It’s true. I have recently (yesterday!) purchased a motor vehicle. It was a pleasant and invigorating experience, and my car is very beautiful and full of confusing technology and excessive purse storage. I have named him Dracarys, and he will serve me well. Having accomplished this task in less than 48 hours with only a brief flurry of emails, one telephone call outsourced to A Man, and a ten-minute in-person visit merely to sign pre-arranged paperwork and receive a bucket of swag and two sets of keys, I now wish to share with you the lessons I have learned along the way. They’re applicable to those of you who might want to purchase a new or certified pre-owned vehicle, I will not pretend to know anything about the niceties of used-car-haggling. I hear Roxane Gay’s dad is who you should bring along for that. Otherwise, this is what you should do.
Step One:
Figure out exactly what car you want to buy. Do this online. Do not walk into a dealership. The internet is literally stuffed with rankings and reviews and Best Mid-Price Blue Sedans lists. “Shouldn’t I test drive some cars?” No. Can you drive a car? You’re set. After you’ve been driving it for a week, you won’t be able to imagine driving a different car anyway. Why spend a couple hours of your life trying random cars like you’ve flown into Phoenix for business and are trying to figure out where the parking brake is on your rental? It’s a new or certified pre-owned car. They drive. They go vrroooom. I am glad you have picked a car.
Step Two:
Discover who sells this car in your area. Let us now move to my beautiful, personal story of triumph. I decided on a particular car, as per Step One, let’s call it a Dragon. There are two Dragon dealerships in Salt Lake City. I went to the dealership websites.
Let’s get one thing straight: I do not talk on the phone.
You don’t have to! You never have to talk on the phone if you don’t want to. That is because you can…
Step Three:
Contact the internet sales department! There will either be an email address for this, or a generic “Make an Inquiry” box, into which you type “please email me, I would like to buy a car.” Then you wait. You will probably wait about four minutes, because car dealers are like travel agents were fifteen years ago: hungry, and aware the end of their industry is upon them. Okay, you have received an email from a person. Ideally, you have received emails from a minimum of two dealerships. If there is only one in your town, email one in the NEXT town. You need two to tango, trust me.
Step Four:
Say “Hi! I’ll be doing this over email. I would like to purchase a 2014 Model X with the extra-fire package. What is your best price on that?” At this point, I received a very rapid response from each of my two dealers. Dealer One said: “That model is retailing for Money, I can offer you a discount which will bring it down to Money – $1000.” Dealer Two said: “I would have to order that in for you special, so it would probably cost Money.” NOW THE DANCE BEGINS.
SIDEBAR: In lieu of offering you a PRICE, you may hear “I can offer you 0.9% financing over 60 months!” Pay no attention to these words. You want the best price, not to be distracted with what your monthly payments will be. And, if you are actually planning on paying cash, do not tell them until the very, very end, because they make a lot of money off financing, and you will probably not get as good a deal if they know upfront they will not be making said money. Speaking of not mentioning things, if you have a trade-in, keep it to your damn self until I tell you it’s safe to mention it.
Step Five:
Email Dealer Two (or whoever made you the inferior offer) and say: “Oh! I’m talking to Dealer One, and they have one on the lot they’re willing to offer me for Money-$1000.”
SIDEBAR: The beauty of this system is you need speak only truth! You are merely a CONDUIT for the truth to be passed back and forth between two dealerships. You are not the enemy, the other dealer is. It is they with whom they do battle. You will drink the blood of the fallen.
Now, in my case, Dealer Two responded instantly to that message to announce that HE HAD FOUND a 2014 Model X with the extra-fire package, right there on the lot, like magic! Isn’t that incredible? And I could have it for Money – $1200!
Step Six:
Email the Dealer Formerly Known As The Best Deal and say “I’m talking to Dealer Two, and he can do Money – $1200.” Wait. Dealer One can now do Money – $1400! You’re no fool. You know we’re going to email Dealer Two and tell him that Dealer One has countered with Money – $1400. Wait.
Step Seven:
This is a great time to take yourself over to truecar.com, plug in the model and year and package info, and see: 1) the MSRP (what you would pay for this car if you just showed up like a yokel and handed them your money no questions asked) 2) the invoice price (probably what the dealer paid for the car and will basically never go below – I mean, it can happen, but I’m not a WIZARD) and 3) what other people in your area have wound up paying for this car. It will also say things like “a good price for this car is below X,” “a great price for this car is below Y,” and “a YA GOT SERVED price for this car is F for FOOL.” Then you know these things, it’s nice. Back to the dance.
Step Eight:
Obviously, this elaborate gamesmanship could go on forever. It will not, though, because one of two things will happen!
Scenario One: Eventually, one dealer will just give up. You have taken him to the ragged edge of invoice pricing, and he can go no further. In this scenario, you will buy from his competitor. We’ll come back to this part. But you have won!
Scenario Two: Both dealers will have gone through the basically inevitable step of saying “I have to go talk to my GM to see if I can go any lower on this car.” (Spoiler alert: when the alternative is losing the sale to another dealer, the GM will tell them they can go lower on this car.) At which point, they will say to you “I am authorized to do whatever it takes to beat the other dealer.” This is great! This is not helpful, however, to your dance. You want numbers. Again, you will speak only truth: “Hahahaha,” you type, “that is exactly what Dealer One is saying to me! What is your absolute bottom dollar on this car?” They may not tell you. They may simply repeat that they will beat the other guy. What do you do now?
Step Nine:
Those numbers you ran earlier on truecar.com? Now you’re going to use them. You are probably in “great price” territory already, having brought these two dealers to their knees. Whatever increments prices have been dropping by ($200, $400, etc), double up, and make sure that the amount you are about to offer is ASPIRATIONAL and BOLD. Email your favourite of the two dealers. Trust me: you will have a favourite by now. Mine was Dealer One. Email him and say “Okay, I’d really like to buy this car from you. If you can give me this car at Most Recent Best Offer – 2x The Usual Drop We’ve Been Doing As We Go Back and Forth, I will not email Dealer Two and ask him to beat it.” He will probably say you have a deal. If he does not, you’re not an idiot, take it to Dealer Two.
NOW, if he says yes, you could theoretically still email that number to Dealer Two, like a jerk. It’s probably fine. I couldn’t do it! I gave that nice man my word, and we barely scraped above invoice, and I was very happy.
The important thing is, one of these two dealers is going to give you the absolute lowest price you can get away with paying for this car. You have won.
Optional Step Ten:
Do you have a trade-in? THIS IS WHEN YOU MENTION IT. Trade that lil fucker in. In our case, we had already unloaded our 1999 Chevy Tracker for a thousand bucks to a nice young couple and wished them luck.
Optional Step Eleven:
DISASTER STRIKES. Because you cannot talk on the phone, but want to pre-do most of the paperwork (again, you want no surprises when you walk into the dealership to sign), you pass this phase off to your husband, A Man. (Gay women would never be so silly, I do not include them in this disaster scenario.) While your husband is on the phone, he remembers that you need a roof rack. Because he is not engaged in THE DANCE, he finishes the call, walks into the room where you are working on your misandrist blog, and says “we’re good to go! Oh, I had forgotten we needed a roof rack.” It transpires that he has paid MSRP for the roof rack, and thus eaten into some of your hard-won gains. You will hold this against him for at least a day, probably less if your misandrist blog money is not paying for the majority of said car. But it’s the PRINCIPLE.
Step Twelve:
Go pick up your car (do not buy an extra warranty, do not buy magical sealing paint, do not buy anything extra.) It is yours now. Finance, pay cash, who cares. You have forced men to the breaking point and beyond. You are a feminist hero. Play Liz Phair very loudly on the trip home.
Special thanks to John Adams of Jody Wilkinson Acura of Salt Lake City, who was a really nice guy. Additional thanks to Twitter user Pete Gaines, who spent many years in the car business and told me I didn’t have to talk to someone if I didn’t want to.
Tags: advice, cars, feminism, misandry, negotiation, personal triumphs
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It IS true that only wizards can buy dragons for less than invoice price.
But since they all live in New York City they don’t need them, for they commute on the subway!
Dragons are so useful for getting out to the Hamptons, though.
Ronbledore just travels further back in time when you could buy a whole bag full dragons for a penny. And also people dressed up for air travel and everyone said “sir” and “ma’am.”
THIS IS AMAZING. My mom would tell you to roar!
Wonder if works for used cars as well?
I don’t think you should buy a used car without test-driving it. One can dream, though…
Oh, yeah, you definitely want to test drive a used car.
We actually had a marvelous experience buying our first used car from a suburban dealership (and Wichita’s suburbs are teensy farm towns)–the dude was nice, and patient, and when we realized we had to have insurance before driving it off the lot, he called to around to agents he knew to find one who was still in the office at 6:30 pm. We’d love to go back there, but it’s contingent on their having a car with a dang bench seat for my husband’s mail route. (He works the pedals with his left foot and sits in the middle so he can reach the mailboxes–been straddling the gearshift for a year now.)
A few other options to consider: a) a minivan (such as the dodge grand caravan) with a small cooler or other solidly constructed box between the seats and a cushion or b) asking your used car dealer if they talk to buyers and can look for a right hand drive jeep. My dad swears by the van, my mom swears by the jeep.
Okay, but can we conduct the in-person request for a test drive by scrawling letters on a memo board instead of speaking to another person?
Yay for new wheels!
I’m currently working on buying car insurance without talking to anyone – will probably apply similar tactics.
My homeowner’s insurance was just subject to a big rate hike (despite not filing a claim), so I went around and got a bunch of quotes for the same level of coverage from other insurance companies (ONLINE ONLY, WROTE “DO NOT CALL” IN PHONE NUMBER FIELD). Armed with my lowest quote, I emailed my current insurer and was like, “Company X is willing to give me the same coverage for Y dollars less than you, please match their rate or I will switch.” Somewhat surprisingly, they wrote back and were like, “Nope, not matching anything,” so I pulled up my saved quote on Company X’s page and ordered that ish up. So insurance companies may not play ball in the same way as car dealers, but shopping around online is still totally worth it.
I insured both my car and my motorcycle with only one guiding principle: Select cheapest policy with equivalent coverage that can be purchased on internet without ever speaking to a human.
Nicole, you are a wonder and hero to us all.
Also I bought my car outright (my beloved little micro-car Honda Fit), and there was nothing so glorious as sitting in the dealer’s office and having this conversation.
“We have very good financing.”
“I do not need financing.”
“Oh, you have financing from your bank? Ours is much better, we can beat it…”
“No, I do not need financing.”
“Our deal is so good though that you can’t beat it!”
“I don’t need to beat it. I will be paying cash.”
[several beats]
“Oh, I guess you really don’t need financing, then.”
“No, thank you.”
[But for real I will always test drive now and forever because I love, love, love driving and the feel of a car is very important to me, also is the size of it and where everything is located and head room and foot room and stuff and brake power and acceleration speed and visuals [I did not get a Cruze specifically because I hated the back window view and the accelerator, etc.] and also….it is fun to drive a bunch of different cars and give fake contact info to dealers and say SEE YA.]
Ooooh, I am a member of the Honda Fit club too! Love it, though I was not as amazing as you and couldn’t pay cash. That’s what happens when your old car is unexpectedly totaled. (Though I guess no cars are really expectedly totaled?)
Another vote for needing-to-test-drive-because-feel-is-critical. I bought a different car than I expected to this past time (Mazda 3, which I lurrrve) because I just loved how it drove so much. It’s zippy and fast and wonderful.
I did this same thing, I had no idea that I should not have mentioned it!!!
I had that almost that conversation when we bought our house. No, we didn’t buy it outright but we already had great financing (unbeatable, seriously. 0.5% above prime) from our current mortgage company and it was GLORIOUS explaining real estate agents that no, you really can’t beat the deal we already have. They were always so sad. 😀
We had a similar conversation re: financing, but then they offered 0% financing for 3.5 years, and we pretty much were like “well, your money to burn, then,” and took the financing. I still don’t understand how that works at all in their favor- “no, we don’t want your money now- give it to us later, when it is worth less.”
This is PERFECT and I thank you for it very much. I have never bought a new car, but it is something that I fear, and I fear it much less now.
Congratulations on your triumph.
Tell him to jump higher/Tell him to run farther/Make him measure up
This is PHENOMENAL.
Do you (any of you) have a guide to selling your beloved vehicle to a new owner? I haven’t done this before and don’t know how to negotiate from my end of things.
I did this last year, but my “method” was to take three weeks to find someone who wasn’t a scammer or a flake (if you post on craigslist like I did, you will get lots of these; anyone who starts talking about “shipping” the car (what?) or buying it without coming to look at it first is a scammer) and then repeatedly cave in to this one genuinely interested person’s requests to lower the price. It was cool, though; she was a very nice grad student who probably needed the extra cash more than I did.
I guess one semi-useful piece of information is that you should allow them to get the car inspected by a mechanic of their choice, but that should be at their expense.
Also, maybe everyone already knows this (I didn’t), but there are some formalities you need to take care of, depending on your state, including a certificate of sale and assigning the title. If you’re still paying off the car, your lender probably has the title, so you want to get in touch with them about how to take care of it. (I used the money the buyer paid me to pay off the loan and sent her the title like a week later, but I’m not sure how many buyers would be cool with that.)
It’s all paid off and I’m asking what I think is a very fair price for it so I don’t want to drop too much. It’s got a dent in the front bumper that I’m getting an estimate on today, and I’ve got people interested who would be down with me not fixing the bumper if I lowered the price a little. I don’t know how to numbers!
The cars I had to sell had deadlines attached to them. Had to move, could not take said car with me, or somesuch. I advertised $price OBO. You’ve seen it. You know it stands for Or Best Offer. That way, I was assured of selling before my deadline and guaranteed a bidding war to keep the price high. Of course, I had to set that initial price well. Good luck.
WHERE WAS THIS TWO YEARS AGO?! I continue to have pretend arguments with the passel of weirdos I had to deal with to get MY beloved Honda Fit. Congratulations, Nicole; I will be recommending this to all car-buying friends.
HONDA FITS 4 LYFE
I love mine. Mine made a round-trip crossing five states and four provinces in three weeks with two humans and a cat plus a weight bench, a bookshelf, and a 70-pound sack of rice. I put an entire storage unit’s worth of stuff into mine including a full-size assembled DESK. I fit myself and two burly dudes and the two burly dudes’ entire suite of large suitcases and barrack boxes and equipment sacks, easily. It fits EVERYTHING. It fits my bike without having to even pop the wheel off!
We will probably sell mine in another few years once we start having kids and need more space, but in the meantime I LOVE IT.
Don’t sell your Fit when you have kids!! I upgraded to the Fit from a Yaris and it fits two car seats and various baby accoutrements quite well!
Nicole you are my hero. I will be bookmarking this for future use.
I accidentally impulse-bought my car. I got an okay deal, but I wish I had had this. You are a glorious beacon of inspiration, Nicole.
I didn’t impulse buy, exactly, but I probably didn’t get the best deal I could have. But you know what? I think that’s okay. The payments are something I can afford, it’s my first car, and I’d almost rather have paid a little extra to avoid the stress. I literally cried in a CarMax at one point.
I can barely drive and hate doing it and live in a city with subway and now I want to buy a car
I can barely drive as well and I also want a car! Do you think you will ever leave the city and relearn to drive? I am nervous about relearning how to drive, but I want to live somewhere more rural later on in life. I miss rambling walks without people around.
I didn’t learn to drive at all until I was 24. Insurance will be expensive for a few years, but you’ll be fine. 🙂
I didn’t learn until I was 30! Moving to a farm (and away from public transit and walkable stuff) made it kind of necessary. I was pretty resentful at first, even so.
I basically want to be in this/a city forever. It’s how I operate.
They gave me a Rice Krispie treat when I came in to pick up the car, because Utah. A Utah car dealership, at first glance, is there to sell pictures of the dealers’ children, with cars as an afterthought.
That’s hilarious. I bought my car using your methods and when I came in to sign they had a BIGASS GIANT BOW on the car, it was in the middle of the showroom & had a sign that said “Happy New Year, Melanie” on it (since it was New Year’s Eve – I always buy cars on New Year’s Eve, they looooove me for it) and there were balloons.
(I’m pretty sure it’s because they were all wowed by my powers of buying a car without stepping foot in the place or talking to a human for more than 1 minute.)
That is great in all the ways.
How fun! Maybe they also don’t like talking to people???
Extra points if the Rice Krispie treat was made by one of said children.
That’s so surreal and so cute at the same time! Who made the Rice Krispie treat? A salesman, perhaps! Or her/his partner? Does everyone get a RIce Krispie treat, or just those who fought valiantly and this treat is bestowed as a sign of respect for the conquerer?
Questions!
TOWANDA!!!!!!!!!
Is the name of my hometown, and I have yet to see Fried Green Tomatoes. I am ALWAYS confused when people who are not me or related to me get excited about Towanda.
Email! Why did I call the car dealerships like a fool??
(Honestly, I wasn’t expecting fast response rates from them but this is genius!)
This, plus the Amazing Snake Incident, has confirmed my belief that you are a Slytherin.
I, too, do not ever speak on the phone if I can avoid it. Once a week I go through my work voicemail and respond to all inquiries via email. WE HAVE THE TECHNOLOGY WHY SHOULDN’T WE USE IT.
I keep a spreadsheet of useful links on grown-up things like parenting, tax breaks, and which tax breaks will make parenting easier (and, weirdly, in the relationships page, Brene Brown’s The Power of Vulnerability), and this got entered right away. Thank you!
Would you be willing to share some of these with the class? Maybe in Open Thread? I for one could use some Internet Help with the grown-up things, especially this week (I am signing an apartment lease that may or may not leave me completely screwed, who knows, it will be An Adventure!)
Why couldn’t this have been posted a couple months ago. 🙁 I bought a car and I bought it like a *yokel* and now I am ashamed.
Me too, except it was 5 years ago. But still, like a yokel. Definitely saving this for when my poor cars dies (hopefully not for a very long time). The only possible drawback is that i miiight need to test drive first. And then leave and to all the email parts. My upper body is taller than average and some cars are shockingly low and my head/face is either touching or close to touching the roof and/or windshield.
Yes, the non-uniform of body must at least sit in a car before buying. How many cars did I have to reject decades ago before telescoping steering wheels. Seat back to allow long legs to work the clutch without banging knee. But then T-Rex arms cannot reach the steering wheel. And squat torso cannot see over the dash. More of today’s cars allow the seat and wheel to rise vertically along with a telescoping wheel.
I love all of this except one thing: unless you are an extremely averaged sized person, do at least drive the TYPE of car you are looking to buy and in the correct model year. Rent one, borrow it from a friend, etc, because I found that as a 6’1″ lady I did not fit comfortably in a Honda Fit or a Mazda 6’s passenger seat (you may, at some point, have to RIDE in your car.)
Yes, absolutely. I am only 5’9″, but most of that is in my legs. Back seats and bucket seats can be agony (stupid, short-legged men designing cars, ugh). Sometimes the driver’s seat adjusts enough, but not the passenger seat, etc.
I mean, we test drove LOTS of cars specifically because we were looking for a car that both of us could drive comfortably AND ride in comfortably. I would not have expected the car we ended up with to be the one that fit us, but once I drove it it TOTALLY was.
I’m also weird in that I don’t MIND talking to car salesmen, and the guy who sold us our car has come to our aid at least twice in getting a warranty issue (rail dust in the paint- how is that still a thing???) covered that corporate wasn’t super keen on paying for.
Also, unless you have averaged sized people who will regularly be in your car. I live w 2 guys over 6′ tall & another rapidly approaching that mark, and they’re leggy, and they vetoed the Honda Fit.
I got my Civic hybrid, though, so it’s cool.
Just fold ’em up and stick them in the trunk.
This is fascinating to me because my very tall Dude (who is 6’4″ and has a 40 inch inseam which is insane if you know inseams) drives around in our Honda Fit like it ain’t no thing.
I don’t know if it’s something about body proportions or what. I know other talls who love their Fits as well. Unfortunately, I felt like I was driving a shoe. And I had it as a work rental, too, so it wasn’t like I just drove it around the block and was like “Hm, no thank you.” I think it’s just what you’re comfortable in based on where stuff is in relation to the seats.
now I am picturing a person merrily driving a shoe, thank you
Maybe it’s a torso length thing? The spouse in particular dislikes having his head brush the ceiling of the car, which his does when he drives the Civic, too, unless he totally destroys my seat settings. But he’s okay being a passenger in it.
(40″ is a really insane inseam. The spouse & the tall kid are 6’2″ but 36″ inseam.)
Oooh, I could see it being a torso length thing. As you might guess, my Dude has a relatively short torso for his size because of his legs. Our height difference (I’m 5’2″) looks significantly less extreme when we’re sitting down because of his torso.
The Civic hybrid has the seat up/down adjustments though, right? My spouse is 6′-3″ and doesn’t have any trouble with his Civic hybrid. We discovered when we went shopping for my Subaru that we can never have sunroofs because the mechanisms take up the extra inch or two that my husband would rather occupy with his head. He fits fine in my Impreza though.
If you have kids and car seats, renting your target car for three days so you can try out your car seats and hauling the kids in and out of the car is also a must! $100 of rental saves five years of hassle.
This is great with one correction I would add. On step 9, have them deliver the car to you at your house or office. No reason to go to the dealership. I have bought 6 new cars in the past 12 years (kids grad gifts mostly) and I never go in. They have another whole set of tricks there like making you sit with the finance guy who tries to sell you a host of crap you do not want.
This is very true, and excellent advice! In my case, I had an appointment two blocks away from the dealership, and also kind of wanted to walk in and be all BOUGHT MY CAR, GIMME MY KEYS so was content to just say no no no when offered the host of crap.
Never thought of that! Genius!
Yes! I made the Fiat men drive my car to me (bought it in the next town over) and then they set up my phone-bluetooth stuff for me also.
After all was finished, I thanked the finance guy for not even trying to sell us anything extra. I was prepared, girded for battle, ready with infinite Nope, and he just didn’t even go there.
*standing ovation*
Single Ladies came on the radio about five minutes into me driving my new, post-divorce, blue-as-all-get-out car home. It was the best.
I always test-drive… but only because I buy sports cars, and I want to know how I like the handling/acceleration/general sense before I get one. “Will I feel out of control in a turn? Does it turn well at speed? How are the tires?” All that jazz.
oooooo. mmmmm. Sports Cars.
BROOK you are the coolest person.
aww, thanks.
i forgot to mention that when i test drove a BRZ, I showed up in a miniskirt, heeled boots, and fishnets. it was pretty funny to see him react to me driving it quickly. for negotiation, i’ve found it can be useful to have them off-guard.
This was a fantastic and further proof that Nicole is a more successful human than I am. When I tried to buy a (used) car a year ago, the dealerships I contacted (by phone, no less) were so unhelpful even though I was basically saying to them,”Hey, I want to give you money and I don’t know what I’m doing, please take advantage of my naïveté,” that I just gave up and moved to New York.
Now, if I’m lucky, I won’t have to drive a car ever again.
I do not like driving and I live in a the central part of a walkable city so I almost never have to drive, but the real reason I don’t have a car is that I’m afraid I’ll spend way too much money to avoid having to negotiate or talk to people on the phone/in person. This is brilliant, and me hope that one day, if I ever have to move or get tired of making 4 trips to the grocery store a week, I might actually be able to purchase a car with minimal stress/money loss. Thanks Nicole!
I bought my last three cars on eBay. LIVE DANGEROUSLY.
OK. I knew you were fearsome and awesome. But now this. Dayum!
Full disclosure: I would not have bought them if I didn’t know that my beloved would help me with repairs, etc., since they were a 1967 Mustang, a 1967 VW Type III fastback, and the 1968 Chevelle. Not exactly get-in-and-drive-em cars. =D
This post is conclusive evidence that you are a superior human woman and should be studied by children as an Example To Be Emulated.
Nicole, can you please write step-by-step guides for all the things adults supposedly should know how to do?
Request seconded.
the only time I have ever bought a car was five years ago and I bought it with cash from my buddy Jon who was moving to Paris and I never want to have to buy a car in any other fashion, but someday I will, and I WILL USE THIS.
The fact that you did this without talking to anyone is a goddamn inspiration to ladies like me with severe social anxiety.
“You will drink the blood of the fallen.”-Nicole Cliffe, on negotiating the price of a car
Possible addendum: if you subscribe to the view that the process of buying a car exists in an essentially amoral arena of human experience, where none of the participants except possibly the poor customers are innocents, and in which the normal rules of behavior do not apply…
The advanced version of this is using the invoice information to speed up or enhance the process by, well, lying. Invent a fictional dealer number 3, for example, who has an aggressive style with his price cuts, right up to the rock bottom invoice price. (ETA: or if you can’t find a dealer number 2…)
It’s brokering. I think most people are uncomfortable with it, as I was, until I had to do it for a job (which I quit after a year of stress and important life lessons). Now I know it’s usually ok to play hardball with brokers (or certain types of salespeople), because they are playing hardball with you, and they’ve almost always got an advantage. ETA: seeing this kind of thing pulled on people who don’t know the rules of the game and who in fact may be credulous and naive and have a few stars in their eyes makes me livid. See: the bad kind of literary agent.
That works until the guy you’re talking with says, “Can you forward me the email in which he made that offer?” like the guy we were emailing with said.
I had a lot of fun buying my car. The salesman guy was totally reasonable but the finance guy was a weasely liar and I almost made him cry. My husband was with me to drive our other car back home and I think I scared him a little. Part of my job at the time was having contentious meetings with people who were probably lying to me and negotiating civil settlements (big fines) so I had a lot of practice at that kind of thing. I’m afraid I’ve let those skills atrophy a bit, though.
If you have some concrete specific tips or examples, I would be extremely grateful.
Negotiating on the car was so easy that I don’t really even remember what I did. I just knew the price I wanted and asked for it, basically. But OH! The financing!
Know your credit score, know what kind of interest rate you should qualify for. Read every piece of paperwork. Don’t let them roll anything into the loan other than what’s necessary to buy the car. If the car’s new, you might want gap insurance but you can get that from a third party. If you roll it into the loan, you’ll be paying the premium AND interest, rather than just the premium. Don’t be afraid to walk away and seek financing from your bank rather than the dealer. Don’t be afraid to make them redo the paperwork as many times as necessary if they keep putting extras in there you don’t want.
In my case, the guy initially told me I only qualified for like, a 13% interest rate. I didn’t directly call him a liar then, but I did say “oh, that’s confusing because I checked my credit score this morning and I know that will get me 5% at my bank!” So he miraculously got me that rate, but then kept putting extra crap in my loan that I explicitly told him I didn’t want. After the third go-round, I thanked him for his time and told him I’d just go through my bank. (This was a weekend, so that meant a delay in getting my car until Monday, when the bank opened. I didn’t want to have to wait, but I was willing to). At that point, he followed me out the door and promised no more shady stuff and we finally got it done.
You just have to come prepared and willing to walk out, basically.
(ETA: right after he told me the first interest rate I did laugh out loud at him, so it’s not like I was totally polite. I also told him he was being “either disengenuous or too obtuse to work in finance” when he didn’t get why I didn’t want gap insurance on a used car. It was fun.)
Making salesmen cry. :chapeau:
I bought my car fresh out of college and with like 2 weeks of a Grown-Up Job (that paid less than waitressing would have…sighed), and I brought both my parents. I technically didn’t have a driver’s license, so I couldn’t actually drive the car, just sit in it while my dad drove it around.
But I actually didn’t have to talk to that many people – I used my Costco membership to get connected to dealers offering discounts, picked out cars at the right intersection of price, reliability, and longevity, then talked to maybe 2 dealers before buying it. I paid just above invoice for no money down, 0% interest for the first 5 years, and a doubled warranty from the dealership.
Internet sales departments are a truly great invention. I bought my last car this way and it was so easy! Though with less negotiating, because my dealer 2 just sent “OMG! Call me and we’ll talk about pricing lol!”, so I said “Nope!” and went with dealer 1, whose price was slightly less than the X price. Another fun way to rate dealerships/salespeople is to go in with a man and see if they still talk to/acknowledge you. My salesperson looked me in the eye and kept talking TO ME even though my husband was right there! Sadly, this is a pretty easy way to rule out dealerships.
RIGHT? This is pretty much how we ended up choosing the dealership we dealt with when we bought our last car.
I got to haggle in person with numbers garnered from the internet (Carsdirect.com). I like haggling, thanks to my parents’ insistence on having a child, what with their combined dominant stubborn genes.
hello nicole fellow human person, what if we would like to study our human friends behavior? in a completely human way not alien-like at all? please advice.
Oh man, I bought a new car last year, and I had a really good time doing it. I particularly enjoyed watching dealerships try to “hard sell” me. I’m a lawyer. Their idea of intimidation tactics would have gotten them laughed out of the first round of negotiation competitions in law school.
“If you walk out of here, we will NEVER give you this good of a deal again. Does this change your mind?”
*files nails, smiles blandly* “not really.”
“You will regret this!”
* eye roll*
Also, I did test drive. But I specifically wanted a Sporty Family Sedan, and had Ideas about what I wanted that meant I had to test drive. But if all you’re looking for is a car with bluetooth to drive from Home to Work to Yoga, then by all means, skip it. Most cars drive the same, to be honest.
Actually purchasing my chosen car took about three hours from pulling in to the dealership to leaving with my new car. And I got a free hot dog and a Big Red, so all in all, a good day.
Holy crap! Big Red! You just flashed me directly back to childhood in Ohio. I forgot that existed.
Man, my car buying experience is pretty much the opposite. “You want a test drive? Here’s the keys, come back when you’re ready.” Return to the dealer? “Any questions? No? Ok, that’s cool.” They go so chill you forget to haggle with them.
I’m still in the middle of reading but I just want to pause and say that if there were actual dragon dealerships in the US, I imagine Salt Lake City is exactly where they would be. The power of Joseph Smith compels ye dragons!
This was a fabulous article, especially since physically going to dealerships was THE WORST. They kept talking to my boyfriend, even though I was the one buying and paying for the car.
One more tip, if you are a Costco member, the Costco Auto Program can get you basically invoice price on a certified pre-owned car at certain dealerships. I got my car for what truecar thinks is a “great price” and you don’t have to haggle. You do, however, still need to do the dance of “no, i won’t pay for custom window etching/roof racks/etc”.
Also I love that when you did hand over the phone to A Man he screwed it up. MEN.
I mean I’m sure your husband is great but he can’t transcend the limitations of his sex.
AHhhh I will absolutely be using this the next time I need to buy a car.
I bought my car from a stranger on the internet. It cost <£1000 and financed that strangers holiday to Thailand. Also, she didn’t murder me. A win all round!
The dance also works really well if you know you’re going to need financing . They’ll lance basis points off the interest rate like its a puss-filled boil if you have two of them bidding for your business. Like the invoice price of the car, the interest rate is also governed by the manufacturer (who owns a finance company). They lend the money to the dealer at X% rate the dealer tries to lend that same money to you at X% + as many additional % as possible. The difference between the finance company’s rate and the rate you pay is called “the spread” and the dealer keeps that whoooole thing. That spread is the dealer’s gravy train and itsmade of your gravy. Keep your gravy for yourself.
Many finance company’s have been investigated/sued because they let the dealers go crazy with interest rate mark-ups to the customers’ disadvantage; women, minorities, and veterans in particular, which is illegal, but happens regularly.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/pb/business/economy…
OH, is this a good place for my car dealership story??
My mom bought a new Fiat a couple of years ago, her first brand new car since (I think) the 1970s. She probably used something like Nicole’s method, because my mother is a woman not to be trifled with, and she has never paid retail for anything in her entire life.
Anyway, the dealership was near where my extended family live, about 8 hours from home, so my parents and I were planning to go up there and pick up the car shortly before Christmas that year. But then my ailing grandmother started to ail harder, and the whole family traveled in to say goodbye. We lost her in the super early morning two days before Christmas, and THAT DAY was the only day that my mom could go pick up the car, because the dealership was closing for the holiday. She felt like SUCH A JERK, going to pick up her cute new convertible the day her mom died, but she didn’t know what else to do.
So, we went over to the dealership, and they had a big red bow on the car, and were like OMG MERRY CHRISTMAS YOUR NEW CAR IS SO FETCH! Then after they found out my grandmother had just passed, they were really, really nice and gentle. While my parents were working on the paperwork, one of the Stereotypically Italian Fiat Dealers took me aside and talked to me really earnestly about how I should treasure my parents and spoil them and stuff because they won’t be here forever. It was the most surreal and also sweetest thing to ever happen in a Fiat dealership. I STILL CRY when I think about that guy with his fancy leather shoes and slicked back hair and good advice.
I really really wish I’d read this before I bought my car. Like you, I knew which car I wanted. Unlike you, I went to the dealership to buy it. I probably paid too much.
That being said, it’s a very popular car and the internet advised me that I probably wouldn’t get too much of a discount, because of said popularity. I don’t beat myself up about it too much.
Something else in my observation: whatever you buy, you will regret. Oh, the Dragon is fine, but the Phoenix has more cargo space, and the Wyvern has a little bit better gas mileage. This is a simple fact of car buying, and it is equally true that if you buy the Phoenix, you will regret not having the extra power and roof rack of the Dragon. If you buy the Wyvern, you will regret that the ride isn’t as smooth. You must simply ignore these regrets, they are universal and thus irrelevant.
Wow Nicole this is so great!! I wish I’d had it when I bought my car. Saving it for next time!
Seconding the requests for more artifices on how to be a grown-up.
I really love this typo. I think everyone who pretends to be a grownup is employing a series of artifices.
I did a very similar thing on the advice of my brother.
I emailed about 20 dealerships within 50 miles of where I live (southern CA) and said something to the effect of:
“I am going to buy a car within the next 48 hours. I want this package and these options. I am emailing a bunch of dealers and I will go with the one that gives me the best price – no games. What is your out the door price?”
Asking for the “out the door” price is key. There are all sorts of dealers fees, taxes, etc. that you don’t want to suddenly appear on your invoice.
Some of the dealers did not send me realistic offers, some tried to get me to come in or call, and a few took it seriously. I ended up emailing with the lowest bidder since he was clearly serious and got him down a little lower with the promise that I would not take his offer anywhere else if he could meet my price and I would come in ASAP to sign the paperwork.
So yeah, no emotional energy wasted girding my loins at dealerships.
I also live in southern California and will be buying a car soon-ish – I will remember what you’ve written here and use it. Thank you!
This is like that chess trick where you play two games at once, but actually you’re just copying each move one opponent makes onto the other board, so you’re guaranteed to win at least half the time.
It fills me with a significant amount of glee that you used your Misandrist Blog Dollars to negotiate like a damn boss in an industry that is notably patronizing and predatory towards women. (I guess that doesn’t narrow down industries very much, but the glee still stands.)
TOWANDA!!!!
*bookmarking for future use*
For the love of everything, will you please write one of these for buying a house?
The most satisfying part of this (truly exquisite) article is the explicit recognition of the fact that car dealers are not humans.
Optional Step: bring your ordinarily mild-mannered, soft-spoken mother with to the dealership who, when confronted by sleazy salesmen, turns into a screeching street-smart harpy who responds to every price they quote for the car with variations on the tune “DOES IT COME WITH A BJ FOR THAT PRICE JFC SON”
Make sure that you come into the dealership during the last 45 minutes of business so that by the time you are finally, actively involved in purchasing the car, everyone wants you to go home and they will give the car to you for PRACTICALLY FREE if it means you will take yourself and your lunatic mother who keeps yelling about BJs out of this dealership.
I also live in southern California and will be buying a car soon-ish – I will remember what you've written here and use it. Thank you!
This is an amazing article, I’ve bookmarked it in my “how to RL” folder. Ignorant question from someone who’s never had to buy her own car yet: when people talk about buying a car with cash rather than financing, what exactly does that mean? 1) Are you paying the ENTIRE, often five-digit price in cash all at once? Or just a down payment and the rest in monthly installments? 2) When you say “cash,” you of course mean checks as well, right? People don’t actually carry suitcases of money into dealerships, I am pretty sure…
Cash means cash means cash. Except when it means writing checks. Which the dealers take to the bank and cash.
But yeah, some folks have the liquidity to walk in and pay $20 grand without losing sleep, and walk away with a free and clear title, no banks, no payments. WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE.
I know this is an old thread, but I just came across it. “Cash” sale means you will be arranging your own financing whether it be through a bank, uncle bob, or from your own savings. All these mean the same thing to the dealer: they can’t make money off of you financing through them.
Which brings me to a small topic that is not mentioned here: 0% apr dealer financing. It simply means the dealer is offering you financing through their affiliated bank. Toyota owns their own bank, so do many others. What you give up by using this promotional discount is usually in the form of rebates being offered. Example: Jeep is offering up to $3000 rebate on their Cherokee, but if you use their 0%apr financing, it is reduced to a $1k rebate (do your math and decide if it is better to go with another bank and take that larger rebate.) And never let them know you want to finance until you’ve negotiated the price. You are allowed to go in the back door and get pre-approved for financing without the dealer knowing until you tell them so.
After reading this post, I DID THIS!!!!!!!!!!!! I did this.
When I showed up at the dealership, they fearfully scrambled around to serve me? In and out, 35 minutes, tops. And I didn’t even need A MAN to talk to them on the phone–*everything* via email.
Thank you. This post is the shit. I almost want to buy another car, just for thrills.
YAYYYYYYYY
Me too, me too! Although I faltered halfway through and let my dad talk me into allowing the one dealership that I had visited in person (in order to do a test drive) to try to sell me the car first, and they were total assholes and dicked me around to no end. It was terrible and at one point I cried in the bathroom at the dealership. But finally I was like, fuck you guys, and drove to my first choice email dealership. And that guy sold me the EXACT car we had discussed, at the EXACT price we had agreed on, and I was out the door in less than an hour. Slightly below invoice, 0% financing. And THEN I drove my brand new car all by myself on a cross-country road trip like a BOSS.
This is awesome. I will be using this.
The trick I employed for my used cars was this: a car rental company. I bought an 18 month old Toyota hatchback for $2.5k less than Blue Book. It was spotless, low mileage, and I had a 3 day test drive period.
I previously used the test drive days on another car to deliver it to the dealer for a hard once over. No issues. I just didn’t like that car. Did the same thing with this one, also no issues. Liked the fun little car. Bought it. Never even had to take it back to the office.
The whole transaction is done online. They deliver the fresh, beautiful car to a rental location near you. Go inside and the rental guys hand you the keys. Drive away. Call them 3 days later and say “yes.” Have preapproved money from your own credit union pay for it (do not take their financing). They do the paperwork and mail you a new license plate. Done!
Most awesome no-haggle used car experience ever. Great price. Good car. No pressure. Easy peasy. Would do it again in a heartbeat.
Maybe there is a way to use this *and* play rental sales offices against each other.
I don't get that. Like, maybe this is just me not knowing how to money (or accidentally working for non-profits and dying industries– journalism– since 2004) but if I had to come up with even $2000 cash/check for a down payment…it would take a few weeks, no lie. I mean, yeah, I could raid out my retirement account to almost buy a sweet-ass Tesla car but I'd still need another $20k to cover the deficit.
I'm in the car market right now because my loyal 2002 Ford Focus keeps dying all over the place and I really hope I can use this method successfully. Car buying (my first time!) sets off all my social anxieties like woah.
So I'm trying this method right now as my loyal car gives up the ghost but: the 3 closest Subaru dealers straight up ignored my emails for like, 5 days. We're talking "crickets" level of feedback here. Finally, one of the dealers emailed me yesterday with a quote that's a good $3000 more than my budget. I checked it again and turns out, he's quoting me the price of the next level Subaru, which I DON'T want. In the meantime, I wound up having to go to a dealer in person, almost an hour away, where they could possibly get my desired car from another dealer. Only that guy called tonight and said they're having trouble getting it in so he has to try again tomorrow.
I know it's my fault for waiting this far into 2014 to buy a 2014 model but I'm more annoyed at how the 3 closest dealers are basically ignoring me. I wanted to give you money, people! I was a semi-easy mark because it's my first ever car purchase! Shut up and take my money!
But apparently, they don't want to. I is sad and confuzzled.
Twelve great steps with fun images. Thank you so much, Nicole Cliffeon!
i just used this to negotiate a purchase price which was even lower than truecar.com’s “unusually low price.” i’m picking the car up today.
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU.
i just used this to negotiate a purchase price which was even lower than truecar.com's "unusually low price." i'm picking the car up today.
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU.
I read this like once a month, just FYI.
So useful; thank you! Filing this away for when I have to replace my car *shudder*
Really an interesting post. While reading it, another thing came to my mind is what is someone buys a car without having a test drive? which steps he/she should follow? In that case also knowing what you want, knowing how much you can afford, checking for special financing offers are important. But having a car insurance is more important, as it not only give you the much needed protection to your car, but you can also get assistance whenever you need.
I disagree that you shouldn’t test drive cars before you buy them. You should absolutely go in and test drive, but you should leave your payment method at home so that you can’t be pressured into making a commitment on the spot.