I am ready to talk about Snowpiercer now. (folds hands, waits for you)
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You are probably familiar with my thoughts on Cameron Todd Willingham, the innocent man murdered by the state of Texas in 2004. Well, look here, more evidence that he was sent to his death by a ruthless and evil district attorney and a rich backer.
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AHP has watched Outlander and is into it. And a thousand women whisper awkwardly: “but are they gonna do THAT SCENE? You know what I’m talking about!” (Also, I know like six Famous Internet Feminists who are quietly ride-or-die for Outlander and am interested to see how this all goes!) THAT SCENE never gave me pause, honestly, because I’m pretty “oh, smut, the heart wants what it wants, life is a rich tapestry, nokidsnoanimals” but I get it.
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LUKEWARM GIRL-ON-GIRL ACTION!
“I really want another cat,” the young lover whimpers, her fingers glistening with feral kitty slobber.
The mature lesbian cannot restrain herself. She wraps her sagging arms tight around her young lover and squeals, “We can name him Oreo!”
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who would talk to someone on a plane, come on now (I also don’t believe in reclining unless it is a redeye and I am an Aisle Person, please feel free to share your flying philosophy)
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WOMEN DESTROY SCIENCE FICTION!
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On the experience of watching Howard the Duck for the first time.
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I turned down a perfectly good pitch about Lev Grossman’s The Magicians trilogy because we do not run essays about new books by male authors, but I’m happy to link to them! Also, I really enjoy how Choire writes about books:
Yes, it’s a monarchy. What’s worse than a monarchy? Oh, right, a false monarchy that’s actually ruled by two stupid god-sheep who are just phenomenal assholes.
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How should we judge a trilogy? Let’s say you get three magic questions, which is always the kind of dumb jerk thing that happens in a magical land. How about: Are these people still actually behaving like themselves—or at least like people—throughout? Am I satisfied? And, hmm: Is this world complete?
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Marissa Maciel made Mallory and I cowgirls.
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Tags: feminism, link roundup, the internet
What scene in Outlander? I didn’t read the books.
I am glad you asked!! i want to know as well!
So, I only read the first half so there might be some other THAT SCENE but I think it’s the one where Claire disobeys her highlander buffman and he later beats her with a belt as punishment? And afterwards she’s all, I love you!
Oh, man, scenes like that are REALLY WEIRD.
Seems to me she told him if he ever did it again she’d cut his heart out. And it never did happen again because he (rightly) believed her.
I haven’t read them either but I was so curious I googled and apparently there is a M/M rape.
The thing about these books is, I can’t guess if it’s the scene where the hero spanks the heroine for disobeying him, or the scene where the hero gets his hand nailed to a table and is raped by the bad guy. It’s a smorgasboard!
… :-O
I don’t read these books, but my mother does, and when I found out about the hand-nailing scene I asked her about it. Her response? “That’s the kind of thing they DID back then!” NO. MOM. NO IT WASN’T.
HAH. Hah. Oh….hah. Still laughing…give me a minute…. Haaaaaaaah. OK. I think I’m done now.
Wut. Yeah, I think I’ll give this one a miss.
D:
I couldn’t figure out if it was one of those scenes, or the oral sex one where Jamie is really into how musky she is, or the part near the end where Claire pretends to be Jamie’s rapist to cure him from his depression or whatever.
Man, they are weird books! But I enjoyed the first two for the most part.
I am secretly ride-or-die for Outlander, so… yeah.
Has everyone seen the “Not all men!” letter Carolyn Hax fielded today?
“I also realize that someone who has gone scorched-earth against all men is going to receive your message badly — but I believe delivering it in defense of the entire gender she’s maligning, with care to validate her feelings about her ex-husband, is the only right thing to do.”
Oh, yeah, that’s what we need. Defense of Men.
Yeah, her response was pretty lackluster. It almost felt like she softballed it on purpose, to me.
Clearly she was just asking us all to weigh in on what her answer should have been. (For the record, Carolyn is my fave agony aunt and I think generally gets it pretty darn right.)
My semi-gentle suggestion: sign the friend up for some classes on gender studies and classic feminist theory. She clearly has figured out that the way our society defines and ranks the sexes is unjust, in ways that extend outside of her one relationship, but needs a paradigm to think about it all besides the “all men are terrible oppressors” single note she’s found.
I love the term agony aunt.
I think that answer should have focused more on the pain the friend is coping with. We’ve all got to figure out a way to live in this world without constant rage-strokes, and I think Carolyn’s answer should have been more geared toward supporting the friend than “correcting” her.
Then again, it sounds suspiciously like this might not be a close friend, given that the LW complains mostly about stuff posted on Facebook, so … maybe just remove her from your news feed if it bugs you so much?
Yeah, my first gut reaction was “omg lol get over yourself dude” but the woman is clearly dealing with a lot of grief and anger which is the real issue here, not any perceived misandry. I agree that he should probably be more concerned about her emotional well-being than offended.
There are clearly two problems: the emotional agony and the lesser problem, comments that are annoying to someone. I think Carolyn saw the first one, but the question was addressed at the second and she answered it as such.
But there may well be things going on besides displaced anger, too. That first time you see, really see systematic injustice all around you… that can bring up a lot of strong emotions. I think discounting this possibility is really where both LW and CH fell short.
There will always be tools of the oppressors who step up to defend them. Carolyn is such a tool.
I’m sure divorced lady has her Reasons.
I loved the episode and am now diving back into the books – I only made it about half way through Drums of Autumn back in high school but man. Jamie is dreamy. So, so dreamy. (Great casting there)
I’ve been listening to the audiobooks – Davina Porter reads them, and she is just about flawless. I found Drums of Autumn a bit hard to get through, but things picked up in the next book (The Fiery Cross).
How many hours are the audiobooks? I was joking to a friend last night that they’d take six months to listen to
I calculated it because I am seriously thinking of going back and listening to the whole series (I read them originally in print but got the audio for the most recent instalment). I generally listen at a rate of 40 hours/month (thanks Audible stats!) and at that rate it would take me just over 9 months to listen to the full series. It’s a commitment, but I love having them read to me, and the narrator is great with all the voices and accents.
The Fiery Cross is 55 hours. Drums of Autumn is only (only!) 44 hrs 54 minutes.
TAKE THAT BACK! How dare you. How DARE you?
“Davina Porter … is just about flawless.”
Davina Porter is UTTERLY flawless.
(The last book, Written in My Own Heart’s Blood, was 45 delicious, amazing hours and I wanted more.)
Sorry! Davina Porter is more perfect a narrator than anyone could reasonably hope for. “Just about flawless” is my nit-picky judgment based on the fact that her American accent (mainly Brianna, based on where I am in the series) is not quite perfect.
Would you settle for, Davina Porter is the best narrator in the world?
Well, but: Simon Vance. With whom I am in audio love.
Okay, I cut slack for Brianna because she was raised by English folk. But I will concede your point, as long as we agree that listening to the Outlander series is worth every hour it takes and is far superior to reading them, because when Porter puts emotion into Jamie’s voice our hearts fill with yearning and joy?
YES. I’ve spent upwards of probably 300 hours now listening to Davina Porter’s lovely voice.
(Also, Katherine Kellgren and Kate Mulgrew are terrific narrators, too.)
I got to interview Katy Kellgren on my blog in June & she was super nice and friendly and funny. I adore her narrations – just listened yesterday to a new-to-me author (Nancy Springer) because her YA title was ready by Kellgren.
I’ve never heard a Mulgrew narration – will have to check her out! I’ve been known to talk a LOT about audiobooks, so run away now, but before you do, here are some other favorites:
Xe Sands, Ralph Cosham, Rebecca Lowman, Roslyn Landor, Kate Reading, Simon Prebble, Patrick Lawlor, Melanie Ewbank, Cassandra Campbell.
Kellgren is amazing – she narrates the Bloody Jack series, which requires her to do so many different accents and voices. Kate Mulgrew hasn’t narrated a ton, but she did N0S4A2 and was incredible, so creepy and chilling in just the right ways.
Can you link to your blog again? The link you posted brings me back to The Toast, and I’d LOVE to read your interview!
Well THAT’S not clever of me! http://dakimel.blogspot.com/2014/06/summer-shorts…
Did you hear that LA Meyer just died? Kellgren posted it on FB, she opened the manuscript for the last Jacky Faber book and a couple of hours later got the call that he’d died. https://www.facebook.com/katykellgren https://www.facebook.com/pages/LA-Meyer/128462140…
I’m still sad, 2 days later. I love that series.
Oh no! I hadn’t heard. I was counting on a Jacky Faber book per year, which seems to be the pace he was pumping them out at.
Kellgren is fantastic throughout, but my favorite Kellgren narration moment is in Mississippi Jack, when she’s singing/yelling in Mike Fink’s exaggerated drawl.
Will Patton (aka the dad with the kid he doesn’t know in Armeggedon/Denzel’s assistant coach in Remember the Titans) is also an amazing audiobook narrator. I only just realized that he was that dude in the movies.
Kinda feel like the validity of the advice hinges on the actual connection between the divorce and this behavior. Carolyn might have challenged her more on that. And if that connection does exist, like, give the girl a few months to vent.
I am secretly ride-or-die for Outlander, so… yeah.
Has everyone seen the "Not all men!" letter Carolyn Hax fielded today?
Here is what I learned about Snowpiercer during yesterday’s Snowpiercer SDCC thread-jack:
1. Tilda Swinton’s character was originally male; she was displeased with the very few women characters and she and the director decided that her character would be female and that was that.
2. Tilda Swinton’s teeth and nose were her idea.
3. Tilda Swinton is fantastic (I did not learn this yesterday, but it was reinforced.)
I know I am supposed to have a lot of Important Thoughts about Snowpiercer and I may one day, but all I can really think about right now is A. TILDA SWINTON!!!! B. TILDA SWINTON’S AWESOMELY WEIRD TEETH and C. Is that Jamie Bell’s real accent? Why doesn’t he get to use it more, it’s darling.
June Thomas on Slate was so offended by that character, because she thought it was a slam against working-class Northern English women, of which she is one. I love June so much, but also thought that character was great.
Um. It’s a slam against Margaret Thatcher. The accent, WHICH WAS ALSO TILDA’S IDEA, was chosen specifically with that reference in mind.
Yes, sorry about that, Morgan!! (Not really, as everyone seemed to be having a marvelous time). You know who really impressed me in that movie (#3 on your list being a given)? ALLISON PILL. How terrifying was she? I thought that point in the film really cemented its “not to be taken literally, folks!” tone in a wonderful way.
YES. That was the exact moment where it clicked in that ohhhhhh this is a fairy tale/fable/Story-type-story rather than something even remotely realistic. She was BALLER.
Oooh I love her! Glad she’s doing something else besides The Newsroom which I hate hate hate.
The way her one eye was twitching during the song!!!
Between Snowpiercer and Only Lovers Left Alive, Tilda has claimed a very special place in my heart this year!
Don’t forget her cameo in Grand Budapest Hotel (or, you know, do, if that’s not your thing). But another costuming triumph for sure.
My Tilda Swinton thoughts:
1. Whyyyy did they kill off the incredibly compelling antagonist halfway through and replace her with a personality-less drone?
2. Reviewers keep saying her character was meant to be Margaret Thatcher, I think just because she was a mean British lady? Thatcher = there is no society, Swinton = society is very important, stay in your place to help society.
3. Pretty sure her hair and teeth were meant to look like Ayn Rand. Compare:
SEEMS LEGIT
The costume designer says that Ayn Rand wasn’t necessarily the goal but she totally gets why people see it and she’s good with that.
::whispers:: I hated Snowpiercer.
I could just not suspend disbelief, at all. And the end! Was that supposed to be a happy ending? I was just very confused. And that line! Basically this was a morality tale about why we need birth control?
Though, I admit parts of the train were pretty awesome and I love the idea of class warfare. It was definitely an interesting movie, I just did not enjoy it. I wanted those two hours of my life back at the end.
I want to watch it just to see the train. I’ve read spoilers like whoa and the plot and gore don’t interest me but the train does.
My main criticism of the move was Needs Moar Train.
trains trains trains i do love ’em
The production design is more of a star than any of the actors. It’s magnificent. Literally magnificent.
It is AMAZING. If it doesn’t win every award out there, I will eat my hat.
With this and the above points about hair and teeth, maybe it’s trying to make an acceptable media substitutes for Objectivists? Slowly wean them off the Atlas Shrugged films onto something with empathies?
I don’t think that was supposed to be a happy ending at all. I mean, it was two parts “hey, we’ve been lying to you all along, things can still live out here” and one part “y’all are going to starve or be eaten by a polar bear, good luck!”
I mean, I guess they could survive by salvaging what’s left of the train, working together, and getting off whatever mountain range they’re on but lololol good luck.
I know! But the movie seemed to want us to think it was like “oh yay a polar bear!” But those kids have literally never stepped on earth before, so how would they know how to do anything? It’s like Hatchet, if he was just dumb and sat there and died. Oh, and the Earth is entirely frozen.
Yeah, I definitely saw things more like “you are all going to die anyway.”
I saw an interview with Bong Joon-Ho where he was he said it was meant to be hopeful and he didn’t consider the implications of it being a polar bear until someone pointed out that it could eat them.
That’s kind of adorable.
The ending definitely threw me. I was completely onboard until I realized that they were actually going to go through with blowing the whole thing up. I guess on one hand, the system was corrupt and beyond fixing. I don’t think even Chris Evans’ Beard could have turned it all around and made a society worth a damn with so little to work with. But on the other, it felt to me like a definite death sentence for everyone involved, and I guess a piece of me wanted to see humanity redeemed and saved at the end. I’m still chewing on that one, and I saw the movie WEEKS ago. But those South Korean directors always do that to me!
Saaaame here, although I guess I can accept that nothing could’ve saved what remained of humanity and that we should all just offer ourselves to our Polar Bear overlords instead.
Also… And I know we shouldn’t REALLY be talking about realism here… But of all the things to survive, a polar bear is one of the least likely. It’s literally the top of the food chain in its environment, and if everything below it is completely decimated, then how on earth would it survive? A plant or something would’ve made more sense.
I thought that was part of the “hopefulness” of the ending – like there is a sufficient ecosystem to support an apex predator.
Yeah, I think you’re right. And it was a genuinely beautiful image. Just, polar bears. Always showing up where they shouldn’t be since 2004.
You and citizenchristy are way more on top of your zoology games than I am! I couldn’t get past “polar bears will eat people, you all are fucked.”
Question that occured to me: polar bear on a mountain, far away from any water??
OR ARE THEY.
WHAT WATER
(Also am I the only one who thought “maybe the wind is blowing the snow off the plane rather than it MELTING, hmmm?”)
(That said, I loved this movie a lot.)
I apparently have this weird notion that polar bears have to live near some water, but I don’t know if that is actually true and I’ll be damned if I start a wiki-hole to find out.
Initial google searches aren’t terrible conclusive re: living near water, but apparently they don’t need to actually DRINK the stuff:
Not only is fat easier for the bears to digest, but it also contains more calories, which makes for more efficient eating. In addition, the process of digesting protein requires water from the body, whereas the digestion of fat actually releases water. This allows the metabolism of the bears to function without the need to drink water, which they do not do.
They don’t have to be super close to water, since they have huge ranges, but they’re pretty reliant on marine mammals as food so I don’t know why they’d go up a mountain. They don’t seem well suited for forest/mountain living.
YES THANK YOU WHY HAS NO-ONE ELSE BROUGHT THIS UP.
I THOUGHT OF THAT TOO, and it was one of the reasons why when Namgoong was explaining his plan I was in full Charlton Heston at the end of Planet of the Apes mode. “YOU BLEW IT UP!!!! YOU MANIACS!!!!!!” But it turns out he was right.
To be fair to him, we never do find out what it was he saw out the window in the farming car. Maybe it was an animal or something.
Yeah, derailing it in the middle of a mountain range, with no skills, no tools, nothing? They’re not going to last long.
I watched it when it was very late and I was pretty drunk (thanks cinema + drafthouse!) (it was the second half of a double feature for me, after Guardians of the Galaxy) and I think the film works better when I think of it as a weird dream that I had.
I had a lot of people tell me it was OMG the best thing since Jesus came back as sliced bread, so I was not overwhelmed with its awesomeness I think due to high expectations. I was not underwhelmed exactly? I was just kind of whelmed, I suppose. And I also had issues suspending disbelief, until I decided to treat it like a surrealist fever dream movie of strange vignettes that were interconnected by Chris Evan’s gritty grimace and ideas about class warfare.
I think this was the problem for me too, and also I’ve probably seen too many Korean horror movies so the twists were kind of expected.
I really feel like the overall message of this movie is that extinction is preferable to inequality. Which I don’t think I’m on board with.
I don’t think it was supposed to be a happy ending. The whole thing was so fucking bleak.
I’m so torn on how I feel about the movie. .I can’t really recommend the movie to people because it was so difficult to watch, but I do think it was pretty good. I was literally shaking when the credits rolled, because I was just expecting a weird action movie starring Chris Evan’s beard. SO UPSETTING.
I did enjoy watching Chris Evans punch people, though. Up until the axes started appearing, I was so happy. I would watch him do hand to hand combat for hours, and I’m not usually very violent. The camera angle is very important though.
What were we talking about, again?
Me too, I really hated it.
I had the same problem with suspending disbelief, even though all signs kept pointing to “don’t take this too seriously”, I just kept asking glaring questions in my mind that destroyed the premise of the movie, repeatedly. I’m willing to at least consider it’s some personal failing of mine that I couldn’t get past that like, if it’s a perpetual motion machine why can’t you use the unlimited energy to WARM UP THE EARTH, or at least things other than that one train? How could that route they flashed for a few seconds really take one year? What is the fucking deal with that story? Maybe it would work better for me as a graphic novel.
I loved Tilda’s character but mostly because I got the joke.
I really wanted to enjoy it but it ultimately fell apart for me. I hung in decently while I watched it but felt crazy whiplash after. Even as an allegory.
The tone rocked back and forth and sped around curves from slapstick to horror so much, and that made me feel frustrated too. It couldn’t decide if it wanted to be unsettling or funny, and to me, the tone never gelled into a solid whole thing. They didn’t give us enough time with the sad parts or they broke them up too much with the funny things.
How is killing people through manufactured cullings more sensical than evolving a scarcity culture where you either perform tubal ligation on a strict number of kids we can have this year basis, or you create a culture where the elderly die when new kids are born? Those are dystopic options still, but make far more sense. And people don’t revolt when it feels “fair-ish” so then you don’t risk losing your whole train if the people have it together more than you think.
Why in 17 years have so many people been born that they needed to have multiple cullings? If the air is so cold, why not manufacture “accidents” that freeze the right number? How come all the people clubbing have big fur coats inside the warm train? Wouldn’t the coats look ratty by now? Are there mink cars? How can you keep cows alive in a narrow train? Did they travel through 40 meadow compartments?
Why wouldn’t you just become a socialist society where everyone gets enough and works in rotation? Why would a man brilliant enough to make a train like this, not have spare parts or birth control? Why wouldn’t he create a big underground bunker next to a steel mine and use geothermal heat?
Why wouldn’t they wait to take timmy out until they hit a flat plain? If I saw a kid suffering, but know that if I wait say 50 minutes, he has a 90% better chance of surviving a subsequent crash, I’d wait.
Lastly, what’s the point? I don’t see the ending as hopeful. I don’t know that it makes much sense unless you conjure up an alternative and the fuck it all we’re all dead now, it doesn’t do it for me. Watching that level of nihilism isn’t it like, “well we used to eat cockroaches, but we were alive then….”
What did the cockroaches eat? How were there enough of them to feed all the tail sectioners? Maybe it makes no sense to talk about conservation of energy when you live on a perpetual motion machine (am I wrong assuming it was supposed to be that), but the bugs also gotta eat?
Would the poor people in the back, living how they were living, really turn up their noses at eating bugs?
If you had this awesome engine, would you not use it for literally anything other than running a pointless train to which you’ll be confined forever? What happens when the track needs repairs?
You said it better than I did, but I was also very confused throughout by the weird changes in tone. I just couldn’t hold it all together in my mind.
Who catches the cockroaches? Aside from that there wouldn’t be much for them at the back of the train, so you’d expect that they’d have to live at the front of the train to scavenge… because the cockroach bars in a gelly form aren’t really going to crumble and make crumbs, how do you catch that many cockroaches, or are they being kept in cages? Wouldn’t a vegetarian alternative make a lot more sense? Blocks of algae are the first thing I come up with…
Also the part where they spill all the EGGS?! If you only get one egg a year and you are a sadistic bastard, why the fuck would you use them as a distraction when you create the massacre? What a waste of eggs. Colored construction paper would be as much of a novelty back there. How can you only possibly eat eggs once a year, wouldn’t the chicken lay regularly? Are they storing eggs for 52 weeks?
Totally, totally agreed. I’d’ve had a much easier time taking it as a fable if the tone didn’t wheel around so wildly, and I’m pretty sure that trying to read it any other way makes it much worse rather than better. And there are so many things that are needlessly complicated or not even remotely addressed (where are the cows? No birth control? How do people living in drawers have the muscle tone to kick other peoples’ butts? etc ) that I just couldn’t suspend disbelief.
I was bothered by the entire concept of people in drawers, just because it was so unbelievable that they would even be able to function. Were they locked in there all of the time? If yes, wouldn’t they all be insane? Wouldn’t their limbs atrophy? Why keep prisoners at all? Why not just kill them and not waste the space? I guess if they are all supposed to have useful skills it would make more sense, but in that case you would maybe not want to drive them insane.
I love you guys. I was so mad at this movie and had such a long list of inconsistencies and WTFs, but you have added EVEN MORE. But, you know, where do the rich people sleep? You can’t sauna all day. The train was SO long in the shooting between carriages scenes but they only went through 17 carriages i think? Why was it such a surprise that Gilliam and Ed Harris knew each other when Gilliam was talking openly about it at the start of the movie and asking Tilda if she could pass on a message for him like it was nbd? Why did Chris Evans’ sidekick look about 30 if he was the baby whose mother CE killed at the start of the train ride? Who thinks to pack goddamn night vision goggles when provisioning your train-ark? Why why why
There were aspects I really liked about it, but the gaping inconsistencies and plot holes and things that just didn’t make any sense did it in for me. Even fables need to have internal consistency!
(And this is setting aside the whopping nonsense that is a train that runs perpetually with no apparent fuel source, which, ugh, no, stop it. /physicist)
I agree on internal consistency. But also if you are going to wildly abandon it, then at least you need a point. I’m not sure I even felt that strongly that there was a point. Ed Harris doesn’t even have a point. Why is he all alone? Why is that necessary? Why bring everyone with him on the train to keep in alternating luxury and misery if he’s just going to hang out by himself with his girlfriend and his kid-gears?
Why is the class system necessarily so blatant? The trick of capitalism is that it’s NOT fatalistic and rigid. There’s just enough movement to make it seem like everyone has a chance to move up in the train when it’s really rigged. To have it be like, “you are shoe, we are head…” that’s just dictatorship, so then it’s not a fable of our time. If it’s about environmentalism, then the fact that the train ecology breaks down completely if you think about it for a second… If it’s about pathos and self sacrifice…well it doesn’t work because at the end are all the sacrifices the movements of puppets?
Here’s what I liked best. The times where there was shared a train culture- like everyone celebrating bridge day. The kids in school singing the songs (Although the back passengers should know the songs too, that would be better) that Tilda also knows. More of that, more subtle ways of controlling people, that would be better.
I know I am supposed to have a lot of Important Thoughts about Snowpiercer and I may one day, but all I can really think about right now is A. TILDA SWINTON!!!! B. TILDA SWINTON'S AWESOMELY WEIRD TEETH and C. Is that Jamie Bell's real accent? Why doesn't he get to use it more, it's darling.
Huh. Choire is making me was to read the second book in the Magicians instead of quietly placing the third book on the floor and walking away. Interesting.
I enjoyed Snowpiercer, despite being deeply puzzled by what I thought were some plot gaps. What was the fish doing in the axe fight? Why is Mason seemingly important, then never mentioned again? Why did that one goon conveniently come back to life in the steam room?
Anyhow, it was all entirely worth it to see Tilda Swinton tear up the screen.
I want–nay, NEED–to see some Swinton cosplay.
I saw Snowpiercer at a Lady Geeks meetup in Denver and one of the things we discussed after the film was the need for SwintonCon, or at the very least, some Tilda cosplay meetups. It would be incredible.
I didn’t get the fish/axe fight thing either until my coworker explained it. He said it’s a foreshadowing that the entire journey through the train is a systematic culling of the back-of-the-train folks. Think of the scene at the sushi bar, how Tilda Swinton’s character explains that they only have sushi once or twice a year because they have to control the population.
ohhhhhhhhh! Now that makes sense! I wish they had perhaps made it a little more explicit, but yes, that makes a lot of sense.
The sushi bar thing felt crazy obvious to me. Did it feel crazy obvious to everyone else?
little bit, yeah. some stuff felt very obvious and some stuff needed more explanation.
Yeah, and that’s part of why I didn’t like the movie — it was either very obvious or totally unexplained, and not much middle ground.
I’m going to see this directly, _purely_ for Swinton.
She is GLORIOUS
Yeah, she’s *fantastic* in this. (And pretty much everything else.)
Okay, now, I haven’t seen Snowpiercer yet, but I feel fairly confident in saying that, as a general rule, you don’t bring a fish to an axe fight.
Okay, I take it back about there being no romantic couples in the movie; I’d forgotten that Assassin McShootersons and Beardy Goon up there are shown as an established pair at several points. Their relationship is not a central love story by any means, but it’s a nice touch that they’ve clearly got backstory that doesn’t need to be explored or explained.
wait, are they? I thought of them as father and son for some reason?
I don’t have insider knowledge nor do I want to deny anyone else’s reading, but the way they were snuggling during the seven-minute arm-ectomy looked pretty long-term coupley to me.
ah, I gotcha. I’m going to have to watch it again, I missed that somehow. (Though I did have my hands over my face for a good part of that scene.)
I have Thoughts about Travel Etiquette that exceed the ever so genteel advice offered by Uncommon Courtesy, including:
Parents of Children Over 8, ( Younger children have never done this) Please restrain your progeny from kicking my seat back for 8 thousand miles from Singapore to Chicago, Or I Will Kill Your Child AND YOU
Playing with the tray is included in the seat back ban.
(Please note that My Children have never done such a thing because I am a Dictator Mother and I Did Not Allow It. I even have a tee shirt that says Dictator Mother, given to me by my children. They are well mannered travelers now, and have been know to complain about Other People’s children. My work here is done.)
I applaud you and all other Dictator Mothers. I’m sure you would never let your children do this but an equally repulsive thing mid-sized children do is launching themselves backwards into their seat with enough force to jam it into my knees, and spill my drink. I know being on a plane can be the pits, but do children have to flop around everywhere?!
And I love children. I will interact with nice kids on planes, and I’ve even been known to share my plane candy. I used to be a nanny who was required (best requirement ever) to go on two Disney vacations per year. You can’t always control what kids do, but gently reprimanding them out loud for bad behavior instead of ignoring it will win you a lot of goodwill from other passengers.
Ugh people with children! If you know you’re gonna be in a confined space for a long time, how about you bring something with you that will entertain your child in said confined space so they don’t need to run up and down the aisle/kick everyone? Like, a coloring book or a toy or something? I see so many parents trying to control kids on trains/planes and they’re just asking them to sit still and not offering any distraction. COMMON SENSE.
Forget the kids! It’s always the goddamn old men in the seat behind me, who think the only way to get the in-seat entertainment to play their movies is to JAB. THE. SCREEN. OVER. AND. OVER. Because I need to spend the next 8 hours with your randomly poking the back of my head, thanks.
OLDER MEN ARE THE WORST TRAVELERS! Why? Because they are essentially still children
So the other night, I was on the subway coming home from a long, tiring day at a beach and a baseball game, and these two parents had this WAILING toddler. And they were doing that discipline technique where they let him cry it out, and ignored him, because it was sorta clear he was doing it for attention and not any pressing reason. But for the love of god this is not your house, if they do that in a public area you coddle the shit out of them until they shut up! Especially if it’s for 45 minutes straight and you’re stuck in a metal tube underground.
You should be able to do a citizen’s arrest for this
There was a lot of glaring and loud sighing. And then my husband started clapping when they got off the train and every single other person joined in.
I have a travel etiquette question! What should you do when flying alone in the window seat, and both adjacent people are sleeping, and you REALLY have to pee? Wake them up, or just climb past them while they are sleeping? I’ve tried both, and neither one seems great.
It might depend how climb-past-able they are? I mean, if they have slumped down so that their knees are touching the seat backs in front of them, and also the people in front of them have reclined, then it would probably be impossible to not wake them up, so I feel like it’d be politer to just wake them first. But otherwise it might go either way.
Mostly I just avoid liquids before flights, but I only really get away with that because most of the flights I take are fairly short.
As a confirmed window seat person, I try to wait until they wake up or get up themselves. But I think that getting woken up so others can get out is part of the deal of taking an aisle seat.
I am the daughter of a Dictator Mother, and I turned out SO GREAT and everyone else turned out terrible, terrible.
I had a dictator mother! When we were small she was always very loving but she took no shit from us ever. As a result we were well behaved kids and she’s one of my best friends now. She still takes no shit from kids, whether they’re our cousins or a friend’s children. You know what? Kids LOVE her.
I had never heard of Outlanders, so now I am intrigued. I’m glad there’s a way to watch the first episode for free, and I really hope it’s good! I’d love to see a badass lady bang her way through the Scottish highlands!
The choicest of quotes in that AHP piece: “Having now watched the first six episodes of Outlander, I feel like my genitals are, indeed, being catered to.”
Minor demerits for dismissing Spartacus off-hand, which was a surprisingly high-quality show which catered to ALL genitals!
Choire cracks me up, and he’s a good person. He checked on Mr. 11k words to make sure he was ok after the internet exploded in that guy’s face – that was so very weird. Also, I asked Choire to please follow me on twitter (I’m @standardtuber, yo Toasties!) for a certain residency (lol, the finalists all had upwards of 10k followers… And I don’t), and he did.
jesus christ HE STILL WON’T FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER WHAT ARE YOU DOING RIGHT THAT I AM NOT
*falls to the floor sobbing, gestures grandly at the Toast* this was all for his approval
“Choire was the audience before which the blustering drama of Mallory Ortberg had been played. Now the curtain had been rung down forever, the footlights dimmed and the audience suddenly vanished, while the stunned young misandrist remained on her empty stage, waiting for her cues.”
*Smiths ‘Please, please, please, let me get what i want’ plays softly in background*
If you follow me, I’ll put in a good word for you with him 😉
Twitter is the New Currency in the year 2014, tell your grandkids about it some day folks.
ETA I don’t expect a follow, Mallory. But maybe a LinkedIn connection?
There was a nascent disability studies reading of Snowpiercer in the derail yesterday that I’d be interested in hearing more about. I’m particularly curious since the film is so anarchist, rather than socialist, in its leaning/claims, and so many (m)anarchist communities have such libertarian-ish leanings when it comes to things like “gender” and “ability,” that I’d love to think more about how they’re compatible in this case.
I made a commitment to only read books by women of color for the next year. Now I’ve found out about Outlander (how had I not heard of this before??). Whaaat to do?
Read it alongside a book by a woman of color? Like, you read the Chosen Book for a certain period of time, and then you read Outlander for the same amount of time or less? Just spitballin’ here!
Read NK Jemisin and Octavia Butler instead! Outlander will still be there. Also I’m not sure how she identifies, but Diana Gabaldon’s father is Chicano, so make use of that information as you will.
Starting Kindred for the first time tonight, whoohoo! (Have never read Octavia Butler for some reason, which is a travesty, and excited to finally fix that!)
She is so, so great. I’m excited for you and a little envious! Kindred is a really amazing book, but in some ways, it’s also a rather atypical Octavia Butler novel. Definitely do read it, but even if you don’t love it, give the Parable series or the Patternist series a shot!
Yeah, I was kinda unclear on where to start with her, looking at Amazon/Goodreads, and it seems I picked the least “genre-novel” type book. I’ve been reading nothing but medieval fantasy and space ships for a few months, though, so it might actually be a good palate cleanser. (Er, given the subject matter, “palate cleanser” might be the wrong word to use there.) Which book do you recommend reading next for the more typical Octavia Butler experience?
Parable of the Sower was my introduction to Butler and I love it so much.
That was going to be my answer as well. Actually, the VERY first thing I read of hers was the short story collection “Bloochild,” which I would recommend highly to anyone. It definitely gives a sense of her voice and major themes. As novels go, though, I’d start with the Parable series probably (disclaimer: it’s also the one I know best; I haven’t read all of her books because, well, she’s not alive and writing anymore, and I’m rationing what’s left.)
I’m really liking her Patternist stuff so far. Amazed it took me this long to start it.
With the upcoming referendum on Scottish independence, you’d be a bad Citizen of the World (c) if you didn’t brush up on 18th century Scottish politics*.
*Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It’s what separates us from the animals.
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds. (Basically, I resort to Emerson only when I want to get out of something.)
Dr. Gabaldon is actually, part Hispanic.
I was at the sneak peek of the Outlander premiere at Comic-Con. I haven’t read the book(s), so I’m not sure I know which scene you mean, but if it’s the one where somebody “forgets” a piece of clothing…yes, they did THAT SCENE. Anyone else who wants spoilers, just ask me.
I haven’t read them, either, and I really really want to know what “THAT SCENE” is, so I’m going to hang out here in the spoiler thread in hopes that someone will enlighten me.
Ha! It’s an interesting thing to offer up spoilers for a show in which I’m not invested and pretty much saw on accident (my travel companion is a huge fan, so I stood in line for three hours with her because she’s just that awesome). I feel a bit of a poseur.
I’m guessing the scene referred to here is the one where the male lead spanks the female lead with a belt. And not in a sexy way. In a “you did something wrong and I’m going to punish you as I grew up being punished” way. It won’t come until later in the series. I’m sure it will spark a lot of discussion, as the scene in the book has among book readers.
Ah! Well if that’s the scene in question, it was not in the premiere! The premiere covered the beginning of the (first) book to to the point where they get to Castle Leoch. So, not a lot of plot. I mean, it’s only an hour-long TV show pilot.
You can watch the whole premiere for free on Starz’s website right now! I don’t think that’s the scene in question but I’m at the beginning of my reread.
Tell me, tell me! If there’s something potentially Questionable, I want to know beforehand if it’s something I’m willing to feel conflicted about watching.
I’m not sure what you mean. I can’t tell you if you don’t tell me what you want to know! Like I said, I didn’t read the books and I’m not in the fandom, so I don’t know for sure what scene they’re talking about when they say THAT SCENE.
I can tell you, though, that I didn’t see anything particularly offensive in the premiere episode.
I think Nicole is talking about the spanking/wife beating.
For really steamy lesbian action, they would have to foster an entire litter of kittens and name them after butch folk artists. Possibly with a moral quandary over their own vegetarianism and the cats’ biological needs.
I am deathly allergic to cats, but now I know that if I wasn’t, I would absolutely adopt one and name her Melissa Ferrick.
“This is Janis Ian. Unfortunately, she’s an obligate carnivore.”
I know it’s ultimately a pretty small amount of money, but that Waldman was able to whine her way into a refund from Apple when her children, clearly on purpose, spent money on an app, irks me.
In other advice column news, Dear Prudence is at it again:
“Let me begin with an aside. As a general rule, if you find you’re really attracted to and interested in someone, sleeping with him on the first date (and this wasn’t even a first date) is not necessarily the best way to start what you hope might be a promising relationship. Good that Mr. Chips wants to see you again, but be prepared that Mr. Chips expects to end the evening in bed.”
She then spends all of a sentence answering the actual question.
“Wooooow” to so much of that Dear Prudence.
(I will say I agree with her on the outdoor cat stance.)
GHOST MARRIAGE. GHOST MARRIAGE.
!!! THE SPIRIT WEDDING HAHAHA
Did you see the top comment:
“Where would they even register — Bed, Bath, and Beyond.”
Christ, she even doubles down when called out about it later. What a particularly infuriating Prudie.
BUT BUT BUT SHE WOULD SAY THE SAME THING TO A MAAAAAN!!!
this made me chuckle:
“Although I am Jewish, and petite, let me make a general announcement that Jews come in all sizes. ”
whatwhatwhat? next you’ll be saying that white people can have rhythm, and that black people sometimes have blond hair!
My aunts are both really tall, and I take after that side of the family, so I’m pretty disappointed in how not-tall I am.
You just need to hang out with shorter people more often. Visit with my family.
All of my life my family told me I was tall. Of course I believed it. My sister and I attained our full height before the other girls in school, always the tallest until high school. We were the first women in the family ever to become taller than 5′ 2″. Some of the men did not achieve that mark. We are both at or near 5′ 6″. We have always looked at the tops of the heads of most of our relatives. Only our male cousins require us to lift our gazes to see their eyes.
Then I met my husband. He called me “short”. I was astonished anyone would think that of me. Not offended, just amazed. OK, he is 6′ 3″ so I am, relatively, “short” to him. But then I met his family. His mother is 5′ 10″. The men are all his height. There are no step ladders in their homes. Even his sister-in-law is 6 feet tall, and she married into this clan. There must be a height requirement!
They did allowed me to be married to my giant. And I have taught my in-laws the wisdom of step ladders.
Ha, I had a very similar situation. Always the tallest in my class in school, taller than my older sister, mom, and finally my dad by the time I was thirteen…and then I just stopped. At a little over 5’6. It took me a while to wrap my head around the fact that I wasn’t actually tall anymore, I was just…average. So now I just stomp around in super high-heeled boots all the time. They’re like stepladders that follow me around!
I like your attitude: stepladder footwear.
Tall Jewish lady checking in. I didn’t even know this was a stereotype; my mother is the shortest in her (Jewish) family at 5’9, and my father is the tallest in his (goyishe) family at the same height.
I have a 20+ hour long flight to Australia later this month and I forget where I picked my seat to be. This is going to be a nightmare. 🙁
It is not going to be too much of a nightmare, because when your flight ends you will be in AUSTRALIA!!!!! Which is an extremely lovely place.
I have survived a 14 hour flight to Argentina before while horrifically sunburnt I CAN DO THIS THE END REWARD IS WORTH IT
you can call and change your seat,if a better one is available
You can also do it online, for most airlines, then you can look at the seatmap for your flight/plane, and it will tell you if there are any paid upgrades available.
Hmm…I booked it through Kayak (which is the LEAST intuitive website ever for travel booking 0/10 would not recommend) – if I called the airline directly, would they be able to switch my seat if need be?
Regardless of where you booked it, your ticket is still ultimately with one airline, and you should be able to view your reservation via that airline’s website. Kayak was just acting as a travel agent, in this case. I use a third-party travel service at work to book flights etc. for my boss – the agency does the leg work for me, but the actual ticket is still issued by United or whomever. You should have a reservation or confirmation number, that – with your name – will be enough to let you view your res. on most airline’s websites. (You can, of course, call customer service, but I’d give the website a shot first as it will be significantly faster/less hassle than trying to get a helpful human on the phone, plus some airlines charge for phone assistance now.)
This is fantastic news. Thank you!! I am kind of a huge noob when it comes to travel anything – I usually just book a ticket and then forget about it until the time comes that I actually need to go anywhere.
I’m happy to help! I book a lot of travel for myself and coworkers, so I’m pretty familiar with all the weird things that can crop up. Oh, and if I may give one more bit of unsolicited advice, if you book a ticket via Kayak, Orbitz, etc. do check your reservation directly with the airline once you get your confirmation, even if you’re totally cool with getting a seat anywhere. You want to make sure everything actually went through ok, and if there are problems better to find out early then when you’re at the airport! I learned this the hard way, once, and the only reason I wasn’t totally boned was because my dad worked for the airline I was supposed to be flying and checked out the passenger list for the flight I’d booked and saw I wasn’t on it. Whoops! Got it straightened out, but it was a pain in the nards.
That is excellent advice as well because I know the first time I attempted to make this booking, it cancelled on me (debit card would not allow me to make a purchase that high online) – so I will definitely be giving Virgin Australia a call later this afternoon. Because if they don’t have it, I’m out nearly $2k and will have to yell.
If you can change it, refer to seat guru for a break down of the best seats on any model of plane (and it can tell what model it is just by your flight number).
PS go to 7 Apples in St Kilda and eat all the gelato for me if you’re in Melbourne.
I am going to be on the complete opposite half of the country (Brisbane!) but I will make a point to look for some dang good gelato while I am there.
That is great information though, thank you!!
edit: well, half if you fold it in half top-wise, I guess.
I’ve only (“only”) been to Melbourne, Cairs and Sydney. And out the Great Ocean Road, but I basically still count that as Melbourne. But have an awesome time! and maybe some lamington cake.
I had to Google that because I’d never heard of it, and now I want 12.
Take a Xanax/have a VB and think about Australia!
Is someone willing to spoil what “That Scene” is in Outlander? I’m super curious…
I turned down a perfectly good pitch about Lev Grossman’s The Magicians trilogy because we do not run essays about new books by male authors
ahhhh I fucking love this site.
also Choire’s piece is fantastic
I read the first one, got like 30 pages into the second one and could not continue b/c Quentin was so self-absorbed and obnoxious. Toasties: should I try again with the second one so that I can read the third?? I trust your wisdom.
For what it’s worth, I found 2nd-book Quentin even more irritating than 1st-book Quentin, plus the 2nd book has a reeeeeaaaally problematic scene involving Julia that made me realize for once and for all that I’m not psychokinetic, because if I were I would have set the book aflame with THE POWER OF MY RAGE (Choire has a really smart, interesting discussion of said scene in his piece).
BUT, apparently 3rd-book Quentin gets it together somewhat? I dunno, maybe skip the second and go straight for that.
I would say, skip it. I loved these books but am very aware that they’re Not For Everyone, and that’s ok.
For whatever reason, Quentin didn’t ping my “fuck this guy and his self absorbed bullshit”-o-meter. I get why he does for other people. It takes him a long time to get his shit together and frankly, life is too short to read books that piss us off.
My main concern is that I’m missing out on something awesome.
I think if you didn’t like the first book, and Quentin is driving you up a wall, you will probably not finish the third book feeling like you just read something awesome. That being said, sometimes I finish books I don’t care for just because I don’t want the book to win. So, I hear you on this one.
That being said, one of the things that I like about these books is that they’re a coming of age story where the main character actually grows the fuck up, not just gets older. So, there is light at the end of the tunnel, if you do choose to finish the series.
2nd book Quentin is The Worst, but second book Julia is The Best.
I would recommend it! Particularly for Julia’s storyline, which completely sucked me in. IMO the “problematic” (ugh, that word) scene in question shouldn’t stop you from reading it. Though I am in disagreement with people who think that a) any particular type of situation or scene should be off-limits, full-stop and b) that Grossman mishandled it in some way. Wish I could chat about this more on this thread but I don’t want to spoil you! But Choire is absolutely right in his article (which also has book 2 spoilers) that Julia is the real and great protagonist. Quentin/his whining is sort of a red herring, though I can’t help but like the little asshole. Maybe just skip his chapters! He mostly wanders around anyway, Julia’s narrative has way more forward motion.
“Problematic” is a very vague and overused word, but in my defense my English BA gets revoked if I don’t use it a least once a year 🙁
This is 100% unrelated but I’m really mad because I just gave a presentation at work (which I felt good about!), and afterwards someone (A MAN, OF COURSE) felt the need to pull me aside and ask, “Did you know your face and neck were getting red while you talked? It was really interesting because when someone else spoke it went away, but then when you started talking again it came back.”
shove off asshole
That’s what happens when I’m gearing up to ignite someone on the spot. Like I’m about to right now.
Yeah, set him on fire and walk away.
“Did you know your face turns super red when you’re on fire?”
“Maybe stop looking at my neck, dicknose.”
Are you serious? That is so bad its almost enough for you to pity him and his interpersonal skillz.
“It was really interesting” = “I’m an asshole who likes to be an asshole while assholing”
What an utter knobhead.
My go-to response in situations like that is “Thank you for sharing,” said utterly sincerely, and behind my beautifully blank face I silently finish with, “you fucking idiot.”
That reminds me of when I was a teenager and at a local concert, and the band was nice enough to pick me out from the audience and play a song for me. (They do this at every concert, I later found out, but I felt SO SPECIAL.) My mother leaned forward, poked me, and whispered “you’re BLUSHING!” and all the excitement went out of me like a deflated balloon.
EVERYONE THANK YOU your replies made me feel so much better.
I really sympathize with you about turning red. I have known for a long time that I blush (I can tell when it’s happening cause I feel the heat in my face) and I know I turn red if I scratch my skin at all. One day though I was at a restaurant with my husband and I went to the restroom and saw that my neck was just bright red. When I got back to the table I asked him if I had been so very red for long. He said “Yes, your neck turns red like that sometimes when you are having an animated conversation. I just figured it was a normal thing.” Ugh skin turning all red and ridiculous. I also turn really red in the heat and I live in Texas so it’s hot pretty frequently.
Also that guy is an ass!
Ahhhh I blush uncontrollably also, like, when someone says my name in a meeting that I’m not even presenting at? Which I did not realize until the holiday party, when someone mentioned it, which is a much more reasonable time, everyone is a little bit tipsy, no one was mean about it, it’s a good thing for me to know I guess. But if someone pulled me aside after a meeting! I don’t even know what I’d say, something horribly snarky I hope.
I’ve fielded shit like this from dudes, but, like, in college, and if they were otherwise nice I took the opportunity to educate them – “Yes, I do have hairs growing out of the moles on my arm, but you should know that this is not polite to mention to people, especially women who tend to be more self-conscious about their body hair” is what I said to the guy I was good friends with who I know lacked social skills, and “Thanks! You’re so *helpful*!” is what I said to the jackass in the newsroom, while rolling my eyes.
OH MY GOD JUST SAW THIS HATE HIMMMM
i really liked snowpiercer.
i enjoyed it as pretty images, as so many more serious things (an allegory for capitalism! a takedown of white (handsome bearded) saviorism!), as a gory romp, as what one friend called “charlie and the chocolate factory without any candy.”
i mentioned it once in an open thread but i’ll say it here again: when jamie bell’s character is trying to remember the taste of steak, and chris evans’ character says it’s best not to remember…it’s because jamie bell was A BABY ON THE TRAIN HE NEVER ATE REAL STEAK YOU GET WHAT I’M SAYIN.
I am PICKING UP WHAT YOU’RE PUTTING DOWN. And the Charlie and the Chocolate Factory phrase is perfect, please thank your friend for it (and thank you for sharing it).
“I knew what a certain kind of steak tasted like when you were a baby…” *AWKWARD*
I get what you’re sayin’ and EWWWWWW!
D:
I loved the film. I liked the (strongly made, IMO) point was just to stand the “White Man Saves Errbody” trope on its head, first by showing Chris Evans’ character to actually be horrible, and then by having him fail, with the people he was trying hardest to save dead or eaten by polar bears.
Also Chris Evans’ confession scene was heartbreaking and horrifying.
I haven’t read the Outlander books, but I know a lot of people who do, and I have heard there is about an equal amount of rape of them to GoT (and there is even some in the first ep!) and I also do not entirely agree that GoT is not feminist either, sooooooo let’s just say I have problems with that statement that Outlander is the most feminist thing evar.
Huh. I’ve read most of the Outlander books and all of the GoT books, and I would definitely not compare them in terms of rape. I can only think of one or two rape scene in the Outlander books and one of them is the rape of man, which I don’t think we ever see in GoT.
I would say, though, that there’s more direct treatment of rape in Outlander, maybe? In GoT, the rapes usually happen to extras, while issues of sexual violence are much more foregrounded in Outlander (which is actually why I might argue that it’s “more” feminist,” if that’s a thing that people want to say).
I mean, I don’t like saying one thing is “more feminist” than anything else anyway. I would argue GoT is feminist in other ways, but both series definitely have their problematic elements.
I will say that I do really like how Outlander’s protagonist seems to be pretty unabashedly sex positive – like it’s very clear that she enjoys sex and gets pleasure from it, and that’s always nice to see.
There is a fair amount of rape (of both men and women), but I feel like Outlander treats the events with an appropriate amount of trauma and horror. That said, I also think most of the rape in the books aligns with the treatment of women in that time. It’s not gratuitous and it is traumatic.
I’ve always had a conflicted shame about the series, so reading that AHP article was rather liberating. I may be ride-or-die now.
I don’t think there’s as much rape in the Outlander books as there is in GoT, but also (SPOILER?) it’s not limited to man raping woman.
I go back and forth so much on whether or not GoT is feminist. Both the book and show are filled with fantastic, well-fleshed-out female characters and explore how those characters are trapped in the patriarchy that is Westeros. The TV show in particular, however, looooves to fill its shots with naked prostitutes and wenches at best doing it consensually, and at worst being raped. So while there are lots of feminist things to love, I always get the impression that the show is being pitched to a primarily male audience. Outlander may or may not be the most feminist thing ever (never read the books, but liked what I read in the AHP article!), but it certainly sounds like it’s being pitched with the idea of a female audience as much more than a side-thought.
I disliked that as well. GoT is full of interesting female characters who are placed in a variety of circumstances which they occaisionally rise to and sometimes they dont and it’s interesting to see what choices they make and why and what that leads to. Also most of them are more concetrated on staying alive than who their boyfriends will be.
And yeah I dont like the idea that one story can be inherently feminist and therefore another story (particularly if there is anything remotely considered ‘problematic’) cant be.
Oh yeah, not denying the unnecessary sexposition in that show is terrible.
Let’s not lend credence to the notion that fictional M/M rape (or rape in most configurations) is particularly controversial among romance fans, feminist-identified or no. It’s like a central pillar of slashfic
I hate The Magicians so much. It’s such an excellent concept that’s ruined by spending the entire time in the brain of a whiny privileged dude. Oh, it turns out magic is hard? How very sad for you.
But wait did you read Choire’s piece? Because I feel like it gets at this exact frustration that so many of us have with the series! (which is obviously actually about Julia)
I just finished it, and he makes some good points, but I am not willing to read through two enraging books to get to a third that apparently pays off. Also I think it should be about Julia, but I don’t know that I buy that it is.
Yes this. After what happened to Alice in the first book, I was done.
This. The only reason I made it through was because I had borrowed the audiobook from the library and was able to do other things while Q whined. His headspace was so toxic that I wasn’t able to continue with the series.
Yesssss.
I keep thinking I should read them, because the premise sounds right up my alley, but then I read what they’re about and the main character and I’m like, NOPE.
Have you read The Girl Who Circumnavigated Fairyland in a Ship of Her Own Making? It’s lovely and does some amazing things with the idea of the magical world and losing it.
I hadn’t heard of that and it looks brilliant, thankyou!
Ditto; thanks!
I have not, but now I will!
The Girl Who Fell Beneath Fairyland and Led the Revels There is also excellent and is the second in the series. I am a big fan of Catherynne Valente and she is a really great writer of fractured fairy tales. For adult books, both Deathless and Six Gun Snow White are really good.
I also loved the 2nd one; the third one felt a little rushed though (still good, but not as great as the others). I tried reading Palimpsest but just couldn’t get into the style for some reason.
Someone sent me this tweet that Lev Grossman wrote, and it both explained some things and made me confident in my decision not to read the second and third books.
Yeah, I really tried, because my sister LOVES them, but I couldn’t even get through the first one. It does come in handy for propping open my window, though.
I did not enjoy The Magicians, but I respect it because I fully believe that Grossman knowingly set out to release highly concentrated toxic fumes of loathsome, callous, destructive self-pity and self-dramatization, and the fact that I was almost knocked unconscious by it is a sign of his efficacy as an artist.
I LOVED SNOWPIERCER (major spoilers incoming)
I know a lot of people weren’t on board with the ending, but I really liked it, actually! I mean, the train is capitalism, obviously; I liked that the end of movie argues that capitalism will never be made equal through capitalism, that busting open the system is the only way out, and that, while that might be an extinction-class event, it’s still worth it, and there is still hope, not matter how small (plus, I reeeeeally am not on board with taking this movie completely literally). I also appreciated the racial breakdown between the front of the train and the back of the train, and that the two survivors (that we see) are not white.
Also, I’m am a big fan of the director and his sense of the absurd; I loved the propaganda classroom (how completely bonkers was that scene?!) and the bizarre butcher cult, and everyone pausing briefly in their attempts to massacre each other for the new year.
About the only thing I wasn’t on board with was how grossed out everyone was about the bugs. I thought it was going to be so much worse, actually! I was expecting the protein bars to be soylent green, so the vat of cockroaches was sort of a relief/disappointment.
Actually, I was constantly expecting more cannibalism. I thought the little kids were being taken for child steaks. Like, they showed Timmy shoved into the little cubbyhole and I still was expecting the other kid to be steaks.
YEAH, the big show with Ed Harris cooking the steaks and where are the children and I continue to be (pleasantly!) surprised that that was not the case.
The second the camera focused on that steak I leaned across to my boyfriend and whisper-shouted, “he likes kids, FOR DINNER”
Eating the kids would make a lot more sense. It would make so much sense. It would also work as a nice culling method.
I’m glad I’m not the only one who was expecting cannibalism around every corner.
This is everything I came down here to say, even down to the cockroaches.
100% agree on the cockroaches. That’s just a really sensible protein source under the circumstances.
i agree about the ending. i also liked that the two survivors, besides not being white, were also “train babies”—that they’d never been part of a pre-train system. i thought the movie was still surprisingly generous with curtis’ character—he got his redemption (losing his hand to save a child) when it could have easily ended with him just falling apart.
also re: the bugs, i kind of loved how the movie kept faking out on cannibalism, only to land with a whammy in the form of curtis’ monologue.
Yes. YES. So well said.
I really liked Snowpiercer, but I made the mistake of seeing it with a friend who REFUSED to believe there would be classes on a train. REFUSED. I think I tried to convince him for forty or so slightly drunken minutes that trains, even today by their nature, have classes. People would be sorted into economic classes and sections by default based on the tickets they could afford, and the movie tells you that the first class passengers took the supplies of the lower class passengers when the train began so they were very clearly following standard train ticketing procedure. Then it occurred to me that trying to explain this to a willful idiot makes me a bigger idiot so I gave up.
I also had a long conversation with someone about my theory that they didn’t just need tail sectioners for child labor but also as a pest disposal method, because if you have that many bugs that you can feed them all those protein bars every day that is a lot of bugs and it would probably be taxing to the internal climate control system that’s already running a fucking rich guy sauna to have a bug outlet to the world outside the train which you open every day. But I enjoyed that conversation.
My temp sitter (new full-timer starts next Mnday) texted three minutes before I was expecting her to WALK IN THE DOOR this morning to tell me she was pregnant, had morning sickness, and would not be in this week at all. I literally cried.
noooOOOOOOOOOOOO NICOLE
can you turn your child loose in a paddock for a while? Just let her wander around and graze with the horses, she’s probably be fine
i am such a monster but i feel like claire underwood about it right now
update: crowdsourced a #teen for thursday
WHOA wait a second that is some bullshit. Now we all know pregnancy is the worst, but 1. She TEXTED you. 2. THREE MINUTES before she was supposed to arrive. 3. To tell you that due to pregnancy, WHICH YOU ALSO HAVE, she is incapacitated for an ENTIRE WEEK from being a human being. DTMFA, Nicole.
“CONGRATULATIONS, HOW WONDERFUL”
OMG I would have cried too! And she must be aware that you are also pregnant and need a sitter to work?
I wish you lived closer Nicole, I have an excellent babysitter right across the street.
That is some straight-up NONSENSE. As a currently pregnant person (and congrats to you Nicole!), I can say that you cannot possibly predict that you will be nauseated 24 hours a day for an entire WEEK. That’s just not how this particular form of female misery works. Sitting in the vet’s office with your rabbit? BARF CITY. Sitting at home on the couch with a bucket nearby? TOTALLY FINE. She sounds like a shirker, and I am glad you have found a #suitable #teen to replace her.
I recently flew cross-country with my child, who was just over a year at the time. She was fine. I used a combination of Benadryl, Eric Carle books, and insufferably non-stop Raffi songs to keep her calm, despite an enormous amount of garbage regarding flight delays. What was not fine? The motherf*cking carseat. Did you know you have to take it with you if the child is under 2? And they must be strapped in. I built an absurd amount of arm muscle thanks to marching all over 5 different airports with a 30 lb carseat on one arm and a 20lb kid on the other. I hate you, carseat/plane safety rules. I hate you. Although I like the muscles. But still.
If you are cheap and set the kid on your lap you can forego the carseat.
Although that has its own problems. My partner’s brother and sister-in-law recently flew from Australia to the UK with their children; they chose to visit this summer because their youngest child was just coming up to the age of two and over-twos have to have their own seat, thus increasing the price. Unfortunately, while this option was cheaper, it involved holding the toddler on a parent’s lap for the entire (24 hour-ish) journey (while also looking after a three-year-old). It sounded hellish.
Yeah, I love my kid, but there is just way too much energy there for one adult to contain. It just wouldn’t have worked at all in my case.
It’s not the safest either if there’s turbulence.
Because I’m terrible, I spent all of Snowpiercer hissing at my friend about how “there’s NO WAY you could produce a meaningful quantity of any kind of food with this system. Can trains even run on icy tracks? If the world was freezing over people would obviously flee to caves, not a stupid train.”
But for real, what an uneccesarily convoluted premise for your allegory
It is a MAGIC TRAIN THE END
I don’t know, if the world was ending and Tilda Swinton told me to get on a magic train, I’d do it.
But I do love the idea of a bunch of totally reasonable people living in a cozy post-apocalyptic non-cannibalistic cave society, telling their kids about that weirdo who wanted everyone to live in a train that was going around the earth, for some reason.
I haven’t seen Snowpiercer, but based on the amount of complaining I’ve done over the gravity train in the new Total Recall*, I think I can get on board with this.
*A straight-line gravity train through Earth would take forty-two minutes, not, like, ten, and you have to evacuate the tunnel because air resistance.
Please someone just tell me what the weird Outlander sex thing is. Please tell me.
I told someone else upthread, but it might get buried–it’s not really a sex thing (although there is plenty of sex in the books, and the show if the first episode is any indicator), the scene I’m guessing that’s being referred to here is where Jaime (the male lead), beats Claire (the female lead) with a belt for disobeying him.
SPOILER
Most people seem to think it’s the punishment scene, but I kinda figured it was the scene where drugs and surprise roleplay are used to cure rape-induced PTSD. On the other hand, given that it’s described as “the heart wants what it wants”, I could be on completely the wrong track.
I haaaaaated Snowpiercer, despite being more than happy to accept the unlikely premise
– Way too much consisted of just a series of tedious massacres
– killing off Tilda Swinton and replacing her with nameless drone
– killing off the other interesting character, Edgar, early on, and the mother not much later. I don’t mind the deaths, I just cared less and less about what happened to the remaining bland people.
– The high camp of e.g. the schoolroom scene was so over-the-top satirical that it was again, like an instruction not to care very much, making the axe-massacres even less interesting
– The ‘John Hurt & Ed Harris are on the same side’ was a cool twist! Except it’s hard to believe he would have cut off his own arm and leg just to keep up appearances.
so many more little things. UGH. What was the point of the measuring girl, for example? She didn’t end up really having a role or purpose.
She was measuring the kiddos to see if they’d fit in the tiny space! I think she measured everything else out of compulsion/habit (see: everyone has a job to do, etc.)
I got that, I meant more that they built her up as a character and then didn’t do anything with her
I read the first point as “tedious massages”.
~Spoilers~
Outlander: you signed up for sexy Scottish times, but instead, here is so much dude rape and PTSD.
That book, man…I just…was not expecting the ending to “go there.”
I am generally a Window Person, with similar views to Nicole on reclining.
For my upcoming trip with the obnoxiously long flights, one of which is a red eye, the seat-choosing diagram made it look like there were two aisle seats with no seats behind them, at the back of the plane where it went from having two seats on each side to having one seat on each side. So I took those. I fully expect to find out that they are much worse than they looked on the diagram for some reason, and that that’s why no one had taken them before me.
Actually, it looks like the return flight is more in the middle of the day than I realized, so I should probably see if I can switch to a window seat for that one.
Update: it’s actually where the plane goes from three seats on either side to two. And all the window seats are, of course, taken.
If you can get that first window seat when it goes from 3 to 2 it is the best thing every for a long haul flight. Absolutely worth every penny of the $50 I spent flying SFO-AKL. More storage space! Extra leg room! Only one person to climb over when you have to pee.
Good to know! I will keep that in mind the next time I book an obnoxiously long flight.
Leslie Feinberg not quite as an enamoured with the idea of dream-casting Stone Butch Blues as we were, unfortunately: http://leslie-feinberg.tumblr.com/post/9387216868…
But good news that Stone Butch Blues will be available again very soon!
Feinberg is also a hard core Marxist (unless that’s changed recently), so this vigorous assertion of property rights is pretty cute!
lollll it’s always so funny when a writer whose work you like doesn’t really Get the internet, but I do like the idea that I’m such a powerful mogul that writing a blog post saying “it would be fun if these actors made a movie that does not exist” is the same thing as saying “I HAVE THE FILM RIGHTS TO STONE BUTCH BLUES”
Let us also cherish her use of “crowd-sourcing.” Mallory is legion.
I just have to say, I have a banner ad today on the toast that says ‘find god, be forgiven, be free’, That is all.
They were talking about Mallory, weren’t they?
HAH. Hah. Oh….hah. Still laughing…give me a minute…. Haaaaaaaah. OK. I think I'm done now.
SNOWPIERCER SUCKED, MAGICIANS IS THE GREATEST, I CAN’T GET THROUGH THE SECOND OUTLANDER BOOK BECAUSE I AM FINDING IT HELLA SLOW (BUT WILL WATCH THE SHOW FOR HOT GINGERS).
Mallory, can I borrow your Creed arms?
Aside from the obvious plot holes and untimely demise of the Thatcher Swinton, Snowpiercer’s biggest weakness was Chris Evans. Chris Evans is like Eliza Dushku in that he’s so pretty it’s easy not to notice that he’s a weak actor. It’s probably not as big a deal in a movie like Fantastic Four but it’s really obvious when he’s paired up with people like Swinton and Octavia Spencer.
Originally I hated SNOWPIERCER – more, http://metaphortunate.dreamwidth.org/71878.html – but I keep thinking about it! Weeks later! Is it a critique of attempts to reform capitalism from within, or does it go off the rails (sorry!) and end up actually saying that attempts to escape capitalism will doom us all? Anyway, a movie I can’t stop thinking over can’t be all bad.
I felt that THE MAGICIANS did an excellent job of not only describing the dull, grinding grimness of practicing a magic or juggling trick, but also evoking that exact state of mind in me while I was reading it, so I will not be picking up any of the sequels.
I am closing my eyes for all the Snowpiercer stuff because I HAVEN’T SEEN IT YET but I have Feels about the Magicians trilogy. There’s a scene in the second book that gutted me like a fish and left me flopping around all raw and shiny (with crying).
I may have sent Lev Grosman an email at 1am that expressed my Feels in a flailing and accusatory manner. He wrote back a lovely and considered email the next day.
I can therefore in good conscience recommend Magicians to everyone who likes books about magic and protagonists who are far too smart for their own good and goddamn terrible at human interaction and being happy. (The first book has a Boy pov, the second a Girl and I think the third is back to the Boy again.)
OUTLANDER TOASTIES!!!
They were talking about Mallory, weren't they?
I liked and have reread the first 2 Magician books, and didn’t so much mind the alleged protagonist being such a whiny douche–kind of the way I didn’t mind Mister Potter being such an adolescent brat in whichever HP that was. Maybe I just need to read more flawed-hero type books.
I also thought Snowpiercer was good filthy violent fun, even though White Guy Hero was boring and SWINTON shouldn’t have been disposed of so early. And I liked the ending, even though (and probably because) it was inconclusive and confusing. Also, a large part of the world gets its protein from insects, so shut up and eat your thorax.
Let's not lend credence to the notion that fictional M/M rape (or rape in most configurations) is particularly controversial among romance fans, feminist-identified or no. It's like a central pillar of slashfic
My dad is SO SO SO into the Outlander series (I think he has a reader-crush on Diana Gabaldon, because she’s a scientist, and he’s been a science teacher for the past 30 years) and has been bugging me to read it for YEARS, and I’ve been a little turd about it and been like nooooo daaaaaad we don’t have the same taste in boooooks, and I opened it randomly and landed on the smut (Red Haired Love Interest is injured, and Doctor Lady gives him a medicinal handjob???*) and LAUGHED MY BUTT OFF because my dad is so (endearingly) uptight I literally cannot imagine him reading smut. This past weekend, he was like “Chris Chris Chris I want to show you the trailer for Outlander” and I was once again a little turd about it.
Guess I have to eat my words, now. (Dammnit, AHP! The “feminist answer to GoT”?? How can I NOT read/watch it now?!)
I’ve already emailed him to ask to borrow all his books.
*(which is not to say I scorn smut! I love smut! Of the femslashy fanfiction variety, though, generally.)
My dad is SO SO SO into the Outlander series (I think he has a reader-crush on Diana Gabaldon, because she's a scientist, and he's been a science teacher for the past 30 years) and has been bugging me to read it for YEARS, and I've been a little turd about it and been like nooooo daaaaaad we don't have the same taste in boooooks, and I opened it randomly and landed on the smut (Red Haired Love Interest is injured, and Doctor Lady gives him a medicinal handjob???*) and LAUGHED MY BUTT OFF because my dad is so (endearingly) uptight I literally cannot imagine him reading smut. This past weekend, he was like "Chris Chris Chris I want to show you the trailer for Outlander" and I was once again a little turd about it.
Guess I have to eat my words, now. (Dammnit, AHP! The "feminist answer to GoT"?? How can I NOT read/watch it now?!)
I've already emailed him to ask to borrow all his books.
*(which is not to say I scorn smut! I love smut! Of the femslashy fanfiction variety, though, generally.)