1. Mallory, did you even know what the Army Rangers were before you heard about Capt. Kristen Griest and 1st Lt. Shaye Haver, the first two women to complete the grueling Army Ranger School training?
I did not.
2. Do you have complicated feelings about the role of the American military at home and abroad?
I do.
3. How many times did you have to re-read this article before you realized that finishing Ranger School was not in fact the same thing as becoming an Army Ranger?
Three times, but I didn’t really get it until I read the comments.
4. Were the comments terrible and seemingly left by deeply confused human beings?
They were.
5. Is it weird for you to objectify two women – women you had never heard of before yesterday – who are just doing their jobs?
It is.
6. Will you continue to do so, regardless?
I will, thanks for asking.
[Image via]
The link doesn’t work! And I need it to! I want to read that article and all the confused comments please!
Fixed!!
MY THOUGHTS EXACTLY. Since she got the photo from this article I think it’s a safe bet that it’s the one she’s referring to? The comments are certainly making me worry for the future of humanity…
Except for this person…
“Folks, in an all volunteer Army, you have to grow a wide variety of professional leaders with a wide variety of strengths and skills. Not all men will be strong enough to be graduated as Rangers, neither will all women. But then, not all men will be sharpshooters, intellectual giants, natural born leaders, or even competent soldiers. The point is to give everyone as much of an opportunity to do what they want to do in the Army as everyone else. The military is a calling. Not everyone will be able to be a Ranger, but I can assure you, not everyone wants to be. I have never wanted that kind of privation and exhaustion, but I have been valuable to the Army with my own skills and abilities. If you are just looking for an excuse to put women “in our places,” I guess that this represents your best opportunity in years because you can, and are, talking so much smack while hiding behind your WaPo usernames. But women are not going back to kitchen to be your slaves guys. Get over it and yourselves. And those of you who have never served your country, please shut up. This is none of your business. Really.”
I LOVE YOU
” not all men will be … intellectual giants”
Try telling that to the men, though
This commenter is my hero.
Not just questions (over here, personally) but also imagined back-stories to project on to them.
Once again Mallory has perfectly summed up my confused feminist reaction to the latest news stories, except for
7. Did you immediately go out and research exactly what in the fuck is entailed in finishing Ranger School?
because I sure as hell did and noped the fuck out of there.
“Ranger students conduct about 20 hours of training per day, while consuming two or fewer meals daily totaling about 2,200 calories (9,200 kJ), with an average of 3.5 hours of sleep a day. Students sleep more before a parachute jump for safety considerations. Ranger students typically wear and carry some 65–90 pounds (29–41 kg) of weapons, equipment, and training ammunition while patrolling more than 200 miles (320 km) throughout the course”
i
what
Ranger students conduct about 20 hours of training per day, while consuming two or fewer meals daily totaling about 2,200 calories (9,200 kJ), with an average of 3.5 hours of sleep a day.
i cannot be thankful enough that there are people in this country who willingly subject themselves to such horrible conditions in order to better protect my soft, weak body.
thank you, Rangers! (and all other service peoples. love you all <3 )
You’re welcome.
I HUG YOU NOW?!
(please don’t snap me like a twig.)
Wait, they’re not Rangers? I really need to up my reading comprehension game.
Yeah apparently it has to do with that “no women in combat” bullshit.
It’s not that — many men who complete Ranger School are also not Rangers, but are recipients of the Ranger Tab.
The DOD is currently in the process of reviewing all combat positions for women by 2016. Only organizations that file a petition will be exempt from opening up ALL positions to women, otherwise the default will be all positions for everybody.
Maybe it’s just because I grew up watching Stargate, and so have watched Samantha Carter be a badass in countless combat situations, but the “no women in combat” thing has always struck me as supremely bizarre and stupid.
Even though they completed Ranger school, the 75th Ranger Regiment is still closed to women: http://www.wsj.com/articles/first-female-soldiers…
You have to pass Ranger School. If you do that, and you meet all the other criteria, you apply to 75th Ranger Regiment, and hopefully get accepted. They’re letting women go to Ranger School now, they didn’t used to, bu they haven’t yet amended the thing allowing women into that Regiment, and you’re not technically a Ranger until then.
If you want your head to explode you should definitely read the following from Admiral Eric Olson, former head of the military Special Operations Command, who definitely opened his gob on the issue on Capitol Hill:
“Men, in virtually every society and every species, are reluctant to trust their lives to women in the same way they do to men. They’re less likely to commit women to their death or to capture than they are to commit another man.”
Well. That’s…certainly an opinion.
Um.
I… um. Huh. I sure do have trouble coming up with a reply to that.
I…was not aware my eyebrows could arch that deeply. How interesting, the new things I’m learning about myself today. Thanks, Admiral Ostrich or whatever your name was.
that’s… something. not sure “opinion” is exactly the word i’m looking for.
I heard that yesterday on the radio, and immediately said (out loud, even), “What the fuck do you know about Army Rangers, dude, you’re in the Navy.”
While I generally agree with that, because there is mad stove-piping between the Armed Services, he is the head of the multi-branch Special Operations Command, which oversees Army, Navy, Air Force, and the highly reluctant Marines. So he’s more knowledgeable than a lot of Admirals would be, in that regard. (And really, most officers are required at some point to do some type of cross-branch service during their career, and as an Admiral he definitely would have interactions with other branches.)
Yeah, I know, I just thought what he was saying was sexist bullshit.
Don’t get it twisted — it’s still a remarkable accomplishment. I’m confident I can also do it, but I won’t get my chance for another couple years yet. I look forward to the opportunity with eagerness and dread.
But yeah, there’s an old song that goes “You can tell an Airborne Ranger by his SCROLL, by his SCROLL.”
Scroll referring to the scroll-shaped shoulder patch of the Rangers. Those who earn the Tab (as these two officers did) are referred to as “Ranger Qualified.”
Or as a friend of mine (a Ranger veteran of the Battle of Mogadishu, it turns out) said (paraphrase): “I’ve been to science class, but it doesn’t make me a scientist. Good on ’em, those female officers who made it through Ranger School, but they’re not Rangers yet.”
I suppose if you’re ever in a situation where you’d run into an Army Ranger, one might not care about gender, but rather “Get me the hell out of here!” or “You are in charge, please don’t let me die!”
But still: I would feel extra-safe with a woman Ranger. Thank you for your service, Griest and Haver!
7. Did you start considering, yet again, if you could pull off a buzzcut?
Also, I know a few people who have been to Ranger School and WOW it seems like one of those YA novel-type tests of strength that I always think I could complete in theory, but would fail at horrifically in reality.
A: yes.
Ohhhhh, this news is going in my secret dream journal so I can swoon in my own time, perhaps with some scented candles and smooth jazz.
Also, one of my friends who also went to West Point wrote a Facebook post along the lines of how proud she was of these two plus the 19 other women who tried, and of course the first comment was A Man saying, “but why aren’t you proud of the other men who made it through???”
They always want to make sure they still get their cookies and gold stars, don’t they? As if the entire history of the world has not been replete with cookies and gold stars for them and not for others.
I believe the correct answer to That Man’s question is “Because men are stupid, obviously.”
Wait, so what is the difference between finishing Ranger School and becoming an Army Ranger?
They can’t actually join the 75th Ranger Regiment, it’s still closed to women, but completing Ranger School opens up other opportunities for advancement as an infantry officer in other combat regiments/units. The Army has until January 1st to give Panetta a good reason for keeping some special ops units closed to women, or open them up.
A penis.
Wow, I was really worried about what was going to be behind that link.
Applying and being accepted to the 75th Ranger Regiment. One of the criteria they are currently required to use is “are you male”. One is “have you passed Ranger School”.
(given women can now go to Ranger school, they will probably be updating the “are you male” rule in the not to distant future, but… yeah.)
Minor point of order:
Currently Regiment requires Maleness, aye.
However: Regiment does not require the passage of Ranger School. Regiment has a lot of young men waiting their turn to go to Ranger School so they can become fully Ranger Qualified.
Friend of mine’s a three-deployment Ranger. He’s got the right-shoulder Scroll from 2-75. But no corresponding tab, because he didn’t complete RS on his first go, and didn’t feel like serving another 3 years to get another go at it.
I LOVE THESE WOMEN. Sure, I agree wholeheartedly on #2, but, OOOOOOH THESE WOMEN.
Rachel Maddow did a bit on what happens on the first three days of Ranger School, and, oh my god, you all may want to read the whole thing, But, I mean, if I was going to go to Ranger School I figure that I’d be damn well able to do the right number of push ups and chin ups well ahead of time, because, I mean, if you can’t, why on earth would you even show up, but then there was this—-
“Combat Water Survival Assessment, conducted at Victory Pond (previously called the Water Confidence Test). This test consists of three events that test the Ranger student’s ability to calmly overcome any fear of heights or water. Students must calmly walk across a log suspended thirty-five feet above the pond, then transition to a rope crawl before plunging into the water. Each student must then jump into the pond and ditch their rifle and load-bearing equipment while submerged. Finally, each student climbs a ladder to the top of a seventy-foot tower and traverses down to the water on a pulley attached to a suspended cable, subsequently plunging into the pond. All of these tasks must be performed calmly without any type of safety harness. If a student fails to negotiate an obstacle (through fear, hesitation or by not completing it correctly) he or she is dropped from the course.”
The bit where they “jump into the pond and ditch their rifle and load-bearing equipment”? That’s something like at least 65 pounds worth of stuff. That you have to calmly take off, while underwater. And if you flail, even a little, you are OUT. And that’s generally day ONE.
These women are SO BADASS. Hell, the other 18 who even qualified for Ranger School are also badass.
My dad graduated from Ranger School in the eighties, and his stories are a lot. Not only did he have to do all the craziness detailed above–he also had to live in the wilderness for weeks, kill rabbits and goats for food, and endure really intense sleep deprivation. At one point, someone needed to be airlifted out because of hypothermia. In Ranger School you also get yelled at and mocked 24/7, so that’s nice.* These women are amazing!
*One time my dad got a cut on his head, and needed to wear a big bandage wrapped around his head for the rest of the day. Everyone called him “Ranger Tampon,” and while I fervently hope that the presence of more women in Ranger School will erode the sexist attitudes that give rise to such gendered insults, I also feel that “Ranger Tampon” would be an excellent name for a riot grrrl band.
To this day my dad gets a misty look in his eye talking about the good ole days in the swamps of Georgia eating rabbit and snake. It probably says something about me that every now and then I still kind of want to be part of that club.
And to be fair, the Air Force was full of women, but I can very easily have seen the whole Ranger Tampon thing happening there. I probably would have started it. Insults of any kind are just what you do. The proudest moments of my military career were being called a tough bitch and a sergeant telling another male sergeant that I had a larger dick than him. Both were meant as compliments.
Ugh that’s awesome–you’re awesome! Being a tough bitch is the #1 goal, seriously. I remember Nicole tweeted recently about how even though she could fulfill the physical requirements for Ranger School, she would immediately burst into tears if a harsh word was spoken to her. I read that like YES, because even if I were fit enough, (haaaa) I am a big baby who takes things very personally and cries often. I think it’s awesome when people can not only withstand that pressure, but thrive under it.
Also yay for Ranger dads! I totally know what you mean about the nostalgia. Recently my dad has started talking more about his experiences, and I am always 100% there for the stories, because they are crazy. It’s an awesome club to be a part of, for sure 🙂
Ranger dads are some of the best dads. It took me the longest time to figure out as a child that everyone’s dad didn’t go to work every day and jump out of airplanes or drive tanks or do other variously badass things. And once I did figure that out… boy was I ever smug. I was the smuggest. I insisted he wear his uniform on bring your parents to school and have them talk about their jobs day in second grade. And then sat there smugly while the kids asked him various GI Joe related questions.
My dad went to Ranger School in the late 70s and I had NO IDEA that it was this hard. He has literally never mentioned that it was this brutal, it was just this thing he did the winter before he graduated from West Point. He did mention that you’re basically starving to death the whole time (he’s *so skinny* in his graduation photo), and that it’s better to go in the winter than in the summer because you have your “down backpack” and you can’t make yourself cooler when you’re hot, but that’s it. That was all I knew about Ranger school until now.
This explains why dudes were so scared of my dad in high school, despite the fact that he is very jovial and friendly.
These women are Imperator Furiosa IRL.
I WAS JUST ABOUT TO SAY that they should have “Imperator” added as a title before their name. As should any woman who completes Ranger School. NOPE, DUDES, YOU DO’NT GET TO USE IT.
I had to do the math, because the article talks a couple of times about how these are 2 of 20 qualified, and 17 are out (1 more is still working on it.)
So they’re graduating with 94 men, and their group started with 360 men & 20 women. It may not track exactly, since not all of tomorrow’s male graduates recycled – finished in 2 months instead of 4 – but I’m guessing the training class size is similar in each group. Which means ~75% of men entering the school don’t make it.
If the 3rd woman still training makes it, it’ll mean 15% of women complete the training. Considering this was the first time any were given the chance, it’s not a bad number to stack up against the 25% of men doing the same.
Math is cool. Thanks!
I’ve been wondering if the women in this first opportunity is likely to be better or worse prepared than the next several classes worth of women.
On one hand, it’s the first cycle they’ve been allowed, so you figure the women who have been waiting for years to do it would have been trying to do it as soon as possible. On the other hand, apparently Ranger School in July/August is really really hard (due to heat), so it may be the case that sort of tactically choosing when you want to start the process might help you succeed, so maybe some people chose to start at a different time.
And beyond that stuff, maybe some women knew they weren’t physically ready yet, didn’t have enough time to get there for this class, and are taking the time they need to get there, so they have the best possible shot when they do start.
I think knowing the opportunity exists leads people to live in ways that increase their odds of making it in. When you are growing into yourself & look up to Army Rangers, see that as your ambition & a path you might take, maybe you make it a point to add more chin-ups to your life, do some time in the pool, etc. Same way if you think you can be a college or pro basketball player you’ll spend more time on the driveway shooting hoops in your idle time, because it takes years to build up those muscles and reflexes. The Ranger training is a hell of a lot of work, and your average soldier (/human) isn’t going to go out of his/her way to prep for it unless they have an inkling that it will lead them somewhere, I’m guessing.
(If I was any kind of badass army woman, I still would hedge my bets by letting others go first / do it in fall or winter after my chin-up game is better – but if I was any kind of badass army woman, I might scoff at my non-badass-self’s hesitancy, so what do I know?) (Not how to do a chin-up, that’s for sure.)
I agree with EVERYTHING here. I mean, some of these things are general army things. Push ups, sit ups, 5 mile runs, all of those things are the sorts of things that, well, maybe you need to work a bit extra to get your form perfect, or get them within the right time, but they’re not brand new. But doing stuff while wearing THAT much gear. Map & Compass navigation in the dark. That’s the sort of stuff you just might not get around to practicing if you don’t have an end goal (like the Rangers) that requires it.
I would totally rather wait, not be first, but wait until I thought I was in peak condition before doing it if possible. But I also would rather be too warm than too cold. I’m really really bad in the cold.
(I found this interesting, about how every class has things a bit differently, sometimes it’s just fundamentally easier or harder, and even if it’s easier, it’s incredibly hard.)
I’ve also seen some commentary that certain specialties/roles within the army tend to do better at Ranger School than others, and I believe that some of those roles are still closed to women. But I might be misunderstanding this. Perhaps someone more fluent in Army can chime in?
Your overall math is on point, though. Most people fail, full stop.
7. When you heard that women completed Ranger training, were you picturing female versions of Aragorn?
Genuinely the only things I think of when I hear “rangers” are: 1. dark and mysterious men wandering in the wilderness picking weeds for medicine, and 2. mice solving crimes
I would also say “underappreciated RPG class” but that’s probably covered by your #1.
I’m pretty sure the only reason my father did the whole Ranger School thing and became a ranger was because of his deep-seated want to be Aragorn. To this day when he talks about bits of it he specifically parallels it to bits of LotR. It’s sad and a bit nerdy, but that’s my dad.
(It doesn’t help that he does slightly resemble Viggo Mortensen in a sort of generic guy of norse ancestry with dark hair type way. I have full faith that if I was wounded by a morgul blade he would DEFINITELY know where to find some athelas in the Vermont woods. Ranger School teaches them that sort of thing.)
Mr. Xuligan is both a ranger* and a giant nerd. He loves quoting Aragon (as well as singing cadences at inappropriate times).
*has the tab, but served elsewhere in the infantry.
It is the best life. (Says someone who didn’t know ‘Doo Wa Diddy’ wasn’t a cadence until middle school.)
One of my early pictures is of me as a small baby, pink ribbon bonnet on my bald head and ruffled pink dress on my chubby little body, screaming bloody murder while being held by my father just after completing Ranger School. He hadn’t changed out of his nasty, grubby clothes yet and he looked like hell. He’s not a huge guy and he’s got some pounds to spare, but in the picture his cheekbones and facial structure make him look like Skeletor. He’d lost that much weight. That shit is intense and even infant nohairnoheart was terrified and impressed in equal measure.
I have nothing but respect for those women. I know I couldn’t have done it. There’s a reason I joined the Chair Force.
Was it for the Stargate program? Tell me it was for the Stargate program, I promise you I’ll believe you.
…. If it was for the Stargate program, you probably couldn’t tell me, so if you tell me it definitely wasn’t for the Stargate program, I will ALSO believe that it was for the Stargate program, so, basically, <3 <3 either way.
I can neither confirm nor deny any Stargate involvement during my time in the service.
I KNEW IT.
😀
I have been caught in a fit of giggles since reading your photo description.
(And every one of those Ranger training photos – so very Skeletor)
After he got back there are a series of photos of him stretched full length on the late 80s sofa, surrounded by piles of junk food and with me lying on his chest. My mother said that after a while she had to move me though for fear he’d eat me next once he got through the potato chips.
After listening to his stories of having to catch and eat rattle snakes, I don’t blame him for wanting to eat nothing but nachos and milkshakes for a month.
Yeah, I want to eat nachos & milkshakes for a month basically always, so your dad had good ideas in his Skeletor skull.
My dad has a story about trying to chew tobacco and puking his brains out at Ranger school which is taking on a MUCH darker tone now that I know how few calories everyone subsists on during training.
One of the women who completed the training is an Apache helicopter pilot, and apparently decided that she wasn’t enough of a badass already. <3
finally the international murder machine is making an attempt at becoming more egalitarian
Is International Murder Machine taken as a band name yet? Cause if not I’m dibsing it.
I don’t know what an army ranger is, but they featured in the A-Team film, so something like that I expect. I hope the Cpt. Doesn’t grow her hair out because that look really suits her. The Lt should consider something a bit longer but practical. Something she can still fly a tank with.
I wonder what it would be like to go out with someone knowing they can run home carrying you when you’re too drunk to walk.
This is where we get to talk about GI Jane right? Cause that is my only frame of reference here.
“I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself! A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself.”
Also, I saw G.I. Jane as a young girl, and then again as an adult woman, and upon second viewing, all I could think about was WHAT WAS WITH THE PSYCHOSEXUAL VIOLENCE/TENSION between Demi Moore and Viggo Mortenson in that movie because it was very unsettling to my adult self.
I was also quite young and watched it with my mother. I remember her pointing out how creepy it was that he went from super rapey to the hero of the story. I’m still not ok with that.
Buuuut; Demi Moore doing those upside down sit-up? I AM OK WITH THAT.
Also, Aliens.
I kept tripping over “finishing Ranger School” and reading it as “Ranger Finishing School”.
Ranger Finishing School is the two weeks they do to reacclimate to life outside the hellswamp, or so I’m assuming based on post-field school “okay, everyone needs to remember not to spit wherever they want and that ‘fuck’ is not an all-purpose word Back In The World” convos.
Little known fact, but walking around in the darkness with books on their helmets is an important part of the course and all MREs must be eaten with the proper utensils and table etiquette.
Is anyone else not feeling confusion about this story and just totally “I hate the American military and everything about it and there’s nothing to celebrate and these women are training to better kill my people so it’s really hard to feel anything but y’know…rage”
Anyone?
Don’t worry. I still love you.
Nope. I don’t oversimplify and vilify others whom I know nothing about.
Yeah, I know, I just thought what he was saying was sexist bullshit.
I still am trying to figure out how these two women managed to convince the army to allow them to take a 6 week training school for a job the military wouldn’t let them have. Does the army usually let people train for jobs they are not allowed to hold?
I still am trying to figure out how these two women managed to convince the army to allow them to take a 6 week training school for a job the military wouldn't let them have. Does the army usually let people train for jobs they are not allowed to hold?