You can write to Aunt Acid at [email protected]. Note: Letters are condensed and edited for length.
Dear Aunt Acid,
My boyfriend and I moved to a new city in August and were both jobless for a period of time. I started work at my new position a couple months after that. However, he is still looking for work, and is feeling very down about his prospects and qualifications. It’s terrible, because he really is smart and qualified and would be a great asset for any company.
My question isn’t really how to help him get a job, because I know I’m limited in that department — we work in different industries, and, though I’m keeping an eye on my new employer’s job board for opportunities for him, I haven’t had any luck so far. We’re surviving on my salary, so money isn’t the problem, either. I’m wondering, really, how best to be supportive. When I tell him how qualified and great he is he brushes it off, and the words, however much I mean them, feel unhelpful and repetitive to me, particularly since he seems a bit jealous of my luck in finding a job (and my company, which has good benefits and people). How do I be a good partner to someone going through unemployment?
Guiltily Employed Partner
GEP, my friend, what exactly do you feel guilty about? You’re going to work each day and coming home every night. You’re providing stability in terms of a paycheck and benefits, and society in terms of new coworker-friends. And you’re working an unpaid second shift, expending emotional effort to try to convince your less fortunate boyfriend how great he is. Now you’re asking for help as to how to be better?
Yes, it’s hard to be on a different wavelength than your partner when it comes to any significant life situation. Hell, it can be hard when one of you really craves greasy takeout and the other wants to prep a salad. And the two of you have recently done something very challenging in terms of upending your life and starting over in a new locale. The definition of a city is a big, busy place that doesn’t give a fuck about you. Since you have a job, you probably feel more like you belong to the rhythm and machinations of your new home. Since he lacks that, he probably feels more exposed, more vulnerable, and that makes him lash out. (Some people have never learned to handle feeling vulnerable with grace.)
But the way life unspools, especially over any real length of time, is that while on occasion it seems like you’re both “winning,” at other times it will simply seem like only one of you is. The way he reacts when you’re the one who’s “winning” is really important information. A few nights, even a month or two, of sullenness can be an aberration. Half a year of it is data. Instead of worrying about what you could be doing that you’re not doing—the answer is nothing! You’re being supportive and considerate and great—ask yourself what he’s telling you, both through his words and his actions. Is he appreciative? Is he reliable? Has he figured out a way to contribute to the relationship and the household, even without a job? Can he be unselfishly happy for you, the way you are unselfishly concerned about him?
This isn’t about you, not really. This is about him: his limitations, his abilities, and whether he can once again become the great guy you believe him to be. Guilt can be like a layer of butter we spread on top of a slice of could-be-moldy bread when we’re too scared to look at the bread itself. It’s a way to ask a lot of ourselves rather than anything of other people. Have the courage to scrape off the guilt and give what’s underneath a clear-eyed appraisal.
Aunt Acid
Dear Aunt Acid,
My husband of almost five years and I have always been open and honest with each other about our sexual pasts and histories of abuse (we were both molested as children). We’ve been through multiple crises and life changes in the past year or so, including my father-in-law’s arrest and trial for child molestation and my husband’s subsequent breakdown and affair with one of our close friends. In the aftermath of all this turmoil, we’ve talked more about how those events have shaped us and how they might still inform our actions and reactions today.
That brings us to the crux of this letter: I was sexually assaulted by a casual partner when I was a teen, but because of how I processed it and chose to reframe it in my own mind, I’ve never told my husband. I honestly don’t feel much lasting damage or influence from that one particular night, which I think has also added to my silence about it; in the grand scheme of things, it hasn’t felt important enough to bring up. That being said, it feels really weird now to still have such a secret while we’re in this space with each other that is even more honest and thoughtful than it’s been before. I’d like to tell him, because I think it’s important to. But how do I even begin broach the subject? And how do I navigate the resulting conversation?
Sarah
Dear Sarah,
What an immense amount you’ve had to cope with, both individually and as a member of a couple. You have my admiration and best wishes.
As to whether you should share this last undisclosed bit of information with your husband, I wonder whether there’s any underlying logic to why you haven’t already. The two of you have had to initiate plenty of difficult, painful conversations about sexual assault, so you know how to broach the subject. If this one memory is sticking in your throat, it might be worth talking to a professional first about why. Do you perhaps have any lingering issues around trust, for example, that you might want to sort through before exposing yet another aspect of your past to your husband? Over the past five years, he has hurt you as well as helped you, after all.
You can love a person even as you don’t feel entirely safe with him; and perhaps some self-sustaining part of you feels the need to establish a bit more safety before you make this last reveal. Or perhaps there is more to this memory, for whatever reason, than you want to acknowledge.
In any event, this is your story to share, or not, in your own time. If you feel that you owe it to your husband to say something, you can always provide an introduction to the truth: that there’s another story you want to feel comfortable enough to share with him eventually—not a major one, necessarily, but still, one that seems relevant now—and you hope for his understanding and patience as you comb out your own tangled emotions.
Best of luck,
Aunt Acid
Dang, that first letter is bringing up a lot of feelings for me. I supported my ex-husband through almost eight months of unemployment. I covered rent, food, bills, etc. – the only thing he paid were his personal credit cards & student loans. I could afford it, and I felt like paying down his debts and maybe saving a bit of money was a good way for him to use his unemployment benefits, which were not what I’d call generous.
But I would come home after a long day, and nothing would be done around the house. I was still doing substantially more than half of the household chores, even though he was barely contributing financially. And I would still feel guilty, because I knew he was making a good-faith effort to get a job, and there were complicating factors, and I didn’t want to make him feel bad about himself for not contributing. So I paid the bills and did the chores and was his cheerleader, and I won’t say I did it without complaint, but I was pretty damn accommodating.
Then he got a job! And for the first month or so, I still paid most of the bills so he could catch back up on some debts. And then, once he’d settled into his job and I was beginning to think I could start building my savings again and making some progress on various goals, he left me. I don’t think that was a conscious plan, to get me to support him long enough to get a job and then dump me – my guess is that it’s more along the lines of wanting to be in a secure place before he really examined his feelings about our relationship – but it’s tough not to feel used, and I’m pretty mad about it.
I’m pretty mad at it, just reading it, on your behalf. I guess one doesn’t always have to *try* to be a shithead–sometimes one just *is* a shithead.
Aww, thanks. And even now, I’m still defending him, like I owe it to him to explain to total strangers that “he probably didn’t mean to be a total parasite for almost a year!” Emotional labor is an insidious thing.
What. An. Asshole.
Pretty much.
Ooof yeah. Me being financially stable helped my ex get through university, and then once he finished and got a pretty good paying job (and I was unemployed due in large part to a broken foot, which has since resulted in permanent health complications that hinder my ability to work now) and also left. And now he works at a huge unnamed to protect the innocent tech company, and it’s hard not to feel like he owes me SOMETHING.
Right?! I’m torn between wanting his undying gratitude, and never wanting to talk to him again.
I am so sorry. I’m not a very violent person, but this makes me want to form a roving band of Toastie vigilantes to track down your ex, because I think we’d be great at meting out the JUSTICE and how could anyone possibly trace it back to you? They couldn’t.
Strangers on a Toast
And I know Toast justice would be exactly proportionate, but still totally vicious, and it would be glorious.
I would put legos in all his shoes to start with.
Justice will be slow, untraceable and basically end with someone’s nervous breakdown.
I am indignant on your behalf. You went above and beyond to be A Good Person.
Wow. That is a really shitty thing. I’m so sorry that happened, and I wish for your (very well placed and righteous) anger to disperse soon so that you can basically continue to be awesome without that hanging over you!
I had a different family member do something fairly horrible and while it’s not the same, I was in a position where my anger and rage about it was completely justified, but it still made me bitter. So I hope you are able to let go of that (if you feel it) quickly because it can make your life miserable. Even though, you know. He’s the arsehole.
I have to say that I have been your boyfriend, and I’m sorry. It wasn’t on purpose.
I kinda did this to an exboyfriend.
My unemployment had run out and I had absolutely no money at all, just food stamps. He paid my half of rent and I asked for like ten dollars a week in spending money and that was it. I made him keep a list of everything he paid for and told him I’d pay him back.
I did get a job. And a few months later I broke it off. But I paid him back for every dollar he’d written down.
I honestly don’t think the breakup was much of a surprise though. We’d been really distant for months at that point.
“Guilt can be like a layer of butter we spread on top of a slice of could-be-moldy bread when we’re too scared to look at the bread itself. It’s a way to ask a lot of ourselves rather than anything of other people.”
Aunt Acid, producing diamonds as always.
One possibility that the first letter didn’t mention: The letter writer isn’t clear about the specifics of her boyfriend’s situation, but half a year of sullenness may be data. It may also be evidence of some situational or chronic depression, which is something that unemployment is brutal about exacerbating. It also tends to lead to things like brushing off positive comments and being jealous of those in better situations.
This, of course, does not obligate someone to stay in the relationship just for the sake of “supporting him.” That decision is entirely your own. But it’s a possibility to consider, especially because the current strategy clearly isn’t working and the letter writer seems to genuinely want to help.
yes!
Even if it hasn’t gotten to a point of Major Depression based on Official Diagnostic Criteria, it may be worth talking to someone professional. I know when I was Severely Underemployed, it wasn’t just the drudgery of depression in various intensities, it was also that it exacerbated other stuff I have going on, which wasn’t good for me or the people around me.
So I think I’d say that a half a year of sullenness is still data either way, because even if this chunk of time is more “how mental illness affects his behavior” rather than “how not being a ‘winner’ affects his behavior”, that’s still data, it’s just different data. And I think that difference is important! But how someone treats you while not-their-best is still important.
I was thinking about possible mental health issues, as well. My husband went through a long period of unemployment (alternating with temporary, unsatisfying, low-paying employment) after getting his PhD, which isn’t unusual in his field but was still not at all fun.
One thing that helped was that he is a good dude, who used his time to take care of stuff around the house and be a good partner. He also started seeing a therapist, because he knew that I couldn’t be the dumping ground for his ongoing frustration and disappointment. I don’t know if that’s possible for LW#1’s boyfriend, of course. But it might help to know that, even without getting that perfect new job, he can do something about his state of mind.
Agreed, this seems more like depression than active douchebaggery. The advice says his situation is making him “lash out” – all the LW said is that he brushes her off when she tries to compliment his abilities, which he is insecure about. He’s not actively being a dick and the LW doesn’t say anything about him making her feel bad – she just wants advice for how she can positively help him when he isn’t responding to the type of help she’s currently trying to give.
i know we rip on men a lot for expecting the world of their partners and being ungrateful little shits, but LW1 here doesn’t seem to think her partner is being an asshole. He’s “feeling down about himself and his qualifications” and he brushes off her attempts to make him feel good about himself. Those are qualities of depression, not douchebaggery. He’s not dismissing her, making her feel like she’s a bad person for having a job, or generally being a jerk. She says he “seems jealous” but I imagine she would have said so if he had been passive-aggressively making snide remarks. Sounds like she knows him well and realizes he’s having some feelings he isn’t expressing.
I really think the advice should have been less “he’s being spoiled; let him deal with his own shit, you’re doing plenty” and more “sounds like he’s dealing with some serious depression and/or self-worth problems and needs some outside help.”
This really hit home. I’ve been in the same position LW1’s partner, a period of intense listlessness and depression exacerbated by a strings of poor luck and failure. My partner put an immense amount of energy into helping keep my life on track practically, and it was an incredible strain on her and our relationship.
However, the /kind/ of help that came naturally to her was very… parent-running-the-show-y, which honestly, looking back on it, was not the most effective way she could have provided support. What I needed from her at the time was less administrative and essentially, well, ego stroking. To be reminded I was worthwhile and capable and had things to offer the world. Which is what LW1 is asking how better to be. Instead, the way she knew how to help left her feeling exhausted and unappreciated, and reinforced my own feelings of helplessness.
This of course wasn’t her failing, she was doing her best, and I lacked the emotional maturity to understand what to ask for. I am, to this day, kind of flabbergasted by and appreciative of how much she put into our relationship during that time. But it really was one of those effort vs. efficacy things. We’ve both learned a lot from that, and are both much better at being /effectively/ supportive of each other as a result.
You can give as many coats and blankets to homeless shelters as you want, and they’ll take them, and it’s more help than giving nothing. But, if you ask people at shelters, what they need is socks. Sometimes relationships are the same way, with areas where a different kind of help can have a much bigger impact than the kind we instinctively know how to give.
Beautifully put!
I’m in the process of coming out of a similar situation to LW1’s partner. It put an incredible strain on my marriage and one of the ways we’ve survived was couples counseling – we had to relearn how to ask each other for what we each needed and get better at setting boundaries.
My husband was out of a job for about a year at two intervals since we’ve been together, and the dynamic of first LW’s relationship is very familiar. I think a thing to consider with the first LW’s bf is that for some men, their employment status is directly related to their sense of self as partners and humans. This is true for those of all genders, of course, but it’s (cis)men who have traditionally been socialized to view themselves as providers. Even if they’re aware that this is bullshit, it can still take a toll. It sounds like LW’s boyfriend is feeling depressed and lost, and that makes it hard to see outside of himself or even find other work. No wonder LW is feeling guilty, and of course she shouldn’t. But maybe she could also encourage him to see a therapist to deal with his depression and learn how to be a good partner in spite of it. Getting back on his feet emotionally may also be instrumental in helping him find a job, who knows?
I was thinking along the same lines–is it possible for him to find something to get involved in that will increase his sense of being competent and perhaps, along the way, provide networking possibilities that could lead to a job? Not even volunteering (especially since volunteer-driven organizations don’t want someone who will drop out as soon as he gets work), but something like a hiking club that would get him moving and out of the house and oriented to the new city.
their employment status is directly related to their sense of self as partners and humans
Absolutely. I also feel this way, when I’m looking for work. I remember going into the job centre and having my case worker ask me what I’d been up to, and I thought, ‘Nothing, of course! I’m UNEMPLOYED.’ But it’s all about perspective. If you have your needs take care of, unemployment can be a real opportunity to look at something you’ve always wanted to do, but never had the time, or volunteer somewhere. It’s just really hard getting over that stigma of not being the provider–whether you’re a man or a woman. But I think the pressure is certainly, in our culture, on the man.
What lovely, sensitive advice to LW2.
When my husband started his PhD I had to leave a job I loved (which admittedly didn’t pay well, but still it was awesome) and move to a place with not great job prospects. I’m the type of person who doesn’t like feeling dependent on anyone so I coped by finding a job rather than The Job. I got a gig at Bed Bath and Beyond while I searched elsewhere. I actually learned a lot about sheets, towels, and various kitchen implements and was able to buy some great kitchen stuff for cheap because of employee specials, so while it wasn’t a great job it wasn’t a bust. It gave me not only a reason to get up and put on pants every day, but it kept me from having too long of a space on my resume. Now I work at a job that I adore and I’m really knowledgeable about different types of skillets and why you should always buy the nice towels. I don’t know if LWs boyfriend would want to find a job outside his profession–it’s not fun to go from respected professional to service industry–but it really does help knowing that you have a job and are making money, even if it’s not as much as you’d like.
…why should you always buy the nice towels?
They are literally the only thing in the store where 100% of the time (unless you’re talking clearance which is a totally different ballgame) you pay for what you get. I was actually told that by a manager–he said anything else it really depends on what you want and what you need, and sometimes less expensive options are actually the better option, but with towels the cheaper ones use cheap cottons and the more expensive ones use higher-quality cotton (and sometimes bamboos and linens). Cheap towels won’t be as absorbent and usually fall apart faster. (You also want to stay away from the “fancy” towels where the loops have been trimmed so they’re like velvet–the loosely spun loops are what makes towels so absorbent.) When I buy towels, I look for good brands on clearance. I bought some Amy Butler ones 6 years ago on clearance and they’re still amazing, absorbent, and in great shape, whereas the cheap ones I bought at the same time to round out my collection fell apart in just a couple years. It’s really weird, but it’s true! (And now I work in the textile field so I’m even MORE passionate about towels. If I had a wide enough loom, hand to heart I’d make my own bath towels.)
That’s so cool. I feel like I had to learn about cheap towels = lack of absorbancy the hard way, from years of buying them at the supermarket.
I’m really digging your passion for nice towel (and, I extend this to nice sheets as well). Having nice textiles makes you feel very rich, even if you’re not…
Oh, man, a few years ago, I spent a ridiculous amount of money on bamboo sheets and they are probably my favorite thing in my entire house. Just so soft and smooth, they really do feel decadent to own.
And how do you know that they’re the nice ones?
The easy answer is price–at least at Bed Bath and Beyond. You can also look for cottons that are long-stapled. Those will be less linty–these would be Egyptian Cotton, Pima, Supima, or might just be labelled as long-stapled cotton. I think with the longer staples you can spin the yarn looser and it’s that space between fibers that will soak up the water. Towels that use linen or bamboo (which is great even when rayonized) are also going to be good quality and absorb plenty. Look for ones that have good stitching at the ends–the Amy Butler ones i use have a detailed Jacquard/paisley pattern at either end that should never unravel. Ones that are simply hemmed have a tendency to fall apart faster as the stitching comes undone. If you find a good set of towels you like it really is worth the investment–we’ve had three sets of cheap towels and all three have fallen apart of developed holes, the one nice set we have (and I’m glad i had the forethought to buy a full set) still has many more years in it.
What a fantastic and unexpected bit of good advice I didn’t know I needed. Thank you!
THANK YOU for all this information!! Nice towels are one of life’s under-appreciated luxuries. And towels fresh out of the dryer? Oh man, don’t get me started…
Wow, that first letter also hits home. I dated a guy who had trouble finding a job – and let’s just say, he wasn’t very qualified to do anything related to his degree. He was scatterbrained. He didn’t know what he wanted to do with his life. He ended up working 3 part-time jobs that just made him upset all the time. But I was always the one emotionally supporting him, and trying to do things for him to make it easier on his wallet (driving to his place instead of him driving to mine, agreeing to stay in and not go on dates, etc). And I wouldn’t have minded doing those things if I felt like I was appreciated for doing them.
So the issue wasn’t that he had a hard time “finding” himself and getting a full-time job – it was the fact that he was an immature narcissist. And that’s something that a full-time job wouldn’t have fixed.
Yup- same. Sometimes the unemployed person I was with would fall back to using his unemployment as an excuse or reason when he would lash out at me- or when I was trying to get him to contribute he would throw it in my face like it was something I SHOULD have felt guilty about. I love how Aunt Acid frames the response. “This isn’t about you, not really. This is about him: his limitations, his abilities, and whether he can once again become the great guy you believe him to be.”
Ew, yeah. Definitely know what you mean there. And yes, that one line from Aunt Acid sums it up perfectly.
“Sometimes the unemployed person I was with would fall back to using his unemployment as an excuse or reason when he would lash out at me- or when I was trying to get him to contribute he would throw it in my face like it was something I SHOULD have felt guilty about.”
Oh. Oh gods. The – I’m – my ex isn’t unique in that? There are other people who had to live with that? (And it’s funny how after three years of “it’s too hard” “it’s too much stress” “you were unemployed for a long time too, you should understand how much work finding work is”, within two weeks of my leaving my house, they managed to find two jobs. Sometimes it ISN’T depression, sometimes the person who’s unemployed is just an immature jackass.) I want to buy both of you and Letter Writer 1 all some sort of soothing drink, alcohol optional.
I’m sure there was some undiagnosed mental issue going on with my ex – and I DID encourage him to seek therapy and speak to a professional. His parents even set up an appointment with him and were going to pay for any therapy expenses. But when I agreed with his parents that he should go, he backed out and said he didn’t want the help. I think what he really wanted was pity and for someone to just take care of him instead. The idea of REAL help was too much for him – and eventually he got angry with me, making me feel guilty for feeling like I wasn’t doing enough to help him (in other words, coddle him).
Needless to say, it was like dragging a dumb horse to water over and over and watch it not drink.
So cheers for not wasting time with people who only care about you when it’s convenient for them!
Oof I dated a guy like this; when we met we were students, but he quickly dropped out and said he was going to get a job instead; which never happened. I kept going with studying and managed to get a waitressing job to pay my way, and he was still unemployed and doing nothing (at this point I was in college full time, working 3-4 days a week and I had horses to care for everyday, needless to say, I was busy.) and at time I honestly think he resented me for getting on with my life while he couldn’t get his shit together at all. If I ever wanted to do anything I had to pay double because I had to pay for his ass too, so we never did anything.
Its what eventually broke us up, I had a life plan and I was sticking to it and he wouldn’t get with the programme, I was always asking him and encouraging him to think about what he wanted to do with his life and his answer was always ‘I dunno, I’ll see what happens’, which always means nothing happens. He wouldn’t even make plans for the summer; when I asked him what he wanted to do (Like ‘lets plan a weekend away, where do you want to go!’), he would never answer and his solution was always to wait until other people suggested and organised things and then he’d just tag along.
When I pushed him on it, he’s always get shitty and say I was lucky because I found what I wanted to do early in life; but all I did was come up with ideas of things I could do and go and do them. He broke up with me once (we got back together) because I ‘didn’t like his friends and did want to do the things he wanted to do’, which was to go to his friends house all weekend, smoke weed, and then disappear for 3 days. I politely pointed out that the reason I didn’t ‘like’ doing these things was that I had a job at the weekend and college during the week that meant I couldn’t go offline for 4 days in a row.
4 years later, he’s finally gotten himself a job in a building supply store and you would think he’s become CEO or something the way he goes on about it.
“And you’re working an unpaid second shift, expending emotional effort to try to convince your less fortunate boyfriend how great he is. Now you’re asking for help as to how to be better?”
This is SO IMPORTANT. Over the summer there was also an essay about unpaid emotional labor that really hit home, too.
I don’t know if the LW is a woman, but as a woman, it seems like we are often taught subversively that if something is going wrong in a relationship it’s probably something we’re doing. I have to stop myself from apologizing for not being good enough, not doing enough, ALL THE TIME. It takes a lifetime to unlearn. I love Aunt Acid.
I really, really wish I had the last paragraph of AA’s response to the first letter when trying to talk to a friend last week. She was being treated abominably by a partner and making it about her guilt, what she wasn’t saying or doing, as opposed to his behavior. And I couldn’t find the right words to make her see that. I’m saving this one.
I take issue with some of these comments about emotional effort, in that a thing isn’t necessarily beneficial to or wanted by someone else just because it is laborious to produce it. If he has asked you to be supportive and prop him up and then snaps at you when you do, that’s one thing — a thing where he is a dick — but if you are doing all this on your own initiative the best thing would be to stop. best for you because this isn’t rewarding for you, and for him, because he doesn’t like it.
why is he like this — he should be gracious and grateful but I cannot really imagine finding comfort in being told that I am qualified to work in a particular industry by someone in a completely different industry – it is very isolating to be confidently told things by a loved one that your experience is teaching you aren’t true, when there’s no way to argue back without putting yourself down. I don’t know that he feels patronized, maybe he is just self-centered and moody, but that’s how I would feel. also it makes you feel desperate, right — if you can’t get work because you’re unqualified, you go get some qualifications, but if that’s not the problem and you really are great, there’s no way out that’s under your control.
but also, you have every right to ask him directly whether he would rather have you be explicitly supportive through words, as you have been, or pull back and not mention it, and he should be able to tell you the answer and then agree not to complain when you do whatever it is he says he prefers.
because if he is sitting around complaining about how much he sucks and that is why he can’t get a job, and he doesn’t like being contradicted, you kind of have no choice but to agree with him or ignore him. It might not get a great response but at least it would be a new one.
The response to LW1 really upset me. This was my experience with my unemployed partner:
My partner was horribly depressed because he was unemployed as a result of a serious illness, so he was feeling helpless and scared all the time and he’s the kind of man who feels he’s not being a good person if he’s not capable of pulling his own weight. Being in a position where he needed someone else to survive was unbearable for him. He very much wanted to be an equal partner to me and it was devastating to him that he was “dragging me down.”
He dealt with the depression through escapism – online gaming, mostly, but generally just being online. He would do anything I asked him to do around the house, but wouldn’t take initiative himself. Confronted about that, he would agree that he wasn’t doing enough and immediately internalize it into “I’m a shitty partner and a shitty person and you’d be better off without me.” Which made the depression worse, which made him retreat even further into himself, which made the problem worse.
Now, does this make him an ideal person who handles difficult situations “with grace”, as the advice would have him be? No, this makes him someone who has depression and dealt with it in the best way he could. And it was awful for me, describing this problem to friends and trying to figure out how to get what I needed without setting off his triggers, to get advice back that was basically: “He’s being a big baby, tell him to quit messing around online and get a job. And if he won’t, you should leave him.”
This is not helpful advice. This is advice predicated on the idea that my partner is an asshole trying to take advantage of me, and that if he’s not performing at his best capacity, he’s not worthy of being loved. We figured out ways for me to be a support for him, and he is doing much better mentally and has a steady job and is now helping me get out of debt. But I was on my own, because everyone is so willing to say “fuck that guy, he’s not good enough to put effort into.”
And we would never say that about a fellow Toastie, no matter what. Depression and anxiety and problems with self-worth and coping mechanisms and guilt are all things we normally have infinite compassion for on this site. I don’t understand why this advice is so callous.
If the LW had indicated in any way that her partner was being less than good to her, then I would understand. But here are his worst traits, according to the LW: he is sad that he has been unemployed for so long. He doubts his own worth and ‘brushes off’ her attempts to reassure him of his worth. And he ‘seems a bit jealous’ – which is to say, this is something the LW is intuiting, and not an actual statement he has made in an accusatory fashion.
My GOD. Stop the fucking presses. Someone who is unemployed is jealous of other people’s employment? Someone who has insecurity issues is not able to hear from other people that they are worthy? CLEARLY A TERRIBLE PERSON CONSIDER WHETHER YOU REALLY WANT TO BE WITH THIS ASSHOLE.
There are jerks out there. There are people who will try to make you feel bad about your accomplishments, to pull you down to make themselves feel bigger. But that is not what the letter writer wrote. She asked for advice about how to be supportive differently, because the way she was attempting to provide support did not seem to be working.
The advice she got was “Your partner is unworthy of support, give up the ghost.” And that seems really shitty to me.
Thank you thank you thank you, Yes to all of this.
DING DING DING, yes, this, totally. I sincerely hope the LW reads this comment.
And I think to follow up on this, the difficulty in answering the question that the LW asked is that support looks different for everyone.
When I’ve been unemployed, I find questions about the job search from every friend and acquaintance to be really unhelpful, because job searching is already so crushing that having to recount every failure just makes it worse. But I’m sure there are people who WANT to be asked, because it gives them an opportunity to vent, or because it helps them process, or just because it shows the asker cares. Unless you’re going to give me a lead (and even then sometimes), let’s just talk about something else.
So the generic advice is continue to listen when he talks about how he’s feeling, encourage him to do things he is interested in, even if they won’t bring in money. Negotiate your household tasks in a way that is fair. I would say don’t just give him generic “you’re so smart and talented” praise, but praise specific achievements (“this dinner is delicious”) and thank him for tasks around the house (even if they’re his job) [NB, I’m not saying this in a “men need to be praised for household tasks” way – my boyfriend thanks me all the time for things like “filling the Britta”, and even if I did them mostly for my own benefit, it is nice to have the appreciation].
Make sure you still have time to connect as a couple. A date night, physical contact, gchat during the day, whatever works for you to make sure he knows that you do still value him and want to be in the relationship (e.g. don’t just tell him, show him).
And lastly, the hardest one of all – talk to him and ask him what would feel supportive. Just like no one bra is right for everyone, so too with other kinds of support. What he needs and wants may be different from what you would need and want in the same situation.
Oh, this is a good point. This is pretty much what we ultimately wound up doing, though it took us longer to get there than it might, because I have Stuff about initiating conversations about what isn’t working.
We ultimately concluded that it was helpful for me to gently poke him about things he intended to do, and how often I should do that. He, in turn, needed to communicate with me when he was having harder than normal days, and to tell me that I was being helpful when he was not in the midst of a depressive self-hate spiral. (So, like, a day later he would say “Thank you for being nice to me last night, it helped, I’m sorry I was grumpy at you while you were doing it.”)
We figured out that he really wasn’t capable of self-motivating at that time, so we worked on that by picking one thing for him to do of his own initiative (this was: taking a walk to get his strength/energy back up as part of his rehab) and having me request everything else I needed done. Then we added things he did of his own initiative month by month. (Cooking, dishes, laundry, eventually job applications.)
Communicating what I needed to keep trucking along as the “supportive” one during a difficult time was important. I don’t mind carrying most of the weight temporarily, but I did very much need to hear that my efforts were seen and appreciated, and he was able to deliver that.
Yes, “ask your partner” is frequently some of the most difficult advice to follow
Truth. Especially when your previous experience with asking someone you live with about how to solve a problem you’re having with their behavior had always resulted in furious anger.
Why weren’t you in my house two hours ago to explain this to me? My husband and I just had a “shitty night conversation” about this very thing. We’re (fingers crossed) at the very tail end of *many* years’ worth of underemployment, and he’s having difficulty with self-motivating due to feelings of helplessness. It’s been a pretty slow process with inchworm movement, and the background check just went in this afternoon. So it’s all completely out of his control for a whole week while he waits.
We’re different in that this drains and worries him, and were I him, I’d throw up my hands tra-la-la, I’ve done everything I could, let’s run a marathon. Couple that with a week wherein he had very few shifts and was home a lot but didn’t really DO much to my eyes, and a weekend wherein I somehow became Suzie Homemaker, and I really felt an inadequacy of effort. There’s some Little Red Henning here, too, but I just really wanted him to acknowledge that I was working hard at home and on his emotional front and to get an obvious attempt back.
I tried to communicate that, and did a really shitty job of it. I need to take notes from this chain, because I think I’ll need them for the next few days.
It is so hard to start that conversation about what you need when you need help versus what your partner needs, I think because if you’ve been in a long-term relationship, you think that they (or you) should know already.
My husband was out of work for a couple of months last year, and I was on maternity leave, so we were both home, tripping over each other, effectively. He had some depression about the situation because he had risen quite quickly in his previous position and when he applied for similar jobs was being dismissed out of hand essentially for being too young for a position of authority. It was frustrating and scary. I was as supportive as I could be, but my methods weren’t hitting the right buttons, which was hard for both of us.
More recently, I went through a period of anxiety (which turned out to be a combination of contraceptives messing with my head and some tricky negotiating-the-workplace-after-maternity-leave stuff) and we had the same problem. My husband says things like “What can I do for you?” and my answer is “nothing” or “i don’t know”. I need him to offer me something specific, or a couple of options (like a cup of tea, or to watch the kids for a while so I can go wander the bookstore) – I can’t cope with vague queries when I’m in crisis. It was hard both times to broach the subject, but it’s made a big difference.
THANK YOU
I’ve been going through about six months of severe underemployment, and struggling with mental health issues. My partner is the one supporting us, and is also doing the majority of the housework and emotional labour in the relationship right now (because housework is the first thing to go for me when mental health issues strike). I’m down, and anxious, and feel every day like I’m not pulling my weight.
Should he leave me because of this?? No, it’s ridiculous. He’s supporting me and helping me through a difficult time that is temporary, as I have done for him in the past. I am 100% appreciative of the work he’s doing (while I am envious of his current functionality), but I know that things will get better, and that it means that I’ll be able to be there for him when his circumstances get rough. Stressing about obligations I can’t meet does nothing other than distract me from the goals I can meet (as he reminds me frequently).
I agree that this advice is too light on the idea that it might be a temporary fixable mental health issue, and that if it is, perhaps getting him mental health help might fix the problem.
I have been the person with mental health issues and underemployment that made me not-my-best, and I have been the partner of that person, and so I definitely feel that lack too.
But.
Just because someone is doing something because of their mental illness and bad circumstances, and would not do that thing otherwise, that only explains the behavior. It does not excuse it, and it does not obligate anyone to stick around to tolerate it.
Surely, if these behaviors are only sort of annoying, and we’re making a best effort to deal with our own shit, we hope our loved ones will stick with us, support us, and help us get the help we need. And it very much sounds like LW1 is in this sort of scenario— the one where a good nudge, a little professional help, and maybe a touch of luck will turn things around. And if the shoe were on the other foot, he’d be willing to look out for her in the same way.
But for some people, the way their particular mental health issues manifest, and the way they choose to deal with them— there are some people who, when in crisis, do things that are Not Okay. And even then, if it’s a known issue, if the person is on board, you can plan ahead, make a Mad Map, do what you have to do…. But it’s okay, even good, for there to be a line. If the good parts are dwindling, and the problems are mounting, and the person isn’t able or willing to make meaningful change to help themselves, it may not make sense to stay.
Again, I’ve been the person with the problem. I been on the other side, and in one situation I left, and in one situation I stayed, and think I could have handled all of it better. I think there’s a middle ground of advice— that says that knowing how someone handles adversity, including how someone handles their own mental illness, is important. And boundaries are important. And we do what we can do for our loved ones, and sometimes that involves being very forgiving for someone encountering difficulties. But knowing our own boundaries, and communicating them well, is important to protecting ourselves. Hopefully we help our partners and protect ourselves at the same time, without being in conflict, but we can’t always. When we can’t is always the most painful.
Yes, thank you. Also good points here.
Beautifully put!
This is very, very well said, and describes my own experiences as perfectly as one could. Especially the last paragraph. Thank you for saying it.
Thank you for articulating so well what made me uncomfortable about this advice (and a lot of this recent talk on emotional labour as well). I feel like there is a certain harshness used when talking about partners that we wouldn’t necessarily use with regard to friends (or internet friends).
Aunt Acid is usually great with “normal”, everyday problems, but usually not great with anything related to mental health. There’s often an assumption that people are doing whatever they’re doing on purpose or because of who they are, instead of realising that circumstances and mental illness could be influencing the person in ways they themselves don’t like. But you can give the benefit of the doubt and still give a good, feminist answer (for example, even if this guy is depressed it still doesn’t mean that the LW should run themselves into the ground without any regards to their own wellbeing, so we don’t have to assume he’s a selfish jerk in order to give her good advice). I agree that this wasn’t a good answer.
I’m actually not really into the answer to LW2 either, because it seems to me to assume that there MUST be an emotionally significant reason for not having told her partner. Which, there might be, but there also might not. People do things without mysterious underlying causes too.
THANK YOU. As someone who has recently struggled through both sides of this issue, the advice to LW1 really seemed off and unhelpful to me. Over the last few years both my husband and I have been unemployed for longish stretches. Neither of us took is particularly well, because what exactly is easy about being involuntarily unemployed? I in particular was pretty badly depressed throughout my most recent period of unemployment, and often found it difficult to clean myself, let alone the apartment.
Was it extra pressure on mr. biscuit? Yes.
Was I doing it on purpose? No.
Is depression a moral failure? No.
For fuck’s sake.
Thank you a thousand times for saying this.
Relatedly: I know that ’emotional labour’ is a valid and useful description, and that it covers nearly everything good and generous in people’s daily behaviour, and that the essay which conceptualised and named it was a boon to a lot of people. But some of the ways in which people apply the term are disturbing. (Not the letter-writer! They sound truly kind.)
Giving someone kindness which they clearly want, which buoys them up in the midst of difficulties, is worthy of respect. Giving someone whatever kindly-meant gestures you can manage and being uncertain whether it’s helpful or not – because obligation and dependency set a lot of conversational tripwires, and many situations aren’t perfectly fixable – is also worthy of respect; it accounts for most of the actual help given in the world. Doing someone favours which they’ve indicated they don’t want, claiming credit and martyr points for this as emotional labour, and blaming the recipient for being “sullen” if they subsequently neglect both to consider themselves beholden to you and to look happy about it, is… something else entirely. (Not that the letter-writer is doing this at all; it’s the advisor who bothers me.)
Emotional labour is real, yes. And having to perform sustained cheerfulness and/or gratitude can be a particularly draining and humiliating form of it.
(Also, having been out of work a couple of years ago, I can report that there’s no way to win against the pincer formation of contradictory attitude expectations. If you’re the slightest bit realistic about your prospects or your worth, some people will blame you for “lacking confidence” or “putting out negative energy” (Lord, that phrase should be punishable by Vetinari’s scorpion pit); but if you try to be Pollyanna the way they want, a larger and more normal group of people will be disgusted with you for being entitled and irresponsible. Unemployed people are *supposed* to be ashamed of themselves; they’re just supposed to do it quietly, where it won’t bother anyone else. (This would in fact be a reasonable option! But when you try to, the pincer turns out to be a caltrop, propped up into spiky unavoidability by the people who *will not let the subject alone*. As in, will seek you out in a crowd while you desperately avoid eye contact, and open every conversation for six months by asking if you have a job yet.) So it sounds as though the latter-writer’s partner is compromising as well as he can, by being generally neutral-shading-to-unhappy, and there’s nothing in the letter about him treating them rudely or grumpily.)
LW 1 – Captain awkward had a similar question late last year that might help too. http://captainawkward.com/2015/12/29/813-labor-le…
Yes, this. I was on LW1's side of the fence in a relationship that looked a little like this. My partner was definitely struggling with some untreated depression while unemployed. He refused to go to therapy, though, and nothing I said or did seemed to make anything better, and I only got anger and resentment back when I tried. (I did ask him what he wanted me to do to help him, and not even following his specific instructions for assistance once he went into self-hatred spiral mode did any good. It only made him more angry with me.) Eventually he projected his jealousy and self-loathing onto me in a way that, in retrospect, was totally unacceptable, and made it clear that what he really wanted was for me to seem smaller so that he could feel big again. Yes, he was depressed and he needed help, but I wasn't qualified to give the help he needed, and he had no right to make me feel small like that.
I really wish I'd stuck to my boundaries and refused to let him treat me that way. I don't think LW1's letter has any obvious signs of the kinds of red flags I was encountering in my relationship, so maybe the approach Aunt Acid is suggesting doesn't really apply to her. But I wish I'd been able to read it during that time in my life.
Dear Letter Writer #1, if you read down to here, What really struck me as missing in the advice is that you guys just moved cities. The first year in a new city SUCKKKKSS. This year I moved to a new city to be with my partner and my job hunt has taken nearly as long as your partners and it’s been rough going. I had already moved across the country to a new city before so i knew going in how hard it would be to get resettled here, and boy was I right!
One of the big thing that hits me is that especially for men, but really for almost anyone aged out of the college demographic, its hard to make new friends in a new place without some kind of anchor, like a job to help the process. You need that glue of seeing people regularly and getting to know each other and developing ties in an unhurried way. At least for me, I don’t really feel like I belong to a place until I have someone to go get drinks with and a job. And I’m reasonably good at making new friends.
One thing I think a supportive partner could say to someone facing a long period of unemployment is that they really believe in the restorative power of getting out of the effing house. It made a huge difference for my mood and our ability to face my long unemployment when I got an internship. Even though it’s unpaid, two days a week i’m out of the house with people who aren’t my partner. It got me up in the mornings and even added a bit of energy to my job search.
And that is something I think you can encourage, whatever it is. Tell him, we’re ok for now even though it’s taking time for you to find a job, but you still need to do something and be something besides being unemployed, so you gotta find some other part of your identity, something that gets you out of the house 1-2 days or nights a week- volunteering or the gym or gaming or anything. First of all, it can’t possibly hurt the job hunt, it might even weirdly help it, and it will also give him something to care about and feel good and engaged with.
And the other thing I think that I’d recommend is just to be in the trenches with him. My partner was being supportive, and telling me that “jobs are just around the corner, and I know you are so smart and it’s going to be great”, etc. But what really helped me was when I was like, “things just SUCK right now, and it was easy in my other city” and he said, “yeah, things do suck! We’re going to be ok, but it sucks right now.” I just needed someone else to be on my side of how shitty it was to be going through a move and unemployment. So that might also be something- if you are jumping to comfort or fix things you might be creating a distance, where you might just want to see if first you can just be sharing it together. Because it’s totally unfair and maddeningly unclear what makes the job thing stick. Sometimes you hunt and hustle and get nothing and sometimes you get blind dumb luck and it’s impossible to know which one will happen as you go through it. And everyone else was like, “it’ll be fine” or “have you tried [something i’d tried]?” He was the only one who just….didn’t hassle me like that, and it made a huge difference.
This is excellent advice. Oh man getting out of the house! So important. My partner is currently going through some underemployment and that’s been a big deal for both of us. She gets out of the house and feels better, and I feel less like I’m her sole contact with society.
When you’re job-hunting, it can feel like the only basis of your self-worth is whether or not someone interviews you or whatever. So having other areas to establish a sense of self is so important.
Thank you for saying this, Linette. I was excited to see the headline because that's what my partner and I are going through right now, but… that advice was not very compassionate, and didn't seem to address the situation that the LW seems to be in, that you were in, or that I am in.
THANK YOU. As someone who has recently struggled through both sides of this issue, the advice to LW1 really seemed off and unhelpful to me. Over the last few years both my husband and I have been unemployed for longish stretches. Neither of us took is particularly well, because what exactly is easy about being involuntarily unemployed? I in particular was pretty badly depressed throughout my most recent period of unemployment, and often found it difficult to clean myself, let alone the apartment.
Was it extra pressure on mr. biscuit? Yes.
Was I doing it on purpose? No.
Is depression a moral failure? No.
For fuck's sake.
I would put legos in all his shoes to start with.
Justice will be slow, untraceable and basically end with someone's nervous breakdown.
I think waaaayy too much was read into the boyfriends behavior in the first letter. All she said was that he was feeling down, and he brushed off her praise. That’s it. He’s going through a tough time, and he’s not contributing the same as she is, so he”s a little brusque? What part of this is so egregious exactly? Also, you seem awful judgmental for someone being out of work for 6 months. How lucky you are to never be unemployed for a long period of time. Do you have any idea how fucking scary, embarrassing and debilitating that is?! I agree that she cannot make someone feel one way or the other about their situation. And she should absolutely not feel guilty for her success. “You’re a good girlfriend to want to be supportive of your committed partner. Ask him what he needs from you, and how support feels to him. He’s more likely to be honest and open up without feeling placated or condescended to.” There, I fixed your advice for you. Also, this was my first angry internet comment! I shall celebrate with artichoke dip.