Thanksgiving Open Thread

by Mallory Ortberg · November 26, 2015

Have at it, chums and chumlets!

Mallory is an Editor of The Toast.


391 Comments

  1. houblonchouffe +38

    Happy Thanksgiving, chums, and to those of you who aren’t celebrating or are having a tough day: I love you, too.

    (A+ to the feed photo on this OT, Mallory. A+ .)

    1. PonyAlong +11

      Aw, this is nice…I, uh, love you, too! (Looks down at feet, toes squirming, face burning). Toast chums are THE BEST chums! Oh, and a Happy Thanksgiving!

    2. Sam +5

      “People having a tough day” is much appreciated! In a new country. Neither side of the family in the US answered video calls all day. Friend put me in touch with one of her friends here who responded to a thanksgiving invite with just “No”

  2. aravisthequeen +38

    Who else is deadly bored at work without Toast content?

    Meanwhile here in southeastern Ontario the most exciting part of my day will be a cookie and butter chicken for dinner.

    3. perianwen +2

      Me, I’m bored. :/ Plus there are so many things I could be doing at home to clean up/arrange my stuff if I had a day off but I’m stuck here.

      I don’t know what to make for dinner, I have to scoot home immediately and wait for my internet installation person to show up at some point between 5-7. And try to do a load of laundry. Very, very exciting stuff.

      1. secondursula +8

        I’ve had 4 cups of tea today, and I blame that comment thread. And I took an extra minute to follow the directions on my white tea packet and let the water cool for a bit before steeping. It was miraculous.

        I am also bored.

        1. geekcrackteam +4

          It actually took me until after lunch to get around to making a cup of tea, but now I’ve had two in a very short amount of time (I only drink tea at work, I’m far too lazy for that at home)

    5. dorianneemmerton +20

      I am glad not to be American, for this is far too late for Thanksgiving. Why, it’s practically Christmas!

    6. Strophoria +3

      I was so bored at work today! Spent all my standby time on Facebook instead, it was far far inferior. But I’m drinking a beer and hanging out with my pet rats now

  3. tragicallyludicrous +70

    I know the narrative of Thanksgiving seems to be “how to deal with problematic family members and then leave” these days, but I’ve always really liked it, and now I’m on another continent and really missing it. I’m going to FaceTime home when I get off work, but I still wish I had some pie and my parents.

    1. secondursula +9

      I’m far away from home too, and also jonesing for pie. Are you doing traditional-type foods? I got brussels sprouts and thought about doing dressing/stuffing, but then that seemed like a lot of work for just a small batch. Not sure if there’s a good Thanksgiving movie or something that could put me in the spirit of the holiday. We used to watch the Longhorn v A&M game, but now they’re not even in the Big 12. Maybe I’ll just put on some Joni Mitchell and lean into my moping.

      1. Beakses +9

        Definitely make stuffing! The work totally pays off (also, it’s the only part of the meal I really care about- priorities!)

        1. tomatoskirt +8

          I’m Canadian, so I’ve already had our thanksgiving, but the years I haven’t been near any family and all my friends were out of town I experienced ZERO guilt about making myself just the stuffing and eating that by itself. It’s my favourite part of the meal.

          1. secondursula +7

            It’s my favorite part too! Maybe I will make some belated Thanksgiving stuffing this weekend. That will give me time to shop for as many types of mushrooms as I can find. And pecans. Or walnuts. Ahh, this will be fun!

      2. geekcrackteam +13

        Stuffing can very easily be made in small batched in a muffin tin and its brilliant. Go for it.

        1. houblonchouffe +24

          Stuffing can also be made in large batches and reheated in a waffle iron. You’re welcome.

        2. Ferdzy +3

          You can also make “Stuffing Bread” which is like garlic bread, only instead of putting garlic in the butter you put the poultry seasoning you would use in making stuffing, and a bit of gently sauteed shallot.

      3. notdarkyet_ +2

        Late, but every year I’m not with family for Thanksgiving I make just stuffing and pie, spiked hot cider or mulled wine, and watch Planes Trains and Automobiles. A+ works any day not just thanksgiving.

    2. insearchofmornings +1

      I’m in Scotland, so today is a normal day, but people have started asking what we’re doing for Christmas. “Seeing friends and dodging family” is my standard response so far. Actually, I’d love to spend Christmas day with the various friends who would also prefer to dodge their families, but none of them have cars, public transport is down, and taxis cost a bomb at that time of year.

  4. LadyPoopjokes +40

    Well, it’s snowing quite a lot, which means my boyfriend is out plowing it and I’m home alone with the cat and a substantial amount of spiked egg nog. We’ll probably do dinner tomorrow or something, but I’m actually really enjoying the blissful solitude and total lack of work to do or errands to run.

    ALSO the article I was writing/freaking out about for work turned out great and now I’m being showered with praise by my superiors, so that helps just a tad with my crippling impostor syndrome, and yeah, I guess things are turning out pretty great.

    1. LadyPoopjokes +25

      uggghhhh boyfriend came home earlier than expected and now he won’t stop talking to meeeee

      I just wanted a full day of absolute silence, is that so much to ask?

  5. swords-and-spindles +34

    Ah, Thanksgiving, where I can play two days of catch-up while our (predominantly) American customers stuff their faces instead of sending us e-mails and requests. Keep doing that, Americans!

  6. speakingofcake +37

    Open thread! Thank the goddesses. Non-American Toasties are staaaarving.

    While we’re here: I’m seeking advice for how to persuade people who are anti-choice but not evil that abortion access is a moral necessity in order for women to participate fully in society. It’s going to be an increasingly relevant issue where I am in the coming year and I want to amass good methods of communicating with people who currently oppose it but are not complete misogynists or hyper-religious or unreasonable in some other way. Stories, success or otherwise? Experiences? Thoughts? Please share!

    1. Scared_Vagina +14

      I used to live in Ireland and find that the recent stories in the press of stuff that’s happened there because of their ridiculous constitution (#repealthe8th!) are relatively unknown in the UK where I now live, and generally shock people into being like BUT HOW CAN THIS BE ALLOWED TO HAPPEN.

      But if you’re in Ireland this probably won’t work. I find that you can’t hope to change someone’s mind in one conversation. My ex was one of the people you describe when I met him, but over the course of, oh, 6 months of conversations (since it was and is a hot sociopolitical topic in the country it came up fairly often) I noticed every time we discussed it he’d come slightly more round to my way of thinking and even caught him using arguments I’d used against him when having those conversations with others. So yeah, depends on the person but sometimes patience actually pays.

      1. geekcrackteam +12

        I find that a lot of British people expect that kind of crap in the Republic, but a lot are shocked to discover that abortion is also illegal in the North (But that’s part of our civilized country they cry!)

      2. speakingofcake +16

        Yep, in Ireland. We’re inching slowly towards a referendum being called (hopefully). I’m glad your ex was open to reason. A lot of men who are unthinkingly anti-choice don’t fully understand the ramifications of the position they’re taking, it’s often a knee-jerk response motivated by a vague sense of ownership “but it’s my baby!” which is just an extension of the patriarchy’s insistence that women’s bodies are property. If the men in question are not inherently misogynistic, reasonable and decent, they can often be persuaded to see things more clearly and change their position.

        1. Scared_Vagina +11

          If a referendum is called I will find it hard not to spend all my salary flying over to campaign on the streets!

          Yeah he’s a stubborn ass about a lot of things but on this one he was a good egg. I’m quite proud of being instrumental in his feminist awakening.

          I guess one of the popular arguments (which I’m sure you’ll have heard if you live in Ireland and are not under a stone) is not about whether it’s moral but about the fact that people are doing it – between 10-15 women will have travelled to the UK today – so really shouldn’t we just stop pretending it’s not happening and just try to make it safe? And explain that delaying it because the woman needs to find funds/time to travel/order pills makes it much less safe.

        2. geekcrackteam +22

          It really annoys me when men take this position; Its my baby too, I should have a say! (How they make the jump from ‘I should have a say’ to ‘therefore abortion should be illegal’ I will never know.

          The decision to have an abortion is not taken lightly, and most women would be very open to discussing it with their partner, provided said partner is not a colossal prick.

          It just comes down to control, Men don’t like that women could make a decision and act on it without them and the Catholic Church wants women to keep having babies so that they’re too pre-occupied to get around to complaining or doing anything out of the home (Its hard to have an education or a career with 8 children and another one on the way for example.)

          And now I’m full of rage.

        3. geekcrackteam +6

          If a referendum is called in Ireland (Which for sure won’t happen until the next government) it is going to be a vicious and bloody battle. Gay marriage went through because it largley doesn’t affect anyone except the gays getting married and the wedding industry (who for sure pushed for a yes vote, gay people have a huge amount of disposable income to blow on weddings)

          There are people that fully believe that abortion is murder (vom.) and they are going to be the most vocal and will push illogical and emotive arguments; The yes side has logic and common sense on their side, but that doesn’t win referendums in Ireland.

          I missed the gay marriage vote, but if this referendum gets called I will have to seriously think about moving home so I can campaign and vote.

          1. speakingofcake +5

            Yes, I’m not looking forward to the public battles that will inevitable accompany a referendum 🙁

            I’m cautiously hopeful that the referendum, if called, will pass, based on the public’s recognition of the hypocrisy of outlawing it while women travel daily for abortions, and the impossible situations doctors are put in, and the torture inflicted on women with FFA. Unfortunately, the first round of legislation will probably only cover “good” abortions (risk to life, risk to health, rape etc) and the dominant rhetoric will still be ‘It’s a Bad Thing but sure we have to let it happen sometimes’. Whereas I (and plenty of other feminists) want to not only demand the right to abortion access, but clearly show that it is not a Bad Thing, and is in fact an essential part of women’s healthcare, and an important aspect of women’s autonomous, inalienable human rights. I wonder is there any chance of debate being that measured (probably not).

          2. geekcrackteam +4

            There already is legislation on ‘Good Abortions’, finally. Although its no where near enough.

            A straight yes or no vote in needed to change the 8th Amendment; Women will always be second class citizens in Ireland until this is removed. Then we can worry about legislation.

          3. speakingofcake +4

            Yes, good point. The eighth amendment is the most ridiculous thing. Private life does not belong in a state constitution.

          4. theowlofderision +6

            I think legal abortion will have a much harder time passing in any Irish referendum than same sex marriage did. The reason being is that it’s much harder to ‘sell’ abortion to morally conservative people, than it is to expand access to marriage, which can be construed as inherently conservative. It’s easier to persuade conservative and on-the-fence people ‘let the gays have the same normative, nominally stable relationship construct as the straights!’ than it is to get them thinking ‘hmm, more bodily autonomy for women would be nice’.

    2. geekcrackteam +23

      I wish I could find it (It might have been a comment on here in the last few days) but someone said that being Pro-Choice doesn’t have to mean you’re pro-abortion, it just means that you believe that everyone should be free to make their own choice based on their own personal beliefs instead of a government overlord making the choice for them

      1. speakingofcake +19

        Yes, I’ve heard that point before, and it’s a good one, but I do want to structure my argument from the start point that abortion is a social and moral good in and of itself. I know that approach won’t persuade everyone, and perhaps I should focus more on the approaches that can persuade the widest net amount of people, but it can too easily fall into the ‘abortion as necessary evil’ type logic, which I don’t subscribe to. Not to say that the ‘pro-choice doesn’t have to be pro-abortion’ isn’t a solid, decent argument – it is – but I am hoping (perhaps naively) to encourage people to recognise that abortion is a valid moral choice, not an unhappy or ‘had-no-other-option’ type choice.

        1. geekcrackteam +13

          Maybe try humanizing the women who have abortions? Talk to people about why a woman might not want to be pregnant (But avoid using inflammatory language so as to sneak under their defenses)?

          I completely understand where you’re coming from, I strongly believe that abortion should be safe, legal and private. However the people who are completely against abortion are usually against it because of religious rhetoric or emotive propaganda, so its hard to get past their emotional response, especially with a logical argument; however you might find a few who say their against it just because everyone else it, or that’s the only opinion they’ve ever been exposed to, so have never really thought about it much.

          Are you in Ireland? Cause there, although its changing, the only education about abortion given to young women is about how its bad and evil; but the most veracious anti-choice people are usually the old, white men, who are just cunts.

          1. speakingofcake +11

            Yes, in Ireland (however did you guess?? 🙂 Very true about the emotive nature of anti-choice rhetoric here. Humanising women who’ve had abortions is going a long way towards breaking down (some) of the stigma.

            The thing is, in my experience, when you do try and humanise the experience for those who haven’t thought of the woman’s humanity before, they’re still quick to jump on the “embryo-as-person” line of defence. That’s where I think having a clear moral case to make for abortion can be useful. I’m more than happy to engage directly with the thing itself, and explain as best I can why it’s not wrong. But the problem is, once you’ve started a conversation by appealing to emotions, there’s nothing to stop the other person equally appealing to emotions, as they talk in sincere but utterly misguided terms about the “baby”. I can’t help but feel that there’s a risk inherent in appealing to emotions to having them backfire on us – the fact that those who are anti-choice are wrong doesn’t mean they don’t ever have sincere emotions. I’m thinking especially about talking with anti-choice women (The virulently anti-choice men are, as you rightly put it, largely cunts, and insincere cunts to boot, not to mention immune to reason)

          2. geekcrackteam +3

            Ah sure, we can always spot one of our own 😉

            See I don’t know if there is a clear moral argument for abortion; sure you can talk about poverty rates, education levels of teen mothers, crime rates etc to show how it would be good for wider society, but in the end it is a personal decision and a very emotional one (I don’t think any women, no matter how pro-choice, has an abortion lightly. And anyone who brings up ‘women having abortions as contraception’ can fuck off and die.)

            I wish there was a logical or moral argument that you could throw at these people that would make them see sense, but I think a referendum would only be won by women telling their stories and talking about why they made their choice; Just like gay people, its hard to demonize someone when you know them personally.

            I was thinking of that video of the american anti-choice senator being asked why he thought women had abortions; and he said he didn’t know, he hadn’t really thought about it, but probably money and stress is a big factor (No shit.). Its getting people to see it from the other side that will get them to think differently about it. And part of that is avoiding the emotive language, if you could have a conversation with someone about abortion without saying abortion or rape or what ever they would probably think very differently (Like that study in the US that said 80% of men will admit to rape if you don’t describe it as rape, or something like that.)

            Anti-choice women are their own breed of crazy. And usually well past the age of having children themselves. Wagons.

          3. speakingofcake +8

            Very true, it is private and personal. In an ideal world it wouldn’t be up for public debate at all, but that would have to involve the public believing women are autonomous humans capable of making free choices. Imagine!

            Encouraging people to think differently might be the way to go all right. It certainly seems to be the most effective.

            Here’s to repealing the 8th!

          4. Unreadaethel +11

            Were Stephen Hawking/[famous world-improving person of your choice] to be in a mysterious accident that required him to be physically connected to my body, in order to use it as a life support system, and he would die without this, I would still not be legally required to offer my body as a life support system. I am not required to donate organs, blood, or plasma to others, even if my kidney was the only thing that could save them. Even when I die, if I’ve said I don’t want my organs used for either science or medical treatment, doctors can’t use my organs.

            The personhood (or lack thereof) of a fetus doesn’t change the right of the host parent to refuse to offer her own organs up as a life support system.

    3. ohsolivly +18

      I have no idea how effective this will actually be for you, given that opinions like this tend to be emotional and mired deeply in weird moral judgment, but I wish you luck!

      If I cannot find a way to leave the conversation, I try to change the way they are framing the question. People who are anti-choice seem to see the question as “Should we have abortion, yes or no?” but abortion has been around pretty much as long as childbearing has been around, so the question really is “Should we have safe, medically supervised abortions, where the life of the mother is not at risk, or should we have dangerous back-alley/coat hanger abortions where there is a very real chance that a woman will die?” Making abortion illegal does not make abortion go away, it makes abortion very, very dangerous. Having abortions in a doctor’s office makes them much safer, and also opens up the channels of communication around safe sex practices, and women’s health.

      For some people, the life of the woman won’t matter. It won’t be emotionally compelling to them that for many generations, women would risk dying because having a baby, for whatever reason, was too big a risk. The equation for them will be simple that baby > immoral woman. In those situations, it’s often better to look them in the eye, and change the subject. Neither one of you will change the other’s mind, and somebody will end up anger-crying.

      See also: “making same-sex marriage illegal does not make homosexuality go away”, “telling young people to abstain from sex until marriage does not make premarital sex go away”, “calling global warming a theory doesn’t mean it isn’t happening”, etc.

      Signed, an anger crier.

      1. speakingofcake +1

        Thank you for the feedback and advice! I too am an anger-crier at heart, but I’m getting better at demolishing bigots with a glass-sharp argument accompanied by a chilly stare. I’m not interested in bigots though, it’s the not-evil-but-wrong I want to engage with, so that’s where your advice about framing the argument in pragmatic terms will be very useful. Thanks 🙂

    4. stirringsofconsciousness +13

      How about the idea that safe, legal abortion access is necessary because it will happen no matter what, as it historically has, only unsafely and illegally?

      1. speakingofcake +7

        Yes, that’s a good one, but I still feel it errs on the ‘necessary evil’ line of argument (not saying you think that, but that others may perceive it that way)

        1. stirringsofconsciousness +9

          I see your response about trying to build it as a good in and of itself above, while my argument is more about recognizing the reality of it. Hmm. I don’t see abortion as a necessary ‘evil’ because in my religion (Judaism) it isn’t an evil, it’s just sometimes necessary — not all religions think a fetus is the same as a life, which can be an eye-opener for some. Aside from that, you may have already read this, but Katha Politt just wrote a book, Pro: Reclaiming Abortion Rights, which I haven’t read but may be what you’re thinking of!

          1. speakingofcake +13

            Ooh, that book sounds good, I’ll check it out.

            Funnily enough, I think the religious argument against abortion has become much more militant in recent years even within Catholicism and other religions that traditionally opposed it. Even some church fathers (I believe Augustine was one) accepted that an embryo is not equivalent to a person. It’s become much more central to a lot of people’s religious identity to be anti-choice. CoinciDentallY (not coincidentally) this has mirrored the rise in female equality and women’s confidence in demanding their rights.

          2. geekcrackteam +7

            In particular in Ireland I feel that the church is clinging on because they know that they’re dying; younger people are just not that religious anymore, and those that are spiritual are staying away from the self serving power hungry organizations like the Catholic church.

            And so the church is acting like a wounded animal, instead of changing with the times and accepting that they no longer have absolute control over people, they are clinging on to what power they still have and becoming even more vicious. And the older generations, who they still control, have become their foot shoulders, going out and ‘fighting the good fight’

          4. walteredwardgo +4

            Oh, it has; there’s an obscure bit of scripture and in the 70s/80s all of the US-right-wing-fundamentalist churches went from “this text means life begins at birth” to “this text means life begins at conception.”
            This article goes into more detail; http://valerietarico.com/2012/11/17/when-god-was-…
            It’s interesting because 1) Catholics aren’t known for being hot on scripture and already weren’t exactly keen on abortion (or contraception and 2) It kinda shows that the shift came into place entirely for political reasons and wanting to control women.

            I’m sorry I don’t have any good arguments that are pro-abortion. My best is; women are dying because restrictive anti-abortion laws are keeping doctors from being able to save their lives and in these cases the foetus is not going to survive.

            If you want to reduce the number of abortions? You could try increasing access to contraception, sex education and removing the stigma around single mothers as well as increasing the money that is available to raise a child and making adoption/foster care a more universally positive experience for children and parents. All of those things will reduce abortions; having it be illegal only reduces the number of women that survive.

    5. 30Litresof +12

      Google ‘abortion statistics in countries where it is illegal’ and take your pick. Basically, abortion happens whether it’s legal or not, and in a lot of countries where abortion is illegal, abortion rates are actually higher than where it is legal – I think this is because abortion being illegal goes hand in hand with lack of access to contraception etc. Anyway, where you don’t have legal abortion access, women still have abortions but they have unsafe abortions which may leave them infertile or kill them. So if a country restricts access to abortion, the net effect is not that fewer pregnancies are terminated, it’s that the same number or more pregnancies are terminated AND more women and girls die.

      There’s a really great quote I read a while ago and now can’t find, which was an American doctor talking about Roe vs. Wade. He said that when abortion was illegal, they would regularly, like several times a week, have young girls – children – and women coming into ER bleeding to death from unsafe abortions. Once abortion was legal, literally as soon as it became available, he stopped seeing those girls and never saw one ever again in the subsequent thirty years of his career.

      I find that’s usually the best argument against restricting access.

        1. 30Litresof +5

          It isn’t but definitely has the same effect, good call. But yeah, speakingofcake, it might be an idea to emphasise (as a social good in and of itself) stories of women who had abortions because it wasn’t right for them to have a baby at that time (too young, couldn’t support it etc.) who then went on to have families. I’ve read plenty of testimony from women saying they wouldn’t have the family they have now – or quality of life either – if they hadn’t had that abortion.

          This might also be a good one – someone writing about how she loves her mother and has no wish to die herself, but wishes her mother had had an abortion instead of having her http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/aug…

      4. isabelcooper +5

        Yep. I can understand wanting not to start with “necessary evil”, but I do think that anyone who calls themselves pro-life should have to sit down and watch Dirty Dancing, Cider House Rules, and that one Call the Midwife episode before they open their mouth about legality.

    6. MilesofMountain +36

      I’ve had some success arguing that it actually shouldn’t matter if a fetus counts as a “person”, as it’s entirely about the bodily autonomy of the mother. As a culture, we respect body autonomy (ok, let’s pretend we do) which is why donating blood, organs, or whatever is done strictly voluntarily and we’d be horrified by a law that said that if someone needed your kidney you’re legally obligated to give it to them. We wouldn’t even accept a law that mandated blood donation, even though you recover from that in a couple of hours and even if the recipient in need was your 2 year old child because we believe that it’s important to have that choice. Pregnancy is extreme organ donation in which a woman donates every organ in her body for 9 months, sometimes risking her life or experiencing side effects for the rest of her life as a result. Regardless of whether or not a person personally believes someone has a moral responsibility to donate organs/blood if it is needed, I doubt they want it to be legally required and if they aren’t currently a blood, bone marrow, and organ donor then it’s particularly hypocritical to expect women to be legally required to donate her whole body.

      2. speakingofcake +3

        This is a marvellous, compelling argument. Bodily autonomy is so multi faceted and fascinating. We’re still just scratching the surface, in the sense that the concept of women having bodily autonomy is still seen as radical in mainstream society.

      3. htflaherty +4

        Yep,this is my favorite argument. Another aspect I think is good to point out: it’s not even legal to take organs from a dead person unless they or their kin gave permission. So basically when we make abortion illegal,we are giving alive women less autonomy than literal corpses.

      4. neuromanticism +9

        We even give dead people bodily autonomy. You can’t grab an organ from a dead person unless they agreed while alive or their family says that they would have agreed, not even if a living person will die without the organ.

        1. geekcrackteam +3

          When it comes to pregnancy in Ireland not even dead women are free; last Christmas they kept a brain dead woman on life support (against her family’s wishes) because she was about 20 weeks pregnant (so not viable at all.) And there was still a fetal heartbeat.

          Even the doctors didn’t want to do it but the law is so murky on the subject that they could have faced 14 years in prison if they did the ‘wrong’ thing.

          Because the fetus has a constitutionally protected ‘right to life’ they had to go to court and let the lawyers sort it all out, the family got a lawyer, the woman got a lawyer, the fetus got a lawyer and the hospital got a lawyer.

          This went on for 2 or 3 weeks, over Christmas. The woman already had 2 children and a husband (plus parents) who all just wanted to be able to say good bye.

          I cant get the reference right now, but you’ll find it in Irish media easy enough

          1. DishKit

            When it comes to pregnancy in Ireland not even dead women are free

            This is horrifying. This entire thing is horrifying.

        2. MilesofMountain +6

          Good point! And even the “you gave consent to pregnancy by having sex” argument doesn’t hold up. I’m a registered bone marrow donor, but even literally signing up for it doesn’t trump my right to withold consent from it. Even up to the moment they begin the procedure, I can change my mind and say I don’t want to do it and not only won’t they make me, no one will make me go through counselling or a waiting period or look at photos of the person who needs my marrow or any of the regulatory hoops women have to jump through to get an abortion.

    7. Pola Negroni +15

      Not sure if this will help, but here in Mexico abortion is illegal in almost all states except for in the case of mother’s health. In order to have an abortion, one must go to a hospital with vaginal bleeding, at which point they’ll give you a D&C.
      Obviously, since women are always going to attempt to terminate unwanted pregnancies regardless of legality all this has done –aside from create women who cannot participate in the world force or growing economy because they’re scraping by trying to feed children they in many cases can’t afford– is create a thriving and completely unregulated black market for drugs and devices that will make a woman bleed so she can get her abortion. From little old ladies who grow the herb rue to bring on “delayed menstruation” to risky combinations of drugs usually involving methotrexate bought on the black market with questionable dosage and purity. Plus there are just the desperate women who use coat hangers or try to drink the baby out.

      I work within an indigenous community of field laborers and they live in astoundingly poor conditions: tarps for roofs and dirt floors, no running water or electricity. Education is key to upward mobility, and I’ve seen so many bright girls get pregnant at 12 or even younger and that’s it. They have to withdraw from school to take care of their family and the cycle of poverty continues.

      If this is of any use or if I could help you further, please let me know. It’s something I feel strongly about.

      1. speakingofcake +2

        Oh wow. Those stories are so distressing. It’s dreadful to think of the loss of human potential and even the lives of some of the women you speak of.

        What is the dominant cultural attitude to abortion in Mexico? Do different social classes have different opinions on it? Are there groups fighting for abortion rights, and if so, how are they received? Do such groups work with indigenous communities like the one you work with? What happens when the subject of abortion comes up at a family dinner?

        I’m very interested in hearing what the attitudes are in Mexico. I feel like in many ways it might be similar to Ireland. The main difference is ireland has a close neighbour where women who can afford it travel to get abortions when they need it. It sounds like women in Mexico do not have that option, hence the terrible health problems and deaths you describe

    8. spring chickens +27

      There was an article in the NY Times recently (I think it was The Stone, that philosophy blog they run?) on the fact that if you want to persuade people with a different belief, you have to connect your points to values they already hold — their values.

      This means you have to make not the arguments that convince you, but the arguments that would be appealing to them. Including possibly some arguments that you don’t especially like, or that you think are less important than the reasons you hold dear. According to them, people on the left tend to value fairness, including abstract fairness, so we make arguments about how [lack of abortion] unfairly restricts women. But that’s not especially appealing to conservatives.

      To resonate with their values, you might want to talk about how abortion lets people start families when they are ready and therefore build truly caring, loving, well-planned families that they can support and integrate into the community. That it builds social cohesion, instead of isolating single mothers and children and leading to social ills. That it is important for people who were raped or coerced into sex (i.e. who aren’t sinners — I know, ugh). That chemical abortion is basically advanced contraception that prevents an egg from being fertilized, not the end of a fetus. That abortion can be medically necessary, and that pregnancy carries major health risks for some women. Most of all they encouraged you to appeal to conservatives’ sense of social cohesion, patriotism, morality etc in your arguments — their values, not necessarily yours (or mine). It made sense to me.

      Good luck — thanks for fighting the good fight!

      1. geekcrackteam +10

        Yes this!

        Maybe try talking about the woman who already has children but can’t afford to feed them all, let alone another one; or who has a life threatening condition that means pregnancy could kill her and she doesn’t want to leave her children with out a mother (Jessica Valenti wrote a piece about this)

        Or the pain of having to give birth to a child you know is going to die, or keep going with a FFA pregnancy knowing that it could lead to a catastrophic miscarriage that would leave you unable to have more children.

        It’s all hyperbole, but you have to get them at their own game; appeal to emotions!

        1. speakingofcake +4

          I must check out the Jessica Valenti piece!

          The fact about more than half of women who’ve had abortions already being mothers is so important. It’s already been of use to me when faced with a woman who announced that since having a child she was in favour of rolling back abortion term limits to unworkable levels because pregnancy had changed her views. Ehh yes, it changed YOUR views, it didn’t magically give you the right to force your views on other people’s bodies. I seem to have encountered a disturbing number of anti-choice women in my life 🙁

          1. geekcrackteam +1

            JV can be a bit of a straw feminist, and her pieces are mostly a click bait headline and no substance, but this piece was very good!

      2. ballisticjaguar +12

        I like this answer very much. I have parents who are a milder (milder in that, they keep these beliefs to themselves and generally do not foist them onto people who do not want them) version of the creationist/anti-choice Christian type character that appears in stories about America, but they still very much believe the Earth was created in seven days, abortion is bad, etc. I believed these things as well until the age of 20 or so (I went to university) and having been on both sides of this argument, the thing I have noticed about both sides is that they argue past each other. They do exactly as you said, they make arguments that they find convincing, that is based in their own values rather than the values of the person they are attempting to convince.

        I have lately been struggling with the differing views my parents have and of how to argue with them effectively on this topic (as mentioned I reached the idea that I needed to argue on their terms, but have yet to find an argument that works as such) and I think your answer will be very helpful to me.

      3. bird_internet +10

        Yes yes yes. I work in political communications and here’s the terrible truth: the arguments that are most meaningful and convincing to you are worthless when you’re trying to reach across the aisle. Forget your deeply held moral beliefs, forget your statistics, and make the argument that appeals to someone else, no matter what YOU think of that argument. Otherwise all you’re doing is expressing yourself into the void.

        1. speakingofcake +7

          That’s really fascinating. I can actually see in day to day life how appealing to the other’s values, even when they’re bullshit values, is a more effective tactics . Good advice, thank you!

      5. citystillbreath +2

        By chemical abortion, do you mean misoprostol etc? Because it’s important to understand that “the abortion pill” does essentially cause a miscarriage, eg, a pregnancy with a fertilized egg will be ended. Not quite the same as emergency contraception. If you’re gonna be brave enough to talk to the anti choice folks, might as well be quite accurate. However, I love your points on trying to resonate with their values!

    9. EmpressofBland +7

      I don’t know whether this helps, but a while back on Jezebel (I KNOW, but they have good stuff sometimes) this article about the history of abortion drugs appeared, and it talks quite a bit about the historical development of the Church’s position about when a foetus becomes a person. http://jezebel.com/the-history-of-abortifacients-…

      As a lawyer and person who is horrified at the very idea of having another being incubate inside me, my view (and one that is sometimes successful) is that, if another person was inflicting horrific damage on your health (which let’s face it, happens in even the most benign and welcome of pregnancies), you’d be entitled to take steps to defend yourself. So even if you think that a foetus is a person, that doesn’t mean “killing” it is necessarily indefensible. It’s not strictly a legal argument because the law of self-defence is more nuanced than that (I don’t practise criminal law but I know enough to know it’s not that simple), but it’s an alternative perspective on the women’s-bodily-autonomy line of argument. (Which I know should be the ONLY LINE OF ARGUMENT. But we all know it isn’t.)

  7. threatqualitypress +36

    Friends, against my strong objections, my wife and I are having Thanksgiving here at our house, which is too small for the surfeit of in-laws who will descend upon us. ALL THINGS CONSIDERED, I am grateful to have extended family whose only sin is being a little too dull, but on the other hand, Thanksgiving is one of my least favorite holidays because we end up doing a lot of preparatory work just for me to be bored out of my mind for four hours.

    1. threatqualitypress +33

      Furthermore, all of my suggestions that Thanksgiving be replaced by a series of contests like footraces and javelin-throwing, after the fashion of the Ancient Greeks, have been rejected.

        1. threatqualitypress +19

          they don’t want to do ANYTHING

          I have an archery list set up in the backyard and everything!

          2. secondursula +69

            Ugh, relatives: can’t live with them, can’t force them to tourney for one’s amusement.

      2. spring chickens +5

        That sounds perfect, argh, wish we could have competitive inter-family footraces and javelin throwing with your family now that I am in Greater Philadelphia and celebrating here. I would send all the under-12s over, especially the little boys who are lolling around eating apple peels and not helping prepare! My sibling’s in-laws will be there, and they are not just decently dull but two elderly members have dementia and some younger ones have Tea Party views (one of them has organized an especially hateful Tea Party branch in her DC neighborhood) so my sibling and I are amassing all the board games you can imagine as well as all the jokes for deflecting any political comments. I honestly just don’t want to know some of their political opinions to make it easier to feel congenial towards them while in their presence for my poor sibling’s sake; family harmony and all that! I have never celebrated a holiday with them before — it will be an adventure.

      1. threatqualitypress +16

        oh man unfortunately I quit drinking two years ago

        (I say unfortunately, but really this is fortunate — it is much better that I stopped drinking; UNfortunately, now is a really good time to be drinking)

        1. secondursula +11

          Sorry if this is the wrong place, but major hi-five on joining team not drinking. My father quit drinking over a decade ago, and it has been so wonderful for him and our whole family. Huzzah!

          1. threatqualitypress +21

            It was definitely the right choice for me.  My problem was not as bad as many other people’s, but it was still a problem and I am still better for having quit.

            HUZZAH INDEED

      2. secondursula +11

        I don’t have a recipe, but I just discovered the very awesome friend to mulled wine: mulled cider. In times of need, a shot of brandy can also be added.

        1. walrathem +4

          That’s what we do at my house – it pays to get the high-quality apple juice. So good and the house smells festive!

        2. Thujaplicata +2

          I took mulled cider in a crock pot to the Thanksgiving I attended. It was quite popular. I believe some people might have added bourbon to their mugs.

  8. PRockette +26

    Send help! I can’t stop watching the new Captain America trailer because Chris Evans’s perfect face.

    1. tigrrmilk +4

      can’t believe i haven’t watched it yet today. think i need to go home and immediately remedy this.

    2. deleted7410012 +24

      yoooooo

      (and sebastian stan’s face. and chris evans’ face when he touches sebastian stan’s shoulder, and then the face that sebastian stan makes back.)

      1. PRockette +26

        I didn’t watch Winter Solider and I’m not on Tumblr. I was unaware of #stucky. So I’m watching the trailer and I’m like “There’s a — vibe here. Lingering looks, etc. What is going on?” And then the internet cleared that up for me.

        1. deleted7410012 +17

          haha yes. and whether you go for a romantic or platonic interpretation of their relationship, it’s heartbreaking either way. steve will pretty much burn down/beat up/give up anything for buckyyyy.

          1. saraallain +20

            This may not be for everyone* but Comics Alliance has a post on the gayest Stucky moments in the trailer – which is followed up by a commentary on representation in movies and concludes with the sentence, “This movie looks about as gay as it’s allowed to be. One day we’ll get a movie like it that’s actually gay enough.” It is a pretty good read! There are also gifs.

            *That’s a lie, it’s for everyone.

        2. halloweenjack64 +1

          It was really interesting to see that character evolve, from originally being a Robinesque kid sidekick (who, oddly, would waltz through battles against Nazis armed with machine guns usually without any sort of weapons or armor whatsoever, although he’d occasionally be shown with a gun, as would Cap) who was revealed to have died when Captain America was brought back in the Avengers in the early sixties, to a teenaged black-ops commando who didn’t die but became the Winter Soldier (a revision by comics writer Ed Brubaker several years ago) to adult Sergeant Barnes for whom Steve Rogers was originally a sort of sidekick (albeit same aged) before he got the super-soldier formula. And then, of course, the shipping post-Winter Soldier.

    3. aiquale +18

      Every time I think I’m off the Chris Evans train, a new Captain America movie comes out and I’m all – STEVE ROGERS 4 LYFE again!

  9. alliana07 +28

    Just a couple years ago I was dragging myself out of bed at 9am, wrapped in a blanket and blinking blearily at the Macy’s Parade on Thanksgiving. This year I woke up at 8am ON MY OWN with no alarm, and had time to make a full breakfast to eat while watching the parade fully awake. Is this being 30? Am I finally an adult when it comes to waking up??? Amazing.

    (Also, two more hours before Thanksgiving at my Aunt’s house with my racist, sexist, Trump-supporting cousins. This year instead of ignoring, I’m gonna try some STERN LOOKS and pointed remarks a la AAM’s suggestions in that Buzzfeed article. But still. SEND HAPPY THOUGHTS, gah.)

    2. LadyPoopjokes +5

      I have abruptly, against my will become a morning person in the last year or so and it is SO PERPLEXING

    2. PonyAlong +2

      I love your wee beasty photos (and large beasties, too!). I think I’ve asked you before, but how do you upload these?

      1. Es_Petal +1

        Most of the online places have ‘share’ buttons that do it for you – the easiest way is to stick them onto photobucket and copy/paste the URL in the ‘share’ box. They do have to be online somewhere else and linked rather than uploaded directly here.

    3. eleventysix +5

      i never knew that what i needed in my life was a picture of sir ian with a kitten.
      but thank you.

  12. lrljhnsn +10

    lots of feelings happening this morning! there was a fire at the house across the street from me. everyone seems to be fine. the house is still standing but it doesn’t seem fine, it seems damaged.

    my cat always wanders at night and comes home before dawn. he has not come back. perhaps he was spooked by the fire engine. there is NO CONCEIVABLE WAY he was somehow in/near the house fire, right?(!?!?!?!)

    and finally, the boy i like, he is very nice to me, and was very nice to drunk-me via text last night. so, a real mixed bag for a very busy day.

      1. majoseh +3

        Yes, he was spooked! Commenting here to offer sympathy and also to get a notification when he turns up, please let us know! I bet he is fine.

        1. lrljhnsn +4

          i will update when he returns, thank you so much! no sign yet, and i gotta go away to my family’s house/out of town for dinner, but a couple friends are going to come by and check for him later.

          i know spooked is the most likely thing, but he is kind of a fearless teenager which makes me doubt it a little. here’s hoping he isn’t as fearless as i think and is camped out somewhere.

          1. knittingBAMF +3

            He probably saw all of the commotion and decided to complete his Important Cat Things somewhere quieter. And then he realized you were home and that he missed you.

    2. MilesofMountain +6

      My cat hides under the bookshelf for almost an hour every time the doorbell rings, so I think it’s very likely yours is just spooked and hiding out and will be back soon.

  13. tigrrmilk +11

    heads up for those of you who are into comics — comixology have got some really big ~black friday~ (ugh) sales on for image and dark horse stuff.

    the first two volumes of shutter are both half off, which is my favourite comic about… actually it’s impossible to explain what it’s about but it has lots of women and also lots of animals who spend their time swearing at each other and fighting each other. and murder. and loads of weird fantasy/adventure stuff.

    have any of you read any good comics recently??

    1. saraallain +4

      I (shamefully) just got into Bitch Planet like last week. It’s so good! And I picked up Lumberjanes at the same time so my life is full of boss lady-types living their lives and kicking ass.

      Other than that, I’ve taken my first foray into classic comics with some old X-Men and X-Factor. It’s really fun to learn more about characters I only know because of the movies.

      2. Crivens +1

        Non-compliant for ever! My husband brought home Bitch Planet from the comic book store for me. Love it!💗

    2. calesvol +4

      i only recently got into fables because i have a weird habit of only getting into things when they’re over, but then i read about 80 issues of it in a couple of days so i think i should say that it’s, you know, pretty okay. (i love it. i love it and I’m crying so much.)

      i’m way behind on the wicked and the divine, but i’ve read the first two volumes and they’re incredible.

      also seconding lumberjanes! i’ve only read the first few issues but it was really good!!

  14. Merripat +12

    I just watched Episode 7 of Jessica Jones and I’m actually feeling sick right now. The other episodes are hard to watch as well, but this is the first one that really got to me.

    1. Es_Petal +4

      My FB status last night was ‘goodness, Jessica Jones is getting hard to watch’. I’ve got two left so I think I’ve seen up to 11?

      1. Merripat +2

        Oh no, I somehow thought there were only ten episodes! This means it will go on even longer. I mean, I like this show and I really want to finish it, but I don’t know how much more I can take. Good thing I didn’t wait until bedtime but watched this episode in the afternoon.

          1. Merripat +5

            I’m on episode 9 right now and I CANNOT get over the fact that Kilgrave’s given name is Kevin. It’s a perfectly fine name in an English context, but here in Germany the name is somewhat associated with “problematic children”/low income families. That this association exists is terrible, but the name nevertheless is somehow making the show a bit lighter for me, because the discrepancy between Kilgrave and “Kevin” couldn’t be bigger.

    2. goonerkate +5

      It is some seriously dark stuff. It’s really good, but man. Binging on it is not the best plan. (But I only have four episodes left and I really want to finish it, too.)

    3. grumblyqueer +3

      I’m fine with the punching and the gore and the blowings-up, but I just noped straight out of the CSF-drawing scenes. That shit’s terrifying.

    4. Angelan_ +3

      it takes me like an hour and a half to watch each episode ’cause I have to keep pausing it to calm down. It may be Too Scary for me, to be honest. I’m only on like episode 3.

      1. Merripat +6

        I just came back from my yoga class and am feeling much calmer. On absolutely no account will I risk this by watching another episode tonight.

        1. Es_Petal +2

          Wise choice. My gentleman caller is out this evening so we are booked for the last two tomorrow night.

      2. Merripat +3

        Gosh, I just watched it and it was absolutely terrible. I had to scream in my blanket. Now I’m off to YouTube to watch some kittens to calm down.

    6. Kuluvi +7

      I’m right there with you, episode 7 freaked me OUT beyond the level of the preceding episodes! I sat for a good 5 minutes after it finished just to stop shaking, then spent the next half hour doing anything else before committing to watching episode 8. It is so rare for me to crack like that I love this show I hate this show I love this show I hate this show

    7. isabelmosqueira +4

      I’m on the middle of episode 9 and all I need is a little tiny victory for Jessica. I thought she had one, but I’m sure that by the time the episode ends everything is going to be worse than before. That’s why I can’t watch anything besides comedy.

    8. calesvol +6

      oh man i was going to watch it but someone watched it before me and wrote up a list of trigger warnings? so i’m… going to give it a miss. mental health, priorities, all that. i’ve been told it’s very hard to watch, so lots of <3 from me to everyone watching it.

  15. grumblyqueer +53

    Friends, I am having the BEST break. My mom checked out a book for me that I’d been planning to read but never mentioned to her, I got back to work in an actual kitchen, and then my folks both sort of wandered in while I was using Hamilton as baking music, and we listened to the soundtrack together.

    (I always forget my ten-thousand-baseball-cap-owning, serial-sports-predictor Dad is also a theater buff. I tried to turn the soundtrack off, because he was watching the game, and then I heard from the couch: “No more Hamilton music?”)

  16. elaine__benes +61

    I really like the coziness of the holidays! but one rly weird thing I can’t take is how in some families it’s super normal after the meal for all the women to like get up and start cleaning immediately while the dudes watch football/pick their teeth. This isn’t really a thing in my family, but we are on our way to husband’s fam for turkey dinner and I’m cringing anticipating it. If I don’t participate in women’s cleaning time I look oddly lazy/strange, but if I do I start getting a small rage headache in my forehead thinking about the dudes just Sitting there all happy with themselves being like touchdown offsides extra point sportsball.

    1. Dangerfield5 +43

      Does your husband agree this is gross? I feel that, as the owner of the family and one of the men in question, the onus really should be on him to say, “Look, other dudes, we need to help.”

    2. bookwormV +17

      That is weird. My boyfriend’s family are like that – not specifically with holidays, but whenever I visit his mum is the one doing all of the cooking/cleaning up while his dad does nothing, and it fills me with rage. (I offer to help sometimes, but as I am a woman too it feels like I am not doing much to smash the patriarchy. My boyfriend does too, though, which is better.)

    3. popelizbet +10

      The men & boys are all watching football. It will be acceptable for me to ask the children to carry butter dishes and drinks and Dad helps drain the turkey, but otherwise the women are doing the work.

      1. popelizbet +15

        The BIL & nephews are helping with dishes while I rest after clearing the table. It’s a Thanksgiving miracle.

        1. Roisindubh211 +2

          Yeah my family does “women cook, men clear” and it works for most. We did once tie Great Grandma’s apron to her chair to stop her taking over because “the men don’t do it right “

          1. bookwormV +1

            At Christmas my parents (mainly my dad) do the cooking and my siblings and I are tasked with clearing up. It works quite well.

    4. PonyAlong +21

      As a young child, this “ladies be cleaning up the kitchen, on the double chop, chop” irked me no end and consequently, I refused to help out, much to the consternation of my older cousin (IT’S EXPECTED!) and my mother’s embarrassment. To this day, I’ll help out by clearing the table or something similar but slaving away in dirty dishwater while the menz sit on their asses and throw down scotch after scotch? Nope, nope, nope. Now, I am An Old With Opinions and as such, I will tell you to get off the couch and lend a hand, pronto.

      1. walrathem +16

        You can tell the nephews they have to help – if they live at home they owe their mother their labor.

          1. walrathem +19

            Good for her and good for them. That’s how we get rid of that ridiculous tradition. By having the younger generation be too embarrassed to continue it.

    5. dorianneemmerton +8

      My Dad is responsible for clearing the table, including putting the food away. But then he watched TV while my mom does the dishes, and that irritates me. But he does also help with the cooking. I have definitely been at holdiay dinners at partners’ places where the women did all the cooking and then all the cleaning afterwards and I can’t stand it. And I am so not good at playing nice and holding my tongue about it.

    6. walrathem +9

      That’s tough, maybe your husband can take your place in the cleanup jobs and you can sort of try guilt ripping the other dudes into doing the same? You can say something like you don’t want any son of yours to think that he’s not even capable of helping out with the cleanup if he can’t cook or something equally pointed. I realized that this would only work in my imagination. It what a wonderful dream it is.

    7. spring chickens +23

      My brother’s in-laws do that (one of them even makes loud comments about how that’s how it’s gotta be or whatever), and my sweet brother’s response lately has been to just get up immediately and start clearing dishes himself when it is said, because he doesn’t want his kids to think that’s right. My brother is the dearest!

      I’m celebrating with them all for the first time, so it’s going to be a challenge for me too. If anyone calls it women’s work, I am going to belly laugh and say, “you’re such a joker, Person X!”. If I am feeling really bold, I might say, “ha ha ha, thank you for volunteering to take this in to the kitchen for me” with a really warm and genuine smile, as if I obliviously can’t believe he meant it as anything but a joke. That, or I might immediately enlist my nephew to help me, saying, “Uncle D is such a silly joker, here, let’s do this together little nephew.”

      It’s so not okay, especially in front of the kids, but I also don’t want to create any unpleasantness as the outsider. Such a tricky balance. I think having a plan ahead of time can help. Do you have a plan? (More ideas are always good!)

  17. jimmyjimjimjim +8

    Today is going to suck. I woke up yesterday at midnight, did an 8 hour shift 2-10:30am, then decided to just stay awake until today work midnight-3am come home sleep the sleep of the dead and then go to work 7pm-midnight. It all went according to plan except instead of sleeping 8 hours when I got home, I slept 3 and now I can’t get back to sleep.

  18. bighairnoheart +24

    I love all the commercials in the parade for the National Dog Show. For some reason I agreed to dog sit through Friday. Seven dogs. Mostly standard poodles. I am living the National Dog Show right now. So many puppies.

    But food later. Thank goodness for that. All that I’m required to bring is the champagne.

    1. goonerkate +4

      Dog sitting seven dogs sounds amazing! But that might just be because I’m missing my own dogs right now (my family has six sheepdogs).

      1. bighairnoheart +5

        With the exception of the neurotic bouvier des flandres, it’s pretty good. But so many big dogs. So many. I’m used to my travel sized beagle/coonhound mix.

  19. jimmyjimjimjim +24

    Also look I realize that because it was made by white people and it happened before most of us gave a shit arena rock from the 70s-80s is some how seen as a inoffensive universal choice for work music… I get that. Pandora does not need to play Sweet Home Alabama every 35 minutes though, even ignoring the horrifying lyrical content, that is too often.

    1. BeetleBlack +8

      I’ve grown to hate that song, due to repetition, but not as much as I hate Bon Jovi’s hits, and most of all… Wagon Wheel. I once lived next door to some people that would play it multiple times a day, every day, for two months. Now every time I hear that song I automatically become enraged.

    3. thebellewitch +14

      Due to Spotify playing this song on their inexplicable “Home for the Holidays” mix this morning, I actually looked up why Lynyrd Skynrd was mad at Neil Young. Dude! It does not reflect well on Lynyrd Skynrd.

    4. Xolandra +2

      Sod Pandora, explore Bandcamp.com. It won’t automatically give you a feed of things you might like, but it will probably be a much more rewarding experience. And it will be totally Skynnard free.

      1. jimmyjimjimjim +3

        It’s what the bosses pipe in. It alternates between what I assume is the Pandora “Sounds like Katy Perry/Rhianna” station and “Classic Rock” station.

        1. Xolandra +9

          Noooooooooooooooooooo! Tyranny!

          Honestly, the worst part of retail/restaurant work was being forced to listed to other ppl’s soundtracks. I’m not in love with my desk job, but getting to pick my own music and getting to use my headphones (thus legitimately ignoring all colleagues who have not the temerity to touch me) is one of the best parts.

        2. tinypaperme +2

          Do you work at my dentist’s office? Because their music is those two stations plus one called “The Most Fucking Annoying Music Ever,” which includes obscure 70s songs with very long, very repetitive choruses and/or bridges. All played waaay too loud. Last time I was there I thought I was going to have a massive panic attack.

          1. jimmyjimjimjim +1

            I will preface this by saying that I don’t actually mind (and actively enjoy ~20% of) “Sounds Like Katy Perry/Rhianna” and “Classic Rock” but I do find it extremely frustrating that these are the two styles of noise that are some how considered Universally Acceptable.

            Aretha Franklin, Diana Ross, Loretta Lynn, Dolly Parton are all for some reason less acceptable than Flo Rida or Skynyrd!

  20. Merripat +5

    Also – despite the fact that the internet is so slow and boring today, I have accomplished absolutely nothing today except cycling across town* and through the rain to get to the dentist. And I didn’t even manage to get there on time.

    *This means 15 min which I realize is not much, but it is a lot of time considering that I get to almost every other important place within 5 min of cycling.

    1. Strophoria +2

      Cycling! So fun, even for 15 minutes. I got to bike across town today too – it took me substantially longer but it was so enjoyable. I got out my winter bike this week, getting used to the new balance and weight is an adventure

  21. goonerkate +20

    Happy Thanksgiving, all! I was supposed to be across the country celebrating with my (mostly lovely but also unfortunately super right wing) family right now, before going to Disneyworld with my sister and her adorable kids next week. But then I got a job after six months of unemployment. So now I’m alone in my new apartment, which has no furniture, cable, or internet, and my only plan for the holiday is drinking cheap wine, watching Jessica Jones on my phone, and hoping there’s an Indian restaurant that will deliver tonight. I literally don’t know how to feel. Half of those things suck, but half of them are really nice? It’s certainly a weird holiday this year.

    Also, can we have a Jessica Jones thread, or is it too soon?

    1. spring chickens +7

      Surely it’s that feeling of FREEDOM, and new beginnings, which are always a little bittersweet but exciting?

      Also I hope you get to have a phone call or do some Skyping with your family during the dinner — that usually feels really nice. And have some delicious food all your own, even if it’s not trad — wine and Indian sounds delicious!

    2. LadyPoopjokes +4

      Yes! Wallow in the peaceful solitude and the knowledge that you are newly employed but not yet working, that is the best feeling! Looking for work is The Worst and you beat it!

  22. aiquale +38

    TERRIBLE RELATIVE/FAMILY FRIEND VENTING THREAD

    My family is celebrating Thanksgiving in conjunction with several other families this year, about 95% of whom are super conservative Republicans, with one or two whose views are especially repugnant, especially when alcohol is involved.

    I also just found out yesterday that one of the more liberal members is bringing a male friend who happens to be a practicing Syrian Muslim. So, this should get reeeeeal interesting around 4 or 5pm.

    Sooooooo, stay tuned for more pleasegoddontletthisgoasbadlyasIthinkitwill developments. . .

    1. geekcrackteam +24

      Ooooh shit.

      This is definitely a thing that requires live tweeting. Or at least regular Toast updates.

      We can crowd source comebacks for you to destroy any assholes that raise their heads!

      1. aiquale +13

        Yesssssssss. Definitely will be live-tweeting this. For SURE.

        Anyone who wants to follow along, my Twitter handle is: @bookishbroad

        The tweeting shall commence at 4pm CMT!

        1. walrathem +6

          I feel like I should Offer Up my spare patience since I’m lucky enough to have a pretty low-stress holiday today. If you need it. It’s yours. I ab it that my optimistic side thinks this will be good for the republicans- once y put a face and a voice on someone it’s hard to be afraid of them.

          1. aiquale +3

            Aw, thanks! Between my brothers and the potential situation tonight, I will certainly need all the patience I can get!

    2. spring chickens +8

      Whoa. Please come back to vent more on this thread if you like!

      We have nothing quite so combustible, but I am the lefty foreign-ish outsider at my brother’s Thanksgiving with his in-laws this year, and they are all very shy people one of whom organizes a Tea Party branch. Also the two great-grandparents in attendance have different forms of dementia, and one of them loves to tell the same stories about his rural boyhood that sometimes involve racist commentary. 🙁 But he has dementia so it is not like you can realistically engage him on that. Also they have very rigid and weird holiday traditions we will have to follow including hours of photograph taking. It will be less complicated than yours, but I would still appreciate any solidarity real-time posting you are up for!

      On a perhaps helpful note: my brother is building a big fire outside in his fire pit so that people can wander out there when the scene indoors is too much for any reason, and there are different spaces to be in and take a break despite the large numbers of people. Something like that might help for your family too — a place for people to just take a break for a little bit.

      1. aiquale +6

        I will definitely be on here for some solidarity venting!

        While I’m still at home, I’ll be able to take breaks from my brothers’ baiting comments, but once we go to the place where we’re having dinner, there will be no escape!

        Although, I do think tweeting about it will give me some mental distance from the situation, which should help!

  23. Scared_Vagina +28

    This evening after work I (British) am going for Thanksgiving dinner at my friend’s house, with:
    My British friend and her American husband (in honour of whom we are having said dinner); their friends, a brother and sister who are half French, half South African, and the brother’s boyfriend who is Israeli.
    So we have one who doesn’t eat pork, one who doesn’t eat beef, one who doesn’t eat gluten, and three of us who don’t care. It’s gonna be real traditional.

  24. Invisible_Kiwi +8

    Hello! I am sort of stressed right now, and I have so much not-fun stuff to do before Christmas that it seems simultaneously alarmingly close, and impossibly far away. Also it seems like it’s dark all the time, and that’s only going to get worse for the next month, ugh

    1. sfbeee +7

      citrus! and creating tiny things to look forward to (ie, on saturday, i will let myself purchase that $10 burrito that always makes me happy)! and podcasts for commuting!

    2. shucksmahoney +3

      It’s tough, and acknowledge that it’s tough (I learned this from an Oprah episode on ‘acknowledging the difficult’ and damn if it’s not been handy advice). And like sfbeee says, lots of little rewards and taking the time to enjoy them and sometimes peace the fuck outing when things are overwhelming.

      (Er, typed this and realised I was channeling my inner Auntie Mum and you may just want to vent and not be hammered with advice. Sending love and glitter your way )

        1. Es_Petal +2

          I really want the unicorn night light but I already have a hattifattener one. I have tried but none of my acquaintances with small children want it.

    2. PonyAlong +7

      This is why I love you guys: cool shopping sites! And for something in a North American vein, try Archie McPhee’s (sorry I can’t link, I’m technology stunted) based out of Seattle, Washington. They got lots of funky stuff, too.

      1. Heathered +3

        Now I understand why we are simpatico! Archie McPhee forever, for every holiday and also the days in between.

  26. bellmaison +9

    I’m really looking forward to my friendsgiving later on today (yay for no pressure from family to drive 16 hours to join them for one dinner!), but mostly I’m working on my qualifying paper because sometime in the last two years I completely forgot how to do statistics. And one of my committee members (who was ALSO MY STATS PROFESSOR) was basically like, “Yeah, you forgot how to statistics. Try again.” But in like a nice way? But anyway, that’s what I’m doing this weekend. In between cooking and eating and reheating and eating etc etc.

  27. littlehuntingcreek +16

    Happy thanksgiving! The mini pumpkin pies,the Black Forest Trifle, and the Apple cranberry tart are finished and ready to take to my sister’s house.
    It’s a beautiful day in Virginia. I hope you all have a wonderful day. I am thankful for you and the Toast.

  28. sfbeee +12

    am very enthusiastic about purchasing christmas/new years presents for friends AND i make very little money AND i’m trying to save for a trip AND i still wish to get my sister an engagement present… all of which means i am having (incredibly privileged, not-real) angst about money. but i just want to buy everyone books! how can that be irresponsible?!

  29. aqueousmedium +16

    Happy Thanksgiving, American Toasts! I hope you’re all safe and comfortable and happy, whatever you’re doing today.

    I’m reading Margaret Trudeau’s new book The Time Of Your Life, which I guess is technically a self-help book for women over 50? She is such a kind, thoughtful writer, and even though I’m not quite in that age range yet I wish I’d started thinking and planning in the ways she discusses ten years ago. Her insight is lovely and clear-headed. What is everyone else reading?

  30. Sean_Sullivan +75

    I’ve been fooling around with random text generation, and I thought some Toasties might be interested in the Jacobean Play Generator I cooked up:

    1. Sean_Sullivan +26

      The results can be fed into a more ambitious generator which simulates a European walking tour conducted by a glib and digressive docent:

      1. dameacademyalumna +9

        But what was the ironic twist about the manor where the Emperor lost an eye in a wild dog attack?

        1. Sean_Sullivan +2

          Unfortunately, I didn’t save that round, and I can no longer quite remember the twist. Either it was “the place where the Dowager Viscountess retired to a life of contemplation” or “the place where the Duchess signed the capitulation which ended the Fourth Border Rebellion of 1378.” Something like that. (The docent has a strange conception of irony.)

  31. Es_Petal +30

    I have just paid the balance on my holiday to Iceland in March, so it’s definitely happening now! I am super excited, I last went in 2004 and have been wanting to go back pretty much since the plane landed to take me home.

    1. silverandsnow +3

      I visited Iceland in 2009 and yup, have wanted to go back ever since. What a gorgeous, interesting country!

    2. dorianneemmerton +3

      I just went in September! I took my parents for their 40th anniversary. It’s so beautiful, and all that geothermal shit is sooo cool, and the people are lovely and funny, and boy do they party on weekends.

  32. BeetleBlack +14

    Happy Thanksgiving to the people that celebrate it! My partner is going off to see his giant extended family, and I have the house to myself.
    So this is shameless self promotion, but also I just want someone other than my boyfriend to read it because I’m very proud of it — I’ve been getting annoyed at the book selection in my local library (why can’t there just be a hundred different variations of Terry Pratchett and Shirley Jackson?) so I wrote a parody book post! Here is the link: http://weepingandteeth.tumblr.com/post/1339723119…
    I hope it’s funny to somebody out there who is not me.
    I even had illustrations for them, but I don’t have a scanner, so maybe later one day.

      1. BeetleBlack +2

        Thanks! I absolutely will.

        I love your blog! I actually saw you post a link to it somewhere on here a few months ago and read through all the old entries in one go. But I’ve forgotten to keep up on the newer ones, so this is about to be some awesome couch potato reading time.

  33. turanga_leela +34

    I love Thanksgiving because it is just about family and food. I am most thankful for the fact that I have a great family with very little drama, which I know is something not everyone can say.

    Happy Thanksgiving!

  34. ppyajunebug +60

    Happy Thanksgiving to all my wonderful friends and Toasties!!! I am home and finally relaxed and also covered in puppies.

    I am very deeply grateful for the incredible community here. It’s been a brutal few months and I don’t think I could have made it through without everyone here and having The Toast as a safe haven for laughs and friendship.

  35. LacaunaKale +39

    Happy Alonesgiving. I was pretty bummed about my lack of family that gives a shit earlier, but I’m pretty okay now. I played a couple hours of Fallout (the end of the world has not changed the T much), and am now watching the dog show. Later, stuffing waffles. I am not getting out of my pajamas at all today.

    2. spring chickens +4

      That sounds like the perfect restful anti-holiday Thanksgiving! It’s also a nice day for a walk — the streets are eerily quiet and at least here the sun is shining. Wishing you a serene and happy day!

    3. happysadcat +4

      I’m having Alonesgiving as well. As alone as you can be with a large four-footed family plus extremely sassy hens. Hurray to no uncomfortable foundation garments and shambling around in slippers!

    4. RunGracieRun +2

      Happy Alonesgiving! I actually turned down a Friendsgiving invite because I needed some serious alone time. I only left the house yesterday to go feed my BFF’s cats. The rest of the day was listening to the Thanksgiving programming on NPR, puttering around the house, making myself a series of yummy snacks, and waiting until it was not too ridiculously early for a glass of wine. Tomorrow is a big party some friends throw every year — Lutherfest (google “The Luther”) so I won’t be a COMPLETE hermit this weekend.

  36. PRockette +5

    I’ve been listening to Owen Pallett’s The Riverbed over and over recently. What song are you obsessed with right now?

    1. otrivianewtonjohn +5

      It’s not ACTUALLY a single song, but I’ve had the entire Boys for Pele album on loop nonstop for about a week.

      1. aqueousmedium +6

        Not a single song here either, I’ve had Kate Bush’s Hounds of Love on loop all week and it’s been glorious.

    3. dorianneemmerton +4

      Owen Pallet is so great! I’ve loved him ever since I saw him as Final Fantasy open for (and play with) Arcade Fire in 2005 at the Danforth Music Hall. There was another band in between – one of the Wolf ones – which obviously made no impression on me.

      Right now my brain is flipping in between Missy Elliott’s Hot Boyz and Mountain Goats’ No Children.

    4. RandomCrouton +1

      “The Memo” by Father John Misty (on SoundCloud) or White Denim’s version of “Just dropped in (to see what condition my condition was in) also on SoundCloud.

    5. Holly_Kat +2

      I’ve been obsessed with the video for En Vogue’s “Free Your Mind”. I highly recommend it.

  37. 30Litresof +13

    Going to an event with free booze last night has resulted in me actually getting the cold I’ve been fending off for the last couple of weeks. In better news, have nearly finished my NaNoWriMo novel, which isn’t going to hit 50,000 words but is still sizeable and FINISHED, and a good friend of mine has decided to move here to Manchester at exactly the time I want to move into a new place! So we can live together and hopefully get a cat.

    1. jimmyjimjimjim +4

      Finished is way better than 50000 anyway. The two times I did it I basically spewed forth narrative, got 50000 and was like 1/3-1/2 way at best to any sort of reasonable conclusion of what I had written.

      Writing longish things that end is much more writerly.

      1. 30Litresof +2

        Thank you! I know you don’t know me and probably won’t see this reply, but it means a lot to have someone say that what I’ve done (from that brief description) is ‘writerly’.

        1. jimmyjimjimjim +3

          Tch, ‘s not even a thing you know? Finishing things is super-more is impressive than doing things.
          …
          Which, fair enough, is a ridiculous way to put it but it’s true. I am an inveterate doer and have not once concluded a damn thing.
          totes jelly.

  38. Rhi +4

    A good Thanksgiving to those celebrating and to my fellow US exports scattered worldwide. I miss the fam, and the food…though the latter’s easily fixed by my planned cooking tomorrow.

    Anyone else in these shoes? (Yes, that says exports on purpose…I’m not an expatriate.)

    1. aravisthequeen +5

      I haven’t been in the US to celebrate Thanksgiving in almost a decade but I do miss it. The fact that my parents aren’t cooking today because my dad is too ill is…cold comfort, to say the least. Instead I am still longing for a cookie.

    2. secondursula +6

      Checking in! And I’m not comfortable with the expatriate label either, because it seems like a way to breezily disassociate oneself from immigrants, when instead I’d like to proclaim my solidarity with everyone who has come here and had to learn how to live with the cold and the rules about which side of the escalator to stand on [UK > US transplant for reference] and how to know when someone says “It’s fine” but it really isn’t fine. But then I can’t quite bring myself to call myself an immigrant yet, because I don’t know if we plan to stay for more than ? year(s). So for now I’m just leaning on heavily on ‘person who happens to be here, who also supports other people who have also come from elsewhere seeking economic opportunity and stability, etc. etc. etc.’

      I’m very thankful though, that although I’m pretty far away from home, I’ve had lots of opportunities to check in with my friends and family. Also, I’ve found all the ingredients I would need to make a rocking dinner. Just not the motivation. I’ve been inspired to try for stuffing this weekend.

      1. IronDoe +5

        I’m American in the UK too, but more or less settled. I’m a big fan of calling myself an immigrant just to fuck with people’s arguments about immigration because somehow they never seem to mean (white, non-Muslim, American-English speaking) me. It’s fun when they say, ‘yeah, but you’re different’ and you come back with ‘how?’ and watch them try to figure out how to not be racist.

    3. lassotabasco +8

      American living in the UK here! I’m sitting alone at my local pub having a cider and a burger because all my friends are busy, but whatever.
      I have mixed feelings because on the one hand, I don’t like spending time with my family but on the other hand, THANKSGIVINGGGGG. Actually I get sad every year because people’s happy family pictures make me jealous and resentful. But I’ve got a can of jellied cranberry sauce at my house all to myself after I eat this burger!

  39. VaguelyDownward +14

    Happy Thanksgiving Toasts! I am hosting dinner this year for the first time ever (just for a couple of friends, but still), and I thought I was going to be nervous/stressed but the turkey is in the oven and the table is set and I’m just feeling so pleased at the prospect of celebrating with good friends in my cozy little house. I almost feel like an adult except that I’m snacking on cupcakes my mother ordered for me while I wait for the real meal later today.

    1. BeetleBlack +9

      Oh no, if that’s not an adult thing to do, I don’t know what is! See, if you were a kid, you would probably only get one in before an adult took them away and told you to wait until after dinner.

      1. VaguelyDownward +2

        True! And dinner went as well as I’d hoped, and I’m now packed full of meat and carbs and pie and minimal vegetables, so I’m obviously #adulting correctly.

  40. stirringsofconsciousness +13

    My husband barbecued chicken for me so I’d have kosher meat to eat at dinner! I’m currently trying to figure out if the baby is old enough (4.5 months, 20 pounds) to nom on some sweet potatoes.

      1. stirringsofconsciousness +9

        Well, to clarify: turkey is generally considered kosher, but a kosher turkey is expensive, and I’m the only person at our get together who only eats strictly kosher meat, and I don’t love turkey as much as I love chicken, so the economical thing is for me to bring a private stash of kosher meat while everyone else eats non-kosher turkey. I have had many Thanksgivings where all I can eat are mashed potatoes (yay!) and green beans (boo), but now I live in an area where I can eat kosher meat daily, so the exciting thing for me was husband barbecuing!

        1. j_bird +10

          the exciting thing for me was husband barbecuing!

          Add this one to the “Eats(,) Shoots and Leaves” pile.

    2. geekcrackteam +10

      Let the baby decide, if they’re watching you eat and will take the food and put it their mouth then they’re ready (at least that’s the benchmark we use)

      1. stirringsofconsciousness +9

        Yeah, that’s what the pediatrician said! For me, the worry was that I’d have to prep separate sweet potatoes in addition to the ones my husband roasted, but I think she’ll be fine. Going to offer them because she’s been interested in food, but keeping it low-stakes. I’m surprised to find myself anxious and a little teary at her starting to grow up! But it’s going to be okay if she eats solids or not today.

        1. geekcrackteam +5

          Aww! I’m sure she’ll enjoy sitting at the table and being part of it whether she eats or not!

          And now I’m craving roasted sweet potatoes.

  41. Adam8174 +13

    Toast! My partner and I got rats last weekend! They are three 10-week old males, full of energy and more or less comfortable hanging out with us.

    I was going to upload some very cute pictures, but instead I’m going to ask how that works because I’m an html neophyte and I couldn’t figure it out with a quick search :/

    1. MilesofMountain +3

      For posting pictures: first you have to upload the picture somewhere. Mine are on Facebook, in an album that has privacy settings so only I can see it to save my friends from having to see dozens of cat photos. To put them in your comment you type in:

      *<* img src=”URL” *>*

      With the * removed and the URL of the picture where it says URL. If it’s big, add *width=”500″* after the URL quotation mark and before the closing >

    2. bellmaison +2

      ratties! i’ve had mine (byron & shelley) for almost exactly a year now 🙂 they’re not very photogenic, though, or maybe i’m just not patient enough…

      1. Adam8174 +1

        Hi rats :3 I wanted to post pics of them the first open thread after we got them but I couldn’t get good enough shots. Good light and patience are key. They are currently pretty squirmy and they’re curious about the camera so I have a lot of blurry pics of their faces sniffing the lens.

      2. moniquealexandra +5

        Oh, they are the sweetest things!

        We just lost our old lady rat, Etho, on Monday. Being ratless is a weird feeling (Etho’s sister died last winter). It’s been a tough week, but it’s so nice to see the little babies.

      4. Strophoria +2

        Omg your raaaaaaaaats! I have 4 darlings of my own, 3 old cranky ladies and a baby neutered “male” that we named sylvia cause we thought she was a girl and now we can’t stop calling her “she”. Boys turn into such snugglers as they get older, enjoy them!

        1. Adam8174 +1

          We haven’t named them yet and I was kinda thinking a gender-flipped name would be fun. So far we’ve been calling them by their color patterns and I’m afraid those might stick, which is lame. Alex wants to call the beige one “Baege.” :/

          They are definitely more wigglers than snugglers right now! We were thinking of getting females instead of males because we were afraid they’d pee on our things too much and be lazy, but if anything they’re too much of a handful right now. The hooded one has a URI, which might be why he’s anti-social, but if he gets more excited after he’s feeling better it’ll be hard to keep track of them all.

          2. Strophoria +1

            It also really depends on the rat and on the mischief. What the other rats are doing can have a really profound effect on the whole group – I have a really cranky alpha lady at the moment and so the rest of my rats have gotten kinda bitey and assertive with humans. And when you put snuggle males with active ones, the whole group gets more active and curious. Your babies look quite young yet though, they will most likely get super lickey and affectionate in a few months and then turn into snuggly blobs in a year. Shoulder train them now, and then you can keep your rat friends in your hood when you walk around the house.

      5. Unreadaethel +1

        RAT BUTTS.

        Pet rat protip: give them a yogurt container after you’ve emptied it out (plain or with flavors, rats don’t care). Then watch them all try to crowd into it as they go nuts over the yogurt.

        1. Adam8174 +1

          I knew someone would appreciate their lil butts :3

          Aren’t they supposed to be lactose intolerant? Is that not a thing that matters?

          1. Unreadaethel +3

            I mean, pet stores sell yogurt drops specifically for rats, and I and many other rat-owners I know have fed rats cheese and yogurt, so if they’re lactose intolerant, they put a brave face on it and keep it a well-kept secret.

          2. Strophoria +1

            They are a little bit, don’t give them massive hunks of cheese, but a little bit of yogurt is ok. At worst, you’ll just have to deal with rat farts and stinky poops.

  42. solrius +6

    Happy Thanksgiving to those Toasties who celebrate it!

    I’m having a slightly stressful time at the moment, with deadlines coming up to end of term. There’s an essay due for tomorrow that I’m having a hard time getting my head around, and also a surprise deadline for a progress report on my project, even though the project was meant to be mostly for next term… It’s kind of frustrating because it’s mostly my fault for being a) an idiot, and b) disorganised, so this pile-up really should have been avoided. Still, with some luck, it should all get done, eventually.

    Anyway, if any other Toasties are feeling too stressed at the moment, and would appreciate a thread to vent on, feel free to consider this that thread! (I’ll try and pop back occasionally with photos/gifs/videos of animals, if that’d help anyone.)

    1. Invisible_Kiwi +4

      This is literally me right now (down to the essay due tomorrow!) I feel you. Virtual hugs?
      Virtual study session of the kind where you both sit in the same room each working on your own thing and not really talking, but feeling vaguely comforted by the fact that the other person is there.

      What is your essay about? I’m writing about what we can learn from attempts to teach chimpanzees language.

      1. solrius +3

        Thank you for the hugs! If they’re wanted, I can offer you the same. That kind of study session is exactly what I need right now – thank you for letting me share your virtual room. If it weren’t virtual, I’d offer to put the kettle on for you.

        My essay’s on a bit of physics called the Aharonov-Bohm effect, and what the implications of it are. It is, umm, just as confusing as it sounds (to me, in any case…) Yours sounds super interesting though: how’s it going?

  43. Anonymous +9

    For Thanksgiving this year my father happens not to be in the same part of the country this year (for career-related reasons, but also mildly encouraged by the rest of the family). And he’s not an awful father or anything – but we do have a complicated relationship, and he is very prone to passive-aggressiveness, and there’s constant tension between him and my brother, and he also tends to… have a hard time dealing with holidays – I think he feels a lot of pressure around them. So it usually tends to make things a lot more complicated if he’s around. We also decided not to travel to the big Extended Family Thanksgiving on my mom’s side, partly because it’s on the other side of the country, and partly because of who is and who is not going to be there.

    So in lieu of all those things, my mother and my brother and I are just going to hang out at my mother’s house and watch Princess Bride and then go to a restaurant tonight. & it has been the most blissfully stress-free Thanksgiving I can remember so far, and I’m really looking forward to it.

    So… yay stress-free Thanksgiving! Happy Thanksgiving all!

  44. popelizbet +17

    I now know what rancid PAM spray smells like. This is not a thing I wanted to know.
    Honest Lewis & I have been arguing our Presidential Thanksgiving menus in character as Dirtbag TR and Quiet Dignity Taft this morning via text, which is life. (TR served turtle; Taft, opossum.)

    1. popelizbet +4

      Update on the PAM: my mother had three cans of PAM a year or two past expiration and some that have not yet expired. (Mom is notorious for not remembering if she has baking stuff/spices and buying it on sale on principle, which works less effectively now that it’s just her & Dad. I once found five unopened cinnamon containers in the same cabinet where the evil PAM was hiding.)

  45. robotneedslove +29

    You guuuuuys!

    I found a powerlifting club 4 blocks from my house! At a gym that’s $35/month! They meet EVERY DAY AFTER WORK. There are two coaches who coach for free out of the goodness of their hearts! One is meeting me after work on Monday to get me started!

    Inspiration: I was at the gym with my pretty pricey and not fabulous trainer on Tuesday, and saw a guy doing cleans and I was like “HELLO LET’S DO CLEANS RIGHT NOW” and then we did and then jerks and I was honestly giddy with happiness and I realized, you know what? I love weightlifting let’s get serious about it.

    What is this goodness? What is this world?

  46. Diana_monkey +23

    Greetings from the Columbus Airport! Traveling on Thanksgiving is the most relaxed thing ever. There might be four other people here? And then, when we arrive at our Final Destination, the food will already be ready and waiting for us! Excellent! Happy Thanksgiving – I am thankful for The Toast!

  47. happysadcat +9

    YOU GUYS. I’m listening to NPR out of Spokane, and they’re having a canned T-Day special of themed music and talking. (Patrick Stewart reading Keats was nice) and one of the the talkers is CHRIS KIMBALL. I laugh nervously and check my voodoo protections every time he comes on.
    http://nwpr.org/?utm_source=npr.org&utm_mediu…

    1. Xolandra +4

      I… I cannot believe that Patrick Stewart reading Keats is merely “nice”. My 16 year old self just doused her drawers.

      1. happysadcat +5

        I was using my not-at-all-customary restraint. What I actually did was shout, ARE YOU KIDDING ME MOAR CAPTAIN PICARD LESS MUSIC.

        1. Xolandra +6

          O thank god. Here I was worrying that i was losing touch, and that Patrick Stewart wasn’t sexxxy anymore and that Keats wasn’t just a big wet dream written with extremely pretty words anymore.

  48. spring chickens +10

    Not Thanksgiving-related, but: my elderly pet rabbit, who previously had immaculate litter box habits, has just started marking the brand new chaise longue I got from IKEA, my delightful one-and-only piece of furniture to sit on besides plastic folding chairs. I know it’s just because he’s stressed from all the recent changes in my life (divorce, so my ex-husband is no longer around, the fact that we did a big move and the sofa he especially loved to burrow under stayed in the old place, the fact that I have to take a lot of trips for work because divorcees need incomes and his schedule is interrupted, the sheer fact that the chaise is new and comfy).

    Gross note of zoological interest: rabbit pee is usually orange or red.

    Any tips for stopping this behavior, which isn’t typical for him?

    I’m washing the spot (it’s just one area of the chaise) with white vinegar to get rid of the smell. I’ve been putting citrus fruit that he thinks smells bad there at night, with mixed effect. I was considering spraying it with MY perfume, so that he thinks *I* marked it and I’m the dominant mammal here and understands it is not primarily his space. But all that takes time and with the future trips I have to take, I won’t always be home to enforce things. Any other suggestions from Toasties?

    NB unlike other animals, rabbits do not understand or respond well to punishment/training by negative consequences, so any training I do has to be positive enforcement or outwitting him, not punishment. Also, he’s never lived in a cage because he hasn’t needed to before, he’s been too well behaved, so I can’t shut him up more until he learns; or at least not easily.

    Thanks for any ideas.

    1. aravisthequeen +7

      Nature’s Miracle odor remover is the best I’ve found for removing urine odor from stuff. It’s an enzyme cleaner, so it will kill what’s causing the scent rather than cover it up, and pets won’t be included to use the spot again since it won’t smell like pee. It works a treat on cat pissed (and human urine, actually). Sadly I have no advice for bunny behavior modification, though.

      1. spring chickens +1

        THanks, I will check! A lot of these things are not bunny safe (they are very sensitive to many chemicals, hence their popularity with pharmaceutical companies testing new cosmetics), but there’s got to be something out there.

    2. Es_Petal +3

      Is there anything available from the vet like feliway for rabbits? Poor little soul, I hope he is happier soon.

      1. spring chickens +5

        Thanks, I will ask! We have to go to the animal hospital usually because rabbits are considered “exotic animals”, so they don’t really sell products on the side, but maybe they will have ideas for me.
        I know, poor little soul — it’s especially sad when you can’t explain why the thing that’s upsetting him has to happen, or that some of this is only temporary. :/

        He misses deep male voices so much! He was thrilled when I had the plumber over last week for some repairs — so much leaping and shimmying — it was almost comical (sad but sweet).

        1. aqueousmedium +12

          Does he respond to recorded voice? Could you leave a deep male vocal podcast running while you’re away?

    3. Absotively +4

      Can you put something on the chaise to protect it, for now? Especially when you’re leaving town?

      Also, if you know part of the problem is that he misses burrowing under the old couch, is it possible that having more places to burrow/hide would help? Maybe some cardboard boxes or something?

      1. spring chickens +5

        Yes, I’m going to look for those puppy pads to set out while I’m gone (ugh).

        The chaise was supposed to be another effort to give him a hidey-hole (and me a place to actually sit). I was hoping it would solve some of his insecurity that way! Unfortunately IKEA was out of stock on the feet for the chaise, so I am waiting for them to restock it, and then once it is up off the ground he will be able to scoot under the chaise, and I can discreetly block one or two sides off underneath, so he feels secure there and knows it’s purely his territory.

        Cardboard boxes could be good, or an invitation to pee more, I’m not sure. Maybe I will splurge on an un-dyed all-cotton blanket that he can shred at leisure. Or some old telephone books. You’re right — give him a more interesting environment than usual to hang out in while I’m away. Especially since he hasn’t really made friends with the petsitters yet — I think most of them are dog people and don’t quite get how to avoid abrupt movements or just sit down on the ground so that the bunny trusts you to be non-threatening and comes out and is social. They ARE so social once they decide you’re cool.

        1. Strophoria +3

          I got a bunch of wooden banana boxes for my roommates bunnies to burrow (instead of under my bed – thanks for the jumpscare, bunnies). He filled them up with shredded butcher paper, they loooooove it

    4. happysadcat +4

      My fluffy royals did something like that; I put an old shower curtain down, then some delicious hay cubes, then a couple of toys they love on the edge. They decided that snacking and playing was a better use of that space.

      1. spring chickens +4

        Interesting! Maybe I will try that on top of a puppy pad — and use food items that are kind of absorbent just in case, like hay cubes and his least favorite kind of pellet, plus some toys.

        They do just really have to decide for themselves not to do it, don’t they! Bunnies.

        1. happysadcat +7

          LAGAMORPHS 4 LYFE. I would post a photo of my ridiculous girls but I’m new to commenting and do not know the seekrit ways of multi-media.

          1. spring chickens +6

            same here on photos. but i will join you in a fist bump LAGOMORPHS 4 LYFE!

            they are the cheerfullest, unembarrassed for life, have introduced me to the idea of ritual frolicking over BREAKFAST.

    5. aurorabirdialis +2

      What kind of den or hidey-hole does he use? My bun ran pretty free, but he did have a large cage that he very much enjoyed hanging out in even when roaming was an option.

      1. spring chickens +3

        His litterbox is beneath the bottom shelf of a (high) bookshelf, he’s got another space beneath a side-table, and he has a tent made out of wicker that he can hide in. Also the rug is colored so he can camouflage a little with it. But in our old place he had even more spaces beneath a chair and beneath a big sofa that he had burrowed in from below a bit… he was quite spoiled!

        They all have slightly different personalities, I think. Mine hated cages from the beginning — he used to rattle the bars back when he had it. When I began leaving the door open he basically almost never went in if he could help it. He’s a Dutch Dwarf and apparently they are especially smart, skittish, and fond of being Independent and In Charge.

        Which is fine; I can relate! He is also a cuddly sweetheart when happy.

  49. longlostlullaby +6

    Happy Thanksgiving! It’s not actually Thanksgiving where I am, so I’m just working today. I did decide to try to roast my first whole chicken today, because if not now then when? I’m pretty happy with how it came out.

    Can anyone recommend some good short stories that are online or can be downloaded for free online? I’m looking for some for my classes. I’m in Russia, so unfortunately I’ll need to stay away from anything dealing with LGTB issues or anything overtly feminist (though feel free to recommend them for me to read on my own). Thanks!

    1. jimmyjimjimjim +7

      Roasting whole chickens is one of those tremendously low effort things that none the less makes me feel like an accomplished, competent human bean.

    3. misspiggy +1

      Gutenberg.org has thousands of classics for free in various languages. Search for ‘short stories’ on the site.

  50. Persimmonfan +6

    Toasties, I have a question about boundaries and class assumptions at work. Let’s call the person in question G. G is on gender binary confirming, comes from a difficult/poor background, and is a minority, like myself, and is highly educated. I liked G very much but I am bothered by some of her assertions and jokes regarding what she perceives to be my ‘privileged background’. We are both former academics and enjoy discussions at length, and I have said,”Hey, knock it off,” if a joke goes too far. However, I have my own painful and difficult past: a poor childhood, and a physically and emotionally abusive parent that was the push for me to go to graduate school to force a divorce clause that would fund me. My “upper class” affectations have been acquired through a mix of academia/odd jobs/ art internships, and are useful, up until a point. I acknowledge that I am privileged in obtaining them, as far as they have helped me get to where I am in my life. However, I don’t feel close enough to G nor feel a desire to share these personal facts- I believe that she should avoid making class assumptions (by that I mean sarcastic jokes about my ‘upper class skills’) or insinuations in everyday conversations ‘of course if you look at it from a privileged point of view’. Toasties, am I wrongheaded? I don’t think it advances the conversation any to turn to someone and make assumptions about their background, not founded on any opinion they advance.

    1. RoseCamelia +22

      Persimmonfan, you have every right to say, calmly, respectfully, “please stop commenting on what you assume as my background.” As often as you need to. Doing so with identical wording every time will be more effective.

      You are free to decide this kind of behavior is wrong for you. But G is free to decide differently for herself. Though she must accept the consequences of that choice. Such as your repeated requests to stop. And your eventual avoidance of G, if necessary.

    2. chickpeas +11

      This is a tricky one — I spent a long time in academia (not as an academic) passing as someone of, to be frank, better breeding than I am. It is tricky, too, because people from working class backgrounds can sometimes be exoticized, and I had no interest in that kind of crap. So the choice for me was always, stay silent and be really irritated or speak up and be really irritated and also an object of this weird interest in my background. Is simply never speaking to this person again an option? How about leaving your job, changing your name, burning down your office, and making a run for the border?

  51. CordeliaFitz +2

    A truly terrible school and work schedule has kept me off of the Open Thread for so long, but at last I have a day off!

    You guys, I’ve been nursing comedy crushes on John Mulaney and Rhea Butcher something awful for the past . . I don’t know . . . month? Or more. I’ve also watched every clip of Maria Bamford that I can get my little hands on.
    Can anyone recommend comics that they like with material available to watch online? Especially women!

    1. Heathered +3

      I was surprised at how much I like Iliza Schlesinger! Very high-energy and often very silly, but I put something on at random and by the end I was a fan. And of course Margaret Cho.

      1. CordeliaFitz +1

        Hmm, I watched a couple of her clips, but was turned off by a bit that was basically, “women – we’re ALL CRAZY, amiright?” But she might have other bits I find more enjoyable. And of course Margaret Cho! How could I forget about her?

        1. Heathered +1

          Yeah, you’re not wrong about I.S. in terms of her focus. When I clicked on whichever is the older of her two shows on Netflix I was skeptical to the point of huffy, but within that sometimes narrow scope she is incredibly smart and quick, and then her second show is so different but has tiny callbacks to the first, and those are all the things I love so much that the subject matter becomes less important.

  52. lemonadefish +15

    Hello! Currently sitting at the in-laws, while my husband naps all day long, waiting for a dinner that will conclude with only ONE PIE for seven adults and two children and I am very worried. Nine people need at least three pies, preferable four or five! What will we have for breakfast?! (I was Not To Bring Anything because they are that sort of people, so I didn’t, but now I’m sorry.)

    1. lemonadefish +11

      Update: actually eight adults, and it’s a small pie. I am so sad. But I’ve gotten several compliments for my cheerful demeanor, as I haven’t been sniping at anyone! Ah, holidays. (Meanwhile my family is having four pies for seven people.)

      1. Poppy +2

        Quick, make cookies! Or, tell the kids that after dinner you will make cookies with them as a special treat. In-laws will probably be very relieved. There was probably a pie mishap somewhere.

        1. lemonadefish +4

          Only toddlers, no good for making cookies. And I’m pretty sure one is how many pies they meant to have! I must be building a lot of character here.

      2. Ferdzy +4

        You’re just going to have to sit there thinking about what kind of pies to acquire later for your own personal delectation and catching up.

      3. lemonadefish +20

        Update to the update: only two of us are pie (yay!), but there was no whipped cream (boo hoo hoo). I don’t understand these people. Lucky thing there was plenty of wine. Now I am laying drunk on the trampoline while the toddlers run laps around me (I like to live dangerously).

        1. rolotomassi5 +3

          Given how quickly this thread escalated, that’s my favorite typo in quite some time!

          Congratulations on being pie! Yay!

          1. lemonadefish +3

            I am also baffled. These people make many life choices that I don’t really support, but this one might be the most concerning.

  53. floridagal1 +12

    My thanksgiving so far: I’ve been cooking all day, and I might be pregnant and am mad as hell about it. I’ve never wanted kids, I’ve been MINIMALLY sexually active for 7 years and have been so, so damn safe about everything and then I mess up ONE TIME and guess what that one time was 3 days before ovulation. Fuck biology. My period’s due in like 3 days and I want to know NOW if my life is ruined or not but it’s thanksgiving and stores are closed and I don’t think tests show it until after a missed period? Unclear. Oh and I don’t have heath insurance and live in the USA because of course.

    1. geekcrackteam +8

      As someone who constantly freaks out about being pregnant (despite infrequent sex) I feel you!

      I hope it works out whatever way you most want!

    2. sfbeee +7

      i wish i knew the comforting things to say! i am sending cups of tea and loud swears and comforting squeezes, instead.

    3. Armaniburger +1

      The First Response type pregnancy tests can be taken before your period, if you have a pharmacy open near you. I hope things work out for you.

    4. lemonadefish +5

      Tests probably won’t show until a few days after a missed period. On the plus side, the tests at the dollar store are as good or better than the pricey ones. Here’s hoping it goes your way!

    6. Zelenka +12

      Oh dear. I hope you get the answer you want. Tests are very sensitive these days and they come in two-packs, so you can test on the earliest possible day and then again a week later.
      You probably aren’t pregnant, though. It’s not like TV where one careless moment is all it takes. Even people who are trying to get pregnant can take months to catch.
      Fingers crossed on your behalf!

    7. Beakses +1

      The early response ones start being useful at a minimum of 10 days post ovulation, but early tests are more likely to throw false negatives due to the way hormones and the tests work, so testing early won’t necessarily be helpful from a realistic peace of mind point. Sending good thoughts your way!

    8. shartbreaker +19

      Just in case you are in a soap opera scenario and life is punishing you for your sexuality, abortion procedures are ultra safe and take like 5-7 minutes. Fingers crossed for you!

    9. iosognodisonno +3

      If you haven’t even missed your period yet, then there’s probably no reason to stress out yet. Wishing you lots of no-babies-allowed-in-your-uterus wishes.

    10. Ethylbenzene +2

      As far as I know, the deal with testing is either 14 days after a risk or on the first day you expect your period. And I don’t know if you chart your fertility or not but if you aren’t charting basal temp and cervical mucous, it’s possible you didn’t ovulate when you think you did.

      Scarleteen’s article on peeing on a stick is probably a great place to get all the information anyone could possibly want. They also have a ton of other info, and it might be worth tooling around there to assess the level of risk you had, possible options, etc. Sending you no baby vibes!

  54. politeyeti +11

    For this Thanksgiving, I am at work! I do those lock you in a room, solve puzzles to escape games in San Francisco, and we (to my surprise) sold out today. I guess people want something active to do with family. So I’m here, entertaining the masses.

    I spent the last 4 thanksgivings in Australia, so I’m used to not celebrating, but also weirdly bummed.

  55. calesvol +15

    i’m northern irish so, not celebrating murrican thanksgiving, but i keep meaning to like. say hi. SO HI EVERYBODY. while yr enjoying yr fancy meals or whatever it is you do, i’m getting sad and angry at an essay i have to write for my children’s literature class. (the essay is basically ‘phillip pullman hates religion & wants children to hate religion & i hate this assignment can i be done yet’)

    so obviously instead of doing my work i’m on the toast.

    1. theowlofderision +2

      Hello fellow Norn Iron toastfriend! (I’ve lived in London for years, but I still pronounce ‘a towel after your shower’ as ‘a touwl after yur sharrr’ so it counts.

  56. SmrtCookie +8

    Happy thanksgiving to those who celebrate! Happy normal Thursday to those who don’t! Dinner was a success, the kitchen is a mess, I am too full to move and there are 0.5 pies per capita.

    1. dancingcorvid +3

      that is a good number of pies per capita. For pi(e) day, on March 14, we tend closer to one or more per capita, but for Thanksgiving, after all the other stuff, that should be fine!

  57. crawlkill +26

    mine wasn’t too bad. the brother who goes berserk when told he’s wrong and who tends to say things like, quote, “uh, England is FAR south of Rome” wasn’t present. the most political things got was my recounting how Harry Potter depicts a grim fascist mirror to the 1%er economy (seriously, why is magic secret and WHERE is Wizards Without Borders), which was well-received by guests but less so by family.

  58. winterbymorning +35

    I really don’t want to pigeonhole myself as “that Toastie who’s constantly bitching about her coworkers” but I just had a meeting with a woman who kept saying “e.g.” and “i.e.” and then every time she would add, “e.g. means ‘for example'” or “i.e. means ‘that is.'”

    We know! You don’t need a degree in Classical Studies to know what those mean! And incidentally, I do have a degree in Classical Studies so I am extra not in need of any clarification on this matter!

    Apart from that I am having a great day, and am going to see Mockingjay 2: The Re-mockening tonight with a friend, and I have a lovely new hand cream, and it’s almost the weekend!

    1. Xolandra +12

      I cannot figure out if that is better or worse than the acquaintance I had that insisted on pronouncing etc “et chetera”. I kind of wanted to mock her church latin, but did not have the heart.

      1. Amy +2

        This whole “et chetera” business has really thrown me (I only just heard it this year) but I suppose, really, is it any worse than our saying “et setera” instead of “et ketera”?

    2. aqueousmedium +21

      Honestly, I would be delighted on your behalf if you found another job with normally functional coworkers, but your stories bring bloom and cheer to otherwise dreary days, so, um, please do bitch on.

  59. aurorabirdialis +11

    I…have spent more of the day playing the Sims than I care to admit.
    Happy Thanksgiving to meeeeeeeeeeee

    1. OliviaPJones +2

      Are you playing Sims 4? I’ve been playing Sims since the first one and since I can justify it as my little indulgence I usually upgrade when they have a new franchise out, but I haven’t been able to make the jump to the newest one.

    1. Armaniburger +2

      This is perfect, I laughed till I cried!

      “You know this play so well you better fucking get me tickets”

  61. LadyPoopjokes +4

    Hey Toasters, can someone refresh my memory re: the whereabouts of that list of Toasty Twitter users? I’ve had one for a while but it turns out most of my friends are not on it so it’s mostly just me drunkenly quipping at the void.

  62. Teka Lynn +7

    We’re celebrating Thanksgiving the way we like it. My husband made a stew and rice with garlic bread, and I poured out an oatmeal stout for Thor. We are marathoning The Last of the Summer Wine over apple pie. No relatives, just the three in our household.

  63. dancingcorvid +18

    A pair o’ducks for dinner, plus all the weirdly colored vegetables i could find for roasting. I had three (3!!) colors of sweet potato, three colors of beets, brilliant orange cauliflower, and standard green brussley sproots (said with Swedish Chef accent) and green beans. And mashed potatoes. And my kids accomplished my favorite sister-in-law’s sticky rolls that seem to consist almost entirely of butter and sugar rolled around more sugar, and a small amount of flour to hold it all together. We lost her to pancreatic cancer two years ago, and it still stings, and this recipe is the perfect way to think about her with it hurting less.

    happy day of thanks
    happy Thursday

  64. jlper +15

    Hey toastfriends, I am a bit bummed today. I got a rejection letter for a short story I submitted to a prestigious publication that usually responds within three months. They had mine for five, so while I knew it was a long shot I was sort of hoping for better than a form rejection, but nope.

  65. Unreadaethel +24

    After being initially a Thanksgiving orphan, I was invited by one of my priests to have the meal with her and her children. I have now won Thanksgiving, and it was an amazing time. After I got home and helped my neighbors corral their small dog (who looks a lot like Nicole’s friend’s new puppy), they invited me over for dessert. Not wishing to be rude, I of course accepted a piece of cheesecake and stayed to love on all of the dogs (the household has two, and their company brought another three). Thanksgiving: accomplished.

  66. nihilist_toast +6

    My dude hax to work yesterday, so I ordered vegan thanksgiving dinner for two. It was very relaxing.

    Also, fvck eli roth.

  67. leslieellenjones +13

    So, this has been an unexpected Thanksgiving. My 81-year-old mother went into the hospital with mysterious malaise on the 18th, and they finally decided that she had something akin to Lyme disease–different biology, but also insect-borne. So after a weekend of worry (they tested her for everything under the sun, including a bone marrow biopsy for leukemia), on Tuesday she called and said she was getting out of the hospital on Wednesday, and I had said I would come back to Vermont from LA to help her out. Frantic Expediaing ensued and I actually got a red-eye that very night.

    I am flabbergasted that everything went so smoothly. I landed on time, the cousin who had come over to pick up my mom from the hospital got me at the airport, we were able to have some lunch before mom was discharged and we got into town just in time to get her prescriptions filed before the pharmacy closed for the holiday.

    Yesterday I made us a small dinner (turkey cutlets in a mushroom balsamic sauce, mashed trans with Swiss chard, and boxed stuffing) and the neighbors sent over a huge care package of home-grown turkey and all the equally home-grown/home-made fixings. I think we have enough food to last a week. But I’m going to be here till next Saturday ferrying her around to doctor appointments and making sure she doesn’t overtire herself–my mother is NOT patient about recuperating from illness! I’m just really lucky–and thankful–that I was able to get out here so quickly, that I have a friend who can tend to my cats, that I was able to get an emergency loan from my credit union to cover unexpected expenses, that my mother has such great neighbors out here in the middle of nowhere, that our cousin was able to schlep all the way from eastern Vermont to Albany NY to pick us up…. whew! I just hope that this was a one-off event and not a presage of things to come.

  68. theowlofderision +15

    BICYCLE TOASTIES

    This is not a very Thanksgivingy post (I’m in the UK and I GIVE NO THANKS, NONE), but I was wondering if many fellow Toasties are into cycling? Especially for commuting and getting around town. It would be nice to share the joy of pedalling/white hot rage at other road users with you all!

    For example, today’s worst cycling moment was a yelling match with a guy who ran in front of my bike and then blamed me for ‘having no right to be on the road’ (???); but today’s best cycling moment was waiting at a red light and watching a little squirrel politely use the pedestrian crossing.

    2. fryelight +3

      Cycling!!! Yes! I’ve been meaning to delurk and join the Toastie ranks and see who wants to talk about the joys of our bikes!

      My sympathies for your run-in with that intensely misguided man. It’s so incredibly frustrating to encounter people who dispute your right to EXIST as a road user! Thank goodness for cute squirrels.

      I’m almost finished getting my first winter bike together and am gearing up mentally to attempt my first 12-month bike year in my adopted cold climate. Any other Toasties want to talk merino wool, slush, and hand-warming strategies?

      1. theowlofderision +1

        I just wear a cheap pair of synthetic knit gloves on most days, which keep the cold off in all but the very worst weather. I learned from my mistake a few years ago, when I ruined a really nice pair of lined leather globes by wearing them riding, which stretched them and got them covered in grubbiness. That said, I’m more or less committed to cycling as the Dutch and Danes do, in regular work clothes rather than cycling ‘gear’ so I don’t have special waterproof gloves.

        1. fryelight +1

          My commute is long and my city (Montreal) is cold and going to be slushy, so unfortunately some key pieces of sartorially egregious gear are necessary for happy cycling. I rode for years in my regular clothes during the warmer months, though now I’ve come to really like changing at the start and end of my work day. It puts me back into freedom mode 🙂

      2. ripeavocadoes +2

        Winter cycling yes!! Here are my tips (credentials from Canada):

        -it’s a mental game–it’s not as bad as you think it will be and it’s also really badass. I set firm limits so I don’t have to ride when it’ll make me truly miserable (<-25C or very icy roads are mine) but I do my absolute best to ride the rest of the time.
        -Fenders and rain pants are v necessary. I got my rain pants from Costco.
        -If you can operate your bike in mittens, mittens over gloves is the way to go. I’ve had v expensive winter cycling gloves but I always inevitably lost them and my fingers still froze.

        good luck!!

        1. fryelight +1

          I agree that it’s totally a mental thing! I’m preparing by fixing up my winter bike by myself as much as possible so I can diagnose and fix inevitable issues, and by talking to badass lady cyclists about their preferences and experiences. By all accounts, no one goes back to taking the bus.

          Good point about setting limits, too. My fear is of ice so I’ll be watching the weather closely and not riding if things refreeze quickly after a thaw.

          1. ripeavocadoes +1

            Excellent plan of attack! Repair knowledge is totally key, do you have a DIY bike repair space in your area?

    3. j_bird +2

      I never had the experience of getting angry at strangers until I started biking in traffic. When it’s not associated with a terrifying close call, I (as someone who usually represses her anger very strongly) find it somewhat liberating.

    4. halloweenjack64 +2

      Fellow cyclist here. Yes, pedestrians can be every bit as much of a bag of dicks as motorists, or fellow cyclists for that matter. I’d love to be out but there has to be a serious thaw (including not going below freezing at night) for at least several days before I can trust that there won’t be a remaining patch of ice at the worst possible place, such as at a stop at the bottom of a hill. Couple of years ago, I was out riding the weekend before New Year’s, so it’s possible.

  69. hey_sijia +15

    I’ve discovered a new book recently called “Marcus Aurelius in Love” by Amy RIchlin. She translated the letters between Marcus Aurelius (yes, THAT Marcus Aurelius), and his teacher when he was a teenager. Some reviews call it the only “homosexual love letters to survive from antiquity”, which I disagree with, but w/ever. It’s filled with delightfully soppy teen sentiment from MA. Check it out:

    “If that Phaedrus guy of yours ever really existed, if he was ever away from Socrates, Socrates didn’t burn more with desire for Phaedrus than I’ve burned during these days— did I say days? I mean months —for the sight of you. Your letter fixed it so a person wouldn’t have to be Dion to love you so much —if he isn’t immediately seized with love of you. Goodbye, my biggest thing under heaven, my pride and joy. It’s enough for me to have had such a teacher. My lady mother says hello.”

    “Hi!! So I really really like u!! Even more than Socrates loved Phaedrus!! How does everyone NOT have a crush on u?? Ugghhhhhhh anyways just tot. glad to have you as my prof <3 <3. P.S. mum says hi!!”

    TIL Marcus Aurelius was the bright-eyed freshman with a crush on prof. Fronto.

  70. jmstevenson76 +11

    Fuuuuck yooooouuuuu to hospitals and insurance companies that take weeks/months to bill and pay bills.

    A $500 bill from an emergency room visit for The Baby Who Is No Longer arrived in the mail yesterday, two and a half months after the fact. That brings the financial impact of this baby up to an even $3,000.

    If I hadn’t terminated, I would be 22ish weeks. We would have told the family on Thanksgiving. I would be counting kicks in between trips to the bathroom. I would probably be on a feeding tube, so Thanksgiving would have been a completely different thing, and I’d still be throwing up non-stop. But… yeah. Dead baby.

    3. cheekypinky +4

      Shit, honey. Shitting shitty shit. That sucks, and I sincerely hope this week has only nice things in store for you.

  71. Onymous

    I will preface this by saying that I don't actually mind (and actively enjoy ~20% of) "Sounds Like Katy Perry/Rhianna" and "Classic Rock" but I do find it extremely frustrating that these are the two styles of noise that are some how considered Universally Acceptable.

    Aretha Franklin, Diana Ross, Loretta Lynn, Dolly Parton are all for some reason less acceptable than Flo Rida or Skynyrd!