“I like naked boys better than naked girls.”
This is my very first joke.
I am four years old. My parents are allowing my brother, sister and I to sleep in the same room so that we can celebrate the installation of dozens of glow-in-the-dark stars on my sister’s bedroom ceiling. My brother and I are camped out on the floor while my sister, a wise twelve to our four and six, respectively, explains the ins and outs of this new technology.
This statement, as sincere as everything else I say at the age of four, is in direct response to the intro credits of Quantum Leap, which is appointment television in my household (and in the household of anyone else with good taste in 1992). It’s with no shame that I admit that Scott Bakula is probably the catalyst for my earliest sexual feelings. His naked body, awash in blue smoke, is maybe the most amazing thing my four year-old brain can process, and gives me cravings to see more boys like that awash in blue smoke.
(It should be noted that after revisiting the show recently, it is pointed out to me that Scott isn’t actually naked in that blue smoke, but at four years old, this is what I think a naked body looks like because, even though I am myself in possession of a naked body, I am four years old and an idiot).
My brother and my sister cackle wildly at my statement, “getting” the joke that isn’t a joke. I am silent. I don’t understand why this is funny. It would be a couple more years before they tell me this is wrong. It will be a couple more after that before someone explains why my brother and sister are white and I am not.
I, like many other Korean “Jeffs” and “Beckys,” am adopted. We popped up in many suburban white households in the ‘80s through the ‘90s, due in part to Korea’s relaxed adoption policies, but mostly because Asian babies are unequivocally the cutest babies. My family is warm, kind, and very, very Christian. But they are my family, and I never (except for one “you’re not my real mom!” moment that I’m not particularly proud of) think of them as anything but that.
My parents strike a good balance between explaining carefully why my face is not their face, and treating the whole thing as a non issue. I am homeschooled, which makes things a little easier on them.
I watch home movies of my family meeting me at the airport, and wish there was something worth submitting to Bob Saget. I am given ugly Korean Christmas ornaments one year and cry because I want Wonder Woman. I am told my birth name, and don’t understand why someone would name a boy “June” (Joon), and then I quickly wish I am a girl named June, because girls named June get to be secretaries and fall in love with ruggedly handsome journalists when they play make believe with their sister and her friends on Saturday afternoons. Boys named Joel do not.
I come out of the closet twice more between the ages of 12 and 16. About twelve times more if you count the number of times I write, “Please, God, don’t let me be gay,” in my prayer journal or post anxious questions about the heavenly fate of homosexuals on Christian message boards in the early days of internet anonymity. Thirteen more, if you count the time I named my cat “Rock Hudson.”
Through homeschooling I manage to escape bullying and uncomfortable questions and sex ed and evolution. I sit quietly most days, reading books and getting the answers for my math work directly from the answer key (I’ll regret this later on, which is a different confessional essay entirely). I watch as my brother educates himself by playing The Legend of Zelda for hours and hours on end, and read aloud all the talky parts. You know: drama class. At some point I decide I want to go to college someday, and convince my parents to send me to public school despite their numerous concerns about drugs and secularism.
It only takes a month of public education and I am in love with a boy named Steven who stands in front of me in Concert Choir (the best choir, in case you were curious — I am very talented). A month after that I am an out and proud gay teen.
I embrace it wholly and completely. I am genetically engineered (literally, depending on what science you subscribe to) to fit into this world. I listen to Wicked on loop. I crusade to start a gay-straight alliance in my high school. I triumphantly play one season of JV basketball in an (ill-advised) attempt to shatter everyone’s idea of gay stereotypes. I do the morning announcements because I’m charismatic and like attention.
I have been gay for ten years now, and things are going really well. Thanks for asking.
I have been Asian for my entire life, and I still don’t know exactly what the fuck that means.
***
“I’m just not that into Asian guys”
The first time I hear this is in high school. I’ve just given him a blowjob in his car, directly across the street from my god-fearing parents. I want us to be boyfriends so badly. But, he already has a nice, white boyfriend that he met on MySpace or something (because that’s how we did it in 2004) and while my mouth is good enough for his dick, it’s apparently not good enough for his face.
This is the Korean Christmas ornaments all over again.
In truth, this is maybe the first time it will dawn on me that my race and my sexuality are inexorably linked. I am sad that this sort of paradigm-shifting, world-altering moment is happening in the back of a Pontiac Sunfire.
I will hear this many more times. I will read its every variation on dating websites and the profiles of men of varying shapes, sizes, and colors. Sometimes it’s preceded by the sincerest of apologies (“Sorry, not into Azns”), sometimes it pops up in a list (“No fats, no femmes, no Asians”) and sometimes it’s a little more implicit (“whites only”).
I’m horrified, obviously. This is racism, right? This feels like racism.
“It’s not racism. I just have a preference. Everybody has a preference.”
Oh, well then.
But then, this never quite computes for me. Because how do they know? They just feel it in their bones? Because as I’m hearing this defense spoken to me, all I hear is: “You all look identical. I feel it in my bones.” Like an old mountain witch who knows when it’s about to rain. White men on the internet apparently just know that whatever makes one Asian repulsive to them makes us all repulsive to them.
When I hear this, I want to run after them and ask, “Is it a cultural thing?” Maybe they think I’m too submissive in bed because I have a tiger mom, and I want to scream out into the vast emptiness of the internet, “Oh, but I don’t have one of those! I have a regular white mom, like you! I got mediocre grades at best…!”
In other words: I’m not like the rest of them.
That echoes back to me, because the internet is not a vacuum. It’s a funhouse where all the walls are mirrors that take the features you didn’t even realize were your worst and blows them all up for you to analyze and obsess over. I look at myself and expect to see a nice, funny gay guy who just happens to be Asian, and instead I see a racist mountain witch I just got done railing against in my blog.
This is getting complicated.
***
“You don’t kiss like an Asian guy.”
I laugh, because I’m naked and he’s hot, and baffling non-sequiturs aside, this had been a pretty fulfilling sexual experience thus far. But I make a mental note to revisit this and turn it over and over again in my brain until my head feels like it might explode.
He’s been with a lot of Asian guys. Or so he says. He doesn’t just like Asian guys, he likes guys who look Asian, too.
“I dated a Spanish guy once, but you’d never know it. He looked Filipino,” he tells me confidently. Believe it or not, this is all very comforting to me in the moment.
He’s a “rice queen,” a guy who seeks out guys like me. Or in his case, guys who look like me. But I’m different, apparently. I kiss differently than the Korean yoga teacher or the Japanese guy who “did something with art, I don’t know, he was a terrible fuck.” But I’m a good fuck. Take the little victories where you can, I guess.
Sometimes I feel like I am two entirely separate people. At times I get to be gay and watch old episodes of Queer As Folk with my friends and laugh about how outdated it all is. And then other times I am Asian and watch Looking with my friends and laugh about how a show that apparently takes place in San Francisco has only one Asian with a speaking part, who isn’t even gay.
Two separate threads of a person, completely divorced from one another.
“Don’t think about it so much,” he tells me. I’m back in bed with the rice queen. It’s good advice. But I have a drama degree and a minor in queer theory, so that’s basically, like, impossible. He might as well ask me to stop expressing myself through song, which I will never stop doing. I paid too much money to learn how to do it, after all.
I leave his bed thinking about everything he told me. He won’t be returning my texts, despite the fetish. I stalk him on Facebook and see he found a different Asian boyfriend. Was I not Asian enough? Should I kiss worse? Is that a thing? I honestly don’t know how we’re supposed to be, and this is what I hate most. That I’m learning what it means to be Asian from this man and his beard and his experiences. I hate that the extent of my own personal knowledge about my heritage is that we have exceptionally ugly Christmas ornaments.
I’m still untangling all of this in my mind. I’m still figuring out how I can Parent Trap both of my identities into a room and have them sit down and talk and fall in love again so I can feel like a whole person, a confident person. I hope this all doesn’t make me seem broken, because that’s not how I feel. Just, incomplete.
I think back to my sister’s bedroom. I think back to how clear everything was at four years old. I like to see naked boys better than naked girls. This is still true. I focus on what’s clear, what I know. Scott Bakula. Blue smoke. I am the cutest part about all of our family portraits. It’s not complicated, when you think like a four-year-old.
Someday it will be that simple again. Someday I’ll be lying in bed with a man who isn’t there despite or because of my race. We’ll talk about jean jackets and comic books and cats; identity politics will seem very boring because in this future, the future where I have a boyfriend, everything looks like Brandy’s remake of Cinderella. Sex will feel great because in this future all sex will be unprotected, because it’s this is how fictional the future looks to me.
Until then, all I know is Korean Christmas ornaments are terribly ugly.
Tags: dating, joel kim booster, lgbt, racism
1) Wow, this made me sad. I just don’t really understand the whole ‘no ____’ thing at all. Either you like someone or you don’t.. Either you’re attracted or you’re not. I really, really do not get it.
2) You were a seriously cute baby!
(Just realised that this might imply that you’re no longer cute–obviously not the case, but eee, cute baby!)
No, but I mean. I definitely peaked as an infant and I’m not ashamed to admit that.
Oh, didn’t we all? Sigh.
Not those of us who were ugly babies… I had infant wrinkles and blotchy, sick-looking skin (followed by a period of extreme cuteness from about 3-7, and then a loooong awkward phase). A family friend once commented that I was a weird looking baby. Alas.
Apparently I had a dime-sized birth mark on my upper lip as a newborn causing my mother to cry repeatedly “my baby looks like hitler!!” didn’t help that I also had beady eyes and a mess of black hair. Luckily this was apparently one of those quickly fading birth marks and I got to be a cute(r) infant.
Truth. I peaked between ages 3-5. (didn’t get hair til I was 2 1/2 and had weird pointy Vulcan ears)
This is hilarious and excellent. Also, “rice queen,” what even.
Seconded! Obviously, the sh*tty things people say are super sh*tty, but your writing is so much fun that I found the reading of it quite pleasant.
i’ve been told the term for an asian guy who only goes after white guys is “potato queen”
this is something that i will never be able to forget
I’ve heard this too, and it has never made sense to me.
Ideas like “rice queen” and “yellow fever” make me sad, sad, sad. How did this get to be a cultural Thing?
Secondly, I think we can safely assume that’s your grad photo, and if that is your dad furthest to the left, he looks like he’s auditioning for the next cover of Dad Magazine.
That is my dad, and he is the Dad-est person I’ve ever met. God love him.
I was about to say “I love how happy everyone looks in your grad picture” and, well, I still love how happy almost everyone looks… It sounds like you had a good growing up experience and an accepting family – I hope that’s true.
Nothing good ever happens in Pontiac Sunfires. (Source: this gay girl’s brief and very regretable attempt at heterosexuality happened with a guy who drove one.) I’m sorry you also had such an unpleasant brush with a Sunfire owner, but you’re hilarious and have now been published on the Toast, so clearly you came out ahead!
If there’s only one takeaway from this essay, I hope that it is this.
“Nothing good ever happens in Pontiac Sunfires”
Having only driven one, once, when the owner of said car was drunk and I was the only other person in our group who could drive stick, I wholeheartedly CONCUR WITH THIS STATEMENT. I love the Solstice, and Pontiac had an amazing run of cars overall, but there is a reason the company went under and I point to the Sunfire as their beginning of the end.
God, what a shitty car.
That would be a great song title! “Nothing Good Ever Happens in Pontiac Sunfires”
This is a great and sad piece, and I am glad to see it on here.
Also, ugh. Jokes that aren’t jokes, and people laughing. I feel that experience so hard 🙁
HOW IS IT that people still feel comfortable saying “Oh, I’m just not attracted to [a particular race]”? And why does it always seem to come up when I’ve had a couple of drinks, and can’t articulate a more productive response than “SRY UR SUCH A BIGOT, I GUESS”?
Sounds like a perfect response to me.
Dude, I am (white and) married to an Asian man, and people tell ME this. Why???? “I’m just not into Asian guys! Haha!”
1. Why are you telling me, I seem a weird choice for this confession
2. Do you want a cookie? I don’t give cookies to racists.
3. Seriously, why are you telling me this? For starters, you shouldn’t be telling anyone, and secondly…..WHY, SERIOUSLY, WHY.
I am a white Latina who had a black boyfriend for most of her 20s, and yes. Exactly what you just said. All the times I swallowed my toungue while thinking “why the hell are you giving me your racist opinion of my boyfriend?!?!”
Also a white person with an Asian partner and ^THIS. I’d add that sometimes I get the feeling that the statement is an attempt to give ME the cookie for “dealing” with whatever they believe makes not-white people undateable. Gross, gross, gross.
Also, I’m totally incorporating #1 into my retort game, which needs to be stronger.
I’ve met dudes who’ll just announce their racial preferences to whoever, regardless of any possibly sensical context (“Takin’ that coffee with cream, huh? Let me tell you about the problem with blacks…”). Apparently there’s just a whole bunch of racists who feel that that’s not just an interesting discussion point but the most compelling part of their personality, they’re The Racist Guy and they want everyone to be clear on that right at the outset? Maybe they’re fishing in the hopes you’re secretly one too, so you both can go back to their place and nail each other in Klan hoods? Maybe that really is just the most interesting thing they’ve got goin’ on.
People say that? I mean really say that? Wow.
The all-time greatest (and by greatest I mean worst) response I ever got was “Where do you even MEET someone like that?”
So I said “I ordered him from a catalogue.”
The time 14 years ago, when I was sleep deprived and out of fucking diapers and formula again and staggering through Costco and this woman asked her fellow shopper, not even me, ‘Where DO they get all those brown babies?’…I answered her.
‘BrownBaby dot com’, because that was what we said back at the start of the Aughts.
And then I went home and slept for 36 hours while my mom changed diapers and work up and began packing to move away from rural Ohio. Because srsly WTF SAYS things like that!?!?!
that is probably the most appropriate reply I can think of. BRB, gonna write it in my book of snappy retorts that I always leave at home.
Someone once said “I’m just not attracted to Asian women” to me (not Asian) I can’t remember how it came up but I immediately sent a Google image search of Zhiyi Zhang and boom he was cured. Literally was like. “Oh. I stand corrected.” What a dumb and thoughtlessly held opinion it was!
middle of the night
an assortment of Asian-American women knock on your door
“WE DON’T WANT HIM TAKE HIM BACK”
haha no doubt.
“We were quite happy WITHOUT his attention THANKS”
Congrats you probs sucessfully converted him into one of those dudes who flies to China or the Philippines every other year for a fresh wife/maid
“They’re so sweet and attentive, not like those frigid Western women ruined by feminism!”
ahaha. well he’s married to a white lady and isn’t white himself, so probably not, just made him a little less thoughtless I think.
Flip side of that coin: once someone told me that “objectively, Asian women are the most attractive of all women”. 0_o.
“Objectively.”
Ugh my mom does that. After zero drinks.
This was excellent! Extra points for use of “Parent Trap” as a verb. And yes, Brandy’s Cinderella is the ideal future we should all be working toward.
You’re an awesome writer, and I suspect also an awesome human being. Thanks for writing this. I hope we all get to Brandy’s Cinderella someday soon.
Fantastic piece… lol’ing at so many stealth zingers, like:
““Don’t think about it so much,” he tells me. I’m back in bed with the rice queen. It’s good advice. But I have a drama degree and a minor in queer theory, so that’s basically, like, impossible.”
Joel, you slayed me with “This is the Korean Christmas ornaments all over again”. I’d love to see you deliver this stuff, it’s just the right mix of sad and funny.
I would also love to read a version of this piece written in the style and voice of your cat, Rock Hudson.
(ugh, people are terrible.)
“He might as well ask me to stop expressing myself through song, which I will never stop doing. I paid too much money to learn how to do it, after all.”
GLORIOUS.
This was great, and your writing style/sense of humor is a delight to read.
We’ll talk about jean jackets and comic books and cats; identity politics will seem very boring because in this future, the future where I have a boyfriend, everything looks like Brandy’s remake of Cinderella.
I can get behind this vision of the future too.
I too had (what I now recognize as) pre-sexual feelings watching the beginning of Quantum Leap. It’s ok, it’s not like there was much naked manflesh on the TV in the 80s. We took what was offered.
I’m not alone! Thank goodness.
Oh GOODNESS NO. That credit sequence/intro shaped a lot of tiny psyches. And as early crushes go, Scott Bakula? Aw yeeeah.
I definitely googled and rewatched that intro after reading this piece.
Reading the personals, I am always surprised and saddened by the people who write : I’m looking a petite fit blonde who likes long walks, sunsets and dogs, etc etc. But wait, what if their soul make is really black, or tall, or a red head, or someone who hates long walks and has cats? That’s so limiting. They are cheating themselves. They could have a great relationship with someone who isn’t on their limited list, but they will never know.
I am, myself, in favor of lists. Get your preferences and biases out there, for good or ill! If you’re super outdoorsy and want your partner to go hiking and camping with you, then yeah, if we date there will be a lot of weekends when you’re camping and wishing I was with you but I’m not, or I am with you and I hate it. If you are a reader and want to date a reader, okay, that’s something we can talk about when we meet up. And if you write No Fatties in your profile, then yeah, I’m going to avoid you like the plague. (Also if you write “no azns,” even though I am a white lady, because wtf.) These things are very good filters.
It’s bad to see “no [x]” repeatedly when you are [x], but in my opinion it’s better to have that on the table than to pretend it’s not a thing when it is actually a thing. (I just read this thing at Jezebel which is about a dude who does not think his “big” girlfriend is all that hot and does not understand that other people do, which backfires on him hilariously, but the sad fact remains that here is this dude who is not attracted to his girlfriend but he’s not saying so and she’s still with him and he’s still being a douche to her.)
Good point. The people who write stuff like that are helpfully outing themselves as assholes so the rest of us know not to waste our time on them 🙂
Thank you for that link, it is definitely my favorite thing I have read this week!
I’m glad that shallow people are letting me know they’re shallow though so I can avoid them 😉
Yes, I feel like this too. I do not get the whole thing where people treat looking for relationships like a shopping list. I like to meet people to meet people and I like to be with people to be with people, who the people are. It is not like going to a restaurant and ordering off a menu.
When I was online dating, I found that to be a problem with how I was approaching things, too. Not that I put much in the line of ” You must X but not Y” into my profile, but I found I was looking waaay to much for a laundry list of things. I met my boyfriend offline, and I’m not sure I would have connected with him online because on paper he wasn’t really what I was looking for. It turns out we’re a good match, though, and that he’s introduced me to things I wouldn’t have thought I’d enjoy before I tried it and I’ve gotten him into things he wasn’t really involved with before.
As a dog person, I freely admit that no cat person could ever be my soulmate. Anyone who prefers cats (aka the spawn of Satan) over my cute fuzzy little sweetie pie angel kissy kissy darling baby puppy (4-year-old puppy, but whatever) could never fit into my life, which consists of 24/7 puppy adoration, or my bed, which has only room for the love of my life (puppy) and semi-contortionists who are able to squeeze their bodies into the remaining space. Not that I couldn’t be friends with cat people… As for the rest, I do agree that you shouldn’t care too much about how someone looks. If you start a relationship with someone because they are attractive to you and then they get into an accident and end up with scars everywhere, or they get old and wrinkly, as people tend to do, and their looks are the only thing you like about them, then what? Marry someone who gets your jokes and is likely to still be able to stand you in 50 years or something.
The love of my husband’s life was a black lab (RIP). He thought he could never love another the way he loved that dog. I am an equal opportunity animal person, and a cat fit into our life better, so he got me a cat. And now I don’t come second to a dog, I come third to the memory of a dog and a very much alive cat. Don’t write off the cat people, we may sneak in and beat you down.
Aw darlin’. I like you! You deserve a fella who gets you and loves you for the awesome person you clearly are.
I don’t understand that whole “dismissal of an entire race” thing either, like do they not understand the incredibly vast variations between individuals? I mean fine, you just saved me the bother of getting to know you any better, but come on son.
(This was a great piece, really communicated the tension between these different aspects of your personality, and what other people project onto you because of race)
Loved this. Funny, sad, true — all the things.
I am straight and non-adopted and a non-arts-major, but what you write about dating as an Asian-American is still so. on. point.
The stuff I’ve read while perusing friends’ Grindr profiles makes me unsurprised by this, but it was a great read and I’m really glad someone is talking about it.
I’m mostly commenting to agree that Asian babies are the cutest of all babies, though. It’s not even a close race.
Edited to add: maybe a close race was the wrong metaphor here. Oops. Haha. They blow all other babies out of the water? They run circles around all the other babies?
It’s not even a close race.
DYING HERE.
aaahahahaha I am now obsessed with the image of adorable azn babies blowing the other babies out of the water. Watch out other babies!
Joel,
Maybe I missed this in your piece (and I realize it wasn’t really the point), but I was curious if you are still involved in your parent’s faith?
My folks were also super conservative, and my leaving the church was part of my hella long coming out process.
Nope. It’s another long saga in itself, but the short of it is not at all. I went through several different phases of “christian” to just “spiritual” to pretty ambivalently agnostic at this point. My parents remain fairly obstinate about it, but we’re doing okay.
Cool. I’d definitely enjoy reading that story too… always pretty interested to see how folks dealt with being queer + being raised christian. My dad was even a pastor… of the church of christ. So, yea.
Also, dang this was a great piece. Thanks for sharing
It’s kicking around in my brain. Funny enough, I ended up not living with my folks because of this issue at one point in high school, and I ended up living with the Methodist pastor in town. So much drama and intrigue.
um joel you better be pitching me right now
Yes.
I was raised Church of Christ, and … yikes. I can’t imagine how difficult that must have been for you.
Man, I am Asian with an Asian family, and I still don’t know what the fuck it means. Being Asian in a largely white culture where that culture is basically your culture but a lot of people are hell-bent on projecting another, more “exotic” identity onto you is dehumanizing and confusing. But I think it has also produced a lot of hilarious, thoughtful people bonded by this shared experience of what the fuck, and it is, like, A PHYSICAL RELIEF to read pieces like this and remember that your people are out there.
Now I may have to watch that Scott Bakula scene again…
“It’s not racism. I just have a preference. Everybody has a preference.”
UGH, the I-just-have-a-preference people. Yes, everybody has a preference, and many of our preferences are shaped by unconscious thought processes, including bigotry. When people just spout “Oh, I’m not into [entire ethnic category of people],” they’re indicating that they don’t see individuality, that in their imagination, everyone in that category is the same. I can’t think of a clearer definition of casual, unintentional racism.
“When people just spout “Oh, I’m not into [entire ethnic category of people],” they’re indicating that they don’t see individuality, that in their imagination, everyone in that category is the same.”
Perfect way of putting it!
It’s just so hard to define the exact boundaries of which preferences are OK to express and which ones aren’t. I see “no fatties” and immediately go into “But you don’t even know me, you MONSTER!” mode, which is silly because if I ever made a profile, I would need to come up with some way to say “no anti-science juiceboxes” that doesn’t sound like I have an unfair prejudice against an entire class of people.
I guess that maybe the difference is that being a fatty is something I have limited control over (I was born this way!) whereas no one is born an anti-science juicebox?
My gut feeling (and I have not thought this out!) is that people really do have preferences, I mean, I am sexually attracted to who I am, I can’t change that, but as reasonably adult thoughtful human beings who choose to act with kindness, they do not need to say ‘No X’ in a profile, they can politely decline in other ways.
The way I’ve come to see preference/type in my own world is more, “I am frequently attracted to [characteristic X]” (an observation) rather than “I am only attracted to [characteristic X]” or “I am never attracted to [characteristic Y]” (sweeping, unfair, and silly statements)
I’m not saying we can’t have preferences, but that it’s useful and instructive to examine where those preferences come from. With very few exceptions, they aren’t innate, inborn preferences that we “just have.”
Our most specific sexual preferences are often shaped in reaction to larger societal expectations and prejudices. Obviously we all have the right to seek satisfying sexual relationships with partners who appeal to us, but when someone’s preferences mean they “aren’t into [entire ethnic group],” that’s worth examining and figuring out why.
Joel’s essay outlines some of the reasons why people have abruptly dismissed him as a partner or longterm companion based on his ethnicity, and the reasons he relates are all based on the other person’s expectation that “Asian guys” (a huge category) behave in an impossibly uniform manner and on Joel’s expected adherence to or deviation from that narrow, reductive margin of expectation. I can’t see that as not being racism.
Or we can use me as an example. I’m a white woman, now in a monogamous marriage, who never dated a non-white person. Do I think now that my dating choices were shaped in part by unconscious prejudice, by me preselecting white people to date without ever really noticing I was doing it? Yes, I do. (That’s not the only factor. Most of my dating life took place in an overwhelmingly white part of New England, so some of it was plain old demographic availability. My own unconscious privilege and blitheness also probably made me unattractive to non-white people I might otherwise have been eligible to date.) Unconscious racism is still racism.
I’m not saying people can’t have preferences. I’m saying it’s worth examining the reasons behind those preferences to see if they’re springing from unwitting bigotry, as they sometimes do. Further, it’s not especially useful or kind in most contexts to announce those preferences they way this essay relates people as doing. Whenever someone feels the need to SAY OUT LOUD “I’m not into Asian guys” or “I am into Asian guys” or “No fatties” or “I just don’t date Black men” or some other blithely unexamined piece of dating garbage, I file that away as one more self-centered expression of the proudly unexamined mind.
It surprises me how accepted it is in the culture to “not date X ethnicity.” Like, to the point that on two different occasions I had black men ask me if I didn’t “date black” when I turned them down. (In case #1 I was already in a relationship and case #2 would have been a long-distance thing, so I had legit, non-racist reasons to say no.)
I just remember how struck I was at the time that this was 1. A Thing and 2. THEY Would Ask.
PS: I grew up in a very small, very white town. I had to go to college before I knew any nonwhite people who weren’t ethnic Koreans adopted by local church families.
Hmn, I have really mixed feelings about this.
I am a big believer in knowing why about everything that I can, so I think people who don’t examine themselves are strange. But I also think people are different, and I know people who make an enormous effort to be kind and generous and warm and caring and all of those good things, and yet do not spend a lot of time trying to figure out just WHY they don’t like that guy on the street corner… because they don’t think their feelings about things matter as much as behaving with kindness and compassion.
And I totally, totally agree that nobody needs to go around saying their preferences OUT LOUD pretty much ever. I do not do attraction by categories, but if I did, I think it would be much kinder to just keep that to myself and respond to people as individual human beings.
But all of that being said, I want to put my foot down about the fact that people get to be attracted to whom they are attracted to, and to try to police that (which I am not saying you are doing, but I think it is a slippery slope) is silly. If I say I am only attracted to women, full stop, no matter what, then I’m not being a bigot, I’m being a lesbian, and nobody gets to come along and say ‘Well BUT it’s only because of cultural conditioning or that suspiciously Freudian experience you had at age 2 or because of your traumatic sexual history with men.’ Even if, maybe, those things are true. Because I get to be attracted to who I am attracted to, period, and as long as I am kind and compassionate in how I express it to other human beings, it is really nobody’s business.
So if I say I am only attracted to women whose skin is the colour of freshly fallen snow — why do the rules suddenly change? I mean, yes, saying that out loud is TOTALLY UNNECESSARY but if it turns out that is how the chemicals in my body work, that is how they work. Yes, my attraction may be in part due to unconscious racism, just as you could argue that my (at this moment theoretical) lesbianism is in part due to traumatic history, but really, if I am not being an asshole about it, then it is not anyone’s business what turns me on. Not being attracted to someone is not horrible behaviour. Using my lack of attraction to insult and demean them, THAT is horrible behaviour — and that is the behaviour I see in Joel’s really brilliant writing. Joel, I am sorry that happened to you!
Well, then, we largely agree. As I’ve said twice now, obviously people get to have and honor their own personal preferences. I’m not saying everyone gets to pick apart or negate anyone else’s private preferences, and if you think I have said that, I’d appreciate you pointing out where because I’d like to apologize for it and consider how to be clearer another time.
I’m saying self-examination is valuable, and doubly so if one’s racial preferences are so strong that one feels comfortable throwing them out as broadly as, for example, Joel describes in this essay.
but really, if I am not being an asshole about it, then it is not anyone’s business what turns me on.
I would find it hard to separate a person comfortably stating “I don’t date [entire ethnic group]” from someone “being an asshole about it.” And that’s explicitly what I’ve been talking about above.
“if it turns out that is how the chemicals in my body work, that is how they work.”
I don’t know, I think making a claim to biological “inevitability” of race-based attractions is pretty weak. Especially considering there is no biological basis to race, only sociological.
IF someone admits to only being attracted to X race or not be attracted to X race AT ALL, I think it’s worth it to then examine what culture and society SAY about X race. Do you like Asian women because they’re “submissive and not like white women”? Do you not like Asian men because “they all have small dicks”? Do you not date non-white people because “they’re just not like us”?
It’s useless to pretend that our attractions are 100% TOTALLY BIOLOGICAL THE END, especially when it comes to race. If we can agree that society shapes what features are considered most attractive in a human – for instance, why porn actors look certain ways and what goes on magazine covers and on TV shows – then it stands to reason that being surrounded by these messages OUR ENTIRE LIVES shapes our unconscious desires and attractions. It’s almost as if living in a racist society alters our conscious and unconscious desires, actions, and thoughts, isn’t it?
Furthermore, comparing only being attracted to white people to being a lesbian is…interesting. Consider, once again, power dynamics. Actively identifying as a lesbian removes social privilege and power. Being attracted to, and only dating, white people is not an act that decreases privilege.
And I’m not saying we need a Dating Police to come in and make sure everyone is dating interracially or not dating at all, I’m just saying it’s worth it to examine WHY race-based preferences may exist and be acted on. And perhaps acknowledge that these preferences and actions are influenced by existing within a racist society and absorbing messages from said society.
And high-five on the “(at the moment theoretical) lesbianism.” Mine is (at the moment and for the foreseeable future theoretical) bisexuality, and mine (AND NOT YOURS because I am talking about examining one’s own interior landscape, not dictating someone else’s) is an example of a sexuality that was shaped by societal expectations.
I am now confident that if I had come of age even a decade later in an even slightly less heteronormative culture, or had been just a little bit less swayed by the expectations of my culture and family and social group, I would have dated both women and men. I’m now married monogamously and joyously to a man, so I’m unlikely to try dating women anytime soon, and that’s both a choice and a loss of sorts.
Note: I am not saying that orientation is a choice; my choice in the past was the choice not to explore all the avenues to express the sexual desires I felt, but to lett expectations guide me toward the easiest path, the path with the least social friction.
I think we largely agree, too, and I was definitely not saying that you were being the Attraction Police; it was more what you did actually say was a springboard for me into some things I’d been thinking about a lot lately.
I do totally agree that saying categorical things about preferences around ethnicity is inherently asshole behaviour. But I am not sure (for me personally) where making categorical statements about preferences isn’t asshole behaviour. Of course people do not choose their ethnicity, but there are lots of other things people don’t choose, and there are lots of things people do choose which are pretty important to them… it gets very tangled. It is all good things for me to think about, though.
It can be very difficult to identify the causes of our own preferences, especially if they are deeply subconscious biases we’ve grown up with. I think the important difference is between categorically stating “I do not date [X type of person]”, and acknowledging that while you never happen to have been attracted to X type of person for reasons which you might not even fully understand, you remain open to the possibility that you might meet someone who shatters your subconsciously-held stereotypes or biases (especially after you* do some work to try to understand where they’re coming from first).
(*generic “you”, not anyone specifically in this discussion)
I used to be a phone sex operator, and I would occasionally get calls from dudes who wanted women of specific races/ethnicities. I am white. And while I am also not a 5″2′ redhead as I told many of my callers, I always got really squicked by being asked to be a specific ethnicity. Like, it’s one thing to find a specific set of physical traits aesthetically appealing, but if you’re calling a PHONE sex line and asking for an Asian girl, it’s because you have specific ideas about what all Asian women are like.
fdsakjl;fdsaadsf;graaaaaaaah
(adorable picture though) (the baby pic) (also Scott Bakula)
Ha ha, I was homeschooled in the 80s and 90s and also copied my math answers directly from the work book answer key! It is an unwise, irresistible thing to do.
(Great piece, also, obvs.)
Is this why my wife insists on buying the online version, even though I keep telling her it’s just the book with someone reading it to the kid? Because she knows that this urge cannot be resisted?
We had to show our work so this was pretty much impossible, though I vaguely remember that my mom did eventually make me grade my own stuff in high school. And redo any test I got less than 90% on.
I am such a square.
This makes me incredibly sad, Joel. I see this all the time, even in San Francisco, of all places. Racism, especially in the gay community, is still rampant, and it’s infuriating. As a white guy, I’m sorry for your negative experiences, because most of the time, that’s where the racism is coming from. I wish people could just love *people* instead of a laundry list of what they think is perfect, but time and again, people will just be shitbags instead.
You are really attractive! Anyone who doesn’t make you feel that way doesn’t deserve to be a part of your life.
I am so glad to see your writing on The Toast and ahhhh, this was just wonderful.
This was wonderful, and oh, the weird politics of Christmas ornaments. I had a whole talk with my dad once about why ornaments of characters from the Nutcracker are fine, but ornaments of generic and unnamed Chinese people in some approximation of traditional dress needed to be relocated to the garbage. And that was my 2013 Christmas mitzvah.
Preferences are a valid thing. Pointing out statistical facts is fine. Pretending that a big, vague, blanket statement about attraction is objectively true is pretty much always silly.
I tend not to be into Asian guys, because many Asian men have very little body hair and possess smaller frames. That doesn’t mean that a really hot guy would suddenly be not hot because “I’m Asian” left his lips. I tend to be into older guys, because age usually brings certain physical and mental changes which I appreciate. That doesn’t mean that any cute fellas on campus are immediately unattractive because they’re probably near my age.
It’s so bizarre to me that people talk about this sort of thing in such a broad and binary way. Not you, but the people who say “no Asians” or “Latinas only” or stuff like that. Is it really so difficult for people to phrase preferences in a way that isn’t purely racial?
Thank you for this Joel. I’m trans*, and a lesbian, but I swear the biggest hurdle i face while dating in the USA is being Chinese.
This would be a great laugh line if I didn’t think it were both a) true and b) sad.
Good thing I left this tab open yesterday because I just realized it has two parts. Great story — I’m sure you’ll find a boyfriend who’s not a racist tool eventually.
Have you had this problem with other Asian men as well? Somehow it is sadly believable that there are plenty of guys of race X who “just don’t like [race X]” (certainly the case with straight people anyway).
Yes, there is definitely a lot of internal racism going on. It’s something that I used to have a slight issue with, but thankfully gotten over.
I love that you wrote this, as a white, lesbian, adoptive mom to 2 Asian (Khmer) teens, one is trans and one is straight. Identity is so complex, but love should just be about love. That even now racism in the gay community is still so blatant is the sad and horrifying part of this story. I personally went through the whole christian trama/drama family stuff, and hope that your family did not disown you for being gay like mine did. You brought up so many issues that my family faces daily and will keep facing in the future, and even though I can never truly understand what my teens feel about the racism they face, I will always be there to listen about it if they want to talk, rant or rail about it.
Thank you for this article! My adopted 17 yr old son is Asian and gay, and I will be sharing this with him. Although the thought of blow jobs at his age makes me shudder (as it would for any 17 yr old child of mine, girl boy gay straight) I want him to know there are other guys like him out there. Thanks again!
I'm on it
Thank you so much for this piece.
Serious question for the author, though: Are you attracted to Asian guys? Do you sleep with Asian guys? I ask this not to be a bitch or as any kind of gotcha thing, or even because I know what your answer is. (Maybe you are and do!) But I notice that most of the anecdotes in here are about the way white guys respond to you.
In the US, we all grow up with the same BS stereotypes and beauty standards shoved down our throats from a young age. I’m a white gay guy, and, like you, I spent much of my early childhood thinking that Scott Bakula and the shirtless Pepsi guy etc. were the pinnacles of masculine attractiveness. It’s basically hardwired into me. It’s not the only thing I’m attracted to– I latched onto a few more sexual archetypes over the years– but it’s definitely one of my major types.
I tend to think that the Rice Queens were just watching different TV shows than we were and were thus programmed with different– if equally one dimensional and idiotic– fantasies and desires. Sometimes I wonder if we’re all on some level just looking for a daddy, a geisha, a mandingo, or a member of the Village People.
The truth: I’m not typically attracted to Asian guys. I’m not proud of that. I would never say it publicly or out loud, and I certainly would never put it in my Grindr profile, but nevertheless, it’s the truth. I would like to think that I could be proven wrong about this if the right guy came along, but who knows?
Yes, I do realize that I’m racist.
I don’t necessarily think it’s my fault that I’m racist– I’m not sure what I could do to change it– but I can’t possibly deny that this is definitional racism. I really do think that if white people (probably everyone, but especially white people) could just cop to the bits of racism that have been hammered into us by the world at large over the years, rather than losing our minds any time anyone suggests that we could be racist, it could go a long way toward solving a few problems in the world.
And whether we like it or not, sexuality– at least on a visceral, gut level– seems to me to work in ways that are dehumanizing, objectifying, flattening, and frankly not particularly interesting. Show me a hunky white guy with a hairy chest drinking a Pepsi and I’m done. It’s really super-boring. But what to do about it?
I hope that people out there are busily working on bringing more inclusive and diverse and interesting sex symbols to the world for the sake of future generations, but even when that happens, those symbols will still just be limited representations of what masculinity/femininity/whatever else can mean. Hopefully in the future there will be more boxes we can put ourselves into, but they’ll still just be boxes.
I think it must be incredibly frustrating and demoralizing to be an Asian guy trying to navigate the world of gay romance, which seems to have been made even more cutthroat, bitchy and shallow with the advent of Manhunt/Grindr/etc. But, at the risk of sounding condescending or dismissive, do try to remember that finding a partner– one person that you’re not in some minor but major way incompatible with– is incredibly hard for everyone. I’m sure it’s harder for you in some ways and perhaps harder for other people in other ways. Trying to be as chill as possible about the utter randomness and unfairness of it all makes things slightly easier, in my experience.
I will try my hardest to be less racist if I can figure out how. I hope, for your sake, that you try to be slightly more optimistic, if you can. I am happy to throw on a jean jacket and talk comics with you any time. I hope you kept those Christmas ornaments… THEY ARE FABULOUS. Thanks again for this piece. I hope I don’t seem like too big of a privileged dick.
Yes, I’ve had sex with a handful of East Asian men. A really cut West Asian guy (with a mutual attraction) seems to be my sexual white whale.
“I would never say it publicly”
You just did, Snowflake. You said it publicly and directly to a man who just bared his soul about how much exactly that sort of racist shit hurts him. Jesus Christ on a pogo stick. Get a clue.
This man is also baring his soul, Rosenrot, with an admittance of racism. He is trying to look inside himself to his issues, as other posters are asking people to do above. He has “a clue.” I think we shouldn’t try to shut down this complicated discussion. It is unfair to require a person to be open and then slam him when he tries.
My heart goes out to Joel (and others with similar experiences) for the unfairness and difficulties he has faced and will continue to face. I’m grateful that he shared what he did, and I’m grateful that so many people are being supportive here.
My heart also goes out to you Anony Mouse. This is one of the most considerate, heartfelt, deliberated and kindly responses that I have ever seen on the topic by a privileged person speaking on this specific topic (privilege used in the social justice context here). You clearly care about Joel- treating him as another human being, trying to empathize and sympathize.
I think it is good what you have done so far- you’ve examined your consciousness for racist thoughts, and you’ve delved into your subconscious to check for racist programming and impulses. I think this is good, I think you should consider making this a lifelong habit (and not just with race). And now I’m going to suggest something- I’m going to suggest that you’re not racist.
And the dictionary- is totally going to back me up.
Seriously- go look it up. I’m on dictionary.com, and while I won’t link because I don’t know the rules of this forum for doing so- you don’t fit the definition. You don’t believe that you/white people are superior or that Asians are inferior. You’re not hateful and intolerant. You do have biases and inclinations that -may- indicate racist programming and messages in your past which you should and do fight. But now you need to forgive yourself. You’ve done what you can for now, and will keep an open mind for workable changes in the future. You’re not responsible for how Pepsi adverts may have biased your brain in ways you were not conscious of and did not choose or play a role in. Let go of unnecessary responsibility. And realize that- we’re still not scientifically even sure what makes people attracted vs un-attracted to traits in others. We have theories- but they’re only theories and many strongly-held ones have recently been being disproved. No one is saying to be crude or offensive in announcing what you dislike, no one is encouraging you to be blind or blithe about where your urges come from- continue to explore and question. That is your responsibility. But to feel bad beyond that helps no one, and it deeply hurts yourself.
I wrote this because you seem like a deeply sympathetic person who is in pain over the fact that even by giving it all- he can’t do everything how he thinks a truly moral person should. In my mind- your efforts are the all. Don’t let the urge to be better be the cause of your own self-harm.
I have a weird suggestion, but it seems particularly pertinent given your statement that your preferences have been influenced by the media you consume.
Watch some Korean dramas.
I know, that sounds like a really odd way of addressing the issue. Hear me out though. I speak to you as a white lady who, before she stumbled on the amazing world of Korean dramas, hadn’t ever really felt attracted to East Asian men.
Here’s the thing: you admit yourself that a lot of our preferences are shaped by the media we watch. And here in the good ol’ USA, there just isn’t any popular media that portrays Asian men in a desirable, sexy way (*sobs about ‘Selfie’ being taken off the air*).
So if you grow up in America and don’t have a lot/any interaction with Asian men, and your only perspective of them has been shaped by media, you may view Asian dudes as asexual, or feminine, or just generally lacking in agency.
Watching Korean dramas changed all of this for me, because in this venue, Asian men aren’t just side kicks or nerds. They’re the hot, capable heroes. The heartthrobs. Watch an entire K-dram, and you’ll be like “What the hell? How have I never thought an Asian dude was cute before?!”.
Cute Asian guys are all around us (side note: When I googled Joel, I was like “Damn, that dude is super hot”. Not sure if it means anything coming from a lady, but there it is!), and American society has done them an incredible disservice by robbing them of popular masculine representation. If you try counteracting our cultural programming by saturating yourself with media where you are exposed to a fuller spectrum of what it means to be an Asian male, you might find yourself looking at Asian men differently.
Speaking of which, if this dude was drinking a Pepsi in your general vicinity, what would you think? 😉
Yes, I've had sex with a handful of East Asian men. A really cut West Asian guy (with a mutual attraction) seems to be my sexual white whale.
Man, I first heard about this phenomenon when reading this blog nigh on a decade ago called ‘Little, Yellow, Different’ and it struck me as just as weird then as it is now. I mean, I know I have the distance to straight up call it weird because I’m white, but I genuinely don’t get how my fellow whiteys can write off entire ethnic groups.
Everyone looks different, everyone acts different.
Then again, I’m a transguy and I already know that gay men can be kind of dicks. Lemme rephrase, gay white men. I have no bad experiences with any other demographic of gay men (that said, I also have good experiences. No monoliths)
Ugh, I lost my point. I hope your future is most excellent, dude. Your article was great.
Lovely, hilarious, a bit heart-breaking – thanks, Joel!
There needs to be a bingo card for some of the comments I often see under articles which discuss yellow fever.
‘Hi I read your article about having people tell you straight up they don’t date Asians and I think it is very important to broadcast the fact that, firstly, I am not a racist, and secondly, I don’t usually find Asians attractive. USUALLY. As I said, not a racist. Usually.’
Just… okay.
I will print out that bingo card and carry it with me.
Joel Kim you are a word-smith & a charmer. Also, I recently attended my son’s year-end orchestra concert, the one where they have a slideshow of the graduating seniors as babies then as little kids then as teens, and it’s not that the baby pics in general weren’t cute as all get out, but I certainly went away with no evidence to refute your cutest baby theory.
Thanks for sharing your story and your perspective and your humor. I’m already looking forward to your next piece here.
Ugh, I had this squirreled away in my tabs for 4 days and didn’t get around to reading it til just now and now I’m mad because it was so great and I missed being able to discuss it with a bunch of wonderful people*.
*Edit: minus that Anony Mouse moron a few posts up, of course. Christ, what an asshole.
<3
He shared it in a forum made for sharing, at a time when the discussion was brought up, and in a way which was also deeply personal, thoughtful, and considerate, and he took responsibility for what he perceives as his own personal shortcomings in the area. Jeese Rosenrot- that's really not the same thing at all, and you shortchanged someone who was really trying by being abrupt and rude.
Trust me, few Asians know exactly what it means to be Asian either. However, you learn really quick when you’ve been abroad, especially in actual Asia.
Great read, Joel, so thank you. I hail from the midwest region; am Korean by birth; American by pedigree; homeschooled until age 10; former Christian; gay; and struggle daily with the same things you wrote about here.
You hit something on the head in discussing the question, “Is it a cultural thing?” because I often think the same things. People often assign stereotypes and labels to me based on fleeting encounters, not realizing that underneath this exterior (aka my brown skin and almond shaped eyes) is a corn-fed, blue collar American as “U-S-A” as they come.
I stopped trying to identify with any single tribe (gay/Asian/etc) long long ago and as I get more and more practice at that, I’ve found my various personalities to blend better and better. It sounds like we both enjoy the element of surprise that comes when people discover that their narrow judgments were wrong, although I’ve never been told I don’t “kiss like an Asian guy.” Whatever that means.
Great read, Joel, so thank you. I hail from the midwest region; am Korean by birth; American by pedigree; homeschooled until age 10; former Christian; gay; and struggle daily with the same things you wrote about here.
You hit something on the head in discussing the question, "Is it a cultural thing?" because I often think the same things. People often assign stereotypes and labels to me based on fleeting encounters, not realizing that underneath this exterior (aka my brown skin and almond shaped eyes) is a corn-fed, blue collar American as "U-S-A" as they come.
I stopped trying to identify with any single tribe (gay/Asian/etc) long long ago and as I get more and more practice at that, I've found my various personalities to blend better and better. It sounds like we both enjoy the element of surprise that comes when people discover that their narrow judgments were wrong, although I've never been told I don't "kiss like an Asian guy." Whatever that means.
Bi white chick here. I’ve kissed a lot of Asians. It never occurred to me that “kissing like an Asian guy” was a thing until I read it here and now I can’t stop thinking WHAT IS KISSING LIKE AN ASIAN GUY FOR THE LOVE OF GOD WHAT IS IT. No tongue? Just a little tongue? Tonsil hockey? Slurpin’ on the saliva surf? I want *graphs.* I want *definitions.* Also if someone could explain “kissing like an Asian girl” that would help for purposes of comparison and contrast. Please, somebody, anybody. I won’t be able to rest until this is cleared up.
I adored the part about Parent Trap. Slightly different set of parameters for growing up than you, but I often feel that I am choosing between my Korean and queer identities because things always seem to be one OR the other.. I genuinely want to give you a hug because of how much this resonated with me.
Hi Joel,
I loved your piece and I think you’re a fantastic writer. Thanks for your honesty, humour and intelligence.
-From a fellow Korean adoptee
I have a weird suggestion, but it seems particularly pertinent given your statement that your preferences have been influenced by the media you consume.
Watch some Korean dramas.
I know, that sounds like a really odd way of addressing the issue. Hear me out though. I speak to you as a white lady who, before she stumbled on the amazing world of Korean dramas, hadn't ever really felt attracted to East Asian men.
Here's the thing: you admit yourself that a lot of our preferences are shaped by the media we watch. And here in the good ol' USA, there just isn't any popular media that portrays Asian men in a desirable, sexy way (*sobs about 'Selfie' being taken off the air*).
So if you grow up in America and don't have a lot/any interaction with Asian men, and your only perspective of them has been shaped by media, you may view Asian dudes as asexual, or feminine, or just generally lacking in agency.
Watching Korean dramas changed all of this for me, because in this venue, Asian men aren't just side kicks or nerds. They're the hot, capable heroes. The heartthrobs. Watch an entire K-dram, and you'll be like "What the hell? How have I never thought an Asian dude was cute before?!".
Cute Asian guys are all around us (side note: When I googled Joel, I was like "Damn, that dude is super hot". Not sure if it means anything coming from a lady, but there it is!), and American society has done them an incredible disservice by robbing them of popular masculine representation. If you try counteracting our cultural programming by saturating yourself with media where you are exposed to a fuller spectrum of what it means to be an Asian male, you might find yourself looking at Asian men differently.
Speaking of which, if this dude was drinking a Pepsi in your general vicinity, what would you think? 😉
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