Dear Businesslady,
I’m a woman in my late 20s, and am working in the nonprofit sector in an analytical position. I’ve been in my current role for a few months.
I am able to de-personalize feedback, and am not someone who, say, reacts defensively if someone proposes a change to my work or to my process. Over the years I’ve received plenty of constructive feedback that I’ve worked to address in my performance. However, in both my current role and at my last job, I’ve received feedback that’s really specific to my personality, and, to be honest, cuts a little deep. I’m someone who is more introverted and reserved by nature. The issue that’s been shared with me is that I come across as reserved or aloof (but not, say, brusque or rude). I’ve also received the feedback that I can come across as overly formal or uptight in more casual settings at work. I want to be clear that this isn’t an Autism spectrum issue: while I know that I’m socially awkward in some situations, the issue isn’t that I’m unable to read people or social dynamics. At the same time, I’ve consistently received the feedback that I communicate well in writing and in-person, and I know that the words people use to describe me most frequently are “nice” and “sweet.”
I’m having a hard time knowing what to make of this feedback. On one hand, I know that this feedback is coming from somewhere real in how I come off to people, and I’m working on expressing more enthusiasm and friendliness in the short-term. On the other hand, it bums me out that my personality is an issue at work when I treat people with respect and get things done. Even though I’m now in an analytical role, not a sales or relationship-building role, I’m wondering if I should move into something like IT or tech, where there would be more focus on deliverables and less focus on my personality. I know that communication and personal relationships always make a big difference to your effectiveness, and I’m committed to learning and growing in this area, but I’m starting to wonder if my personality type is just incompatible with analytical work in the nonprofit sector.
I’ll also note that I’ve mentioned this feedback to friends in tech, finance, and consulting, and they are always surprised that I’d be getting feedback like this about my personality (because it’s weird feedback to give, not that it isn’t true). Given your experience, do you think that this kind of personality feedback is especially common in the nonprofit sector? Would you recommend making the move to another field where my more reserved nature would be less of an obstacle to overcome? Is this just some weird gender thing???
Dear Feedbacked,
Well for starters, if I were able to accurately adjudicate “Is this just some weird gender thing???” I would be so busy fixing misogyny forever that I wouldn’t have any time for this column. Fortunately for you, that’s not the case, so my answer to that question is: “maybe???”
Feedback is the double-edged sword of the working world: without it, you’re left grasping for clues about your status within your organization, either blithely screwing up without realizing it or letting your anxieties convince you of your worthlessness even as everyone around you is in awe of your productivity—or, to make things even more complicated, some unknowable combination of the two. But it’s important to note how important feedback is, because actually getting it is the worst.
Look: can I give you some feedback?
And now I think I’ve made my point. How many of you tensed up upon reading those words, despite knowing I couldn’t possibly continue with a critique your own individual work in the following paragraph?
So, okay, feedback is a necessary evil. But I’d like to spend a second unpacking why it sucks, because I think that will ultimately prove useful to you (and to the LW after you, who we’ll get to in a bit).
Some of the reasons that feedback is so unpleasant are pretty obvious: no one likes to be criticized, learning you’ve been doing something wrong is embarrassing, and in a work context there’s often an implied “…fix it or you’re fired” that taps into very legitimate concerns about livelihood and self-sufficiency. But I think those are actually secondary, and that people really dread feedback because they fear being told “you—as a person—are somehow wrong in a way that can never be fixed.” Feedback often ends up giving voice to all the insecurities we harbor within us, and often aligns with shortcomings we’ve been working on our entire lives. (And of course, it can also be misguided, sexist, racist, unnecessary, unkind, or impractical—or even all of those things sometimes—so I’m not trying to suggest it should be taken without any salt grains whatsoever.)
So whenever I receive negative feedback, I ask myself a few questions, which I recommend to anyone who finds it similarly unnerving: Do I understand where this person is coming from? What could I do to mitigate the issue they’ve identified? And, ultimately, do I actually want to put effort into changing?
You don’t necessarily have to understand the feedback-giver’s perspective in order to respond to it—although it certainly helps psychologically. And only you can answer the last question. But let’s tackle the second, focusing on your specific situation.
Here are the facts: You’re still fairly new to your office, you have plenty of friends who don’t find you aloof at all, and there’s a certain weird-and-possibly-gendered element to being told, essentially, “be friendlier.” Taking the last part first, it’s absolutely true that women are often held to a higher standard of workplace cheeriness than men are (this double standard brought to you by the same culture that constantly commands us to smile!). If you suspect that’s what’s at issue here, then I can’t blame you for rankling at this bit of instruction, and if you want to double down on your office-ice-queen status as an act of rebellion, I will not attempt to dissuade you. In fact, in that case it might not be a bad idea to push back a bit, citing other (male) colleagues’ behavior as evidence that you’re not being treated with parity.
I hope for your sake, though, that you’re dealing with something less sinister than institutionalized sexism. My take is that you’re new, you’re trying to be professional, you’re a little on the reserved side, and all of these factors have coalesced into a self-presentation that’s giving people the wrong impression of you. (Shy people have been inaccurately labeled as assholes since time immemorial, so you’re neither the first nor the last person to have this problem.) But since you’ve heard a variation on this theme before, it’s landing a little more painfully than it was probably intended to.
You could just ignore the feedback entirely and see if it subsides as people get to know you better—or you could try to actively combat it, going out of your way to join water-cooler-type conversations, make small talk, and so on. If you do go this route, make sure you let your boss know, “Hey, I’m trying to work on how I come across in the office and seem more approachable. Can you let me know if you think it’s working?”
I know your friends find this whole thing weird, but assuming it’s not being generated by an antiquated Universal Theory of Female Niceness, I can’t really fault a manager for trying to promote a certain kind of warm atmosphere. It’s also not something that’s entirely unique to the nonprofit world (some nonprofits are run as dour bureaucracies; some for-profits are incredibly tight-knit), although a strong sense of “community” is something many nonprofits strive for.
As for shifting careers in response to this, I think that’s a bit extreme. Now, if you’re repelled by the idea of forcing yourself to be more social in the office, and/or this feedback persists even as you’ve taken steps to address it, then maybe you might consider a move to something more isolated. For now, though, I’d try to buddy up with your coworkers and see how things feel once you’ve been there a little while longer.
And while we’re on the subject of feedback…
*
Dear Businesslady,
How do I provide feedback that a coworker’s feedback is condescending in a way that doesn’t make me sound as though I’m ignoring the actual message or am automatically going on the defensive?
Background:
I work in customer IT support, and we generally work long-term as point people for a specific customer, although customer assignments sometimes change. I’ve recently started working with a new customer. When drawing up a support ticket, I added a coworker who has been assigned to that customer for longer than me, but who has been with the company a few years less than I have (and I haven’t previously interacted with him). I added him because I had a question for him, which usually generates an automatic email.
He didn’t answer within a few weeks and my customer asked about it, so I gave him a call and left him a message asking for an update.
He called me back, provided an answer, and then asked that I make sure to notify him next time. I apologized and said that I would be sure to confirm the automatic email generation was on. He told me that no, it was on, but the correct process is for me to call or email him and not just add him–it’s a major problem that our division leadership has brought to our attention as bad practice. He then repeated it again at the end of the (10 or so minute) call, in a tone that seemed to indicate that I should have known this. I didn’t say anything at the time, since a. this is the first I’ve ever heard of this recommendation (I actually prefer to just be notified by this email) and b. I’ve never had a coworker talk down to me like that.
He immediately followed up with an email again going through the exact steps of this process and offering to meet with me if I didn’t understand it, which I am ashamed to say I deleted right away because I was so frustrated with him treating me like an idiot.
When I’d cooled down, I did some research. There is one mention of the process that he talked about on our company intranet–it was written only a few months ago, by someone specifically in his department. I then went back to check our division-wide meeting powerpoints since that entry. No mention. So he’s not necessarily wrong: this does seem to be a process, but one that hasn’t been communicated outside his department, and there is really no excuse for being so patronizing.
While I don’t agree with this process I can see why someone might want to implement it and also that he could feel put on the spot with the customer because I didn’t follow it. Anyway, how do I make it clear that he may have a point, but he was extremely unpleasant and a poster boy for mansplaining without sounding like I’m just trying to deflect criticism?
– The IT Girl
Dear IT,
You can probably guess why I paired your two letters. You’ve described a situation I think we’ve all been in, and one we can all agree is just awful. Say nothing, and you’re letting obnoxious jerk behavior win the day. Speak up, and you risk being dismissed as defensive or overly sensitive—which in addition to being maddening, could have repercussions in terms of how you’re perceived in your organization.
I can’t speak for you, and certainly not for All Women, but I often go out of my way to avoid making the people around me uncomfortable even when it’s working against my own interests—and I know that I am not alone, and that gender socialization has something to do with this behavior. It is a habit I’ve been trying to break for years, and I’ve gotten better, but the instinct is still there. Against all reason, some part my brain thinks “if you could just make sure everyone likes you, everything else will surely fall into place.” And while there are a zillion reasons why this is a bad and impractical policy, the biggest problem is that it just doesn’t work.
Does that have anything to do with you? Not exactly, but I wanted to provide some background on where my answer is coming from. It’s been a while since I’ve had to deal with a situation like this, and I’d like to say I’d be a badass about it now, but I know there’s a version of me who would opt for never, ever mentioning it due to an inordinate phobia of feather-ruffling. Instead, I’d just quietly seethe whenever I thought about it—anger that I’d pretend was directed at him, but which would be really be directed inward at my own spinelessness.
So there’s that. If we’re talking about feedback, I might as well be upfront about my own shortcomings, right? Sticking up for yourself is rarely easy, and it’s tempting to opt for the path of least resistance even when you know it’s likely to make things worse.
What I think you should do, and what would actually have a chance at being effective, is to have a frank talk with this guy face-to-face. Not a “confrontation” per se; more like, “Hey, I gotta say, I was really taken aback by the way you handled this whole support-ticket thing. I realize that I wasn’t following the protocols you use, and making things harder on you as a result, and I’m sorry about that. But in my defense, that information wasn’t on my radar until you brought it up, and I felt your response was ruder than it needed to be.” You do this face-to-face so that you can keep a measured tone, so that he can see your face, and so that he’s compelled to respond verbally and in the moment.
If he apologizes, great. If he apologizes but pulls the same thing again, then at least you have a precedent to refer to when you call him out the next time. And if he reacts in any other way—by arguing with you, disputing your version of events, implying you’re overreacting—then you say something like “I’m not interested in debating this; I just thought you’d want to know how you’re coming across to your coworkers. I hope we can work together smoothly in the future!” And then walk away. With any luck, you’ll have prompted him to question whether he was indeed being patronizing—and either way, you can safely deposit him your mental file of Assholes Who Can’t Be Reasoned With.
If there’s a theme in these letters, it’s that feedback is on a spectrum between truly well-intentioned advice and bullshit that should not be countenanced (with all kinds of variation in between). It’s not always easy to tell the difference, but if your oh-hell-no senses are tingling, do right by yourself and speak up. And on the other hand, if you suspect that there’s some truth to what you’re hearing, take a moment to lick your wounds before commencing the necessary steps toward self-improvement. I certainly hope that this IT dude has the capacity to learn the error of his ways, and I will leave you with that heartwarming possibility as we close out 2015.
Regarding Businesslady’s point about going out of your way to make people comfortable… I was never really one for that anyway, but I have actively tried to stamp it out in myself – as Businesslady says, it doesn’t actually help most of the time. I always judge my behaviour, and what I think is appropriate, by how the men around me act, and I try to respond in the same way/on the same level as them – though not where they’re being arseholes, obvs. The result? People say I have ‘a natural air of authority’. Just an observation.
Yeah as I was reading that I thought ‘I don’t care if people are comfortable or like me, I care that they do their job and the project gets finished.’ (I’m a producer, a large part of my job is annoying other people until they do their job, so being like-able isn’t really a requirement.)
I’ve also been trying to use ‘what would a man do’ as a bit of a bench mark for myself when I’m feeling anxious about my actions or how I’m behaving; If I walk out of a meeting thinking ‘I probably talked too much in there’, I think ‘would a man be worrying about this?’ the answer is usually no. (This is the first thing that popped into my head, its usually more about demanding a raise or better treatment or people to actually do their bloody jobs.)
My result? I’ve already been branded a ball-buster. (I’m still coming to terms with how I feel about this. I told my mum and she got properly pissed off about it, but when it was said it was in a joking ‘Selma’s going to run the world one day’ way.)
TL:DR don’t care about other people’s comfort levels, just do your thing and people will get on board.
I also love how pretty Miranda is and would like to receive feedback from her immediately.
Miranda and Tammy One from Parks & Rec are my imaginary mean guardian angels.
I’m pretty sure I work with the coworker in letter #2 (not really, they’re just DISTURBINGLY prevalent in IT). From a practical standpoint I agree 100% with Businesslady. From a non-practical standpoint…
Voodoo dolls. Really excellent investments for any reasonable person working in technology.
I wonder how many times you can go back and forth with feedback about feedback about feedback until all collapses into chaos and nothingness
Ugh. Just yesterday a guy in the next department came over and was super condescending to me. He clearly came over to just talk AT me until I said ‘ok’ to what he wanted; he didn’t let me talk at all. As soon as I submitted and said ‘ok’, he walked away. He said ‘upload those photos I sent to you’ and I tried to explain that some were the wrong photos, but couldn’t get a word in. When I tried to explain, with examples, that they were the wrong photos, he interrupted to say ‘Trust me. I’ve been doing this a long time. Don’t even look at the photos. Just upload them’. Great work advice, guy!
I’m a temp, so not in a position to ruffle feathers, nor inclined to care in a few months’ time. But my coworker said she overheard and felt super uncomfortable about the whole conversation. She talked to him about the photos, he listened to her, and now knows some of the photos were wrong. I kind of think he should apologize, but this is not a hill I’m going to die on. So I’m letting it go. After this rant! But…why can’t people just talk to each other like humans? And why on earth would you tell someone at any company to not bother checking if something’s correct, to just do what you say?
ughhhhh, that’s awful. Sympathies from a former temp! I really, really hope he apologizes to you, but I wouldn’t hold my breath
The non-profits I have worked at (2 of them) were both VERY BIG on policing behavior/cheerfulness. My boss at the second one had someone give us a professional development speech about never answering “How are you?” with “fine” – suggested alternatives were “marvelous!”, “excellent!”, “wonderful!”, and “fantastic!”.
Now I work in tech at a private company (my second in this industry) and no one has ever given me similar feedback. In fact, I kind of had to unlearn over-the-top enthusiasm, because my coworkers were often taken aback by my hearty cheerfulness.
So, I don’t think that should be the ONLY reason you switch industries, but it worked for me!
“How are you?” with “fine” – suggested alternatives were “marvelous!”, “excellent!”, “wonderful!”, and “fantastic!”.
This sounds like a special version of my own personal hell
I mean, we all begrudgingly adopted it (because paychecks), but everyone did it in a REALLY saccharine manner that dripped with sarcasm, with raised eyebrows that said “oh my god I’m so deeply unhappy working here!”. Which I’m guessing was not the intended goal…
This wasn’t even client facing (I mean, we also dealt with people outside the organization); it was how they wanted us to *talk to our coworkers*. They had major issues with turnover and unhappy staff, and apparently though that was an appropriate way of addressing those issues.
The real common thread in the two first places I worked was probably not that they were nonprofits, but that they both hired almost exclusively young recent graduates, gave them unmanageable workloads in the name of a cause for terrible pay, and then would repeat once everyone burned out.
I like how you all turned this directive into a team-building exercise…even if it wasn’t quite the one your management wanted.
I love how, rather than fixing the issues that made you unhappy, they just made you….fake being happy. UGH.
At some point in the past year of personal heartbreak and professional uncertainty* I decided to answer the superficial/polite “How are you?” with hyperbole in inverse proportion to how things actually were. It’s handy when one is not only an introvert but also a stiff-upper-lip type and suspicious of others’ reliance on pathos. Plus they say that acting happy can make you feel happier, so . . . “Spectacular, how are you?”
*N.B. My life is beautiful and satisfying and absolutely not a nonstop vale of tears, but I have had to Deal With Some Stuff this year. Roll on 2016!
I had a receptionist job with a shit organization a long while back and my friend, who lived down the street from the office, would occasionally call to invite me to get lunch. She told me once that she could tell what kind of day I was having by how happy I answered the phone. The day I positively sang out, “Gooooooood afternoooooon, Crappy Organizaaaaation! How may I help you?” was the day she suggested I quit and take a different job.
What’s funny to me–is that my natural state is enthusiastic. I’m really extroverted and thrive on interaction (up to a point), and so when work is really busy (I’m a concierge/receptionist at a large retirement home), and people ask how I am, I…..actually answer that way. “I’m great/wonderful/fantastic, you?”
But I know damn well that’s not natural for everyone. Several of my coworkers are very good at their job, courteous and efficient, but aren’t really smile-y and bouncy the way I am. And that’s perfectly fine.
I once got feedback from a former manager that I was quiet and reserved in the office. I asked what his point was, he said he had none, I gave him a Hard Stare and we both pretended it hadn’t happened.
Excellent work!
Brilliant!
You are my hero.
THANK YOU. As a person whose personality is very close to how LW1 describes herself, and who has likewise been dinged about it at work, my thought is just a resounding “AND?” Why should we all have to be Stepford Wives? If I’m doing my job properly and not being rude, why am I not allowed to have my natural personality?
I’d be interested in how the feedback on the first letter writer’s personality was shared with her. Was it from a specific person/people about specific occurrences of said aloofness? Because anything else would be pretty useless and just paranoia-inducing, right? And you wish that if someone had an issue with how you were coming across they would just, like, tell you like a person, right?
In a job I once had we had these nightmare periodic “360 reviews”, where everyone on the team + supervisors provided anonymous comments on one another’s various aspects of performance and personality. We would just get these Kafka-esque reports. Stuff came up about my personality that hadn’t been brought up my colleagues in person, and I had no way of knowing who said it, so I could clarify the situation with them, or what situation they were even referencing. All I was left with was that some people thought I was “overly assertive” sometimes. What was I supposed to do with that??? It was maddening.
That’s how I’ve gotten feedback in all of my law firm jobs: “Your average writing evaluations are very good, but someone once thought you did a terrible job on something and we’re not going to tell you who, what, when, or how to improve. We just wanted you to know.”
I’ve had it both ways at firms: one was all anonymous and one was “and THIS partner said…and THIS partner said…”. I cannot tell you how much I prefer the former; it’s close to impossible to maintain professional demeanor when you have bumped up against a partner on a project, explained your side in the eval, but know in excruciating detail how much that partner hates you going forward.
My evals at my firm are always: “things (meaning how much money I bring in) look good, keep it up (and by up we mean even more money). Oh, and, don’t be overconfident!”
Great, thanks, very helpful.
Oh, first letter writer, your feedback is absolutely gendered and you should feel free to ignore it. Besides, being in your twenties now, you will be surprised how quickly “aloof” turns into “respected/authoritative” after you hit your thirties.
(It also smacks of that … thing… that happens when you’re supposed to get feedback, but the person giving it doesn’t really have anything constructive to say regarding work product, so it ends up being personality critiques made up on the spot.)
Besides, being in your twenties now, you will be surprised how quickly “aloof” turns into “respected/authoritative” after you hit your thirties.
Yup.
I make it a point to avoid crossing personal lines at work, and it reads as being aloof and/or cold. The first time one of my friends saw me in a work environment and later said I was scary as hell was something of a surprise (I just figure I’m polite and cordial, but apparently that reads as “intimidating, especially for a 33-year-old woman” which, okay!).
I have a very similar divide, and I was pretty rigid with it when I was interning (I was really conscious that I was a young, Irish, girl, there’s unintended reputations that can be gotten quickly that I really wanted to avoid.). I’ve relaxed a bit because I’ve been at this current job awhile, but I know full-well that everyone I work with thinks I hate people.
I really don’t get why everyone has to be best friends at work!
lolllll I was telling my dude about how proud I was that I was not scared away by the loud group of 19-21 dudes by the squat rack at the gym and just went and did my thing and he was like “oh listen, you are a 19-21 year old dude’s worst nightmare as a professional 31 year old lady. You are unshamable, still desirable, and scary. Plus you were squatting good weight, so they were likely terrified.”
YAS
This is soso great.
“unshamable, still desirable, and scary”
^^ all I have ever aspired to tbh
See, I don’t think it is necessarily gendered (and I’m usually pretty sensitive about that). I think “aloofness” means “unapproachable” and that can be a problem in a lot of kinds of positions, in a lot of sectors. If people think you’re sweet & kind but aren’t comfortable coming to you with questions (or opportunities), that’s not going to help you or them. I don’t think I’ve seen aloofness/unapproachability blossom into respect very often.
Anyway, here’s my two cents: LW 1 may not need to change your behavior much or at all! Some people are just more formal/reserved – and that includes me, sometimes. So, if I’m comfortable enough in an environment, I’ll share that with a few people that I trust. That way, they don’t misinterpret my awkwardness and their better vibes have a ripple effect. Or you can try to find a different way to connect with people to balance things out?
Here’s my favorite way to take in feedback. It mostly disarms hostility and forces the person to actually think about why they are giving you that feedback. (We actually teach this to people as part of my job!)
If they say, “You come across as aloof and unfriendly.”
You repeat it back to them so they hear it: “Oh, you think I come across as aloof and unfriendly!”
Then you ask for clarification or examples: “Can you give me an example of what you’re talking about? I want to make sure I’m getting you.”
Then they have to tell you, specifically, what they mean, or you watch them struggle to come up with an example because there isn’t one.
Then you say, “Okay, thanks for letting me know, that was helpful feedback. I’m going to have to think about that.” DON’T apologize or give an excuse or anything, just walk away.
Then later, like after a few hours or the next day, come back to them and tell them your followup. If you do it in the moment you come across as defensive. Say something like “I’ve thought a lot about what you said and I’m going to do X. Thanks!”
The end. This method puts the onus on the feedback-giver to be specific and clear and not give you made-up bullshit, and shows that you are mature and think hard and want to improve. It totally works.
This is a lot like my favorite approach to dealing with inappropriate jokes, at least the question for clarification and watching them struggle part.
LW#1, is this personality feedback related to specific instances? If not, if it’s more of a general “we’d like you to be friendlier” (argh) then next time it comes up consider asking for such feedback to be specific. As in “I appreciate your remarks but would find it more helpful if you took me aside after X meeting, when the details are fresh in my mind”.
If the concerned person cannot come up with specifics, then it does read to me as a weird gender thing. Like you, I am a woman who tends to be reserved and introverted, especially in the workplace. In some places I’ve worked, where there was a fair bit of personal discussion happening – mainly among the women – I have received the same sort of “be friendlier” feedback. I am friendly, I’m just not into sharing my personal life, and that’s not going to change.
Based on my personality, my quirks, etc, I could very easily be seen as aloof or hard to work with or (or or or or).
And there are certain things that will never, ever change about me. I’m not going to go out drinking with my colleagues more often than twice a year (and even then it’s “grin and bear it” time). I’m never going to join the softball or kickball league. You know the sign on Morwen’s door, that says “None of this nonsense, please”? That’s me.
But I like having a job, I like my coworkers liking and respecting me. I like people thinking I’m a team player, and I like doing all of these things without trampling my own personality/boundaries. Here has been my approach:
I have read a number of books about making people like/listen to you. Favorites include Influence (Cialdini), How To Win Friends And Influence People, and Crucial Conversations. And, basically, I found a list of things that I can do that make my coworkers like me that I feel comfortable with doing. I keep a supply of a number of things in my desk- chocolate, plastic utensils, and extra computer parts (ethernet cables and mice, mostly). I keep a stock of post its and pens so no one has to go find the administrative assistant and ask her. I do certain emotional work related things that I don’t mind– group gifts/cards, distributing the mail, etc. I do small favors for people. I ask for small favors from people. I connect people with other people who might help them. I recognize people for good work in official and unofficial ways. (I mention that Alice is great at XXX when asked, I nominate Bob for a departmental award, etc).
And because I’ve chosen the “soft skills” things that I don’t hate, I have manged to learn to be good at them, and have those things stick out to my coworkers when they think about me. That allows them to more easily ignore that I am mostly useless and grumpy for the first hour I’m at work.
And, before we all assume that I’m actually less prickley than I’m making myself out to be, and that I’d be well regarded without all this work (possible. not likely , but possible)—- I basically took a coworker/friend with some of the same personality quirks as me, who was getting negative reviews from people who didn’t see her as a team player, discussed my approach, gave her a few very specific suggestions (ask Z for help on project Y, even though you probably don’t need it. find a way to do a favor for M)— and a couple months later, she’s getting feedback that people think she’s a better team player.
This is great advice and is a much better articulated plan than what I was going to say. A similar approach worked for me as well as, oddly enough, using more exclamation points in my emails to coworkers. (Thanks! Really appreciate it! Will do! etc.) If you aren’t a exclamation point person it feels super forced at first, but it seems to give the impression that I am enthusiastic and engaged without much effort (or actual cheerfulness) on my part.
a++++++ patricia wrede reference
I forgot about that sign, considering making one for my office. Love those books.
My daughter has had iterations of that sign on her bedroom door since she was 5 – the first one I had to letter for her, and she painted the letters black with gold edging, the subsequent two she made on her own. Plus and also her college essay is about how she imprinted on Cimorene and spent her school years training to be a dragon’s princess (Latin, fencing, archery, chain-mail production and calligraphy. If she could learn spells she would, instead she’s really taken with chemistry.)
I’ve taken a similar approach, and similar specific examples. It’s worked a treat for me. My only regret is not getting this shit figured out in my 20s, and working it out via the school of hard knocks over the last 20 years.
So this is a little related, as I received some “feedback” from my boss today that I just…it is both unbelievably terrible and also funny because it has to do with something I said about the book Ender’s Game. At lunch with my boss and most of my co-workers we were talking about authors and books we have various issues with. I casually mentioned my dislike of authors who write characters that are clearly smarter then them – for example OSC and the Ender series. My boss replied that he liked the books, and found them delightful. Fine, he can do that, it’s a free country. I did mention that the books were a little racists and sexist, and that perhaps made me biased towards the narrative. My boss got visibly upset and told me that I am always thinking too much about “that stuff”. He left, and we all laughed.
Telling men Ender’s Game is the worst is the best.
LW1, I wonder if the feedback that you seem overly formal or reserved is a stand-alone statement or a recommendation to be more casual or warm. I think sometimes people make stray observations like that because they are looking for something constructive to say and think you should be alert to the potential consequences but don’t necessarily need you to change. Like, would it be ok to just be like “yup, I’m reserved. That’s true. Some situations call for more exuberance and I will work on summoning it when I need to,” and move on?
If it makes anyone feel any better, you can be the opposite of reserved and still get personality feedback about it. (“You’ve never said or done anything unprofessional, but your face always shows when you’re excited or irritated, etc.”)
…
One time I was in a meeting with my boss’s boss. She said something incredibly stupid/ignorant about one of our department’s core functions, and I actually turned my chair and looked at her. She called me to her office later, and said to me that she now understood what her husband called her “you are so stupid look,” and that I had best never show it to her again. So, protip: don’t do that.
I have a ‘you’re a moron’ look which I have to stop using at work.
But it’s hard work training myself to catch it before it happens. Also made more difficult by some of the morons I have to work with.
I had a friend come up to me quite anxiously to tell me that during a meeting whenever a certain person would speak i would have the ‘you’re a moron’ look. Best feedback I’ve ever received. He was so scared to tell me but knew he had to because the person I thought was a moron was the bosses fav and outwardly loathing her was not a wise career move.
I think my favorite thing about my current team is that we all agree that everyone we work with (clients and co-workers) are colossal idiots.
I have to put on the nice face when talking to clients, but at least I can let loose and talk about what an idiot they are to my boss. Or if I get in a disagreement with a co-worker, usually an account manager who has promised something stupid to the client that we can’t deliver and I’ve given them a talking to and sent them back to the client to explain their mistake, my bosses are on my side.
I also wonder if the word “aloof” is being used to soften feedback about being difficult to approach? Aloof or reserved, in and of themselves, are not a problem; but if coworkers or clients are hesitant to approach you, or feel snubbed when they do, that might be an actual problem.
(With the added caveat of, yes, this snubbed feeling is tolerated much more when it comes from men, which is bullplops, but this is our world today right now, so…)
I am LW1! That is a totally fair guess and something to think about, but I don’t think that’s what’s happening here. I definitely don’t come off as brusque or rude, and I’m on the opposite end of the personality spectrum from Miranda – not a snubber or intimidating person.
That’s good to hear! And besides, if someone is using a softening word when delivery feedback, any resulting confusion is on them anyway. Keep on with your bad-ass reserved self.
As a 22 year old restaurant hostess at a trying-very-hard-to-be-fancy restaurant I once received feedback from my late-20’s dude manager that I should wear heels like the other girls. Since I walked to work and walked around work and basically spent my whole life on my feet in my (black, perfectly work-appropriate) shoes, my response was, “No.” He backed down right away. It was glorious.
at 18, I quit a job at a restaurant/bar in my college town because the owner informed another waitress and myself that we needed to be “you know, hotter at work” – more makeup, fancier hair, shorter shorts. He explicitly told the other waitress that her sports bras under her work TSHIRT were unacceptable, because “our patrons don’t want a uniboob.”
wellllll peace out. Me and my minimal makeup and neat but not teased hair will see myself out.
I’m going to offer a mild defense of the coworker in #2. I am friends with “that guy” in my office. In our office “that guy” happens to be a woman. Most of her job is making sure that people follow our official protocols and are aware when they change.
She ends up presenting changes in face-to-face staff meetings, sending an overview email after the meeting, and offering in the email to do one-on-one coaching at the person’s desk if needed. And I’m sure that if you aren’t friends with her this comes across as condescending overkill.
But you know why she does that? Becausethe peer feedback that she has gotten says that most people in our office have one preferred method and hate the others… but we’re all different. So she does all three every time to ensure that everyone gets the message at least once in a way that they’ll take on board.
I *feel* LW1 so much! In a former workplace, I always felt a little inadequate & very intimidated by the environment. As result, I was very, very shy. I spent a lot of time listening, and found out that my interests were just on another planet than most of my coworkers, and certainly people in power, which made chitchat even harder. I always choked why I tried to speak up in meetings. But slowly, in one-on-ones, I got to know some coworkers. Water-cooler chat because chatting in each other’s offices, became invitations to group happy hours, became dinners with the people I really did like, became being able to speak [more] comfortably in meetings. After a few years, I’d genuinely made lasting business relationships. BUT, I know that my position in the company was irrevocably damaged because of my initial shyness. There isn’t another way to put it. That being said, I learned from my mistake, and at my next job, I have been very intentional about how I present in meetings FIRST. Communicating my own enthusiasm about my own work gets everyone else on board. I leaned to be my own advocate. Second, I started to start making better colleague relationships. It’s not natural to me, because I’m very content to work in my own bubble, but it’s proved to be a really valuable skill.
I work in a role where I do actually have to be like, nice and shit — not “it’d be easier for everyone else if you were nicer” but “you actually can’t do your job unless you get along with people and make them feel comfortable.” So I have good news and bad news! The good news is, this is a skill you can learn (if you choose to do so), just like you can learn to do all sorts of wacky stuff in Excel. The bad news is, you will never, ever, ever be recognized for picking up this skill the way you would be for learning a new piece of software (or whatever’s applicable in your line of work.) Six of one, you know?
It’s absolutely a skill you can learn – I picked it up working on a helpdesk, which also cured me of my ‘talking on the phone’ fear. Basically, if it is Your Job to be pleasant and helpful regardless of how you are actually feeling, you learn how to fake that pretty quickly.
I will say, working in tech has helped – a lot of the devs respond well to a woman who is friendly but also cracks the whip as required.
Oh lord, the worst feedback I ever got was at my very first job out of college, nine years ago. My entire name is nine letters long and it’s all spelled phonetically. My first name is Hebrew (my family is Israeli) and it’s unusual even in Israel, so you can imagine how common it is in the US, especially in The South.
So. Part of my job duties at this place were to help answer the phones. A lot of other people did this, so I got maybe 15% of the calls that weren’t directly related to me. At my three-month review, the company owner told me he couldn’t give me a raise because people calling in found my name too difficult to understand. Literally. This happened NINE YEARS AGO (almost to the week) and I still remember him saying, “Our customers can’t figure out your name when they talk to you on the phone.” Thankfully he had the good sense not to recommend I use a different name, because that would have probably ended badly for him.
If I had the experience of LW2 I probably would have forwarded the email to my boss with a note to ask if this was a process that was meant to be rolled out across all departments. The logic there is that either LW2’s boss should have communicated it (and would be prompted to confirm it and make sure others on the team knew about it) or it doesn’t apply to her department and her boss could tell her. In the latter case, you better bet I’d be forwarding that back to the coworker with an extremely helpful note attached.
LW I have gotten that same feedback and it suuuuuucks. (I do actually have social anxiety and am extremely introverted and maybe I’m on the spectrum but it’s not diagnosed or anything, but it means I am very, very reserved and also tend to be a bit formal on the phone and stuff. It is a lot of effort for me to keep the pleasant face going all day but I do it. Although I was told this a couple of months after being told I was being too INFORMAL, so who the heck knows?) But it’s still a horrible thing to have to hear, because really no matter how you say it, it sounds like, “Nobody likes you.”
Oh, god, this was so amazing to read this week. Thank you. I am on my clinical year of doctor school, which means every two weeks I switch between specialties and am given written feedback. The next time I get an eval four weeks after I finish a rotation that dings me for some interpersonal thing that I don’t even remember doing, or was a one-time stupid mistake that I would have acknowledged had anyone asked me about it, I am going to cry. I was internalizing all that stuff so hard, and it’s nice to hear that maybe the process is flawed, or people are just being dicks.
I have a 'you're a moron' look which I have to stop using at work.
But it's hard work training myself to catch it before it happens. Also made more difficult by some of the morons I have to work with.
I had a friend come up to me quite anxiously to tell me that during a meeting whenever a certain person would speak i would have the 'you're a moron' look. Best feedback I've ever received. He was so scared to tell me but knew he had to because the person I thought was a moron was the bosses fav and outwardly loathing her was not a wise career move.
I think my favorite thing about my current team is that we all agree that everyone we work with (clients and co-workers) are colossal idiots.
I have to put on the nice face when talking to clients, but at least I can let loose and talk about what an idiot they are to my boss. Or if I get in a disagreement with a co-worker, usually an account manager who has promised something stupid to the client that we can't deliver and I've given them a talking to and sent them back to the client to explain their mistake, my bosses are on my side.
Yes, this. Completely. At every turn I have been so anxious about appearance and looking the "right" way for each job, and I know it shouldn't matter but I also just always assume that it will even though I can't necessarily prove it. That makes me so depressed. Even companies that stress really super things about their hiring policies that should fill me with confidence make me nervous.
So I just want to say that you are correct and it isn't fair that things are like this and also that I wish you the most heartfelt and very best of luck because I know how awful all of this feels.
“I’m not interested in debating this; I just thought you’d want to know how you’re coming across to your coworkers. I hope we can work together smoothly in the future!”
I may have actually swooned a little. This is SUCH a good line and I am going to inscribe it upon my heart and remember it forever.
Olivia & Jago, I just have to mention this. I stopped wearing makeup about 2 years ago (because I'm lazy and I see it as a chore), then I chopped my hair into a nice bob (again, lazy) and then was in a position to look for a new job. I'm a software programmer, so I don't need to be all that good-looking, but it's also a male-dominated (tho less & less over time) field. So I spent a little time wondering if I should practice applying makeup again for job interviews and ultimately decided – nah. So I went on several interviews, making sure to dress professionally, maybe some conservative earrings, no makeup. I got several offers I turned down and finally found a job I wanted and accepted the offer. While nobody has said this (how could they?) I honestly think my no-makeup presentation was perceived as being confident, no-nonsense and professional, and by the way some of these hiring managers were begging me to take their job that I turned down, I really think they saw me for my skills not my looks. Not that I have anything against women who wear makeup (skillfully applied!), but I just wanted to relate this to point out that sometimes making a deliberate effort to NOT appear pretty (I still think I'm good looking in more of a handsome way) can be both liberating and effective. Just a thought, and again, I mean no offense to those who are great at doing their makeup!