32. They will be condemned eternally, together with their teachers, who believe themselves sure of their salvation because they have letters of pardon.
OUCH BUT FAIR ENOUGH BECAUSE I HATE PRESUMPTION SO IT STANDS TO REASON THAT LITERALLY EVERYONE ELSE DOES, “Hi, it’s me, Heaven, I…believe everything is in order” fuck outta here
33. Men must be on their guard against those who say that the pope’s pardons are that inestimable gift of God by which man is reconciled to Him;
I get it, that’s like waving a paid-for parking ticket at the DMV and insisting it’s your license and registration, which I have pretty much done
34. For these “graces of pardon” concern only the penalties of sacramental satisfaction, and these are appointed by man.
“Guys this forgives you for ONE thing not ALL things,” again that’s fair because I usually mistake when someone forgives me for one mistake as a blanket approval of my entire being
35. They preach no Christian doctrine who teach that contrition is not necessary in those who intend to buy souls out of purgatory or to buy confessionalia.
CONFESSIONALIA, WHAT A DOPE WORD
36. Every truly repentant Christian has a right to full remission of penalty and guilt, even without letters of pardon.
“ALL YOU HAVE TO BE IS SORRY FOR SOMEONE TO FORGIVE YOU,” SURE WISH THAT WAS ALWAYS THE CASE
37. Every true Christian, whether living or dead, has part in all the blessings of Christ and the Church; and this is granted him by God, even without letters of pardon.
dead people’s feelings also matter, I can get behind this, I plan on having feelings forever, no matter how dead I am
38. Nevertheless, the remission and participation [in the blessings of the Church] which are granted by the pope are in no way to be despised, for they are, as I have said, the declaration of divine remission.
“I’m not MAD at the pope, you guys, he does some great stuff” very smart strategy, Martin!
39. It is most difficult, even for the very keenest theologians, at one and the same time to commend to the people the abundance of pardons and [the need of] true contrition.
“I don’t blame you all for failing, this stuff is REALLY hard” I FEEL like this is a dig at…SOMEONE. Erasmus???
40. True contrition seeks and loves penalties, but liberal pardons only relax penalties and cause them to be hated, or at least, furnish an occasion for hating them.
“Obviously I will take it as a given that we all LOVE suffering” oh Luthy you get me
41. Apostolic pardons are to be preached with caution, lest the people may falsely think them preferable to other good works of love.
more people SHOULD preach with caution, good advice for all eras
42. Christians are to be taught that the pope does not intend the buying of pardons to be compared in any way to works of mercy.
ooh look who knows so much what the pope is thinking, MARTIN
43. Christians are to be taught that he who gives to the poor or lends to the needy does a better work than buying pardons;
I don’t have a good joke about this, this is a good piece of advice
44. Because love grows by works of love, and man becomes better; but by pardons man does not grow better, only more free from penalty.
Aw! This was actually really lovely!
45. Christians are to be taught that he who sees a man in need, and passes him by, and gives money for pardons, purchases not the indulgences of the pope, but the indignation of God.
OH VERY NICELY PUT, I think you are really hitting your stride around the halfway mark, look forward to future thesing!
The image of Mallory encouraging Luther along the theses with these asides is so life giving.
#36 Luther’s Jesus (Lutheran Jesus, as we call him at home) seriously gets it, it’s hard, just look inside yourself to see how your actions affect those around you and try your best to bring better things in to the world in the future.
The Indignation of God, new band name, called it.
Love grows by works of love.
New life motto, right there.
“…I…believe everything’s is in order.” fuck outta here…”
DYING. And it just got better and better, I have no words except marvellous, wickedly funny, etc. etc. and etc.
Brb, gotta paint #43-45 in a huge mural along one side of my bedroom so it’s the first/last thing I see every day.
Re #43-45 — this is huge. Catholics have the corporal works of mercy (feed the hungry, visit the sick/imprisoned, etc.) they’re supposed to be performing regularly, and charitable giving is a tenet of Islam too. I think ??? that Protestant belief states that to get to heaven, you only need to believe Christ is your savior — you don’t have to do good works. Or perhaps that’s only certain strains of evangelism? Anyway, that’s one area where I have a lot of respect for Catholicism and Islam — I just don’t get the concept of faith without having to DO things to back it up. Well, I don’t really get the concept of faith either, but it’s nice when religions prod their followers into treating others well.
I do know that an amazing amount of charitable works are done by church groups, way beyond what you might expect. UMCOR, for example, is the gold standard in disaster training. These groups often don’t care what your beliefs are, they’re willing to help you or take you as a volunteer. http://www.umcor.org/UMCOR/Programs
I’m in the non-profit world and it’s interesting how much of it is faith-driven, though without the missionary zeal. They do a lot of great work that in other places the government might do. Of course, the US’s traditions and tax breaks assist in this, and there’s a lot of arguing to be done as to whether this is a good way to handle societal problems.
Psbyterian here. The way we have talked about it is that you cannot earn your way to grace through good works, but that the consciousness of God’s love will lead you to perform good works…you can’t be good enough to save yourself, butyou’d still better be as good as you can.
That pretty much exactly what Paul says, and also just about every single Christian who wrote anything down between, say, 90 and 150 CE. Ignatius (or possibly Clement of Rome, but I’m pretty sure Ignatius) even says that wanting to do good works is a REWARD for having done good works in the past.
So, good on the Presbyterians, is what I’m saying.
SO I also work in the non-profit world (humanitarian) and now I am ridiculously eager to cite my favourite humanitarian NGO tagline ever which is from a Christian aid agency because it intersects perfectly with this comment:
Christian Aid: We Believe in Life before Death.
I myself am all atheist all the time, but I still love everything about that motto.
“that Protestant belief states that to get to heaven, you only need to believe Christ is your savior — you don’t have to do good works. Or perhaps that’s only certain strains of evangelism?”
IANATheologian, but I think that’s specifically a Calvinist doctrine (which most evangelical theology is descended from). Luther still thinks corporal works of mercy are important, he’s just critiquing the way that the Church in his time had turned “give your money to the poor” into “give to the Church.”
And even though Calvin was a total bummer whose work Mallory would have way less fun reviewing (or maybe more? I dunno), he still thought charity was a Good Thing, just that you couldn’t use it to earn your way into Heaven. He had a point there; you’re supposed to do good works because they’re good, not because you’re hoping to get rewarded later.
Depends on the denomination and whether they’re Calvinist, Arminianists, or Universalists.
Calvinists believe in salvation by grace, but that grace is extended to only a select number of people.
Arminianism states that Jesus died for everyone, but that salvation is a choice one makes (“decisions for Christ” is a phrase I’ve heard often growing up) via prevenient grace (grace that exists before conversion).
Universalists believe that salvation by grace is granted to everyone. Some believe that some may go through a punishment of some kind, after the judgement, before they’re reconciled to God.
That said, throughout the Gospels and other writings in the New Testament, it’s stated that your faith should be backed up by what you do (“faith without works is dead”), or that it is down to what you do — namely, how you treat other people.
Thanks! I knew you guys would know.
And I need a sampler with that motto on it!
Although it’s worth noting that the letter of James, from which that verse comes, is the one Luther wanted to throw out for being “an epistle of straw.” Which is not to say that Luther did not believe in Good Works, he was just profoundly suspicious of any preaching that mentioned them in connection with salvation.
The Campbellite denominations, like most Baptists and Churches of Christ, believe both faith and works are necessary for salvation because “faith without works is dead.”
Citation: I still have my Bible Bowl trophy.
fab-est (fabbest?) citation I’ve ever read
It is sparkly.
I just got rid of my Bible Bowl ribbons a year ago!
This Church of Christer agrees. You’ll have a hard time finding anyone in CoC who thinks you are saved by works and not faith (unless you consider baptism to be a work, in which case, yep you can find those without having to look too hard). BUT you will also pretty much never find someone who says, “Got faith? Okay, you’re all good! No need for good works from you!” Everyone seems to agree with James that a faith that does not inspire you to do good works is not real faith at all.
I just put mine away as age is taking its toll, but I’ll never get rid of it. 🙂 hello fellow CoCer!
Well, the idea come specifically from here:
“For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast.”
Ephesians 2:8-9
But, as other commenters point out, Jesus is also very specific in what he expects his followers to be doing, and demonstrated by his own example.
And there is <a href=”https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James+2:14-26″>this: “What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.” (it goes on from there, you can follow the link)
James 2:14-26
So yeah, some Protestants are jerks about the faith/works thing, but the Lutheran tradition I grew up with was that you didn’t earn your way to heaven by works, but that your actions were still important.
Same for Seventh-day Adventists. Some SDAs even tip into salvation by works territory, although obviously Jesus’ death/resurrection is the main thing.
somehow I’d always assumed the theses individually would be more complete. I’m gonna start calling every sentence I write a thesis. I’m sure grad students will be reassured.
Today we would call these “premises” – in the olden times, a thesis was a statement or proposition for discussion, ans the word gradually came to mean the one main point of a longer discourse, “the thesis” of it, which is the modern use. The old sense survives in places – for example, a hypothesis in scientific terms, “below-thesis”, is a single statement that has yet to be confirmed as worth discussing but is otherwise a thesis in the old sense.
I think today we’d call these the “95 tweets”
I now look forward to this every week. The Toast gets me.
more people SHOULD preach with caution, good advice for all eras
Now, there’s some cross-stitch just wanting to be done for my office wall.
“ALL YOU HAVE TO BE IS SORRY FOR SOMEONE TO FORGIVE YOU,” SURE WISH THAT WAS ALWAYS THE CASE
I mean, if that someone is Jesus, then I guess kinda yeah.
most heartily sorry. Doubleplus sorry.
*praisehands*
(but yeah I think maybe she meant in the more messy version of human-to-human relations.)
I, too, look forward to future thesing.