I keep thinking I can definitively say who is my favorite and am unable to (obviously not Vee or any of the male characters whatsoever)
bgprincipessa+5
Yeah, it was unreadable – looks removed for now, maybe they’ll figure out how to fix it!
There are so many favorites. I do enjoy Caputo though. Not on a favorite level, but that last scene with Fig…
bgprincipessa+68
I do not and will not be convinced to care that Vee’s ending was a bit too neat, because Rosa is a goddamned badass and I’ve never loved something more.
mkpatter+2
I’m not convinced she’s gone, tbqh.
hugpunch+13
Now when I’m in the grocery store, I contemplate ramming people with my cart and saying, “Always so rude, that one.”
great_dane+37
Needs more nuns and banjolele.
hugpunch+39
Also “RUN NUUUNNSSS!”
Becca+26
“Sir, what do you want me to do about the nuns?” “The nuns?” “There’s a gaggle of nuns outside.” “A…gaggle?” “You know. Like a murder of crows. A gaggle of nuns.”
bgprincipessa+35
I’m going to get the quote wrong, but: “This is a song about the divorce my parents should have had”
Laura+16
This is a song about my mom and dad And the divorce that they should have had!
evieskye+20
“I fell in with the bad nuns!”
hugpunch+24
I screamed and paused the show when Kit Keller was on the plane. Then rewound, because my ladyfriend was in the bathroom and she HAD to see this reveal. Also, Piper, help Kit Keller when she’s getting her ass beat by old ladies! She played all-women baseball for YOU and for FREEDOM!
evieskye+62
How much stress Morello going AWOL and hanging out in a tub caused me: So much. All of it. All of the stress.
bgprincipessa+33
Nails biting, gray hair growing stress. Yes. I absolutely loved her using the ceramic frog to – oh, that’s not a key, she is breaking a window. Okay. We’re going there.
samburgers+14
FROM: Samburgers SENT: Thursday, June 19 2014, 11:55 AM TO: [Reply All] SUBJECT: Re: Season Two of Orange …
Thanks for all your hard work putting this presentation together, Erin.
Ping me when you have a few free minutes and we’ll talk offline about your GLARING NEGLIGENCE TO MENTION HOW HORRIBLE IT WAS TO NOT STARE AT ALEX ALL SEASON ugggghhhh, alex.
FROM: Martinipie SENT: Thursday June 19 2014, 11:38 AM PST TO: Samburgers SUBJECT: Re: Alex Vause
I see your Vause and raise you Poussey. That is all. Over and out.
Martinipie, feeling confused about what acronymic postgrad degree to get and so leaving them all off Bookseller x666
monkeybutter
SCATTER THE NUNS
Everything about Rosa's escape is fucking amazing.
Frumiosa+6
braVO to you ma’am. Just glorious. But Taystee doing the splits was more whoa than Big Boo gettin’ weird? Okay….
deitybox
braVO to you ma'am. Just glorious.
But Taystee doing the splits was more whoa than Big Boo gettin' weird? Okay….
rawrchel+15
nichols had a back story about being a drug addict and her mom…right?
bgprincipessa+7
Yeah, but it’s fairly underdeveloped, especially compared to all the rich backstories we got this season.
literarysara+21
The love word cloud is so pretty!
Larry. Larry, Larry, Larry. The less I see of him, the better. But I will give him this:
1. Larry is That Guy: he thinks he’s a good guy, and maybe he could or would be, but he’s so steeped in privilege that he sucks and cannot help it. I appreciate a purposeful representation of the type. 2. Jason Biggs nails it. 3. Larry pulls some dick moves on Piper. Piper’s whole relationship with him is basically a dick move. They each keep us from being too sympathetic with the other one.
Basically, I’m mesmerized by their relationship for the same reason I’m mesmerized by Closer: they are just a couple of ordinary people being extraordinarily cruel, and feeling entirely justified.
bgprincipessa+12
The love word cloud has ‘pizza’ at least twice (from what I can see), which is as it should be.
Laura+14
Based on the *mumble* amount of time I’ve spent on ohnotheydidnt, I suspect that Jason Biggs’ performance is less Jason Biggs understand Larry’s psychology and more his natural personality shining through.
literarysara+9
I’m okay with that. I watched his Behind the Bars interview on Netflix and got the impression that it was more a brilliant casting decision than brilliant acting, but either way, the role is nailed.
robotneedslove+8
My boyfriend and I like to heckle Larry when he comes on screen. FUCK YOU LARRY.
figwiggin+39
Oh my god, oh my god. I just finished the season on Tuesday night. Barbara Rosenblat (Miss Rosa) is THE BOMB. She acted her ass off.
Thoughts:
– I thought I could not care less about Larry but I was wrong. He is Worst Song, Played on Ugliest Guitar. – I could listen to Morello talk about anything forever because of her adorable voice and accent. – Suzanne breaks my heart more than any other character, even Poussey. – Was NOT expecting Black Cindy’s backstory. – I miss Miss Claudette. 🙁 She and Miss Rosa should team up. – More Blanca, plz. – I got Yoga Jones and Sister Jane mixed up and was confused when they started showing Sister Jane’s backstory. WHOOPS.
figwiggin+25
Also, the Old Lady Gang!!!!
rosalineee+19
Ahhh I loved the old lady gang so much. They need their own chart.
bgprincipessa+23
I loved Sister Jane’s unabashed defense of the sexy chapter in her book. “It’s for the book club mommies!”
phlippin+35
Ugh, Suzanne’s story just tears me up. There was some really interesting discussion on Tom and Lorenzo about whether her backstory is a commentary on interracial adoption. Personally, I don’t think it’s meant to be a condemnation of it, but I think the story certainly points out some of the hazards, such as the effects of Suzanne’s seeming isolation from the black community and how her mom’s determination to ensure that she was not treated differently may have blinded her to Suzanne’s growing psychological problems. For sure though, I think the most evil thing Vee did was her using Suzanne’s desperation for a friend and mother figure to turn her into a thug and a patsy. That was so AWFUL to watch!
redheadedgirl+12
I think you’re absolutely right. On all counts.
mmejoy+9
Except I thought it was a little odd that Suzanne seemed so desperate for a mother figure, as we saw her with her mother at Thanksgiving (and in flashbacks). It seemed like she gets love/support there, though the racial issue does complicate it.
phlippin+18
Oh for sure Suzanne’s parents loved and supported her, but as we saw when Suzanne attacked Piper in the flashback, she also has a lot of feelings of anger on account of her mom’s tendency to push her to prove herself, whether Suzanne was ready/capable or not.
mmejoy+3
True.
Laura+22
I can’t speak to the interracial adoption issue because I’m white and was raised by my bioparents, but as someone on the autism spectrum, Suzanne’s relationship with her mom really rang true to me. A lot of parents of neuroatypical kids tend to try and push them to be “normal” because their kids can succeed, really! And of course it ends up backfiring- either drastically like in Suzanne’s case or more subtly with the child resenting the parent- because the pushy parent isn’t taking into account that there ARE things they child can’t do.
rallisaurus+14
I love Morello’s voice too! Her and Miss Rosa could have started a radio station or something.
ellehmariat+21
The whole time during Black Cindy’s backstory I was really tense because I kept expecting something really bad to happen to her daughter that would be the reason she was in prison. I’m glad it didn’t go that way.
evieskye+8
Yes! That was also stressful! I kept saying “Don’t get in the car!” and “Crap, please don’t let that poor child get shot waiting outside the apartment!”
mmejoy+5
All of those things. I covered my eyes at some point.
phlippin+7
Me too! Every flashback scene fills me with anxiety because I’m bracing myself for the awful thing they did that landed them in jail. It reminds me of how I felt watching the opening of every Six Feet Under, waiting for someone to die.
ellehmariat+6
Also maybe I missed it but did we ever get the specific reasons why Cindy and Poussey are in jail?
combledore+5
I don’t know about Poussey, but I think Cindy got caught stealing? You don’t see the arrest or anything, but I jumped to that conclusion.
aravisthequeen+10
I wondered if Cindy’s mom turned her in to her work for theft, knowing that her daughter could not or would not be a good guardian, so she did it to ensure she would retain custody.
bgprincipessa+11
Supposedly, Poussey is there for some sort of marijuana selling. But we don’t know that for sure – I mean, we were also led to believe that Morello was in for an eBay scam, so make of that what you will.
themnemosyne+40
I have such Conflicting Feelings about Morello, like, she’s one of the characters I most enjoy but also the character that, if it were genderswapped over to a male, would terrify me, and I find that so problematic I’m not sure how to handle it
literarysara+19
Oh man, me too. I mean stalking and next-level lying is creepy, period. Red-flag-waving wrong behavior for anyone, male or female. And it’s weird because it’s like. . . compartmentalized from the rest of her personality. She’s not a repeat creeper, like the horoscope lady in the Chicago prison. Nor do the thought patterns that contribute to her creeping seep into other other behaviors or relationships. She’s perfectly lovely and sweet, and I love watching her, but I am confused by the way her character is drawn. Other characters seem more consistent: like, whats wrong in Caputo and Healy’s love lives is what’s wrong in the rest of their lives too.
ofTrebond+32
I thought that was what made it so interesting. She’s not the standard entitled abusive stalker with repeated building red flags – she’s scary because she’s completely disconnected from reality. Everyone thinks she’s so sweet and harmless, and her obviously imaginary fiance is just a prison coping mechanism. And then we find out that there is a very good reason that she is in prison and she is one of the most mentally ill people there.
themnemosyne+28
I mean she’s sweet and friendly and funny and hopefully optimistic and she STALKED A DUDE SHE WENT ON ONE DATE WITH AND TOLD EVERYONE THEY WERE GETTING MARRIED AND SHE TRIED TO BLOW UP HIS GIRLFRIEND’S CAR WITH AN IED AND BROKE INTO THEIR HOUSE SO SHE COULD PRETEND SHE WAS WITH HIM AND LIVING THEIR LIFE
that shit is TERRIFYING
aravisthequeen+33
As a character I find her deeply terrifying and creepy and she doesn’t even realize it, which is ten thousand times MORE creepy and worse. And I am legit confused by people who are like “Oh, I just love Morello!” because she is a predator.
samburgers+38
It’s deeply troubling to me that Morello isn’t universally terrifying to, uh, everyone? We’re not afraid of a dangerous, violent, delusional person because she’s a woman and women are adorable and not to be taken seriously?
I feel a little sick when I check myself and find that, yep, I find her harmless because she’s small and cute. NOT OKAY NOT OKAY NOT OKAY.
aravisthequeen+5
+1 +1 +1 +1
chasingperfect+7
i think in real life i would find morello deeply, deeply terrifying on a really fundamental level because she has NO CONNECTION to reality. i don’t even think of her as a predator exactly, though she is–she just has no connection with reality. there just isn’t anything there. she clearly needs a psych hospital, not a prison. but on tv, i love watching her, and i thought that twist was shocking and surprising and creepy and scary in all the best ways.
deliciousrecoil+26
I think that Morello is a more subtle comment on the link between mental health and being in the prison system than Suzanne.
She is just as scary as Suzanne’s eye-contact-while-peeing thing.
paperbgprincess+21
I think this too. Her delusions, while totally unacceptable in the outside world, are exactly what is allowing her to be a high-functioning inmate. A couple of them have told her that Morello is the only person who is kind and welcoming when they arrive, and nobody notices that she’s maybe the most unstable of them all. And she’s never going to get any treatment, because she doesn’t seem crazy, so when she gets out she’s just going to keep going and probably escalate.
Laura+8
She and Suzanne make me really sad because as long as they’re swimming around in the general population, they’re clearly not going to get any help or counselling. And they both badly need it.
hugpunch+19
What I’m most confused about is why the prison, knowing why she’s in prison, would be OK with letting her drive around in the non-prison world.
mmejoy+13
Yes, that. No one’s checking the milage? Or the gas? Or, you know, taking the keys away and making the unstable person come in the hospital while the bank robber has chemo?
aravisthequeen+8
Yes! We discussed that briefly in the link roundup the other day, but seriously, of all the prisoners? HER?
jfruh+20
I think it’s because she’s been such a model inmate for all the time she’s there. I find it interesting how little the prisoners seem to discuss their criminal histories and backstories, and certainly the staff doesn’t seem acquainted with them at all. I assumed that whoever made the decision to put her in charge of the van didn’t check up or didn’t care.
I thought her flashback was pretty masterfully set up, actually; the set up at the beginning where she was doing some minor-league credit card fraud, and we thought, “Oh, yeah, that seems about right.” But then. Hoo boy.
allofthewhine+33
As much as I hated Soso, I loved her singalong to “Stay”.
bitzyboozer+5
That was legitimately awesome but between that and the “Breakfast at Tiffany’s” jam I feel like this show has overestimated the general population’s familiarity with 90s alternapop one-hit wonders juuuuuust a smidge.
plspassthePinot+51
(1) ROSA! ROSAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!! She was EVERYTHING and I love her maybe even more than the others for being a True Criminal, no mitigating circumstances, no #Society, just “Yeah, I love the rush and the smell of money”. Also, you’re right girl, sometimes people are JUST RUDE.
(2) Vee’s backstory w RJ makes me cry / vomit she takes literally everything she can away from this chid she was supposed to raise! Poussey calls her a pedophile w/o the sex AND THEN HER FLASHBACK AHHHHH!
(3) Poussey seemed… extremely good at sex for a hs teen? Was I the only 16 yr old struggling to see what the big deal was w “hand stuff” and generally being bored?
(4) I actually enjoyed Piper this season for the most part; her detached “I am a criminal, I deserve to be here” was a nice change from last season. Plus the Larry-Polly stuff seemed equally as cruel as her behavior w/in the context of their relationship. The scene where they ask for her blessing during visitation is maybe my fav sequence of narcissism on tv.
bgprincipessa+19
re: #4: Piper was a great character this season. She was much more in control of herself, and while still a little know-it-all-y and all that, but it was more in line with someone who’s been in prison for (how long now? a year?). And her reaction to them asking for her blessing was spot on.
#1: I have just been saying “Always so rude, that one” on repeat for over a week now. I can’t get enough of it. Similarly, I think Black Cindy’s story was along a different line as well. She’s not as much a product of her life – her mom seems wonderful – and she’s really just not a good person. You don’t necessarily feel sympathy for her circumstances, she pretty much deserves to be there, unqualified.
Aunt_Agatha+18
Yeah, I really enjoyed Piper this season! Among my friends and acquaintances who watch the show, I have noticed a tendency for those who are white to fall all over themselves talking about how boring Piper is and why aren’t we more focused on the other characters who are POC because she’s so boring and they’re so interesting, and I suspect that there is some liberal white guilt going on there.
I also find it bizarre when people complain that she is self-involved. Who on this show is not self-involved? Is it really so inappropriate and wrong to be concerned about your own safety and comfort when you’re in prison? I think one of the most interesting themes on the show is that you have to be somewhat selfish to survive in an environment like that.
large_marge+21
guy guys GUYS I just found out yesterday Yoga Jones is also the voice of Patty Mayonnaise from Doug. MIND BLOWN.
plspassthePinot+5
omg that makes so much sense i hear it now
guppytroutmermaid+23
Pleeeease let Season 3 be all about the Latinas! I loved Flaca and Maritza’s mean girls/Statler & Waldorf-esque quips off to the side this season, but I’m looking forward to them being front and center.
rallisaurus+18
Oh I am so hoping we get their back story in season 3! More of them and less of Daya.
bgprincipessa+18
Daya is so boring, and that whole relationship is obviously so effed, but I also feel an incredible amount of sympathy for her. She’s completely immature in every way, especially emotionally, and who wouldn’t be with THAT WOMAN for a mother? God help her.
What makes *less* sense is John’s motives in all this. Can he really not see how childish she is? I don’t feel like I have enough of a handle on his whole deal. Who loses a limb to a hot tub in a high-income country?
Laura+5
Based on Bennet’s behaviour towards the other inmates (i.e. throwing Maritza in SHU) he comes across to me like he’s just as invested in having power over the prisoners as Pornstache and Healey- he’s just less overtly threatening because he doesn’t vocalize it as much.
literarysara+17
Yes! That scene where he is freaking out and Pornstache-style sweeping all the inmates’ belongings onto the floor, and Pornstache of all people hauls him away to chill out? Chilling. It’s like: Pornstache has deeply internalized toxic patriarchal masculinity almost to the point of parody; Bennet has not, but when he feels that he has to measure up to alpha male standards and performs them in an uncontrolled way, he’s just as dangerous. Maybe even more so.
combledore+9
Super-late response, but I think Bennett is worse than Pornstache because Bennett thinks he’s a good guy. When he, you know, ALSO raped Daya.
combledore+19
Everything Flaca says makes me want to be best friends with her. I too scorn Bennett’s musical taste and would enjoy being brought gay porn mags in prison.
hugpunch+82
Can we also talk about the guy who would always visit his lady with their daughter, and he barely said six words and then was all of a sudden talking like crazy to the daughter?
I loved him.
bgprincipessa+31
YES! When he found out that she was going to get to stay in NY, I absolutely loved that little mini story. It’s a perfect plotline of show, not tell. We barely get any information on them but it’s still so heart-warming when he opens up the floodgates and starts talking nonstop.
aravisthequeen+30
omg, yes, I was almost weeping when he was just cheerfully babbling away to their little girl.
Passing_Strange+21
I felt so tense when Caputo told John he could give her the good news that she’d be staying, I was sure it was going to backfire somehow and it would turn out she’d have to go anyway. So glad she didn’t!
HotDoom+14
Yes! I was FUH-reaking out that the cease to the transfers would backfire. My ovaries did carthweels when the dad was chatting to the baby though. I MEAN. What a charm bag.
Snooj+4
I kept waiting for her to ask him why he wasn’t talking and for him to say “The baby keeps me up all night, I’m sorry I’m always so tired when I come here!” I just want a nice ending for those two.
mkpatter+39
The only thing that could make Larry’s position on the second bubble chart even better is if his bubble was also on fire.
evieskye+13
Anybody else convince themselves that Yoga Jones is just old/human Patty Mayonnaise? (Related- how Larry-ish do you think a grown-up Doug would be?)
mmejoy+23
Gloria is a marvelous kitchen witch who has been given access to a kitchen. She will set. you. on. fire. or use singed dog hair to get you run over.
Do not irritate Gloria.
mmejoy+10
I mean, really. To paraphrase – Poison? Pfft. Movie witches use poison apples. LET’S DO SOMETHING SO MUCH BETTER/MORE AWFUL.
vmartinipie+35
“Catholic plus” was one of the best lines of the season, as well as “I mostly do that with my face.” Gloria rocketed up to the top of my Faves List!
naglayaxuliganka+8
There are many good points being made, but I have two petty complaints. First, the astrologist-bunkie in Chicago claims to be from Muskegon but points to like, Jackson, or somewhere. Get a map, guys! Second, what’s with the insistence on ba-BUSH-ka? Red is supposed to be Russian. No Russian says it that way.
That aside, I just really, really, really love Poussey. Can she get her own show?
Voland+5
Oh thank god someone else is annoyed by baBUSHka. Also, they keep calling her mamushka IT IS SO WRONG SO VERY WRONG how hard was it to look up “mommy” in the dictionary?
Errors in Russian subject matter in movies drive me legit insane.
DISGRUNTLED+3
Oh my god the terrible Russian drove me crazy 🙁 like healy’s wife was not a native speaker and shit. Piroshki babOOshka is it that hard to find Mamochka NASTROVIYE FOR FUCKS’ SAKE
normal_catlady+9
When Piper was perjurying herself, didn’t it seem like Alex was next door and could hear what she was saying?
HotDoom+19
Ahhhh this season was SO. GOOD. 1. Even though Vee was HORRIBLE, I thought Lorraine Toussant did an amazing acting job with her. She played manipulative evil so well. 2. I loved the character development this season, extending into the guards and bureaucrats. The nun song on the banjolele was a treat. 3. GOOD GOD I HATE LARRY. 4. GOOD GOD I LOVE POUSSEY/NICHOLS 5. Oh Suzanne 🙁
Sara Davis
I'm okay with that. I watched his Behind the Bars interview on Netflix and got the impression that it was more a brilliant casting decision than brilliant acting, but either way, the role is nailed.
Sara Davis
Yes! That scene where he is freaking out and Pornstache-style sweeping all the inmates' belongings onto the floor, and Pornstache of all people hauls him away to chill out? Chilling. It's like: Pornstache has deeply internalized toxic patriarchal masculinity almost to the point of parody; Bennet has not, but when he feels that he has to measure up to alpha male standards and performs them in an uncontrolled way, he's just as dangerous. Maybe even more so.
pete+2
yo
vanessa steck
i think in real life i would find morello deeply, deeply terrifying on a really fundamental level because she has NO CONNECTION to reality. i don't even think of her as a predator exactly, though she is–she just has no connection with reality. there just isn't anything there. she clearly needs a psych hospital, not a prison. but on tv, i love watching her, and i thought that twist was shocking and surprising and creepy and scary in all the best ways.
bitzyboozer+8
Well I am very late here but did anyone else find the whole Fig-Caputo bj scene super problematic? Like because this woman was terrible we’re supposed to be ok with/cheer on her demeaning sexual exploitation (not necessarily the bj in itself but the reveal that he tricked her into doing it for nothing)? I tried to convince myself there was a reading where it’s a commentary on how even powerful women are reduced to and exploited for their sexuality eventually but I don’t think the show played it that way at all.
MaxMarvel+6
It didn’t bug me too much – I think it was because I read the scene as our first clue that Caputo is going to get corrupted by the power just like Fig was. It didn’t feel, to me at least, like we were supposed to be okay with it or even happy that it was happening to her. It served to emphasize how bad things were getting for her.
TaysteeGirl+1
I think it was supposed to be problematic on purpose, like MaxMarvel says. I felt awful for Fig and thought the writers meant it that way.
What I found really problematic is the idea that a male person can teach female people how their vaginas work … isn’t that the idea we’re trying to get away from? More female voices, less of males speaking for females?
M. Core+19
Sophia is not “a male person”. It is emphasized that she knows the subject well precisely *due to her experience as a [post-operation transgender] woman*
francesface+14
Sophia is a woman and she suffers just as much cisgender women do in a patriarchy.
Snooj+4
Exploitation aside, it sat poorly with me because Fig is always so clever, calculating, and prides herself on being one step ahead of Caputo. To have her so quickly take the bait without establishing terms first (“So you haven’t brought this up to anyone? And you’ll give me the files right after?”) seemed woefully out of character. They tried to paint a desperation scene of her life falling apart first to set the scene, but it simply didn’t work. Deus Ex Machinope.
talkingatthetv2+3
I LOVE your charts and graphs and thank you for all the work you put in. Also I’m glad that I just studied these for my GRE un July. My thougts: I don’t hate Larry/Polly as much as everyone else does – I think it was kind of inevitable and that they are perfect for each other. Like Healy and Bad Decisions chart. My Whoa chart would be different than yours – hitting the head against the dryer would be #1. I think Bennett is o.k. and comes through as a non-pussy just when you least expect it. Daya has shifted into a ridiculoue moral stance just because the writers are setting up some further action around Pornstache. I agree with comments that blowjob sscene was motivated by a midguided combination of demeaning and mysoginist ideas.
Awesome! Except for 16 being reaaaaaaaally tiny.
Larry’s chart is 100% perfect.
I keep thinking I can definitively say who is my favorite and am unable to (obviously not Vee or any of the male characters whatsoever)
Yeah, it was unreadable – looks removed for now, maybe they’ll figure out how to fix it!
There are so many favorites. I do enjoy Caputo though. Not on a favorite level, but that last scene with Fig…
I do not and will not be convinced to care that Vee’s ending was a bit too neat, because Rosa is a goddamned badass and I’ve never loved something more.
I’m not convinced she’s gone, tbqh.
Now when I’m in the grocery store, I contemplate ramming people with my cart and saying, “Always so rude, that one.”
Needs more nuns and banjolele.
Also “RUN NUUUNNSSS!”
“Sir, what do you want me to do about the nuns?”
“The nuns?”
“There’s a gaggle of nuns outside.”
“A…gaggle?”
“You know. Like a murder of crows. A gaggle of nuns.”
I’m going to get the quote wrong, but: “This is a song about the divorce my parents should have had”
This is a song about my mom and dad
And the divorce that they should have had!
“I fell in with the bad nuns!”
I screamed and paused the show when Kit Keller was on the plane. Then rewound, because my ladyfriend was in the bathroom and she HAD to see this reveal. Also, Piper, help Kit Keller when she’s getting her ass beat by old ladies! She played all-women baseball for YOU and for FREEDOM!
How much stress Morello going AWOL and hanging out in a tub caused me: So much. All of it. All of the stress.
Nails biting, gray hair growing stress. Yes.
I absolutely loved her using the ceramic frog to – oh, that’s not a key, she is breaking a window. Okay. We’re going there.
FROM: Samburgers
SENT: Thursday, June 19 2014, 11:55 AM
TO: [Reply All]
SUBJECT: Re: Season Two of Orange …
Thanks for all your hard work putting this presentation together, Erin.
Ping me when you have a few free minutes and we’ll talk offline about your GLARING NEGLIGENCE TO MENTION HOW HORRIBLE IT WAS TO NOT STARE AT ALEX ALL SEASON ugggghhhh, alex.
Thanks!
Samburgers, BA, MA, EMT, Esq
Administrative Information Design Liaison Manager
x8720
FROM: Martinipie
SENT: Thursday June 19 2014, 11:38 AM PST
TO: Samburgers
SUBJECT: Re: Alex Vause
I see your Vause and raise you Poussey. That is all. Over and out.
Martinipie, feeling confused about what acronymic postgrad degree to get and so leaving them all off
Bookseller
x666
SCATTER THE NUNS
Everything about Rosa's escape is fucking amazing.
braVO to you ma’am. Just glorious.
But Taystee doing the splits was more whoa than Big Boo gettin’ weird? Okay….
braVO to you ma'am. Just glorious.
But Taystee doing the splits was more whoa than Big Boo gettin' weird? Okay….
nichols had a back story about being a drug addict and her mom…right?
Yeah, but it’s fairly underdeveloped, especially compared to all the rich backstories we got this season.
The love word cloud is so pretty!
Larry. Larry, Larry, Larry. The less I see of him, the better. But I will give him this:
1. Larry is That Guy: he thinks he’s a good guy, and maybe he could or would be, but he’s so steeped in privilege that he sucks and cannot help it. I appreciate a purposeful representation of the type.
2. Jason Biggs nails it.
3. Larry pulls some dick moves on Piper. Piper’s whole relationship with him is basically a dick move. They each keep us from being too sympathetic with the other one.
Basically, I’m mesmerized by their relationship for the same reason I’m mesmerized by Closer: they are just a couple of ordinary people being extraordinarily cruel, and feeling entirely justified.
The love word cloud has ‘pizza’ at least twice (from what I can see), which is as it should be.
Based on the *mumble* amount of time I’ve spent on ohnotheydidnt, I suspect that Jason Biggs’ performance is less Jason Biggs understand Larry’s psychology and more his natural personality shining through.
I’m okay with that. I watched his Behind the Bars interview on Netflix and got the impression that it was more a brilliant casting decision than brilliant acting, but either way, the role is nailed.
My boyfriend and I like to heckle Larry when he comes on screen. FUCK YOU LARRY.
Oh my god, oh my god. I just finished the season on Tuesday night. Barbara Rosenblat (Miss Rosa) is THE BOMB. She acted her ass off.
Thoughts:
– I thought I could not care less about Larry but I was wrong. He is Worst Song, Played on Ugliest Guitar.
– I could listen to Morello talk about anything forever because of her adorable voice and accent.
– Suzanne breaks my heart more than any other character, even Poussey.
– Was NOT expecting Black Cindy’s backstory.
– I miss Miss Claudette. 🙁 She and Miss Rosa should team up.
– More Blanca, plz.
– I got Yoga Jones and Sister Jane mixed up and was confused when they started showing Sister Jane’s backstory. WHOOPS.
Also, the Old Lady Gang!!!!
Ahhh I loved the old lady gang so much. They need their own chart.
I loved Sister Jane’s unabashed defense of the sexy chapter in her book. “It’s for the book club mommies!”
Ugh, Suzanne’s story just tears me up. There was some really interesting discussion on Tom and Lorenzo about whether her backstory is a commentary on interracial adoption. Personally, I don’t think it’s meant to be a condemnation of it, but I think the story certainly points out some of the hazards, such as the effects of Suzanne’s seeming isolation from the black community and how her mom’s determination to ensure that she was not treated differently may have blinded her to Suzanne’s growing psychological problems. For sure though, I think the most evil thing Vee did was her using Suzanne’s desperation for a friend and mother figure to turn her into a thug and a patsy. That was so AWFUL to watch!
I think you’re absolutely right. On all counts.
Except I thought it was a little odd that Suzanne seemed so desperate for a mother figure, as we saw her with her mother at Thanksgiving (and in flashbacks). It seemed like she gets love/support there, though the racial issue does complicate it.
Oh for sure Suzanne’s parents loved and supported her, but as we saw when Suzanne attacked Piper in the flashback, she also has a lot of feelings of anger on account of her mom’s tendency to push her to prove herself, whether Suzanne was ready/capable or not.
True.
I can’t speak to the interracial adoption issue because I’m white and was raised by my bioparents, but as someone on the autism spectrum, Suzanne’s relationship with her mom really rang true to me. A lot of parents of neuroatypical kids tend to try and push them to be “normal” because their kids can succeed, really! And of course it ends up backfiring- either drastically like in Suzanne’s case or more subtly with the child resenting the parent- because the pushy parent isn’t taking into account that there ARE things they child can’t do.
I love Morello’s voice too! Her and Miss Rosa could have started a radio station or something.
The whole time during Black Cindy’s backstory I was really tense because I kept expecting something really bad to happen to her daughter that would be the reason she was in prison. I’m glad it didn’t go that way.
Yes! That was also stressful! I kept saying “Don’t get in the car!” and “Crap, please don’t let that poor child get shot waiting outside the apartment!”
All of those things. I covered my eyes at some point.
Me too! Every flashback scene fills me with anxiety because I’m bracing myself for the awful thing they did that landed them in jail. It reminds me of how I felt watching the opening of every Six Feet Under, waiting for someone to die.
Also maybe I missed it but did we ever get the specific reasons why Cindy and Poussey are in jail?
I don’t know about Poussey, but I think Cindy got caught stealing? You don’t see the arrest or anything, but I jumped to that conclusion.
I wondered if Cindy’s mom turned her in to her work for theft, knowing that her daughter could not or would not be a good guardian, so she did it to ensure she would retain custody.
Supposedly, Poussey is there for some sort of marijuana selling. But we don’t know that for sure – I mean, we were also led to believe that Morello was in for an eBay scam, so make of that what you will.
I have such Conflicting Feelings about Morello, like, she’s one of the characters I most enjoy but also the character that, if it were genderswapped over to a male, would terrify me, and I find that so problematic I’m not sure how to handle it
Oh man, me too. I mean stalking and next-level lying is creepy, period. Red-flag-waving wrong behavior for anyone, male or female. And it’s weird because it’s like. . . compartmentalized from the rest of her personality. She’s not a repeat creeper, like the horoscope lady in the Chicago prison. Nor do the thought patterns that contribute to her creeping seep into other other behaviors or relationships. She’s perfectly lovely and sweet, and I love watching her, but I am confused by the way her character is drawn. Other characters seem more consistent: like, whats wrong in Caputo and Healy’s love lives is what’s wrong in the rest of their lives too.
I thought that was what made it so interesting. She’s not the standard entitled abusive stalker with repeated building red flags – she’s scary because she’s completely disconnected from reality. Everyone thinks she’s so sweet and harmless, and her obviously imaginary fiance is just a prison coping mechanism. And then we find out that there is a very good reason that she is in prison and she is one of the most mentally ill people there.
I mean she’s sweet and friendly and funny and hopefully optimistic and she STALKED A DUDE SHE WENT ON ONE DATE WITH AND TOLD EVERYONE THEY WERE GETTING MARRIED AND SHE TRIED TO BLOW UP HIS GIRLFRIEND’S CAR WITH AN IED AND BROKE INTO THEIR HOUSE SO SHE COULD PRETEND SHE WAS WITH HIM AND LIVING THEIR LIFE
that shit is TERRIFYING
As a character I find her deeply terrifying and creepy and she doesn’t even realize it, which is ten thousand times MORE creepy and worse. And I am legit confused by people who are like “Oh, I just love Morello!” because she is a predator.
It’s deeply troubling to me that Morello isn’t universally terrifying to, uh, everyone? We’re not afraid of a dangerous, violent, delusional person because she’s a woman and women are adorable and not to be taken seriously?
I feel a little sick when I check myself and find that, yep, I find her harmless because she’s small and cute. NOT OKAY NOT OKAY NOT OKAY.
+1 +1 +1 +1
i think in real life i would find morello deeply, deeply terrifying on a really fundamental level because she has NO CONNECTION to reality. i don’t even think of her as a predator exactly, though she is–she just has no connection with reality. there just isn’t anything there. she clearly needs a psych hospital, not a prison. but on tv, i love watching her, and i thought that twist was shocking and surprising and creepy and scary in all the best ways.
I think that Morello is a more subtle comment on the link between mental health and being in the prison system than Suzanne.
She is just as scary as Suzanne’s eye-contact-while-peeing thing.
I think this too. Her delusions, while totally unacceptable in the outside world, are exactly what is allowing her to be a high-functioning inmate. A couple of them have told her that Morello is the only person who is kind and welcoming when they arrive, and nobody notices that she’s maybe the most unstable of them all. And she’s never going to get any treatment, because she doesn’t seem crazy, so when she gets out she’s just going to keep going and probably escalate.
She and Suzanne make me really sad because as long as they’re swimming around in the general population, they’re clearly not going to get any help or counselling. And they both badly need it.
What I’m most confused about is why the prison, knowing why she’s in prison, would be OK with letting her drive around in the non-prison world.
Yes, that. No one’s checking the milage? Or the gas? Or, you know, taking the keys away and making the unstable person come in the hospital while the bank robber has chemo?
Yes! We discussed that briefly in the link roundup the other day, but seriously, of all the prisoners? HER?
I think it’s because she’s been such a model inmate for all the time she’s there. I find it interesting how little the prisoners seem to discuss their criminal histories and backstories, and certainly the staff doesn’t seem acquainted with them at all. I assumed that whoever made the decision to put her in charge of the van didn’t check up or didn’t care.
I thought her flashback was pretty masterfully set up, actually; the set up at the beginning where she was doing some minor-league credit card fraud, and we thought, “Oh, yeah, that seems about right.” But then. Hoo boy.
As much as I hated Soso, I loved her singalong to “Stay”.
That was legitimately awesome but between that and the “Breakfast at Tiffany’s” jam I feel like this show has overestimated the general population’s familiarity with 90s alternapop one-hit wonders juuuuuust a smidge.
(1) ROSA! ROSAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!! She was EVERYTHING and I love her maybe even more than the others for being a True Criminal, no mitigating circumstances, no #Society, just “Yeah, I love the rush and the smell of money”. Also, you’re right girl, sometimes people are JUST RUDE.
(2) Vee’s backstory w RJ makes me cry / vomit she takes literally everything she can away from this chid she was supposed to raise! Poussey calls her a pedophile w/o the sex AND THEN HER FLASHBACK AHHHHH!
(3) Poussey seemed… extremely good at sex for a hs teen? Was I the only 16 yr old struggling to see what the big deal was w “hand stuff” and generally being bored?
(4) I actually enjoyed Piper this season for the most part; her detached “I am a criminal, I deserve to be here” was a nice change from last season. Plus the Larry-Polly stuff seemed equally as cruel as her behavior w/in the context of their relationship. The scene where they ask for her blessing during visitation is maybe my fav sequence of narcissism on tv.
re: #4: Piper was a great character this season. She was much more in control of herself, and while still a little know-it-all-y and all that, but it was more in line with someone who’s been in prison for (how long now? a year?). And her reaction to them asking for her blessing was spot on.
#1: I have just been saying “Always so rude, that one” on repeat for over a week now. I can’t get enough of it. Similarly, I think Black Cindy’s story was along a different line as well. She’s not as much a product of her life – her mom seems wonderful – and she’s really just not a good person. You don’t necessarily feel sympathy for her circumstances, she pretty much deserves to be there, unqualified.
Yeah, I really enjoyed Piper this season! Among my friends and acquaintances who watch the show, I have noticed a tendency for those who are white to fall all over themselves talking about how boring Piper is and why aren’t we more focused on the other characters who are POC because she’s so boring and they’re so interesting, and I suspect that there is some liberal white guilt going on there.
I also find it bizarre when people complain that she is self-involved. Who on this show is not self-involved? Is it really so inappropriate and wrong to be concerned about your own safety and comfort when you’re in prison? I think one of the most interesting themes on the show is that you have to be somewhat selfish to survive in an environment like that.
guy guys GUYS I just found out yesterday Yoga Jones is also the voice of Patty Mayonnaise from Doug. MIND BLOWN.
omg that makes so much sense i hear it now
Pleeeease let Season 3 be all about the Latinas! I loved Flaca and Maritza’s mean girls/Statler & Waldorf-esque quips off to the side this season, but I’m looking forward to them being front and center.
Oh I am so hoping we get their back story in season 3! More of them and less of Daya.
Daya is so boring, and that whole relationship is obviously so effed, but I also feel an incredible amount of sympathy for her. She’s completely immature in every way, especially emotionally, and who wouldn’t be with THAT WOMAN for a mother? God help her.
What makes *less* sense is John’s motives in all this. Can he really not see how childish she is? I don’t feel like I have enough of a handle on his whole deal. Who loses a limb to a hot tub in a high-income country?
Based on Bennet’s behaviour towards the other inmates (i.e. throwing Maritza in SHU) he comes across to me like he’s just as invested in having power over the prisoners as Pornstache and Healey- he’s just less overtly threatening because he doesn’t vocalize it as much.
Yes! That scene where he is freaking out and Pornstache-style sweeping all the inmates’ belongings onto the floor, and Pornstache of all people hauls him away to chill out? Chilling. It’s like: Pornstache has deeply internalized toxic patriarchal masculinity almost to the point of parody; Bennet has not, but when he feels that he has to measure up to alpha male standards and performs them in an uncontrolled way, he’s just as dangerous. Maybe even more so.
Super-late response, but I think Bennett is worse than Pornstache because Bennett thinks he’s a good guy. When he, you know, ALSO raped Daya.
Everything Flaca says makes me want to be best friends with her. I too scorn Bennett’s musical taste and would enjoy being brought gay porn mags in prison.
Can we also talk about the guy who would always visit his lady with their daughter, and he barely said six words and then was all of a sudden talking like crazy to the daughter?
I loved him.
YES! When he found out that she was going to get to stay in NY, I absolutely loved that little mini story. It’s a perfect plotline of show, not tell. We barely get any information on them but it’s still so heart-warming when he opens up the floodgates and starts talking nonstop.
omg, yes, I was almost weeping when he was just cheerfully babbling away to their little girl.
I felt so tense when Caputo told John he could give her the good news that she’d be staying, I was sure it was going to backfire somehow and it would turn out she’d have to go anyway. So glad she didn’t!
Yes! I was FUH-reaking out that the cease to the transfers would backfire. My ovaries did carthweels when the dad was chatting to the baby though. I MEAN. What a charm bag.
I kept waiting for her to ask him why he wasn’t talking and for him to say “The baby keeps me up all night, I’m sorry I’m always so tired when I come here!” I just want a nice ending for those two.
The only thing that could make Larry’s position on the second bubble chart even better is if his bubble was also on fire.
Anybody else convince themselves that Yoga Jones is just old/human Patty Mayonnaise? (Related- how Larry-ish do you think a grown-up Doug would be?)
Gloria is a marvelous kitchen witch who has been given access to a kitchen. She will set. you. on. fire. or use singed dog hair to get you run over.
Do not irritate Gloria.
I mean, really. To paraphrase – Poison? Pfft. Movie witches use poison apples. LET’S DO SOMETHING SO MUCH BETTER/MORE AWFUL.
“Catholic plus” was one of the best lines of the season, as well as “I mostly do that with my face.” Gloria rocketed up to the top of my Faves List!
There are many good points being made, but I have two petty complaints. First, the astrologist-bunkie in Chicago claims to be from Muskegon but points to like, Jackson, or somewhere. Get a map, guys! Second, what’s with the insistence on ba-BUSH-ka? Red is supposed to be Russian. No Russian says it that way.
That aside, I just really, really, really love Poussey. Can she get her own show?
Oh thank god someone else is annoyed by baBUSHka. Also, they keep calling her mamushka IT IS SO WRONG SO VERY WRONG how hard was it to look up “mommy” in the dictionary?
Errors in Russian subject matter in movies drive me legit insane.
Oh my god the terrible Russian drove me crazy 🙁 like healy’s wife was not a native speaker and shit. Piroshki babOOshka is it that hard to find Mamochka NASTROVIYE FOR FUCKS’ SAKE
When Piper was perjurying herself, didn’t it seem like Alex was next door and could hear what she was saying?
Ahhhh this season was SO. GOOD.
1. Even though Vee was HORRIBLE, I thought Lorraine Toussant did an amazing acting job with her. She played manipulative evil so well.
2. I loved the character development this season, extending into the guards and bureaucrats. The nun song on the banjolele was a treat.
3. GOOD GOD I HATE LARRY.
4. GOOD GOD I LOVE POUSSEY/NICHOLS
5. Oh Suzanne 🙁
I'm okay with that. I watched his Behind the Bars interview on Netflix and got the impression that it was more a brilliant casting decision than brilliant acting, but either way, the role is nailed.
Yes! That scene where he is freaking out and Pornstache-style sweeping all the inmates' belongings onto the floor, and Pornstache of all people hauls him away to chill out? Chilling. It's like: Pornstache has deeply internalized toxic patriarchal masculinity almost to the point of parody; Bennet has not, but when he feels that he has to measure up to alpha male standards and performs them in an uncontrolled way, he's just as dangerous. Maybe even more so.
yo
i think in real life i would find morello deeply, deeply terrifying on a really fundamental level because she has NO CONNECTION to reality. i don't even think of her as a predator exactly, though she is–she just has no connection with reality. there just isn't anything there. she clearly needs a psych hospital, not a prison. but on tv, i love watching her, and i thought that twist was shocking and surprising and creepy and scary in all the best ways.
Well I am very late here but did anyone else find the whole Fig-Caputo bj scene super problematic? Like because this woman was terrible we’re supposed to be ok with/cheer on her demeaning sexual exploitation (not necessarily the bj in itself but the reveal that he tricked her into doing it for nothing)? I tried to convince myself there was a reading where it’s a commentary on how even powerful women are reduced to and exploited for their sexuality eventually but I don’t think the show played it that way at all.
It didn’t bug me too much – I think it was because I read the scene as our first clue that Caputo is going to get corrupted by the power just like Fig was. It didn’t feel, to me at least, like we were supposed to be okay with it or even happy that it was happening to her. It served to emphasize how bad things were getting for her.
I think it was supposed to be problematic on purpose, like MaxMarvel says. I felt awful for Fig and thought the writers meant it that way.
What I found really problematic is the idea that a male person can teach female people how their vaginas work … isn’t that the idea we’re trying to get away from? More female voices, less of males speaking for females?
Sophia is not “a male person”. It is emphasized that she knows the subject well precisely *due to her experience as a [post-operation transgender] woman*
Sophia is a woman and she suffers just as much cisgender women do in a patriarchy.
Exploitation aside, it sat poorly with me because Fig is always so clever, calculating, and prides herself on being one step ahead of Caputo. To have her so quickly take the bait without establishing terms first (“So you haven’t brought this up to anyone? And you’ll give me the files right after?”) seemed woefully out of character. They tried to paint a desperation scene of her life falling apart first to set the scene, but it simply didn’t work. Deus Ex Machinope.
I LOVE your charts and graphs and thank you for all the work you put in. Also I’m glad that I just studied these for my GRE un July.
My thougts:
I don’t hate Larry/Polly as much as everyone else does – I think it was kind of inevitable and that they are perfect for each other.
Like Healy and Bad Decisions chart.
My Whoa chart would be different than yours – hitting the head against the dryer would be #1.
I think Bennett is o.k. and comes through as a non-pussy just when you least expect it.
Daya has shifted into a ridiculoue moral stance just because the writers are setting up some further action around Pornstache.
I agree with comments that blowjob sscene was motivated by a midguided combination of demeaning and
mysoginist ideas.