (I either become overly emotional or a robot person without feelings) so I had to try several until I found a good, low-dose option that worked for me. The ring is really great–that was probably my favorite until I lost my good health insurance back in the day, and Loestrin also worked OK for me (well, whatever the generic version of it is). I’m currently off all pills due to attempted procreation, but were I to go back on I’d definitely go for the ring again.
Also, different generics have different inactive ingredients from each other and from the brand name. So one generic of, say, Loestrin might make you have issues while another is fine. I had that problem but let my pharmacist know and he worked hard to make sure they had my preferred generic in stock (he was great–I moved to a new state and I still miss him which is probably a sign that I’m old). Good luck and know that it does usually get better! And man, when you find the right BCP it really makes a world of difference in regards to pain and cramps.
My best friend is gay and takes the pill for her periods. She was actually able to stop taking her SSRI after starting the pill, because a hefty dose of hormones evened out her moods too! So, there can definitely be some interactions there.
Are you taking the BCP with food? Some people need to do that to keep it from interfering with digestion.
I myself was never able to find a pill that worked with my mental state (/wasn’t willing to keep trying different ones forever). I had a Mirena for several years, which resulted in very light periods with almost zero cramping (instead of my usual Niagara of pain) – maybe that could be an option for you!
It took me a few tries to find a pill that I liked. Originally I was on the standard Ortho Tri-Cyclen and assorted generics, which made me very sad a lot of the time. Then I went to the minipill, which worked pretty well but was too much of a source of anxiety because every once in a while it would make my periods late. Now I’m on Falmina which is a generic of… Lutera? And that’s working out really well for me – no mood side effects and light periods. If you let your doctor know that your side effects are bothering you, you should be able to try a different brand. And that’s just pills, there’s also Nuvaring and the implant and all that jazz.
There are like 8 million different formulas of oral contraception out there, so if the one you’re on isn’t working, it is completely reasonable to try a different one. Sometimes it takes a little time for your body to adjust, but sometimes the answer is that you need a different pill.
You are not stupid; trying the pill in an attempt to deal with period pains is a completely reasonable thing to do.
I have been on the same contraceptive pill for about seven years, and it has mostly been fine (I did get diagnosed with depression while taking it, but that was almost certainly going to happen anyway), but it was awkward at first. (For contraceptive purposes you’re meant to start taking it on Day 1 of your period, the day you start bleeding. My period just didn’t show up for three months. I gave up and started taking it on a random day, and when I stopped after 21 days and had my first withdrawal bleed/fake period my uterus apparently had three months’ worth of blood saved up and I had the heaviest period of my life and threw up with the pain. But again, I think that was my body being weird, not the pill.)
My bona fides: I am a birth control professional, I am gay, I have used a lot of hormonal birth control for menstrual problems in the past, I have depression which was occasionally exacerbated by pills.
Stick with your current formulation for 2 months. Return to prescribing provider; request a lower-dose pill.
OR switch to NuvaRing (fewer systemic side-effects including emotional side effects)
OR switch to long-term progestin-only method such as Mirena/Skyla or Nexplanon. Rarely these will exacerbate an existing depression, but I’ve literally only seen this happen twice in my career, and once you remove the offending device your previous status quo returns pretty quickly.
You are really fabulous for sharing your experience with the commentariat here. Just in case you were wondering. <3
Awwwwww thanks! That’s really nice to hear! 🙂
So here’s my experience: I have frequent migraines that I know are linked to my cycle, so I went on birth control (microgestin FE something or other) a few years ago to see if that would help. it did: my migraines went from two or three times a week to once every three weeks or so. I immediately started having panic attacks, though. At first I would have one at the beginning and at the end of the placebo week. Then my general level of anxiety started to rise, gradually, so that it took a few months for me to realize I’d developed an anxiety disorder. I went on the birth control in late spring, and by mid-fall I was a basket case; I was a total hypochondriac, convinced I was about to drop dead from any number of things, and I was having panic attacks all the time. I went to my doctor and explained this, and she didn’t believe me. She said birth control couldn’t cause those symptoms and I must always have been anxious, and going off the pill wouldn’t do any good but she could put me on Zoloft. i opted to go off the pill anyway, and the first month off it was horrible, but after I got my first real period things started to stabilize, and a couple months later I was totally back to normal. It’s been a couple of years now, and things are still normal. And now I have migraines again, which sucks, but I’d rather go through the physical pain of the migraines than have to deal with that particular mental illness again.
Anyway, since this is your field, I wanted to ask you about this experience. Does my version of what happened — I went on birth control, it made me crazy anxious, I went off it and got better — sound plausible to you? i found it really upsetting to be told firmly that birth control couldn’t be causing the mental symptoms I was experiencing because anxiety wasn’t listed as a side effect of that particular pill. (Depression was, though.)
It sounds 100% plausible! Depression can present in many forms, some of which look very much like anxiety. (This is why sometimes anti-depressants can work for anxiety disorders; note that your doctor even wanted to put you on Zoloft!)
If you wanted to try hormonal birth control again, you have a few options:
1. Stick with a low-dose monophasic pill but skip every placebo week. Just go straight from your last active pill to opening a new pack. You might have lighter periods, irregular periods, or (most likely) no periods at all (with rare instances of bleeding).
2. Try NuvaRing, with or without the ring-free week. (I used to use NuvaRing for relief of various symptoms and I would take it out on Day 24 or so and put a new one in immediately.)
3. If economically feasibile for you (and if you’re open to this kind of experimenting), try a progestin IUD (Mirena/Skyla/Lilletta). There’s a chance your anxiety might return, and there’s a chance your migraines would stay the same — but like I say, if you’re open to inserting (and possibly removing) an IUD, it might be an option to consider.
Hope this helps! I love talking about birth control (obv I am very fun at parties).
Thank you so much! That’s really good to hear. It was awful trying to deal with that doctor, because I went in feeling like I had all the evidence I needed – the sudden onset of panic attacks, which I’d never had before, and the fact that they coincided with the start and end of the placebo week – and she just brushed all that aside.
Thank you very much for the recommendations. What worries me about trying hormonal birth control again is how much of my life it could eat up if it didn’t go well. I took months to know for sure the pills were affecting my mental health, and then when I went off them I spent a month practically nonfunctional before my normal cycle reasserted itself. The idea of spending another month waiting to regain my mental health, and not knowing for sure if it will come back, terrifies me. Maybe I’ll give it another try, though, if the migraines get worse.
Consider seeing a doctor about your migraines anyway. There are a TON of other options, from beta blockers (my personal fave), to some supplements, to some classes of epilepsy meds. You don’t have to suffer. The pill works for some people to control their migraines, but it’s only one option. (I’ve done a few of types of migraine prevention meds, I’m here to discuss them.)
Thanks! I’ve been on Imitrex for years now, and I have been meaning to see a neurologist again, because I hate having to take it so often. I tried beta blockers and they did nothing for me, sadly. I’m really afraid of Topamax – both the mental fogginess and the weight loss. I tried Migrelief a long time ago, but I wasn’t super regular about taking it, and also I think it made me need to pee all the time? I can’t really remember. I never got any results from it, but I probably didn’t give it enough of a try.
Anyway, I guess what I’d like to start with is vitamin supplements – maybe Migrelief again, maybe something else – and I’ve been planning to find a neurologist and talk about it with them. (Unfortunately, I’m in Fairbanks, Alaska, where good doctors are fairly thin on the ground, so I’ve been putting off the search.) Is there anything in particular you would recommend?
Boo, beta blockers are so good when they do work. 🙁 I love my propranolol – it might be worth trying another drug in the class if the first one didn’t work for you?
For supplements, I’ve had really solid success with taking extra magnesium. A previous neuro reccomended it to me after I had a failed trial of Topamax (the WORST, do not reccomend – I had terrible brain fog and suicidal ideation the whole time, plus bonus focal seizures at the end of the 6 month trial). A lot of ERs will give magnesium via IV for an intractible migraine, so it made sense to me. I do 500mg 2x daily, but I’ve seen numbers all over the place for what works for different people. A recently published meta study backs me up on this one: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26752497 (there are a LOT of hits if you search pubmed, too).
I’ve also been taking a B complex, as the same neuro indicated riboflavin might be helpful and it’s kind of a pain to find on its own at Target or whatever. The science on that’s a lot less clear, but you’d have to work pretty hard to od on B vitamins, so it might be worth a try for you. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26780280
Thank you! That’s really helpful. Did you start at that dose with the magnesium, or work up to it?
I started there and have been on it for 6 years without a drastic change. (I’ve also tried 400mg 2x when I moved and couldn’t find what I was taking before, no real difference for me.) It will probably mess with your GI tract, so I’d read up a bit about what to expect there (think Milk of Magnesia), but otherwise I’ve had no real side effects. The od level is much, much higher.
I definitely experienced quite a few similar side effects when I first started and most of them subsided after a couple of months. For me, the only thing that persisted was a lot of breakthrough bleeding, so i experimented with quite a few types and I did also find that when I’d change pills, I would get the emotional side effects for the first couple months, but they would fade away. So it may just be that you need to give it time or you need to switch brands. Good luck!
In the past 13 years, I’ve been on a bunch of different pills, and I never had any negative symptoms until this most recent brand*. On most of them, my period dried up completely! It was like magic! Meaning, there are A LOT of different kinds and they are sometimes miraculous, so I wouldn’t say that it’s definitely not working for your body after trying one kind. THAT SAID, fooling around with your body chemistry repeatedly is definitely exhausting, so I understand why you wouldn’t want to spend months wrestling with this.
*Going to the doctor today to fix that, yaaaay
If you have a prescribing doctor for the SSRI that is different from this doctor, make sure you check in with the psych to tell them you are adding in BCP. There may be an interaction (for me it cut the effectiveness of a mood stabilizer IN HALF so I had to go off BC). So make sure you discuss all options with that in mind.
I have more anecdata on different kinds of pills having super different effects on the same person.
When I first went on birth control, it took maybe half a year for my body to adjust to it. It decreased my previously hellish cramps enough to make them bearable, but not completely.
Three years later, when I switched insurances, the birth control I was on wasn’t the default option, so the doctor switched me to another kind. It was a disaster. My cramps were back in full force, I had a full period twice a month, and I would spontaneously cry at emotionally neutral things. My gynecologist would just keep upping my dosage every couple of months, which didn’t help at all.
Finally, I called the gynecologist’s office when she was on vacation and the nurse practitioner agreed to put me back on something that had the same hormones as my original pill. Now, my cramps are almost completely gone and I know exactly which one and a half days of the month I’ll have my newly super light “period” (TMI: sometimes all I need is pantyliners for two days, which is ridiculous). It’s the best.
This is super frustrating and I have BEEN THERE!! I would say firstly, if you aren’t already, ask your doc if you can switch to a low-dose pill, so one with very few hormones (I think the one I was given if I wanted to try again was low-estrin, but I wound up not using it for now). If you’ve been having these issues for several months, I think it’s worth trying something new. Most women I know have to try a few different ones before they get one that works with their body.
On the chance that you want to think about other options (and no pressure/ high horse thing here.. I’ve been on the pill on and off and now am using these other options. It’s def a process, but figuring it out this way makes *me* feel better, and I also have to take meds for other physical/mental health stuff, so I was at the point where I didn’t want to go back on hormonal bc and have my body adjust to it.), I can tell you a bit about what I do if you’re interested 🙂
Acupuncture can help a lot for me if I get it the week or few days before my period starts (esp helps with mood and digestive issues), magnesium (I take Natural Calm with calcium before bed, every night, start with 1/4 tsp and work up to a full one… very slowly over a few weeks) has helped a lot with period pains and cramping, and avoidance of sugar + taking ibuprofin on a full stomach (every morning of the start of my period, not waiting until the pain starts) helped SO much. When I don’t do these things, I definitely feel it.
As well, there is a group of women educating about more natural ways to deal with periods and birth control, they are called The Fifth Vital sign. I can’t say much more than that as I haven’t looked into their whole spiel yet, but I’ve been listening to a lot of podcasts and blogs from women with endo and PCOS, etc and this group was mentioned so it’s been on my list to check out!
Whichever methods you try, I am wishing you the best of luck. It is so frustrating to figure this out, and the only positive I can say is that trying all this with my own body has forced me to really figure out what works for me and what doesn’t. I feel a lot more in tune with what’s going on, and that does make me feel empowered, or at least more in control than I was before <3
I am the executor of my parents estate of the 4 of us kids precisely because I am boring budget loving rule follower of the lot.
I am also watching the OC right now because it just went up on Hulu and this immediately made me think of Jimmy Cooper. Your brother probably spent your money on ponies!!
Treatment for China’s alopecia is expensive!
A girl shouldn’t love a bald pony. Its not right.
I thought I was too good for this show as a teen, but I was wrong.
There is no such thing as too good for the OC. The OC is too good for us.
I have never agreed with any statement more than this one.
Agreed. Have you heard the This American Life segment of Ira Glass talking about his undying love for the OC? That is how I feel.
I’m co-executor for my mother, against all good advice, in a contentious family dynamic. So it’s going to be fun. When my dad died about 4 years ago, all the resentments came bubbling to the surface, and caused irreparable rifts. I’m the only one that even tried to be Switzerland. And even though all 3 of my siblings have said they’re good with me being in the executor role, my mother favours one sister (she’s the one that has the closest relationship with my 80-plus year old mother, and handles a lot of the day-to-day stuff for her), so I think I’m there to kind of rein her in. Like I said, it’s going to be fun.
OMG THE OC IS ON HULU?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!
Okay, sorry, I’ll get it together.
A big ugghh to the Dear Prudence letter writer who wants her stepdaughters to take out student loans or go to other school so that her husband can buy her a new house instead of paying for their college. One of them wants to go to med school! One got into an ivy league college! How selfish of them!
BUT a DOG and a YARD is more important.
On the one hand, I feel for her. It kind of sucks not to be able to spend the money you want on a thing you could theoretically afford because of forces outside your control (and I personally think spending money on an Ivy League undergrad education is silly, especially if your state school is decent).
On the other hand, she knew, or should have known, that this was the deal before they got married. Not your kids, not your choice, sorry. Encouraging them to go to a cheaper school, I can understand, but asking them to take out loans? Nope. Not okay.
I was thinking that too- especially if, as the parent of a 2 year old she’s probably taken some time off work, she’s probably feeling less financially autonomous anyway. Does it change things if they’ve pooled their money so it’s coming out of her savings too?
Of course, those feelings don’t really make a difference at the end of the day, but I can see how that might have been a shock financially even if you knew that college expenses were coming.
In the normal course of events, I don’t think providing your kids with a loan-free college education should be considered a requirement of parenthood. Besides the fact that most families can’t afford to do that, 18 year olds are legal adults and I don’t think it’s unreasonable for them to work or take out loans towards their own education.
I think I took my higher ed experience more seriously because I was partly funding it myself, and my work experience during college and law school was very valuable.
Under normal circumstances, I think it’s perfectly reasonable for parents to offer X amount of support (e.g., the cost of in-state tuition) to their kids, based on what they can afford and what they feel is reasonable. I don’t see anything wrong with saying “If you want to go somewhere more expensive (or to graduate/ professional school), you’ll have to take out loans for that”.
BUT the time for addressing this was before the divorce decree was finalized. If the decree says he has to pay for college (without restrictions on cost, type of school, etc.), then that’s that. And it sounds like he’s on board with that.
From a strictly legal standpoint, unless their agreement specifically says he must pay for ALL higher education at ANY school they choose, then he actually doesn’t have an obligation to pay for all of the schooling at the most expensive schools forever. If all it says is that he’s responsible for paying for their college education, then technically, he could meet his requirements by paying for a bachelor’s at community college and nothing more, although a reasonable interpretation would be somewhere in the middle. I think most judges wouldn’t decide in favor of the girls/their mother if they tried to compel him to pay for Ivy League/med school, under those circumstances.
It’s not unreasonable for concerns over the rest of their lifestyle and the costs of raising another child to be a part of that calculus; families do it all the time. My husband went to an in-state school for undergrad, and paid for his master’s himself at a crappier school where he could afford it. His younger brother went to a fancypants out of state school, because his parents didn’t have to worry about funding another college education. It happens.
But none of this is the issue at hand; the issue is dad wants to pay for it, and his wife disagrees. The divorce agreement is kind of a red herring.
Yeah, Ivies are pretty great about financial aid, so it’s not even like she thinks her husband can’t afford it, it’s just straight up that she doesn’t want him to spend money on them. If they were strapped for cash and she was concerned about him spending all this money maybe I would understand (maybe), but no. She just wants them to go to state schools and not become doctors because their life plans are inconvenient for her.
To be fair, a lot of people don’t realize how good Ivies are about financial aid. They see the hefty baseline price tag and assume it’ll definitely be more expensive, but that isn’t necessarily so. I graduated debt free from an Ivy, my sister has student loan debt from attending a state school.
Plus I had this awful feeling that her child was more important because *boy child*. Who are these icky girls wanting to have promises kept?
I more got the message that this child was more important because it was her child and the other girls aren’t (and are obviously teenagers, so probably past the point of bonding with her on a motherly type level) and obviously her child deserves a big house with a garden.
That could be, yeah. I came from a family where first son got all the things, so I should admit my tendency to see that pattern repeat everywhere.
She reminded my of my own stepmonster. Except my dad gave in and actually wrote my brother and I out of his will and then had the audacity to blame it on my own mother for asking for child support. It was a mess for a while. But then they divorced and everything’s better now.
I thought that was AWFUL. I mean, I get why she feels that way, but how awful. “No, sorry, you have to go to a school that isn’t where you want to go, and you also can’t go to med school, because the child iiiiiiiii had with your father is the new heir and deserves a yard and a puppy and …”
Reminds me of the Modern Family episode when Gloria finds out she’s pregnant and Manny is fine with it until the dipshit Dunphy son is like “welp that’s it for you then, huh.”
So many advice column letters can be boiled down to “here is my elaborate justification for being an asshole, please validate me”.
I always enjoy the ones where the LW is an asshole and doesn’t realise. Seeing them getting gently but firmly taken down is delicious.
Yessss, so satisfying!
Also, if this is her husband’s money (which it sounds like it is) it’s his choice of how he wants to spend it. Even if she wants him to spend it another way.
I’m guessing it’s his money because if they were both paying for it, she probably would have included the fact that it was her money too in the letter. Which would indeed change things! Then she’d be justified in wanting to keep her savings for a house while he spends his on college.
Holy shit, what a fucking asshole. Jesus Christ. “(or the girls could get student loans like the rest of us)” OH YEAH, PUT THEM INTO DEBT FOREVER LIKE THE REST OF US, THAT’S A GREAT PLAN, FUCK YOU.
A very good friend of mine came from a family with plenty of money to put him through medical school; they had put him through our private college debt-free and could have done the same with medical school, but instead, they elected to have him take out loans for med school and invested their money in a business that promptly failed. Now they’ve lost a ton of money, and my friend has ~$200k in debt after having none before med school. It’s not criminal, but it’s a terrible thing to do to your kid. If you can save your children from debt, do so. Do so without hesitation, because debt is the worst, especially bullshit non-dischargeable student loans. Ugh. Jesus. This just makes me so mad.
Oh my god, that’s horrible. I don’t even talk to my mom about my student loans because she’ll start crying about the fact that she and my dad couldn’t afford to pay for all of my undergrad or help me with grad school. She hates so much that we all have this debt hanging over our heads. It helps a little, honestly, knowing that they would have paid for it if they could have.
Also, student loans are very different for this generation than they were for the previous generation! “Student loans like the rest of us” for this woman likely weren’t mortgage-sized and life-crushing like they are today.
I had a very difficult time getting my dad to realize that part of the reason I left law school was because, where he graduated and got a salary in his first year (1980) roughly equivalent to his debt load, I was (almost certainly) going to graduate and get a salary that was somewhere between a third and a fifth of my debt load. Which is exactly what has happened to a bunch of my friends who stuck with law school, and I sorta feel bad for them (I know somebody who, between his private undergrad and private T3 law school ended up with more than $300k in student loan debt), but I also sorta don’t, because the writing’s been on the wall about student loan debt in general and law school debt in particular for quite some time now.
I don’t know, I don’t see why parents should have any obligation to pay for graduate or professional degrees. Starting your kids out with a debt-free bachelor’s degree is quite generous, in my book. I have a shit-ton of loans from law school, so I’m well aware of the effect that student loans can have on people’s personal and financial lives. But I made the choice as an adult to enter that profession.
Unless you’re mega-mega-rich and won’t miss $100-300K, it makes much more financial sense for parents to hold onto that money and use/ invest it for their own retirement, future medical expenses, etc. I see a lot of end-of-life scenarios as a lawyer now, and I can say that being able to support yourself in your later years is a HUGE gift to give your kids.
If you have to pick one or the other, prioritizing retirement makes more sense because there isn’t really financial aid like there is for higher ed. (Beyond Medicaid, which may not cover a lot of what people need or may only cover sub-standard care).
Statistically speaking, most doctors will do pretty well in terms of lifetime earnings and lifestyle, regardless of whether they start out with student debt. (Don’t go to law school, though!!)
I could understand saying “Look, paying for undergrad is one thing, but we have a kid too and we need to pay for him too, anything post-undergrad (med school, law school) isn’t covered/is covered to a max of whatever/is covered in place of wedding money or house down payment”, depending on their actual finances, but that was just mean.
Yeah I totally thought that letter was going to be ‘We don’t have enough money for our own child’ and it’s like, no, they’re doing fine, kid’s got a nice home, but LW just wants a nicer home for her baby. Ugh.
To some people the yard is really important, though. My Mom’s like that, and it is NOT about the money — she just can’t understand why you’d want to raise your kid without one if there’s any way. You can’t always toss your kids outside to a park for an hour (if there is a park). My parents had very little money, but that was a top priority.
I think the devil is in the details here. If the daughter is insisting on Ivy League just for the name and isn’t getting much help from the school, I’d think that was stupid too. And it is fair to say “we’ll pay for undergrad, and we’ll pay up to X for grad, then you’re on your own”. I mean, what if the 16-year-old later decides she also wants to go to medical school? What if she drops out, then wants to go to law school — still on the hook? At what point does the stepmother get to have a say on money that impacts her and her son, too? What resources will be left for the son? Did the girls grow up in a house with a yard? The specifics of what they have, where they live, and how focused the girls are can make a HUGE difference to the conversation.
I’ll give the LW slack because she starts the letter talking about how great the girls are. Most of these letters start with a long list of grievances that have nothing to do with the situation. But yeah, they should have had financial counseling before they married. Why do people not think before they get married?
I felt pretty sympathetic to her right up until the final line about ‘how do I convince him’? I think it’s pretty human to feel a bit bummed in that situation, and I can see how you might enter into that situation (marrying someone with older kids) without fully comprehending how much that commitment would affect your life until you had a kid of your own. But I was expecting the question to Prudie to be ‘How do I negotiate having these feels?’ (Though I should know from reading the Bad Advisor how many people write into advice columns looking for validation for their own bad behaviour!)
And if the money is already set aside for these kids, then taking it away from them essentially means she’s expecting her step-kids to pay for her house, which is bonkers.
And it’s IN the divorce decree! He can’t just ask them to take out loans instead. It’s already been legally established that the money is for the kids, not a house.
If the kids can take out student loans, I don’t understand why the letter writer can’t get a mortgage? Just don’t pay for a house outright, like the rest of us.
Same! It’s not even asking teenagers to go into debt so that she can have a house, it’s asking teenagers to go into debt so that her husband can avoid paying any interest on the house he can probably afford anyways.
Triple ugghh, from me personally, because I cannot stand LW’s (and other jerky types elsewhere on the interwebs) attitude re: Ivy League and similar schools. Yes, there ARE amazing state schools, but they are not EVERYWHERE, and they are NOT universally amazing in EVERY department! Sometimes those state schools are good academically but in terrible areas, either for safety (I mean knife and gun fights in the student bars, not “not gentrified enough for my comfort”) or for cost! Sometimes those state schools are so big that it’s difficult to stand out to employers at job fairs, and they may not have any particular relationship to any particular industry that might give you a leg up in this terrible, horrible, no-good job situation. (I’m 2 years post-grad, so I know of what I speak.) Frankly, LW has a toddler–I seriously doubt she is up to date on her info on the state schools.
I attended a well-known, highly regarded private university in the Big 10. I got a B.S. degree. I am up to my eyeballs in debt for it, but without its connections or reputation, I wouldn’t have my current job, which supports me more than comfortably, loan payments and all. Shit, I pay my DAD’S share of my loan burden, because he can’t and that was the deal.
We didn’t have important connections, we didn’t have heaps of money, we didn’t have A Name. My parents wanted me to have more than they did, and the only way they knew how to do that was to take what money they had and put me on track for fancy elite college. A school like mine, like an Ivy, has a certain reputation, piques certain interests, has certain connections. LW’s stepdaughters are the first to get degrees in the family–how much do you want to bet they’re hell-bent on attaining financial independence 1) for their own peace of mind and 2) for that of their father, who made enough money without a college degree to pay for their education, holy crap!
It just incenses me that grown men and women who are already secure, with retirement funds and paid-off homes, believe that I (and others like me) shouldn’t be allowed to play the system for what it is. Who the hell is LW to decide that her stepdaughters shouldn’t enjoy the possible upward mobility or just plain financial FREEDOM that they’ve almost certainly earned (or if they haven’t ‘earned’ it, their father has decided they will have it, which is just as valid)?
tl;dr I do not like this woman one bit and I hope her stepdaughters become amazing, independent women who get the distinct pleasure of watching LW destroy her marriage over her sense of entitlement conflicting with her raging jealousy. Also I am sorry for polluting the Toast comments with my hulksmash.
The great news is that that private Big10 university is now pledging to improve financial aid for students such that they plan to eliminate loans. Too late for my impoverished class, but I have hopes for my kid to get in without breaking the bank.
Imagine the hissy that LW would throw if (assuming agreements to pay post secondary education costs are enforceable in contract like they are in my state) she got her way, and then her husband had to pay not just the school costs but the attorney’s fees. I see the “eff the stepkids” effect from second marriage partners all the time – one who wanted their spouse to spend several thousand to go to trial over a $40 per month child support variance – and it enrages me because it’s always about “but what about OUR kids?!?”. Part of what you married into was your spouses support obligation. You should have considered that in your own family planning. Deal with it and stop being a stepmonster.
Bill Clinton is frustrating me so much right now. I never really got over my general antipathy towards him, and my becoming pro-Hillary for this election was in part related to my ability to see her as her own person and let go of even the 2008 primary, where I was super pro-Obama. But man, every time he’s in the spotlight again, it just reminds me of all the bullshit and ugh. Make him go away.
“My very real, non-rhetorical toddler was seated on a sumptuous Persian rug in front of the television, playing with her simple wooden blocks with the quiet concentration so characteristic of children absorbed in their own world. Suddenly, her eyes flitted to the television, losing none of their intensity as she watched Bill Clinton silently speaking.
Then she turned her head to look at me, her inquisitive eyes shining. “Father,” she said, “Why is Bill Clinton trying to sabotage his wife’s campaign?” http://www.mtv.com/news/2797602/how-to-talk-about…
“I wonder if there’s a part of Bill Clinton that doesn’t really want Hillary Clinton to become president, particularly if she has to distance herself from his legacy to do so. How else to explain why one of the world’s most talented and agile politicians is so consistently flat-footed and destructive when advocating on his wife’s behalf? How else to explain his terrible and destined-to-be-viral confrontation Thursday with Black Lives Matter protesters in Philadelphia?” http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/p…
UGH BILL.
I was talking with a friend about Hillary and how I was wondering if she fit the narrative of “woman falls in love with man, has ambitions but decides to help him achieve his ambitions first, things get crazier as he becomes more successful and now there’s not many ways to work on her ambitions without directly opposing his, so now she has to wait until he’s reached the top of his career and then maybe she can get shit done.”
My friend suggested that perhaps the best thing if Hillary becomes president would be for her to happily divorce Bill, or at least send him off somewhere to never be heard from again. I doubt anyone who supported her would be mad.
Your friend sounds very smart. Bill is running afoul of Hillary’s hard-core base, e.g.: http://wonkette.com/600459/hillary-clinton-needs-…
I’m also pretty perplexed that Bill is still stumping for Hillary. Her campaign managers have to know that this results in some inevitable foot-in-mouth action, no matter how charismatic he is.
I’m very much in the camp of Team Progressive Who Will Accept Whoever The Dems Choose (Because Cruz and Trump are Intolerable Options) but I have a bad taste in my mouth every time I remember anything related to the Clintons, their comments re. race and politics, and the 2008 Democratic primary. I’ve been able to put it largely aside because I think Hillary has a better grasp of how to get shit done in the fed gov’t, but then Bill has to come around and dredge all of this shit up again.
Bill gives off this air of “oh I just woke up this morning and thought it would be fun to come check out some polling places and meet new people!” but of course he is much smarter than that. It sucks to remember that he is actually very politically savvy and cannot just be bumbling around Hillary’s campaign, saying things by accident. I’m still inclined to blame him for it rather than her or her campaign, but it would be much better if he would just stop.
It’s interesting to contrast Bill with Dubya, who stayed as far away from his brother’s campaign as possible, both because he is acknowledged to be The Worst and to minimize the dynastic aspect of his candidacy. I wonder how Hillary has weighed this and I think her decision to allow him to make public appearances is likely very carefully calculated.
On the one hand, Bill reminds people of her dynastic angle, and is just a general asshat. Hillary has also been getting heat for his crime bill and welfare reform, and his involvement can only hurt her by stirring up bad memories, as we’ve seen here.
On the other hand, Bill spent a fair amount of time attacking Obama in the 2008 primary (including ironically accusing him of race-baiting) but ultimately came out in support of him and I seem to remember that Bill’s support was deemed to benefit the Obama campaign. If Bill is more loved than hated by the average Democrat, her decision to set him loose makes sense.
I get that people here don’t like Bill Clinton, but a lot of people overall still like Bill Clinton. (Favorite piece of that link: every poll where 1-2% of people say they have never heard of Bill Clinton. Wat.) And a lot of black folks like him (and Hillary), even with their issues. Jamelle Bouie had a good column earlier this year exploring the historical roots of the black community’s affinity for the Clintons.
Yep, this. I heard something on the radio this morning to the effect that African Americans had the highest prosperity of basically ever under his presidency, so slightly older voters definitely still support and love him. Doesn’t mean valid critiques aren’t totally valid, but you’ve gotta consider the good along with the bad.
For sure. I think part of it is a romanticization of the 90s, because Bush made Clinton look amazing and while he sowed the seeds of various terrible policies (welfare reform, NAFTA, the crime bill etc) the consequences weren’t felt as acutely at the time and the economy was better.
Also worth pointing out: Black Americans Supported the 1994 Crime Bill, Too. (As did a certain representative from Vermont, who voted for it.) I think a key part in that interview is this:
But Fortner’s argument—which he also makes in his book in reference to the infamously harsh drug laws passed by Nelson Rockefeller in 1973—is that crime policy should not be seen as something that just happens to minority populations. “Black folks have agency,” as he put it to me. “Their voices had a huge impact in changing the narrative around urban crime and drug addiction and pushing it in a way that validated very punitive crime policies.”
Definitely, African Americans are not a homogenous group and there is obviously not a single consensus on the issue.
Black Lives Matter has had resonant criticisms of both HRC and Sanders at various points in this campaign and each of them have also won the endorsement of various high profile African Americans, so it’s more complicated than simply condemning/idealizing one or the other.
Not to mention he left office with a budget SURPLUS. A SURPLUS, guys. I watched The Daily Show’s Month of Zen last year, as Jon started his show in the last year of the Clinton presidency — and I vividly remember the joke he made about what to do with the surplus: “Or we could just bomb it all away…”
This just made me remember that while I was waiting in the endless line to get into Hillary’s rally in Harlem last week, a guy walked by and asked the lady behind me what we were waiting for. She told him, and he said, “aw man is Bill gonna be there??” The lady didn’t know (Bill wasn’t an announced speaker, and in fact was not there), and the man walked on, saying “too bad, Bill’s my guy!”
So yes, people do like Bill Clinton.
Instead of a big bowl, take those lemons and put them in a big clear vase, add water, float a candle on top
put homemade quilts on your couch (hides shabby couch, looks cozy)
books everywhere (especially Piketty, dog ear those pages, add bookmark, voila, intellectual)
That picture is FIRE. I have such a crush on y’all. <3
YES, you guys are gorgeous! And smart and funny and wise and I adore you and relish knowing you got to be in the same place for a spell.
Seconded! Also, I’m incredibly jealous of those glasses, they are fantastic.
Also, does anyone know anything about IntenseDebate? Specifically the ability to “follow” other users? I have been getting email notifications that people are following me on ID, and (1) I don’t know what that means / (2) I don’t think I like it because… privacy I guess? / (3) who are these people and how did they find me? / (4) Can I block them and make my profile unfollowable?
FWIW I have been very Old Man Yells At Cloud this week so maybe I am just a cranky middle-aged lady now. :/
So here’s the sitch. I accidentally followed somebody on ID and couldn’t figure out how to unfollow them, but I never got emails about their posting. They just had a different color username when I saw them on ID. Of course, it might have been that those emails went to my spam but who knows.
I accidentally follow people on ID a lot (when trying to reply to the comment above), and if you just click on their username and go to their ID profile there will be an “Unfollow” link.
THANK YOU I am so glad I’m not the only one who does that.
I worry that people will think I’m being weird and creepy. I’m just incompetent, I swear!
Oh man, am I following people, too? I’m not following anyone, I swear on a stack of hot buttered cinnamon French toast. (AH, what if this post is refuting what I just said? Eeeeeep….)
I’ve accidentally followed (and then unfollowed) someone on ID before by click-dragging when I was scrolling through the Toast (sorry to whoever that was). But if you’re getting lots of followers it’s probably not people doing it by accident?
I follow a few people and it just means their posts show up in your feed:
http://intensedebate.com/home
I keep accidentally following people when the page loads too slow and I mean to click Reply but did it too fast and my cursor was over the person’s icon and I click that green +FOLLOW button and then I feel like an asshole for immediately unfollowing.
I’ve been getting a slew of those from very fake-sounding people and it worried me but nothing has happened as a result…yet.
I accidentally follow people sometimes, and then I unfollow them.
I think everyone’s right and most of your followers are probably spammers. I don’t know of a way to stop them from following you, but you can turn off the email notifications in your IntenseDebate settings. Not that that helps with privacy concerns.
This is an older article that came up on my Facebook last night that made me very sad but also hopeful. It is about dying alone in New York City so if that is one of your specific fears you may not want to read it but I appreciate the care the journalist took to try and find someone, anyone that knew and cared about the person in question and it gave me comfort to see that, well, even if he may have been physically alone for a while, there were still people that cared.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/18/nyregion/dying-…
Oh, that article was so good. I loved learning more about the process behind the scenes of what happens after someone dies without anyone around.
Anyone else following the drama in response Calvin Trillin’s poem in the New Yorker, about Chinese food? It is a pretty tone deaf “satire”.
I thought this was a pretty great response by Karissa Chen: http://www.theestablishment.co/2016/04/07/a-rap-b…
Yes! Her rap battle response was great, and not just because in my head I read it in Lin-Manuel Miranda’s voice.
I have, a bit, because poetry is one of my demesnes, and a lot of poets I know were talking about it online. Honestly, one of the things I’m glad about is that it’s such an incredibly lousy poem? Because nobody can possibly drag out the “But it’s GREAT ART” defense–not that “GREAT ART” is an excuse for racism and xenophobia, but nobody can even TRY it with this, because it’s such a piece of crap, so we are spared having to dismantle that argument.
Fatimah Asghar (who was my student at one point!) wrote this powerful response that I wanted to share: http://fatimahasghar.com/2016/04/07/to-the-white-…
The response that moved me the most was that of my friend, who spoke about how exhausting it is, to see something like this taking up a creative space–instead of, for example, the poem I just linked to, or any one of literally thousands of amazing poems by hundreds of poets of color. It happens over and over; I’ve heard writers of color in particular refer to it as a tax, like a poll tax, like something that is levied on you if you dare to exist and make art in the U.S. as a person of color.
Fatimah Asghar’s poem is wonderful. Thanks for sharing.
Interesting–a poet shared it on my FB as an example of perfect anapestic rhyme that’s very true to Trillin’s voice as a writer and wide-ranging foodie, and then she was immediately eaten alive by people screaming at her. As a result I have not read the poem or any of the screaming because life is short.
I guess, for me, if the voice that he is being true to is elitist and xenophobic, and if the most fun thing he can think of to do is to use form cleverly to say inane and spiteful and dismissive things, maybe he should give his voice a rest for a while? Or someone close to him (like his editor!) should have said, “You know, this is really an extended ethnic joke, it’s not that smart or funny”?
Definitely don’t spend any more time on this than you want! The poem is short and doesn’t take long to read, and you can draw your own conclusions. Or you can skip it.
The New Yorker cares more about literary celebrity than great art.
In my head, its slogan is “All the worst poems by all the best names.”
Yes! And Franny Choi ‘ s response was perfect.
Ah! One of my twitter folks retweeted some stuff about it but I hadn’t seen the original issue. Thank you.
And now that I’ve read the poem, Jesus Christ.
That response is fire emojis for days. So good!
To be honest, my main response to all this is to feel really bad for Calvin Trillin, because I see the poem as just self-deprecating dad humor, from someone who’s actually very pleased that there’s such a variety of Chinese food available in the US these days.
Part of this response comes from being pretty familiar with Calvin Trillin’s writing and his attitudes about food. I’ve been reading him since I was a child, and in all his writings he comes across as a really lovely person. For instance, he’s the only male writer I’ve ever encountered who I trusted to write about his wife. In his humor columns, he often wrote about his family, and he wrote about them with so much love and respect, and his wife, Alice, came across as such a smart, funny, delightful person that when she died (of cancer, in a hospital in New York City, on September 11, 2001, incidentally) he got this enormous response from people who felt like they also knew and loved her. He used to write a lot of humor columns and long-form food writing – he and Alice used to travel, both abroad and in the US, and he would write about regional food with a ton of specificity and respect.
That said, I hate his doggerels, because they’re dumb and a waste of his time and talents. But as someone who’s read Calvin Trillin on the subject of Chinese food (and regional American food, and regional Italian food, and regional British food, and so on) many, many times, it would never occur to me to read that stupid poem and think Calvin Trillin was anything other than delighted with the variety in Chinese cuisine. To me, it reads, like I said, as self-deprecating dad-style humor, the gist of which is: It used to be rough being a huge fan of Chinese food in the US, because we had so little variety. Now we have such an awesome variety it’s hard for an old fogey like me to keep up. The irony!
It’s dumb, sure, but xenophobic? That, I think, is taking the poem way too literally.
That was basically my impression, too (as a long-time reader of his).
I hear you guys, and this is context I didn’t have. Context does change things. But the context of this piece is not only the context of his body of work–it’s also the context of the way the culture in which the work appears (and in which the work is highly visible, in which a place of some status is made for it), talks about and figures Chinese people, exotic-ness, and foreignness.
I’m not saying “Calvin Trillin is garbage.” He might be kind of great! I don’t know! (Also, of course, a person can be really great about some things, and terrible about others, at the same time.) But this poem IS garbage, and if he is great, then it is indeed unworthy of him.
Also … he will be fine. People are going to continue publishing his work, and he will probably get to keep most of what he has that he enjoys.
I keep writing responses and then deleting them, because I can’t think of exactly the way I want to address this issue.
I get your point about the cultural context surrounding China and Chinese culture and the way it’s historically been represented in American literature. And I think that’s why so many people were so quick to read the poem literally, even though there were a lot of signals in it that it wasn’t to be taken literally. (Trillin has pointed out that he wrote a similar poem about French food a few years back, and no one thought he was genuinely nostalgic for the days when French food meant supermarket Brie.)
But i get the impression, and maybe I’m wrong, that you’re saying “Maybe Calvin Trillin isn’t a xenophobe, but he wrote a xenophobic poem” – with the implication that if his reputation suffers as a result, he deserves it. And that, I think, is not really fair. Even if the misunderstanding is rooted in people’s expectations about how white people, especially old white people, write about China, it’s still a misunderstanding. It’s still a misinterpretation based on readers missing the irony and mistaking the narrator for the writer. And it’s a misinterpretation that I don’t think would have gained so much mileage if the people attacking Calvin Trillin had stopped to read some of his other writing first.
And that means that Calvin Trillin hasn’t really done anything wrong. Sure, he failed to foresee that the poem would be misread in such a way that it would be seen as xenophobic. But that doesn’t make him a xenophobe, and it doesn’t mean that the poem is xenophobic either.
I also really appreciate your willingness to keep talking and thinking about this in a careful way. This is probably the last thing I, personally, want to say about it for now (but you can still say more things if you want, and I will hear them).
I think what I’m saying is that if Calvin Trillin made a joke that needed people to know the context of his larger body of work in order to think it was funny and self-mocking instead of petty and other-people-mocking, and then people felt mocked and dismissed in a way that was very similar to the ways that they get mocked and dismissed all the time, it wasn’t a very good joke.
It’s not the same to write sarcastically about France and French food as it is to write sarcastically about China and Chinese food. The differences of status, history, relations between the countries, popular perceptions are not comparable. Very very generally speaking, most (white) French people who come to the U.S. to live don’t meet the same response as Chinese people who come to the U.S. to live.
I don’t know if his reputation will suffer or not. I don’t think he’s going to have trouble selling work, or paying his bills, or seeing his children, or getting a seat in a restaurant. It might be that people who could have enjoyed his other writings will give up on him without ever reading them. If those writings are smart and good, that would be their loss.
What I would hope is that he will think a little more before he writes and publishes, next time–which is what I hope for us all!
Again, thanks for thinking and talking about this with me.
Thank you! I really appreciate this opportunity to talk about this situation. I hope you don’t mind if I say a few more things – I just feel this unexpected need to stand up and testify for Calvin Trillin, and I’m really glad to have this space to do so. I wrote a comment that was much too long, so I’m splitting it into a couple of comments.
I was surprised by my own emotional reaction to seeing Calvin Trillin in trouble. When people ask me my favorite authors, I never think to list Calvin Trillin, but I think over the years I learned a lot from him about how to think about food and family and culture and the connection between those three things. I was always struck by how fundamentally kind his humor was; he was always sharp and perceptive, but never mean, and he was far more likely to poke fun at himself than at another person. And he never represented himself as an expert on any given food, just as someone who liked to eat and ask questions. So my first reaction, when I read the responses to his poem, was “Of all the people!” Of all the people who could possibly be accused of this particular crime, Calvin Trillin?
So here goes: I think that any humor writer with a satirical/ironic voice is going to be misread at some point, and that doesn’t necessarily mean that the writer screwed up and didn’t signal the irony well enough. Sometimes people just read a piece the way they want, or expect, to read it. And sometimes you can predict that, but sometimes not. Look at Mallory and that Bluebeard piece from a few weeks ago – there were a lot of comments praising the story for being heartwarming, and it took awhile before someone pointed out that Bluebeard still had his dead wives stashed in that room. And those early comments came from Mallory’s regular readers. Being read literally is part of the risk you run in writing that particular kind of humor, and the better your audience knows you, the greater the chance that they’ll get your joke, but there are no guarantees that everyone will get the joke.
In this case, I think the reason no one predicted that the poem would be misinterpreted is that it simply didn’t occur to anyone at all familiar with Calvin Trillin to take his poem literally, even for a second. My extended family are all regular New Yorker readers, and they all got the joke without thinking twice about it. They’re not particularly Trillin fans, but his food writing appears in the New Yorker now and then, so they did have that basic context.
So here’s the question: given that Calvin Trillin is a famous food writer who’s been writing for the New Yorker for fifty years, and given that some of his food articles have very recently appeared in the New Yorker, is it unreasonable of him to expect readers of the New Yorker to come equipped with some of that context? I guess the answer is that when you’re writing satire that’s even peripherally connected to issues of race, you can’t be too careful. I don’t think Calvin Trillin realized he was on dangerous ground, though, probably because he’s so far removed from the kind of thinking that would consider “Your country has too many kinds of food” to be a genuine criticism that it probably never occurred to him that anyone could interpret it that way.
Part Two:
There’s one other point I’d like to make, which is that a lot of people have referred to Calvin Trillin as a white poet, and I think there’s an assumption being made that he occupies the position he does at the New Yorker because of white privilege. He may be white now, but he wasn’t particularly white, or particularly privileged, when he was growing up in a Yiddish-speaking immigrant family during WWII. I just read his memoir Messages From My Father, and apparently he went to Yale at a time when Yale still had quotas in place to keep its student body from being too Jewish. So he’s not really an embodiment of the kind of unearned privilege people are associating him with. And he is a member of an ethnic minority that has its own cuisine, which I think changes the perspective a bit as well.
So there you have it; I seem to have written a small book. But I wanted to say everything that’s been running around in my head for the last few days – mostly because, as you say, there’s a chance that people who could have enjoyed Calvin Trillin will give up on him, and I’d be sad, for their sake, to see that happen. In my googling of the controversy, I found an article by Louisa Chu, a Chinese-American writer, talking about how much Trillin’s writing meant to her, precisely because of how he wrote about Chinese food. He wrote about being in Europe and missing Chinese food, and turning to his readers to help him find the good Chinese food in every city, and this captured something that was central to her experience of traveling in Europe. That’s what’s so good about Calvin Trillin’s food writing: that he understands that regional food is often better than haute cuisine, that he understands how food is bound up with culture and family, and that he is always, always ready to listen to other people when they tell him about food. So yeah, I’d be sad if you missed out on reading him. I hope you’ll give him a try. Try “Alice, Off the Page,” the portrait of his wife that he wrote for the New Yorker after her death. Or try Alice, Let’s Eat if you don’t happen to feel like sobbing your eyes out. But I do hope you’ll consider reading something of his.
That picture makes my heart swell with emotion! Fried pickles in bed, imagine!
I have feelings about Trey from Broad City! Spoilersish below if you’re not caught up.
I’m so mad at Abbi! No one is obligated to be in a relationship they’re not fully invested in, but use your words! Poor Trey’s little fist pump when she faked “getting emotional about us” was so sad. Kirk Steele deserves better.
Even spoilier in my reply to this one (don’t look if you aren’t current).
I know! I was getting to like him, too. Not to mention, IF THIS NEW DEVELOPMENT STICKS I AM GOING TO MISS LINCOLN/Ilana TERRIBLY.
I was thinking maybe it’s because Hannibal Buress’s career is really taking off right now and he’s not able to do the show anymore?? If that’s true, then I will cry a thousand tears because Lincoln/Ilana are amazing.
Ugh, yes I felt so bad for Trey. I was hoping maybe she would apologize and make it up to him but her convo with Ilana in the tub after made that seem unlikely. I feel like she’s too concerned about other people’s opinions all the time to date him for real so she’ll keep breaking Trey’s heart </3
And Ilana!! When she cried I almost cried! What an emotional episode.
Me too! It was so great to see some real-realness from Ilana; I love her but she’s always so goofy that it’s refreshing to see something beneath that.
Yes I really related to her in that moment. I was thinking that if I knew Ilana as a real person I would wonder what was underneath all of her mannerisms, so it was great to see her be “real”.
I watched the episode twice last night and had a LOT of feelings, for everyone involved.
Guys, I’m just so excited Melissa McCarthy is coming back to GG: http://www.avclub.com/article/melissa-mccarthy-st…
Me too!! I’m trying to avoid spoilers, but I don’t count this to be spoilers.
I am SO EXCITED about that BUT ALSO those pictures that got posted on EW????
Rory teaching at Chilton?? (I hope as a guest lecturer, tbh, I can’t see her as a full-time teacher.) LUKE AND LORELAI HOLDING HANDS???????????????
She would go crazy as a teacher. Especially with kids sitting on their cell phones all day.
Everyone knows Rory has taken over for CJ Cregg.
(I’m going to have to watch the new GG with my finger on the FF button, aren’t I?)
The only flaw with GG reboot is fixed? Thanks for telling us!
Not gonna lie, this kind of made my week.
Lots of other interesting stuff in that Dear Pru column; I was especially taken by the one from the woman whose husband drives drunk home from work regularly. Nothing personal against Emily Yoffe, but I often got the feeling from her columns that the focus was on “can you believe these freaks.” Mallory-Pru seems generally more compassionate while still being blunt when it’s necessary, e.g. “‘None’ is the right amount of time, I’m afraid.” I’m also adding Captain Awkward and AaM to my regular feed.
That drunk driving one reeeeeally buried the lede. He’s unhappy at work, okay, this is a problem, let’s see how you can support hi — oh shit RUN!
Yeah, I am currently unhappy at work, but that doesn’t mean I’m grabbing a six pack and killing it on the El on the way home.
“He could kill soneone! Should I just wait for that to happen and hope he learns his lesson?”
Actually what that letter says omg
So last night I was doing dishes and realized that I might actually be an Actual Grownup (TM) and that imgur kind of solidified that, oh shit
So many of the items on that imgur list are things my parents do AND NOW I KNOW THEIR SECRET. You can’t fool me anymore, guys!
I won’t be around for the Open Thread today, so I’ll say it now: A big thank you to everyone who commiserated with me and/or gave advice yesterday regarding Creepy Dude. I didn’t go to the library today; that is not an ideal solution, but the best I can manage right now. I also talked to my therapist today which left me very emotional, so I’m indulging in some self-care this weekend.
The Toast truly is the best community and I’m glad I found you <3
Many internet hugs to you, Merripat. (PS someone dear to me is called Mary Pat, so I love your user name!)
Thank you 🙂
The Toast: the internet’s #1 source for Creepy Dude support and solidarity.
ALSO okay if a girl I know just sent me the link to the Tegan and Sara song
eta: and said girl has definitely been flirting for months and it took me ages to figure that out
Nothing clears up “is this girl flirting with me” faster than a Tegan and Sara song!
Especially THAT PARTICULAR one
Don’t feel too bad about not catching on, another commenter here only just realised why a girl gave her a book of Sappho’s poems back in high school and she only just figured out the message.
Don’t mind me, I’m just literally sighing at my desk trying to calculate how many hours of my life in HS/college I spent making mixtapes for straight girls.
ETA: Those were not wasted hours. I make a mean mixtape. I wrote down every track list from every mixtape I ever made, too; I should resurrect them as playlists I guess?
YES resurrect them please
OK so I was hoping that this article would be on The Toast so I could have people gasping in horror with me, because Gay Talese PARTICIPATED in a crime, and wrote a New Yorker article and a book about it and I couldn’t even get through the article I was so nauseous.
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/04/11/gay-…
I got down on my knees and crawled toward the lighted louvres. Then I stretched my neck in order to see as much as I could through the vent, nearly butting heads with Foos as I did so. Finally, I saw a naked couple spread out on the bed below, engaged in oral sex. Foos and I watched for several moments, and then Foos lifted his head and gave me a thumbs-up sign.
That article was really disturbing, and I’m surprised there hasn’t been more reaction to this celebrated journalist so nonchalant about being an accessory… it’s almost like we are supposed to believe there actually IS some contribution to science here or something. Maybe no one reads the New Yorker anymore? WTF?
Particularly disgusting in light of his recent comments about female journalists. Not that the two are necessarily related, but, geez, if I were his publicist I would think that he is not having a very good week.
Right?!?! It’s absolutely insane! Honestly, I kind of feel like the whole brouhaha about him not being inspired by any women writers recently has been unfortunate just in the fact that it’s taken the conversation off of this. He not only knew about this creep’s continuing crimes for 35 years and didn’t report them, he participated in them. And oh yeah, the guy confessed to witnessing a MURDER and Talese did NOTHING!!!! Insane and terrifying. How is nobody freaking out about this?
Oh and did you notice how he completely buries in a single sentence about other “weird stuff” Foos saw that he witnessed a bunch of rapes? But of course we don’t get any moral angst about not reporting those.
Oh man, I didn’t even catch that, he buried it so well. Ugh. What an evil piece of shit, both of them.
I’ve got “I cannot even” by the bushel for this one.
As I was reading the article I kept hoping the next paragraph would start with “I called the Sheriff’s office the next morning”, or at least “The next morning I gave Foos an ultimatium: Sell his hotel within the next year and retire from the business, or I’ll contact the authorities”.
Nope.
this week really has been designed to make me regret how I voted in the primary, right? This statement applies no matter who I voted for.
and then the Dem convention and the Republican convention will happen, and we will all be reminded why most of us vote for Dems, even given their fucked up-edness.
but yes, this week has been maddening.
My state’s one of the April 26 primaries and I’m almost indignant that I’m going to have to actually vote one way or the other and that my vote may have consequences.
THIS WASN’T SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN.
THIS.
SAME. I worry that Hillary’s campaign is going to implode because of the Panama Papers, waiting for that ugly yet expensive shoe to drop. But the upcreeping nastiness is unfortunate for all.
PREGNANT ME NEEDS FRIED PICKLES SO BAD RIGHT NOW.
Not-pregnant me needs fried pickles right now!
With a little cayenne in the breading. YESSS.
The sauerkraut in the fridge is not going to be an adequate substitute. 🙁
Why do I not live anywhere near Cornell?
I sometimes do have a bowl of lemons in my flat, because I cook with them quite a lot. However, it is a cheap wicker (or something similar) bowl which looks very far from fancy, and sometimes the lemons sit out for too long and develop blue mould. I am not glamorous.
I have been greatly enjoying reading the #indieamnesty tweets on Twitter. I was a teenager in the mid-2000s (turned 13 in November 2002) and this music was the soundtrack to it; while I didn’t go to gigs much (that was my siblings), I still listened to stuff. My gym playlist is still full of the Strokes and the Futureheads and the Arctic Monkeys; mid-2000s indie will always hold a special place in my heart. (My boyfriend, however, knows almost nothing about it, claimed when I played it for him earlier that he has never heard Seven Nation Army in his life, and looks at me blankly when I name bands. I suspect this is partly down to the fact that I had Sky television as a teenager and he did not; I spent so many hours watching MTV2.)
I turned 13 in 2002 and I still like The Strokes and The Arctic Monkeys. And Franz Ferdinand. And The Killers. And Interpol. But I never really thought of them as indie bands. *shrug* There’s a board games cafe I go to that plays all of that stuff and I immediately go to my happy place.
I also have started listening to more and more 80’s music lately so I don’t know if I’m just getting to the point where I’m an old person and don’t care about new music? But I feel too young to be THAT old, if that makes sense.
And everyone has heard Seven Nation Army. Evvvvvveryone.
I have not really listened to new music since I started university in 2008. I don’t know much/any of Taylor Swift/Rihanna/Janelle Monae/Adele’s music (these people are currently popular, right?) and sometimes it makes me feel like I am definitely an Old Person.
To me, the Strokes, Arctic Monkeys, White Stripes et al ARE New Music, because I more or less stopped listening to new music at university too, which is when all of these bands came out. It’s hilarious to me that early 00s music is nostalgic now, because it still seems new-fangled to me.
One day people will be nostalgic for the musical trends of today, and I will find it hilarious and bizarre!
The above bands are not quite New Music to me, but just “that’s what music sounds like, right? What do you mean, stuff’s moved on over the last ten years?”.
I just went to look at that tag, and Oh Man. Yeah, I was in high school 04-08 and I don’t think I’ll ever be that invested in current music again. (Interpol is still basically my favorite band)
Also it led me to this article – http://noisey.vice.com/en_uk/blog/landfill-indie-…
and I could never stand Johnny Borrell, but deeply enjoyed this line: “Also, he committed the unforgivable sin of storming off Never Mind the Buzzcocks. At least I had the good grace to sit there and take the ribbing I deserved.”
ahhhh, now I just want to go and watch the entirety of Simon Amstell’s run on NMTB. Why am I at work again?
On another note, the cast for the new Doctor Who spinoff, Class, was announced on Monday and I’m not completely sold on it. I mean, who am I kidding, I’ll probably watch it, but the sole connection to the original series is the school, and that doesn’t sound very convincing to me.
And more importantly, WHEN WILL THEY FINALLY ANNOUNCE WHO’S PLAYING THE NEW COMPANION
Coal Hill School has been part of Doctor Who since the very first shoot in 1963, but this new show is anything but history. Class is dark and sexy and right now.
GO AWAY STEPHEN MOFFAT
ughhhhh
At least he’s not writing the new show…
True! I don’t have an opinion on Patrick Ness (I did read The Knife of Never Letting Go, but I can’t remember having any feelings about it), but the show *should* benefit from having one person writing the whole thing.
I really loved The Rest of Us Just Live Here (which has a fun plot element that leads me to believe Ness has a sense of humor about “dark, sexy” tv).
People seem to believe there’s something cutting-edge about sexiness, when it’s quite literally the oldest trick in the book.
DOES SPIDER HAVE PUSSPUSS
/ded
was coming down to join you as a ded person 😀
Now those are words I want to see on a pillow. Or a wall.
…OK, see you soon on Pinterest, guys. I’ll have a surprise.
Please put a faux-old-timey science diagram on the back.
There is only one label and it says “NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”
The best answer is almost always NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It brought me joy that one of the four comments on the Santa Ana winds article was about chemtrails. Oh, internet.
I just finished reading it and got to that comment and thought the SAME THING. Wake up sheeple!
Someone who lives near me sprays the word ‘Chemtrails’ on any available wall. Just that, in white spray paint. Clearly they feel the world needs to know.
But what ABOUT chemtrails?
Oh my god 30litresof, PLEASE spray paint bookworm’s comment underneath the existing graffiti
In a surprise twist, they’re actually pro-chemtrails and trying their best to promote them to the masses.
I’m through the first paragraph of that Santa Ana story and already I love it. #SoCalLyfe
If you haven’t watched the Paul W. Downs episode of The Characters on Netflix, do so posthaste! It’s completely hilarious. He has this character that’s a blind Segway cop that has to be seen to be believed. Then watch the Lauren Lapkus one and the Kate Berlant one. Save the Natasha Rothwell one for last, as it is almost perfection.
http://www.avclub.com/tvclub/paul-w-downs-awfully…
So far I’ve only watched Lapkus’ episode. I’m behind on everything!
I just watched the Natasha Rothwell episode. Thank you so much for bringing it to my attention. It’s amazing.
The pretending to have your shit together link is so good for me right now as I prepare to host my first dinner party with work friends. Does anyone remember what you’re supposed to do to get your whole apartment smelling nice? I think it’s like put cinnamon sticks in the oven or something?? But that seems kind of Christmas-sy. If anyone has other suggestions I’d love to hear them!
Cinnamon sticks in a pan of water or apple juice on the stovetop, on low. Maybe a squirt of vanilla too!
ETA: check it often enough that it doesn’t boil dry and burn and cause your entire apartment to smell terrible. Also you can add a lemon peel if you want.
thank you this is awesome!
Great idea, thank you!
Bake some cookies, or orange peels through the garbage disposal works very nicely too, or lemons.
Seconding the cookie strategy, because when it’s all said and done, you will have cookies.
Coffee beans under the grill is the seventies classic!
As I will probably have to leave the house before the Open Thread goes up, just posting to say that I am going to the Warner Brothers Studio Tour this evening with my boyfriend and friend to get our Harry Potter nerdiness on. I am excited.
It was so great to see you both in person/hear your insights at Cornell yesterday!! I was so excited for weeks leading up to it and you were just so lovely.
Do you have favorite Merlin modern day AU stories? Would you like to share them?
Also any great femslash and any new sherlock fic you’ve liked. (I’ve read all of the classics, but what if there are new ones, what then?!?!)
Any fandom in particular for femslash? Because I have loads but only for particular areas.
This one, about rowing at Oxford: https://archiveofourown.org/works/7197
I have never watched Merlin OR rowed, but I went to Oxford and the author of this fic clearly did as well, because it is so, so accurate.
This is Just to Say
Mallory and Nicole
and Lucie and Rachel
were awesome. Come back
to Ithaca any time.
Oh God, being an executer…my late mother, may she finally rest in peace, put me in charge of my parent’s estate (my father had passed years previously from stomach cancer) because Mr. PonyAlong is a certified and most excellent financial planner. Her will was…messed up, in the sense that she had very specific payout times for sibling A (sibling A is on permanent mental health disability and Mumsy thought he would “get better” so she thought it best to stagger his inheritance…WTF) and sibling B, an unemployed adult male in his late 40’s , was INCENSED that the family home was to be sold because then where would he live and that I was supposed “to take care of him”. This is a direct quote, folks. OH, and at her funeral, Sibling B showed up late and loudly talked and laughed sporadically throughout her service. Considering he lived off her his entire life, DUDE. For three years and counting, Mr.PonyAlong and I have dealt with SOME SHIT (trust fund and government red tape for sibling A, tax returns, sibling B who made selling the house DIFFICULT, the realtor who would give me rundowns on the various kooky hijinks that sibling B was doing re: the house to the point where I had to threaten him with arrest, etc., etc., etc.). My entire life, since Grade One anyway, my mother would unload on me re: my brothers and even after her death, I’m still made to feel responsible for them (or at least one, “B” has disappeared from my life completely at his choosing…sigh).
Tl;dr…talk to your parent/parents TODAY about their wills AND ABOUT WHO GETS WHAT (that’s a whole other mess of worms, f*******).
Took me a second to realize you didn’t say “Oh God, being an executioner” — different topic, and yet.
OH YEAH, that word is pretty apt!
I still need someone to hold me after this week’s Broad City. I am so emotionally distraught I had three Broad City dreams last night, where Abi and Ilana went on happier and weirder adventures that didn’t hurt my heart so much.
Goddamn, if that’s all it takes, I really have my shit together.
Enjoy this gif of a dog trying to convince another dog to go swimming.
That gif is just perfect.
So I haven’t seen Crimson Peak yet, and my new working theory is that if I hold out long enough, eventually Nicole will just show up at my house and watch it with me because she needs to make sure each and every one of us has seen it, right? Right??
Thank you for visiting Ithaca! We loved meeting you, too! 🙂 You left us inspired to blaze new trails, to find contentment between Cubicle Hell and Starving Artisthood, and, when all else fails, to fill up on pudding.
Ex!boss is that dog owner. When the dogs were fostered on a farm after his arrest (border collie/Aussie mixes), and fed adequately, lo and behold, they calmed down really fast. And also became sleeker, less arthritic, and less smelly.
I do miss them around the office, though.