Charlotte Brontë’s Most Inexplicable Denominational Burns -The Toast

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They were perfectly explicable, I mean, in the sense that she was raised in a super anti-Catholic, anti-Dissenter environment; she lived during the age of Hypatia, which I guess is reason enough. But also, for someone who flirted with universalism as much as she did (“Surely [the soul] will never be suffered to degenerate from man to fiend. No; I cannot believe that: I hold another creed, which no one ever taught me, and which I seldom mention; but in which I delight, and to which I cling; for it extends hope to all; it makes Eternity a rest—a mighty home, not a terror and an abyss”) and also fell massively in love with official Catholic Person Constantin Heger, she was super addicted to saying the most outrageous shit about various Christian denominations this side of a Jack Chick tract!

And I sort of love it? Obviously I personally disagree with her about denominational yelling, but her constant flitting from all-shall-be-reconciled-by-the-hand-of-the-Father thoughts to get-that-foul-popery-away-from-me is weirdly precious to me. She was so judgmental, and there are few things I love more than a judgmental prude who is too dead to disapprove of me personally.

There’s a scene in Jane Eyre where Jane goes back to visit the cousins who alternately abused and neglected her as a child, and she’s somehow super-serene about this past trauma but can’t resist firing off a few shots when Eliza announces she’s converting to Catholicism:

“To-morrow,” she continued, “I set out for the Continent. I shall take up my abode in a religious house near Lisle – a nunnery you would call it; there I shall be quiet and unmolested. I shall devote myself for a time to the examination of the Roman Catholic dogmas, and to a careful study of the workings of their system: if I find it to be, as I half suspect it is, the one best calculated to ensure the doing of all things decently and in order, I shall embrace the tenets of Rome and probably take the veil.”

I neither expressed surprise at this resolution nor attempted to dissuade her from it. “The vocation will fit you to a hair,” I thought: “much good may it do you!”

When we parted, she said: “Good-bye, cousin Jane Eyre; I wish you well: you have some sense.”

I then returned: “You are not without sense, cousin Eliza; but what you have, I suppose, in another year will be walled up alive in a French convent. However, it is not my business, and so it suits you, I don’t much care.”

WALLED UP ALIVE, I mean!


“And again, when of moonlight nights, on waking, I beheld her figure, white and conspicuous in its night-dress, kneeling upright in bed, and praying like some Catholic or Methodist.”

like some CATHOLIC

wait how did Anglicans pray, did they not kneel?


“One night a thunder-storm broke; a sort of hurricane shook us in our beds: the Catholics rose in panic and prayed to their saints. As for me, the tempest took hold of me with tyranny: I was roughly roused and obliged to live.”

This is the most magnificently bitchy thing Lucy Snowe ever said, and she said a great many magnificently bitchy things. “Yes, the Catholics were thrown into a panic by a bit of a hurricane, and clutched their inert icons to their fervent chests. I – the sole Protestant, the beacon of individualism – I chose to live.”


“A strange, frolicsome, noisy little world was this school: great pains were taken to hide chains with flowers: a subtle essence of Romanism pervaded every arrangement: large sensual indulgence (so to speak) was permitted by way of counterpoise to jealous spiritual restraint. Each mind was being reared in slavery; but, to prevent reflection from dwelling on this fact, every pretext for physical recreation was seized and made the most of. There, as elsewhere, the CHURCH strove to bring up her children robust in body, feeble in soul, fat, ruddy, hale, joyous, ignorant, unthinking, unquestioning. “Eat, drink, and live!” she says. “Look after your bodies; leave your souls to me. I hold their cure—guide their course: I guarantee their final fate.” A bargain, in which every true Catholic deems himself a gainer. Lucifer just offers the same terms.”

If the word sheeple had been in common use at the time, I have no doubt that Charlotte Brontë would have used it here. I love that stern little Puritan Lucy Snowe so, so much. She considered putting butter on your bread a vile concession to sensualism. Eat rocks and sleep on nails, that’s the sensible, English way. People who eat and drink are Eloi and Lucy Snowe is the original Morlock.


“I was a Lutheran once at Bonn.”


“The little book amused, and did not painfully displease me. It was a canting, sentimental, shallow little book, yet something about it cheered my gloom and made me smile; I was amused with the gambols of this unlicked wolf-cub muffled in the fleece, and mimicking the bleat of a guileless lamb. Portions of it reminded me of certain Wesleyan Methodist tracts I had once read when a child; they were flavoured with about the same seasoning of excitation to fanaticism. He that had written it was no bad man, and while perpetually betraying the trained cunning—the cloven hoof of his system—I should pause before accusing himself of insincerity.”

It doesn’t offend me, how wrong you are, like a Methodist. CHARLOTTE. You disingenuous little frowner!


“There she read old books, taken from her uncle’s library…mad Methodist Magazines, full of miracles and apparitions, of preternatural warnings, ominous dreams, and frenzied fanaticism; the equally mad letters of Mrs. Elizabeth Rowe from the Dead to the Living; a few old English classics. From these faded flowers Caroline had in her childhood extracted the honey; they were tasteless to her now.”

It’s easy to overlook the anti-Methodism in her books for all the more overt anti-Catholicism, but please don’t miss it, it’s delightful. You faded flowers! You mad apparition-seers! You…you magazine writers!


“He could see in me nothing Christian: like many other Protestants, I revelled in the pride and self-will of paganism.”

WELL THEN.

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All I can think of now is our choir teacher yelling at us to stop singing like Methodists and commit.
16 replies · active 485 weeks ago
Iiiiii'm not sorryy-yy.
Anglicans totes kneel.

I was a Catholic once in Barcelona.
5 replies · active 485 weeks ago
As someone who was raised (and still is) Jewish, I have never understood the "Catholics aren't actually Christian" thing. Like, they believe in the whole Christ-as-messiah bit, so doesn't that make them Christian? Like, that's why Jews for Jesus aren't actually Jewish?
57 replies · active 430 weeks ago
I was a Catholic once in Italy. Forgive me, upright high Anglicanism of my mother.
2 replies · active 485 weeks ago
Anglicans kneel to pray, too, but they do it with a glass of sherry in hand.
5 replies · active 485 weeks ago
Is “I was a Lutheran once at Bonn" like "I was a lesbian once in college"?
2 replies · active 485 weeks ago
Had Jack Chick been this magnificently freezing, subtle, and shady maybe I'd want HIS words on a tote bag.

Instead, I'll take 50 with "I was roughly roused and obliged to live" in large print Helvetica, thanks.
Mad Methodist Magazine never really caught on until they went non-denominational and changed the name.
I choose to read that last one as being about "Methodist Mad magazines", and none of you can stop me.

"...full of miracles and apparitions, of preternatural warnings, ominous dreams, and those two spies who keep blowing each other up."
1 reply · active 485 weeks ago
Nothing brings my Irish American Catholic raised heart more joy than a good Catholic burn. They make me laugh at their accuracy but also feel superior because in that exact moment they are the ones being the bad mocking Christians and I am morally superior. So it's a two for one of joy.
2 replies · active 485 weeks ago
I would guess that spontaneous personal prayer of the "upright in your bed" sort seems more Methodist or Catholic than Anglican if you go about your Anglicanism as my family did. I was raised by my Anglican grandmother, and she was never a "let's pray for guidance in this daily situation" type of person. She saved up all her biggest problems to pray about in the pew on schedule, and the rest of the week you looked around at your problems, you figured out what had to be done, and then you did it. If she believed in spontaneous personal prayer, she kept it very private.

Undignified to publicly importune the Almighty, I guess.
1 reply · active 485 weeks ago
Just here to post my favorite Bronte vid: Bronte Sisters Power Dolls! Oh, how I wish they were real. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NKXNThJ610
1 reply · active 485 weeks ago
I am just now halfway through Villette, hard on the heels of Jane Eyre, thanks to The Toast. I've been hoping for some Brontë commentary.

(BTW -- anyone else think Wuthering Heights is better? Though I'll admit watching how silly Charlotte can get with grandiloquent language is amusing... *ducks*)
14 replies · active 485 weeks ago
Ada Marie's avatar

Ada Marie · 485 weeks ago

It was such a paranoid anti- Catholicism. Lucy saw all the Catholic's she met as a a junta to keep her away from the man she loved.
1 reply · active 485 weeks ago
Finally, web content that speaks to my hideously specific interests.
Since I was a child who devoured the Anne of Green Gables series, I have been perplexed by these minute differences between the denominations. Does anyone have a handy chart? Points if it's from LMM years.
7 replies · active 484 weeks ago
Turnip Truck's avatar

Turnip Truck · 485 weeks ago

"“He could see in me nothing Christian: like many other Protestants, I revelled in the pride and self-will of paganism.”"

GPOY
1 reply · active 485 weeks ago
"She was so judgmental, and there are few things I love more than a judgmental prude who is too dead to disapprove of me personally."

SAME.
1 reply · active 485 weeks ago
mad Methodist Magazine

SHIT I can't decide between two not very good jokes about this. let's just say I preferred it to Mad Methodist TV.

edit: oh I was beaten to the joke. but alfred e. neuman's 'Predestination MADly considered," how's that
I was briefly an Episcopalian in New York, and can confirm that Episcopalians do quite a bit of kneeling. Not as much as the Catholics, perhaps, but still a fair amount.
2 replies · active 485 weeks ago
Ganymede's avatar

Ganymede · 485 weeks ago

I too love Bronte's individualism. SPOILER

When Mr Rochester is trying to persuade Jane to be his mistress, he actually says that it's ok for her reputation to be ruined because she is alone in the world, and "nobody cares for you" (ie about you or what you do).

This is followed by one of the most empowering phrases I've ever read, from Jane:

"I care for myself!"

Seems to me a very deep feminist battle cry. We are not defined by our relation to others, we do not exist only in the eyes or frameworks of others, we are ourselves and can take a wonderful responsibility for that.
13 replies · active 485 weeks ago
Glorious.

When I was in seminary, I had a document on my computer of "Terrible things pre-1900 theologians have said." It was quite the collection of sick burns.

Every now and then I still copy down one by a critic who was a contemporary of some writer I'm studying. My favorite is the man who snidely remarked that Eliot's "Ash-Wednesday" is "an oily puddle of emotional noises."
3 replies · active 485 weeks ago
"They called me mad at Divinity School! But now, with my miraculous Apparition Projector, I will rule both Heaven and Earth! They shall kneel before me!!!"

--"Missionary of Doom," by Elle Rowe Hubbard; Mad Methodist Magazine, April 1836
I then returned: “You are not without sense, cousin Eliza; but what you have, I suppose, in another year will be walled up alive in a French convent. However, it is not my business, and so it suits you, I don’t much care.”

The antipathy is so cold it burns
1 reply · active 485 weeks ago
Can you organise a religious burn competition between Charlotte Bronte and Evelyn Waugh please Mallory?
This post and the ensuing comments have MADE MY DAY.

And isn't it hard NOT to briefly be a Catholic in Italy? The basilicas are just so darn pretty....
4 replies · active 485 weeks ago
Methodists exciting people to fanaticism? That would be fun. These days all we seem to do is bore people to death in committee meetings.
“I was a Lutheran once at Bonn.”

^ So was Peggy Peabody, and look at her now!
1 reply · active 485 weeks ago
Always here for sick denominational burns. #teampapist
Third March Sister's avatar

Third March Sister · 485 weeks ago

Raised as a Presbyterian, I was always taught that Catholics are Christians, but we reformed away from their hierarchy and our faith was our own responsibility. I never liked that the international press saw the Pope as the spokesman for all Christians, or that his decisions were expected to be important to Protestants. When the child rape scandals broke, I remember hoping that it would bring more corruption to light, maybe causing a mass migration away from the church. Now I do not consider myself a Christian any more. Christ, protect me from your followers!

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