Every Argument About “Buffy” On The Internet, From 1998 Until Now

by Nicole and Mallory · March 24, 2015

Joss Whedon: Inventer Of Feminism Or Literal Hitler?

Joss Whedon invented feminism. Before Joss Whedon, every female character on television was crushed to death under the weight of her male co-stars’ heavier paychecks in the second-season finale.
Every female character Joss Whedon ever wrote was forcibly impregnated by a demon and brutally murdered, because Joss Whedon hates lesbians.
But Warren And The Trio Were –
EVERYONE GETS THAT WARREN AND THE TRIO REPRESENTED THE THREAT OF NON-SUPERNATURAL MISOGYNY, YOU DON’T GET CREDIT FOR PICKING UP ON THAT

Joss Whedon Doesn’t Understand What Bisexuality Is

Willow Identifies As Gay And You Are Robbing Her Of Self-Determination Because She Doesn’t Have A “Gold Star”
I’d Feel More Comfortable With Willow’s Lesbianism If It Weren’t Sometimes Equated With Drug Addiction, Literal Vampirism, And Megalomania
But She Was Clearly In Love With Oz
Who Are You To Say What Love Is
Dark Willow Was Pretty Hot, Though
Yeah, Dark Willow Was Super Hot
I’d Watch Dark Willow And Doppelgangland-Era Willow Hook Up If It Weren’t A Patriarchal Fantasy

Spuffy Is Problematic

Bangel Is A Child’s Delusion Of What Love Is
Spuffy Is Literally Assault
Okay But He Felt Really Bad About It And Didn’t Have A Soul

Waif-Fu And Thermodynamics: You Can’t Violate The Law Of Conservation Of Momentum

Season Six Felt Like Watching My Friends Get Murdered In Slow Motion Right In Front Of Me

It Was Worth It For Once More, With Feeling, Though
No, It Wasn’t
Doublemeat Palace Cancels Out Once More, With Feeling
Doublemeat Palace Cancels Out My Childhood

Xander Is The Only Character Who Retains Their Humanity On The Entire Show

Xander Is A Greater Monster Than Angelus And Invented “Nice Guy” Syndrome

Cabin in the Woods Was Okay, Though

Yeah, Cabin in the Woods Was Okay

Buffy Started To Falter After Angel Premiered

No, Buffy Started To Falter After Firefly Premiered
No, Buffy Has Never Faltered And Is Still On The Air
Buffy Started To Falter When Angel/Faith/Buffy Came Back
Buffy Was Better When It Was A Movie With Kristy Swanson

What If Evil?

Dark Willow Straight-Up Flayed a Dude!
Extremism In the Pursuit of Love Is No Vice
If a Dude Had Flayed Willow, Would We Be Cheering?

Everyone Was Too Hard On Dawn For Being A Regular Human Being

Don’t You Dare Try To Retroactively Justify Dawn

Oz vs. Tara

Oz Was Boring; Tara Was Too Good For This Sinful Earth
Tara Was Boring; Oz Was The Greatest Love Interest In Television History; Remember That Animal Crackers Monologue
What About Kenned–
SHUT UP ABOUT KENNEDY

Jenny Calendar And Race-Bending

Is It Important That Buffy Is Decidedly Not Book Smart?

Not Everyone Is Book Smart, That Is Elitist
Buffy is the Lady Channing Tatum of being Body Smart and That Is Sufficient
It Is a Tremendous Problem and Girls Should Not Watch This Show Or They Will Not Take College Seriously

I Shouldn’t Have To Watch Angel In Order To Appreciate Cordelia’s Growth As A Character

Shaming: Everyone Is Shamed

“Beer Bad” Is Slut-Shaming
“Beer Bad” Is Substance-Shaming and Preachy
“Beer Bad” Is Just a Terrible Episode
Angel Losing His Soul After He Has Sex With Buffy is Slut-Shaming
THE EPISODE WHERE WILLOW ATTENDS THE WICCAN MEETING IS WICCAN-SHAMING WICCANS ARE REAL WE ARE NOT YOUR PUNCHLINE

KENDRA’S ACCENT THOUGH

Was It Irish Sometimes, Or Was That Just Me?
Her Accent is Perfect, and Not To Be Questioned

Activating All Potential Slayers Was An Act Of Patriarchal Violence

Slaying Is Empowering
No, Slayers Were Literally Created When A Woman Of Color Was Forcibly Invaded By A Demonic Essence
Oh, Right
But Then They Get To Beat Up Everybody
Dark Willow Straight-Up Flayed a Dude

Tags: buffy the vampire slayer, comments sections, fighting, joss whedon shows and the feelings they evoke, television

Nicole and Mallory

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26 Comments

neuromanticism March 25, 2015 7:42 am

I literally cannot remember Kennedy AT ALL. As in, I'm surprised that Willow apparently had another girlfriend after Tara? A… rich girlfriend? With a tongue piercing? What??

stutterstumblewritings March 25, 2015 8:41 am

Michelle has a lot of speech quirks – monks isn't the only one 😛

damngoodcoffee March 25, 2015 10:05 am

I seem to remember hearing (and I could be wrong) that Alyson Hannigan came to Joss Whedon and asked not to be made evil, so the magic/drugs was written in a way that was almost like she was possessed, so she could more easily come back from it as a character. Which kind of ruined an arc that had been building since like season 2, but whatevs.

bookwormV March 25, 2015 10:26 am

You're not! I like it more than season 5 and 6.

bookwormV March 29, 2015 5:02 pm

And as Buffy and her friends get older, the clientele does as well. When they're teenagers, it's full of teenagers. In the later seasons, 20-somethings Spike can hit on without it being creepy. How are they marketing it?

bookwormV March 29, 2015 5:06 pm

The scene with them dancing in Bad Girls is amazing; any scenes with them fighting are even better.

Unreadaethel March 29, 2015 5:07 pm

She just came back from the dead!

Robofish March 29, 2015 5:09 pm

Um… yup. Not much more to add, either you feel it or you don't.

(I actually thought they did a good job with Dark Willow not going with the obvious comic-book route of 'evil = sexy costume switch'. But as she was being played by Alyson Hannigan, she was still hot as hell.)

bookwormV March 29, 2015 5:15 pm

And where were Angel and Spike's souls when they were soulless vampires? I mean, there appears to be some sort of afterlife – Buffy goes to Heaven and remembers it; Angel spends a few centuries in a Hell dimension (HE SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN ABLE TO GET OVER THAT, HE SHOULD BARELY BE ABLE TO REMEMBER THE EVENTS OF S1 AND 2 AFTER HIS RETURN) – so is that where the souls were? Do they just shuttle back and forth? If so, why don't Angel and Spike remember?

_historychick March 29, 2015 7:27 pm

YES!

Keni March 30, 2015 11:03 pm

YES

bookwormV April 1, 2015 1:58 pm

Yeah, I don't think Buffy did anything wrong at all, but Willow can hardly say that Buffy was the Best Friend Ever to Faith and by choosing to go over to the Mayor despite that makes her evil. Faith had a hard time! Buffy tried hard, but she had a lot of other stuff going on.

katiemeade April 4, 2015 8:42 am

yes yes yes when I was apartment hunting in NYC I watched it a million times and felt simultaneously better and worse.

Laura April 4, 2015 1:18 pm

Ugh, YES. Especially the part where he claims he knows about their relationship problems because he's so perceptive. Riley literally TOLD you that he didn't think Buffy loved him. Also, thanks for trying to guilt trip her and force her into the relationship you think she should be in. Hate Xander in that scene.

notemily April 4, 2015 5:16 pm

That one time Duncan goes off his meds and acts really different: Angelus

Elle April 13, 2015 11:45 am

How does he seem really good in bed? Whenever they had sex it was 50 shades of missionary.

Elle April 13, 2015 12:03 pm

Anyone remember when Buffy was fighting the leader of the college vampire group and then she was like "Wow Slayer, you fight like a girl." I was so fucking mad, like Joss Whedon 'inventor of feminism' really used that trope?! I hate when women say that to each other. Like the vampire slayer is always a girl and she fucking knew that, so girls are the best god damn fighters in this universe. -_-

Jessy April 28, 2015 2:05 pm

He never had to face any real consequences from summoning the demon in OMWF, either. Yeah, it made him have second thoughts about marrying Anya, but PEOPLE FRAKKIN DIED because he wanted to "lighten things up a bit."

Jessy April 28, 2015 2:13 pm

I was horribly disappointed when the shot of Ripper chasing Buffy through the box maze shown in the teasers for the episode turned out to just be him lagging behind Buffy chasing Ethan. It would have made for a different and awesome episode. (Not that Band Cady wasn't awesome.) Also, I will never get past my fervent belief that Giles and Willow should've been a couple after she was legal and out of high school.

Jessy April 28, 2015 2:38 pm

The episode Ted always got on my nerves because of Buffy beating herself up over "killing" Ted, and no one making the obvious counter-arguments. Yeah, Buffy is the Slayer and therefore stronger that a regular person, but Ted didn't know he was fighting a Slayer. Ted was a full grown, large man who thought he was assaulting a normal, petite teenage girl. "I had no right to hit him like that." Well, he had no right to hit her like that, so self-defense is justified. It's not her fault he mistook someone who could take him down for someone he could beat with impunity. It's perfectly fine and understandable that Buffy feels guilty for "killing" him, but her friends needed to make those points, as well.

Lily B May 28, 2015 10:38 pm

AG! AAAAAAGGGGGG!!! Only just saw this and now anything I post will be pointless and yet I still want to poooooost!!! <welcome to my inner monologue.

Season Six rules all, because me and the buffster had lots of regrettable but enjoyable sex with skinny rocker boys. So it shall stand.

Can we talk about how it is mentioned A LOT that Buffy is DYNAMITE in the sack? Even SPIKE says he can only just keep up with her! Freakin' sex on legs, paints his fingernails Spike!!! Also Riley is so intimidated he doesn't know what to do with himself, and Angel straight up turns evil cos of it! (Which we later learn he does not do with just any sex, only Buffy sex.)

Xander is the raggiest of toerags, and the shit that happens in season 8&9 in the comics is FUCKED UP. He deserves to suffer. A lot.

Willow is good but also bad, and personally, I think if someone had taught her properly about rape and sexual consent, she would be SHOCKED to think what she had done to Tara.

Tara deserves better. She finally got away from that fucked up misogynist family of hers, only to fall in with the scoobies, and die at the hands of the worst misogynist EVER. (but the trio were kind of my favourite villians, because they portray a danger that actually exists within our own world. Isn't doxxing just the non-supernatural equivalent of what they did?)

Giles is all kinds of magnificent. Ripper is just the mortal version of Spike, and personally, that is porn I would enjoy.

Dawn is a shit, and how Buffy managed to keep from smashing in her stupid head when she KICKED BUFFY OUT OF HER OWN HOUSE in S7 is beyond me. I was all for Dark willow changing her back into a shiny ball of energy. Heck, she might have been quite useful in that form. She is a shit for many other reasons, but I hate her so much I can't be bothered to type them.

Oz was fantastic in every way, and he also makes a great comeback in the comicbooks. I mock you with my monkey pants!

You'll notice I have not mentioned Angel much. Puppet Angel was clearly his best moment.

I want everyone to read Jenny Trouts re-watch blog, so That I have people to talk about it with. http://jennytrout.com/?page_id=5723

And thats all I have to say about that (said in my very best Gump voice.)

CMc September 11, 2015 11:11 pm

Don't be too harsh, he served a purpose. As a recovering Xander, it was his awful treatment of Anya that made me realize I was being entirely too wishy-washy about a real gem, and go ahead and get hitched. Didn't want to wind up a one-eyed creeper myself!

Daniel November 24, 2015 7:44 pm

Can we talk about how negligent and terrible Buffy's mom (Joyce Summers) was? My wife is watching the show for the first time and she points this out constantly.

Daniel November 24, 2015 7:54 pm

I actually don't get how Xander's lie, while ridiculous and crappy in itself, actually changed anything. I recently rewatched that episode. How could Buffy stall killing Angel? She had to kill him because she couldn't stall his opening the portal to hell. She also clearly knew he had received his soul at the point when she killed him. Also, it is unlikely Buffy would have called off Willow's efforts if she knew about them. They had to do everything possible to stop the world from being sucked into hell.

RedSatinDoll February 1, 2016 2:58 pm

" Ted was a full grown, large man who thought he was assaulting a normal, petite teenage girl. "

I wrote an entire meta on that point a couple of years ago because I was astonished by how much of fandom (read: pretty much everyone, give or take) overlooks that exact same point. I can count on one hand the number of times I've seen it stated by anyone on the 'net, yourself included. And this strikes me as incredibly odd because it seems such an obvious point and I think one that the writers were actually going for. At this point in the series the show is still ticking off the boxes covering a lot of "run of the mill teenage issues", of both the real and the stereotypical after school-special variety.

In the shooting script of this scene Ted's force is even likened to the Terminator, but even without knowing Ted is a robot, you still have an adult male invading the bedroom of his girlfriend's teenage daughter, rifling through her drawers, invading her privacy, threatening to lock her away in an asylum, and then hitting her. Somehow because we know Buffy is the Slayer it makes all of this ok in our minds? It's sort of an extension of "strong women are unrapeable" – any and all boundary violations of their personal space is okey-dokey as well, apparently.

bumblebeeee April 17, 2016 10:35 am

WAIT HOLD ON. DID YOU HAVE THE TUMBLR. WHERE YOU POSTED BUFFY LIMERICKS. BECAUSE I LOVED THOSE.

neuromanticism March 25, 2015 7:42 am

I literally cannot remember Kennedy AT ALL. As in, I'm surprised that Willow apparently had another girlfriend after Tara? A… rich girlfriend? With a tongue piercing? What??
stutterstumblewritings March 25, 2015 8:41 am

Michelle has a lot of speech quirks – monks isn't the only one 😛
damngoodcoffee March 25, 2015 10:05 am

I seem to remember hearing (and I could be wrong) that Alyson Hannigan came to Joss Whedon and asked not to be made evil, so the magic/drugs was written in a way that was almost like she was possessed, so she could more easily come back from it as a character. Which kind of ruined an arc that had been building since like season 2, but whatevs.
bookwormV March 25, 2015 10:26 am

You're not! I like it more than season 5 and 6.
bookwormV March 29, 2015 5:02 pm

And as Buffy and her friends get older, the clientele does as well. When they're teenagers, it's full of teenagers. In the later seasons, 20-somethings Spike can hit on without it being creepy. How are they marketing it?
bookwormV March 29, 2015 5:06 pm

The scene with them dancing in Bad Girls is amazing; any scenes with them fighting are even better.
Unreadaethel March 29, 2015 5:07 pm

She just came back from the dead!
Robofish March 29, 2015 5:09 pm

Um… yup. Not much more to add, either you feel it or you don't.

(I actually thought they did a good job with Dark Willow not going with the obvious comic-book route of 'evil = sexy costume switch'. But as she was being played by Alyson Hannigan, she was still hot as hell.)
bookwormV March 29, 2015 5:15 pm

And where were Angel and Spike's souls when they were soulless vampires? I mean, there appears to be some sort of afterlife – Buffy goes to Heaven and remembers it; Angel spends a few centuries in a Hell dimension (HE SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN ABLE TO GET OVER THAT, HE SHOULD BARELY BE ABLE TO REMEMBER THE EVENTS OF S1 AND 2 AFTER HIS RETURN) – so is that where the souls were? Do they just shuttle back and forth? If so, why don't Angel and Spike remember?
_historychick March 29, 2015 7:27 pm

YES!
Keni March 30, 2015 11:03 pm

YES
bookwormV April 1, 2015 1:58 pm

Yeah, I don't think Buffy did anything wrong at all, but Willow can hardly say that Buffy was the Best Friend Ever to Faith and by choosing to go over to the Mayor despite that makes her evil. Faith had a hard time! Buffy tried hard, but she had a lot of other stuff going on.
katiemeade April 4, 2015 8:42 am

yes yes yes when I was apartment hunting in NYC I watched it a million times and felt simultaneously better and worse.
Laura April 4, 2015 1:18 pm

Ugh, YES. Especially the part where he claims he knows about their relationship problems because he's so perceptive. Riley literally TOLD you that he didn't think Buffy loved him. Also, thanks for trying to guilt trip her and force her into the relationship you think she should be in. Hate Xander in that scene.
notemily April 4, 2015 5:16 pm

That one time Duncan goes off his meds and acts really different: Angelus
Elle April 13, 2015 11:45 am

How does he seem really good in bed? Whenever they had sex it was 50 shades of missionary.
Elle April 13, 2015 12:03 pm

Anyone remember when Buffy was fighting the leader of the college vampire group and then she was like "Wow Slayer, you fight like a girl." I was so fucking mad, like Joss Whedon 'inventor of feminism' really used that trope?! I hate when women say that to each other. Like the vampire slayer is always a girl and she fucking knew that, so girls are the best god damn fighters in this universe. -_-
Jessy April 28, 2015 2:05 pm

He never had to face any real consequences from summoning the demon in OMWF, either. Yeah, it made him have second thoughts about marrying Anya, but PEOPLE FRAKKIN DIED because he wanted to "lighten things up a bit."
Jessy April 28, 2015 2:13 pm

I was horribly disappointed when the shot of Ripper chasing Buffy through the box maze shown in the teasers for the episode turned out to just be him lagging behind Buffy chasing Ethan. It would have made for a different and awesome episode. (Not that Band Cady wasn't awesome.) Also, I will never get past my fervent belief that Giles and Willow should've been a couple after she was legal and out of high school.
Jessy April 28, 2015 2:38 pm

The episode Ted always got on my nerves because of Buffy beating herself up over "killing" Ted, and no one making the obvious counter-arguments. Yeah, Buffy is the Slayer and therefore stronger that a regular person, but Ted didn't know he was fighting a Slayer. Ted was a full grown, large man who thought he was assaulting a normal, petite teenage girl. "I had no right to hit him like that." Well, he had no right to hit her like that, so self-defense is justified. It's not her fault he mistook someone who could take him down for someone he could beat with impunity. It's perfectly fine and understandable that Buffy feels guilty for "killing" him, but her friends needed to make those points, as well.
Lily B May 28, 2015 10:38 pm

AG! AAAAAAGGGGGG!!! Only just saw this and now anything I post will be pointless and yet I still want to poooooost!!! <welcome to my inner monologue.

Season Six rules all, because me and the buffster had lots of regrettable but enjoyable sex with skinny rocker boys. So it shall stand.

Can we talk about how it is mentioned A LOT that Buffy is DYNAMITE in the sack? Even SPIKE says he can only just keep up with her! Freakin' sex on legs, paints his fingernails Spike!!! Also Riley is so intimidated he doesn't know what to do with himself, and Angel straight up turns evil cos of it! (Which we later learn he does not do with just any sex, only Buffy sex.)

Xander is the raggiest of toerags, and the shit that happens in season 8&9 in the comics is FUCKED UP. He deserves to suffer. A lot.

Willow is good but also bad, and personally, I think if someone had taught her properly about rape and sexual consent, she would be SHOCKED to think what she had done to Tara.

Tara deserves better. She finally got away from that fucked up misogynist family of hers, only to fall in with the scoobies, and die at the hands of the worst misogynist EVER. (but the trio were kind of my favourite villians, because they portray a danger that actually exists within our own world. Isn't doxxing just the non-supernatural equivalent of what they did?)

Giles is all kinds of magnificent. Ripper is just the mortal version of Spike, and personally, that is porn I would enjoy.

Dawn is a shit, and how Buffy managed to keep from smashing in her stupid head when she KICKED BUFFY OUT OF HER OWN HOUSE in S7 is beyond me. I was all for Dark willow changing her back into a shiny ball of energy. Heck, she might have been quite useful in that form. She is a shit for many other reasons, but I hate her so much I can't be bothered to type them.

Oz was fantastic in every way, and he also makes a great comeback in the comicbooks. I mock you with my monkey pants!

You'll notice I have not mentioned Angel much. Puppet Angel was clearly his best moment.

I want everyone to read Jenny Trouts re-watch blog, so That I have people to talk about it with. http://jennytrout.com/?page_id=5723

And thats all I have to say about that (said in my very best Gump voice.)
CMc September 11, 2015 11:11 pm

Don't be too harsh, he served a purpose. As a recovering Xander, it was his awful treatment of Anya that made me realize I was being entirely too wishy-washy about a real gem, and go ahead and get hitched. Didn't want to wind up a one-eyed creeper myself!
Daniel November 24, 2015 7:44 pm

Can we talk about how negligent and terrible Buffy's mom (Joyce Summers) was? My wife is watching the show for the first time and she points this out constantly.
Daniel November 24, 2015 7:54 pm

I actually don't get how Xander's lie, while ridiculous and crappy in itself, actually changed anything. I recently rewatched that episode. How could Buffy stall killing Angel? She had to kill him because she couldn't stall his opening the portal to hell. She also clearly knew he had received his soul at the point when she killed him. Also, it is unlikely Buffy would have called off Willow's efforts if she knew about them. They had to do everything possible to stop the world from being sucked into hell.
RedSatinDoll February 1, 2016 2:58 pm

" Ted was a full grown, large man who thought he was assaulting a normal, petite teenage girl. "

I wrote an entire meta on that point a couple of years ago because I was astonished by how much of fandom (read: pretty much everyone, give or take) overlooks that exact same point. I can count on one hand the number of times I've seen it stated by anyone on the 'net, yourself included. And this strikes me as incredibly odd because it seems such an obvious point and I think one that the writers were actually going for. At this point in the series the show is still ticking off the boxes covering a lot of "run of the mill teenage issues", of both the real and the stereotypical after school-special variety.

In the shooting script of this scene Ted's force is even likened to the Terminator, but even without knowing Ted is a robot, you still have an adult male invading the bedroom of his girlfriend's teenage daughter, rifling through her drawers, invading her privacy, threatening to lock her away in an asylum, and then hitting her. Somehow because we know Buffy is the Slayer it makes all of this ok in our minds? It's sort of an extension of "strong women are unrapeable" – any and all boundary violations of their personal space is okey-dokey as well, apparently.
bumblebeeee April 17, 2016 10:35 am

WAIT HOLD ON. DID YOU HAVE THE TUMBLR. WHERE YOU POSTED BUFFY LIMERICKS. BECAUSE I LOVED THOSE.

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