Anne Thériault’s previous work for The Toast can be found here.
If you’re anything like me (and if you aren’t, MAYBE YOU SHOULD BE – THINK ABOUT IT), you’ve definitely spent a lot of your time objectively ranking Henry VIII’s wives. This can be done by carefully employing the scientific method that you learned for the science fair in sixth grade. After that you need to square your answer and find the hypotenuse and then employ the quadratic formula. Because this isn’t just conjecture, ok? This is English Monarchy Science.
The ranking of Henry VII’s wives is so obvious that I shouldn’t even have to tell you who comes first and who comes last. Like, do you even Tudor, bro? But just in case you’re in any danger of coming to the wrong conclusions, let me condescendingly lay it out for you here:
FROM BEST TO SUCKIEST:
- Anne Boleyn
- Catherine of Aragon
- Catherine Howard
- Anne of Cleves
- Catherine Parr
- Sucky old Jane Seymour, with her stupid ability to give birth to princes who survive past infancy and her stupid boring face. GOOD RIDDANCE, JANE SEYMOUR. WAY TO DIE IN CHILDBIRTH LIKE A CHUMP. DON’T LET THE DOOR HIT YOUR ASS ON THE WAY OUT.
Far from being the slutty home-wrecker and raging bitch that both historical texts and popular media make her out to be, Anne was actually a super rad lady (although it should be noted that sluttiness is a social construct, and also that sleeping around and being a raging bitch are not mutually exclusive with the concept of radness.) Anne was a smart woman who knew what she wanted (to be queen) and what she didn’t want (to be the king’s mistress/anything other than queen.) She held out for seven years while Henry tried to get her into his bed. SEVEN YEARS. That is so fucking ballsy. Like, it’s both ballsy not to give the King of England what he wants and also ballsy to assume that you can keep him and his roving boner interested in you for seven years.
Speaking of ballsy, let’s talk about the death grudge that Anne held against Cardinal Wolsey. Some background: Anne had a secret betrothal to Henry Percy, son of the Earl of Northumberland, but when Wolsey found out he forced them to break it off. Anne was fucking pissed, mostly because she was pretty sure no one as high ranking as an earl’s son would ever offer to marry her again (hang in there Anne, there are better things coming – but, spoiler alert, also way worse things.) Did Anne choose to forgive Cardinal Wolsey, one of Henry VIII’s closest friends and advisors, once she and the king were finally boning? NO SHE DID NOT. She had way too much self-respect for that. Instead, she convinced Henry that Wolsey was deliberately cock-blocking him by failing to get him an annulment for his marriage to Catherine of Aragon. And if there was one thing that Henry VIII hated, it was cock-blocking.
Wolsey was stripped of all his titles and sent to Yorkshire. The next year he was accused of treason, and on his way back to stand trial London he died.
ANNE BOLEYN – 1
CARDINAL WOLSEY – 0
Anne was great at a lot of things, for example pretending to be French. She helped solidify England’s alliance with France, which she probably accomplished by taking every important French dude aside and being like, “Listen, just tell him that Catherine of Aragon’s a bitch and that you hate Spain and I promise he’ll love you forever. Also, feel free to keep that shit hole Calais.” She spent her spare time skateboarding around and flipping off the pope. Like, she would lean over Henry’s desk with an anti-Catholic pamphlet in her cleavage and be like, “HEY, CHECK OUT THIS HERETICAL WRITING THAT JUST FELL INTO MY MELON BASKET.” And then Henry would be like, “HMMM YOU SAUCY LITTLE MINX, SOUNDS LIKE SOME GOOD READING MATERIAL FOR WHEN I VISIT THE ROYAL SHIT HOUSE*.” Then he would go to stick his hand down her dress and she’d be all, “NO BUT I AM A VIRTUOUS MAIDEN AND ONLY MY HUSBAND SHALL TOUCH ME THERE. I WISH THOU WERT MY HUSBAND BUT SADLY, THOU ART ALREADY WEDDED” and he’d be like, “WHOA LIGHTBULB MOMENT WHAT IF I MADE A NEW CHURCH THAT LET ME DIVORCE CATHERINE???”
Which is pretty much how the Reformation played out.
For her coronation ceremony, Anne totally wore a dude’s crown. She was like, “Fuck your lady crowns, I want that big gold fucker over there.” And everyone else was like, “BUT MISTRESS FAIR, THAT IS ST. EDWARD’S CROWN. IT HAS ONLY EVER HISTORICALLY BEEN USED TO CROWN A KING. ART THOU NOT A QUEEN?” And Anne was like, “Fuck your gender binary of crowns.”
And then she invented gender theory and burned down the patriarchy and was like, “Fuck all of you motherfuckers.”
Things got a little shaky for Anne after her marriage and subsequent inability to produce a baby with a penis (which, having taken grade eleven biology, I know was actually Henry’s fault, but I guess they didn’t really Science much back then.) Three years after her coronation she was accused of sleeping around with pretty much the entire court, including her brother. Which, I mean, Henry. Come on. That’s fucking gross and you have a gross imagination and what are you, sixteen? Writing out his fake accusation probably involved Henry writing out a bunch of fanfic about Anne and all your friends and being like, HMMM WHICH PAIRING DOES THE ROYAL DICK LIKE BEST? And there is nothing wrong with writing fanfic about your wife, but no one else wants to know about your incest fantasies.
Anne was, of course, beheaded. Henry brought in a special fancy swordsman from France to do the job, like, OH MY LITTLE SWEETMEAT, NOTHING BUT THE BEST BEHEADING FOR YOU. But Anne faced death just like she faced everything else, by which I mean she looked death in the face and made a jerk-off motion. She even went around saying that her execution would be easy because she had such a little neck. The Constable of the Tower said that she laughed “heartily” over that joke. HEARTILY, I TELL YOU. Then she went to the window and flipped off Jane Seymour forever.
Anne lived in a time when women were shit on (figuratively and maybe even literally, depending on people’s kinks) for their entire lives. Unlike most of her contemporaries, she refused to be meek and nice and instead went balls-to-the-wall for what she wanted. And anyone who stood in her way would end up a sad old dead cardinal. You might not like what she did, and you might not like her methods, but man have you ever got to respect the fact that she did not give up on her dream.
Also, she gave birth to Elizabeth I, so I guess you can just go ahead and thank Anne Boleyn for stuff like Shakespeare and Sir Francis Drake and those giant Elizabethan neck ruffs. Would you want to live in a world without giant Elizabethan neck ruffs? I didn’t think so. Anne Boleyn is the best, CASE CLOSED.
*Please note that Henry VIII actually had one of his dude friends employed as his “Groom of the Stool,” which meant that they had to wipe his ass whenever he took a shit. Just throwing that out there.
Tags: anne boleyn, anne thériault, hero is a better word than heroine, heroes, nicole roots for henry but life is a rich tapestry, royalty, the tudors
My favourite ‘tudor’ woman was Lady Jane Grey, the 9-day Queen.
I didn’t know about her until watching the movie! I like her too.
Jane Austen’s juvenile History of England describes her as “famous for reading Greek while other people were hunting….Whether she really understood that language or whether such a study proceeded only from an excess of vanity for which I beleive [sic] she was always rather remarkable, is uncertain.”
I want to go have margaritas with both of them, yes.
Too pious & too dogmatic for me but will agree the film gives her an awfully romantic haze which I fell in love with as well.
Lady Jane, the first de facto English Queen Regnant! I’ve loved her ever since I first learned of her. She is also my favorite Tudor (closely followed by Elizabeth of York, if for nothing else than her fabulous gable hood and being the inspiration for the design of the queen playing card).
TEAM ANNE OF CLEVES, MEETUP OVER HERE
I was just coming down here to say this! AB is obviously #1 in my book, but AoC def comes in second. She and Henry just looked at each other and basically peaced out in their own separate directions. I love that, and I respect it.
EXACTLY. AB wins in the “getting shit done” category but AoC wins in the “general life winningness good job” category.
Also she was played by Joss Stone in The Tudors so that counts toward her general awesomess too.
I feel like my attitudes towards the various wives are closely linked to my goodwill towards the actresses that played them on The Tudors.
She got the best deal of all the wives. Never had to sleep with him, got a nice little house out of it, got to keep her head and her dignity.
exactly! She got out alive and with a stipend, and she got away from her horrible brother back home.
The Annes in general were always my favorite. Anne Boleyn because well obviously. Anne of Cleaves for being one of the only ones to survive and REJECT Henry. By all regards, she just BAMF’d her way through history.
Reporting for duty!
#4?! Anne C. was robbed.
ROBBED. And Mallory agrees with us (see below) so clearly we are indisputably in the right here.
YES HELLO.
Lower ranked than Catherine Howard, my foot.
I mean, CATHERINE HOWARD? Really?
CATHERINE HOWARD WAS THE WORST ONE, HANDS DOWN.
I’m sorry, but the above list is just plain wrong.
that girl was a JOKE
Catherine HOWARD is a NINNY. A FOOLISH FOOLISH NINNY.
OBLIGATORY ANNE OF CLEVES “HARK A VAGRANT” COMIC
http://www.harkavagrant.com/index.php?id=348
ANNE OF CLEVES GABLES HOW HAVE I MISSED THIS BEFORE
DO YOU THINK HENRY AND I WILL BE BOSOM FRIENDS
NO HE SMELLS TOO BAD
PARTY CASTLE FOREVER
This is so unbelievably perfect. If I die of happiness now, I want this buried with me.
first the cantaloupe and now AoC. You have impeccable taste!
<3
Wait wait, did I miss roll call??
Never! Our numbers are rising by the minute. (Literally dozens of us! etc.)
I brought nametags, does anyone need a nametag?
I recently learned that Henry pulled the ol’ “let’s make Anne guess which dude in this room of hot dudes is her new husband” AND THEN SHE NATURALLY GOT IT WRONG BECAUSE HE WAS GROSS, and I identify with this so much.
ANNE OF CLEVES 5EVAH
I will not quibble with La Boleyn at numero uno, but Anne of Cleves is miles ahead of everyfuckingbody else. If I could go back in time I would go to parties at her house. If I could make a Tumblr full of nothing but Anne of Cleves gifs, I would.
Yeppppppp
Absolutely! AB wins for total radness, but AoC got out alive, and didn’t even have to nurse Henry in his dotage, like poor Catherine Parr (for whom I’ve always had a soft spot).
Catherine Parr got ripped off. By the time she came around, he had oozing leg sores and could barely walk. He was also EVEN GRUMPIER THAN USUAL. Outliving that man was the best reward she could have gotten.
My view of the six wives was totally formed by childhood reading of Margaret Irwin’s Young Elizabeth trilogy. Catherine Parr comes off as a wholly sympathetic figure, who gets dealt a pretty bad hand: nursing Aging Grumpy Henry, marrying Tom Seymour, who, at least emotionally and probably more than that, cheats on her with Elizabeth, and then dying in childbirth. And after she’d been such a good stepmother to Elizabeth, too.
I READ THAT TOO! It was my gateway drug into the six wives! She comes off really well in that.
YUP she deserves a much higher ranking for sure. I mean she basically was like “Peace out Henry I’m gonna never ever have sex with your royal grossness, live over here in Kent, pay my servants too much, drink and gamble a ton, and get fat and happy.” That’s the way to live your Tudor life, I tell ya.
My first thought exactly! How can AoC not be 2, at worst? She took what would have been a crushing rejection for most women of her time and rode it for the win.
“She spent her spare time skateboarding around and flipping off the pope.”
Yessssss dirtbag wives of Henry VIII
This was my favorite sentence (SO HARD TO CHOOSE) of the entire piece. Brilliant.
For me, this is tied with “Fuck your gender binary of crowns.”
how about just dirtbag history series, plz?
YES AGREE
JANE SEYMOUR WAS HISTORY’S FIRST MARY SUE
ANNE OF CLEVES SHOULD BE WAY HIGHER ON THIS LIST THIS LIST IS FUCKED UP
WRITE YOUR OWN LIST, ORTBERG
(sincerely, Anne the person who wrote this but whose stupid phone will only let her be logged in as her blog but who really does sincerely like Miss Of Cleves)
You cannot sincerely like her that much because you put CATHERINE HOWARD above her. HOWARD. I ASK YOU.
Howard, though, was pretty hilariously stupid and just wanted to have funfunfun!
I dunno man, I gotta give Catherine Howard props for her last words being “I die a Queen, but I would rather have died the wife of Culpeper.” That’s bold. Plus I think she was a witch?
I mean Anne of Cleves was cool but she wasn’t sleeping with half the court or casting spells. Is the thing.
I can’t get on the CH wagon–who decides that Culpeper (CULPEPER) is the hill they want to die on?
I’m down with the witch argument though. Still think her #3 spot is ridiculous, but I like the witch aspect.
Culpepper was a gross rapist – he literally raped a peasant woman in broad daylight in a public park and got off scott free b/c she was a nobody and omg THE RAGE – so that fact alone means that I can’t support Catherine Howard. Her judgement was beyond shitty.
But I mean realistically Anne of Cleves needs to swap for position #2 for managing to keep her head AND getting her own badass castle AND not having to stay married to Henry VIII
She was a homely genius, Anne of Cleves was.
Homely or not. Henry seemed to have weird taste.
Yes yes yes! Anne & Anne are without a doubt #1 & #2!
I, like the rest of the Toasties, have spent waaaaaay too much time reading about Anne Boleyn & my love for her knows no bounds.
Also, my one & only bar fight was a fight about the six wives. #nerdfight
my one & only bar fight was a fight about the six wives
I am all about the Elizabethan Ruffs
http://t.co/GG8dE0V3sB
We could totally make ruffs happen, with a properly organized effort.
I mean, tell me this doesn’t go with everything: https://www.etsy.com/listing/195049953/elizabetha…
Madge you are awesome! Thanks for lining my Etsy neck ruffs shop. SERIOUSLY. And for the record, AB is also my fave H8 wife.
This speaks to the part of me that spent ages 11-17 reading every book on Anne Boleyn I could get my hands on. And especially to the part of me that will never forgive Alison Weir for being SUCH A DICK about Anne in Six Wives of Henry VIII.
Has anyone read The Creation of Anne Boleyn? It’s all about how Anne Boleyn has been viewed throughout history, especially in pop culture, and it’s awesome. I really recommend it.
But also Anne of Cleves and Catherine Parr should both be higher on this list, because they were also awesome and managed not to die/be murdered.
C. Parr did have some questionable man-taste, though, it must be said. Thomas Seymour. ::shudder::
Truth. “Oh, I”m just tickling this tween. On her bed. No big, totally normal uncle interactions here.”
WHAT.
And then when she found out about it, instead of throwing Seymour the hell out, the THREW OUT ELIZABETH, WHAT.
“Can I marry Mary? No? Elizabeth? No to that too? Hey Catherine, whatcha doin?” (Flips out in attempt to get to Edward, shoots poor kid’s dog.)
I feel about this the way I feel about the Bluebeard apologists. “All you had to do was not go into the room! That’s absolutely the only reason a murderous abusive dude would murderate you! All the other wives obviously went into the murder room too; even the first one!”
Editing your behavior to comply with the dictates of an abuser is wise, but it doesn’t make that person better than someone who refused to do that.
That said, both Anne of Cleves and her no tolerance for the romantic bullshit that Henry expected and Parr and her much younger third husband are excellent.
That Creation of Anne Boleyn book is on my list! And it’s funny you mention Alison Weir (it’s funny this entire article was posted today, actually) because I just started reading Six Wives yesterday. I am preparing myself to feel some outrage at this point. I was already a little miffed at Weir’s treatment of Juana, Katherine A.’s sister, who was not insane but whose dude family members decided to portray her that way so that they could get the power. YOU FUCKED UP, WEIR.
Ahhhhhhh there’s a book about Juana that I wanted to read but forgot the title and/or author – please help me Toasties!
This is the one I read:
http://www.amazon.com/Sister-Queens-Tragic-Katherine-Castile/dp/0345516044
It was mostly very good!
Thanks!
Adding that to my list right now! Thanks Toasties!
For better coverage of Juana La Loca, check out Stuff You Missed in History Class!
http://www.missedinhistory.com/podcasts/why-was-j…
Well that’s going on the list posthaste.
Yay! It includes a baller interview with Natalie Dormer, if you’re into that. (Spoiler: I AM. I AM INTO THAT.)
Anne Weir has bizarre hangups about various historical figures and generally Cannot Be Trusted. (But I read all her books anyways. Except the one about Richard III ’cause I know it’ll piss me off.)
Have you read her book that’s specifically about Anne? I want to, but I’m also worried that it will just make me mad.
The Lady in the Tower? I thought it was decent – she seemed to be revisiting/reconsidering her previous work a bit.
I could not get very far in her Mary Boleyn book because I kept detecting irritation that The Other Boleyn Girl had put Mary Boleyn into some portion of the public’s consciousness and done it WRONG. Write your well-researched historical book, there is a place for it in the world, stop stressing about the fact that popular fiction has departed from the scanty facts about this long-dead person.
When I read Alison Weir’s book about Henry VIII and she asserted that Anne Boleyn was probably sleeping all around the French court because her mom and sister were both rumoured to be big ol’ slutbags and what more evidence do you NEED, huh? I put the book down and went “hmm, I don’t think this woman is a very good historian.
Then there’s her (fiction) book about Elizabeth which would be more forgivable what with being fiction, but she chose to take it in a plot direction that I CANNOT FORGIVE.
Thank you, Teresa!!! Spread the word…..
Oh, by the way, I am the author of The Creation of Anne Boleyn….and judging from comments on this page, I think many of you will like it, including The author of this irreverent piece.
HMMM WHICH PAIRING DOES THE ROYAL DICK LIKE BEST?
That’s amazing. I love this whole article. Also, have ye all read the theory that Henry had McLeod syndrome and that’s why his wives kept having stacks on stacks of miscarriages? Basically, its his own damn fault that he couldn’t get a healthy son (or many healthy kids, period) and, due to the way Kell-positivity works, after a woman gets pregnant the first time by Kell-positive man, her future pregnancies become very unlikely to be viable.
Oooh, that’s fascinating.
is this the same thing as rH factor?
From some quick googling, it looks as though they are similar in function but not actually the same? Sadly I am not a blood scientist, so I can’t be a whole lot of help!
That article is so interesting and MAN, babies used to just die constantly, didn’t they?
I WOULD HAVE BEEN SUCH A GOOD WIFE TO HENRY. He would have adored me, and I would have EXTRACTED all the Y chromosomes I needed in order to give him a bevy of fine sons, and we would have ridden horses and drunk mead and lived in joy and he would have bought me rubies the size of hen’s eggs and given titles to all my obscure male relatives.
ALL OF THESE WOMEN FAILED. At least Anne got him to throw off the shackles of Rome, tho.
I also would have had him kill that COLOSSAL TOOL, Thomas More, years sooner. The minute I showed up, I would have been: ice this dude, he is creepy and burns people but acts like he is the only person who has morals.
Ohhh when The Tudors tried to get me to feel bad for MOre by having him be played by Mr. Knightley I nearly threw things at the screen. YOU ARE NOT PITIABLE YOU ARE A MURDERER GO CHOKE ON UTOPIA YOU DICKSMACK.
Hilary Mantel NAILED IT.
Yeah, I’m sorry, but unless there is a primary source document under my nose I am going to hold Hilary Mantel as the source of all truth about any of this. (Possibly also even if there is a primary source document under my nose, because most of them are illegible and how can I be misplacing my trust when Mantel writes such lucid prose?)
Oh, if you want another anti-More book, The Autobiography of Henry VIII by Margaret George is very anti. (Unreliable narrator blah blah but he is totally reliable about More in this, 100%.)
That part where More is talking Latin at his wife ON PURPOSE because she won’t understand and he can be all “haha stupid female person” is just exactly why he is THE WORST.
I once wrote some response to A Man For All Seasons calling More a colossal dick (in more appropriate terms) and the teacher was like “no he was amazing what are you on about” and I did really badly on that assignment and that just increased my hatred for More.
He was the worst, and I love A Man For All Seasons, but Bolt backed the wrong goddamn pony.
Nothing against the play, just the horrible man it was about. So much against him.
Ughhh but what about the festering leg wound?
He would have been too busy in bed with me, effortlessly conceiving thousands of sons, to get that wound in the first place.
OK, as long as you have a plan!
yeah, the STINK?
I fully endorse this, except for one minor caveat: would you also have given us Liz the first? I’m thinking what needs to happen (500 years ago) is:
1. Nicole marries Henry
2. Nicole encourages Henry to introduce absolute primogeniture
3. Nicole gives the world Liz I or a good facsimile
4. Bevy of sons.
The best thing about all of Henry’s wives (aside from the symmetry of their names and the fact that the two he beheaded were related) is that everyone says that he divorced Anne Boyeln because she didn’t bear him a son, but Elizabeth I went on to become way more of a bad-ass monarch than his legitimate son and most of the rest of the kings of England. So, you know, take that gender essentialism.
I love the name thing. It’s like the murdery Ye Olde version of how Clark Kent only dates women whose initials are “LL”.
Lindsey Lohan?
I think you mean ALL of the rest of the kings of England. Except maaaybe Henry V, though he was kind of a dick.
#NotAllKings
I am not knowledgeable enough about all English monarchs to say whether or not she was better than ALL the kings, though certainly it would not take much work to convince me. But the only English monarch with the title “the Great” is Alfred. Who was only kinda English.
All my kingly knowledge comes by way of Shakespeare, Marlowe, and selected bits of Holinshed’s Chronicles. Which is a small, shaky platform for me to proclaim Bess Is Best, but I will do it, by god.
Hey now, Alfred was so English that he *created* England.
“nicole roots for henry”
what
what
am i really so exhausted that i am misinterpreting this?
I LOVE HIM
(hysterically) Nicole, any of the fine young chaps at court would have given you horses and mead. Whyyyy
Were they THE KING? Were they ordained by GOD to rule ENGLAND?
you could have encouraged your upstart noble to poison the nasty beheader and your chap could have claimed to have been ordained by god to rule England and France you could have had French wine AND mead AND INTRIGUE
Why would I want to be with some upstart noble in the first place? The young Henry was GORGEOUS like the SUN and I would have kept him that way always.
I forthwith denounce thee, and lay claim to the young upstart myself when time machines arrive.
And Joffrey is a great golden lion, we know.
…Except then he aged and started to look like Louie C.K. (although this fact actually probably supports your position!).
this is just some weird Commonwealth thing I could never really understand, right
“Man, why do all the awesome women want to date the tools? I’ve been MonarchFriendZoned ONCE AGAIN. He’ll only give her syphilis then behead her when he meets a younger woman without syphilis.”
Phillip of Spain, on Nicole’s thing for Henry VIII
Henry was a true romantic, and people do NOT get that right about him. I would have found him a series of milk-fed playthings to occupy him during my confinements, and if they DARED be rude to me at court they would have been sent packing, because he would have adored me.
The man had SO MANY EMOTIONS.
he was a syphilitic misogynist with a festering leg wound, gout, and a stupid beard, Nicole
He just needed the love of a good, almost-too-fertile woman who enjoyed bloodsports.
“I can CHANGE him, I just know it!”
It is THEY who tried to change him, instead of allowing him to be Henry.
NICOLE IS RIDING FOR HENRY AND I SUPPORT HER
I AM PRACTICING BEING SUPPORTIVE OF MY FELLOW LADIES EVEN WHEN I DON’T UNDERSTAND THEIR SUPER-WEIRD CHOICES
If anyone ever wants to know the essence of The Toast, I’m just going to direct them to this thread.
I haven’t really read The Toast before, but now I want to have drinks with all of you. So many feelings.
I just finished a War of the Roses kick in which I read a couple of non fiction books [as well as watching The White Queen (and read that whole series) so super scientific] & although I still think Henry VIII is a dick I COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND why he was because my god, his father was just terrible & that whole history made everyone CRAZYPANTS.
Also, inbreeding and lead poisoning.
I said I did not name my son after Henry VIII but guess what, I lied like a Tudor divorce court.
SECONDED, from the girl with Henry and Edward-named sons.
I love this thread so much. Tudor nerd forever.
Have we all seen the Historic Royal Palaces YouTube series on Which Wife Was the Best Wife?
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5C3B98439…
According to this line of reasoning, I am going to go with Catherine Parr.
You’re welcome.
I am also QUITE fond of Catherine Parr. Secret Protestant, cared for gross old King wounds without complaint, eventually married the dude SHE loved (even though he maybe wasn’t a great choice). Not so great at keeping the King’s daughter from being deflowered by said dude, but other than that…
I am named after Catherine Parr so I feel like I should stick up for her. Go Catherine!
My theory on why Elizabeth super-smartly was all “Noooo, I’m married to my COUNTRY I couldn’t POSSIBLY marry a MAAAAN” is that she saw what C. Parr got when she married for power (festering leg wound) AND when she married for love (festering creeper) and was like NOPE NEITHER OF THOSE.
BESS4EVA
I like this theory a lot a lot
Hell yes.
“Hmm. My paternal figure ditched his first wife, killed my mother so he could marry her lady in waiting, ditched his fourth wife, killed his fifth wife, treated his sixth wife (who was awesome) like total crap…
…okay, so WHY am I supposed to get married?”
“Also, every single man I could possibly marry is an idiot who’s probably going to ruin his entire country. This is…seriously? Every single one of them, a drooling moron? How? You guys, how are the Crowned Heads of Europe this useless?”
Butbutbut she enabled Thomas Seymour’s abuse of Elizabeth! (You could argue that he convincingly played it all of as “oh no honey, this is just regular fatherly horseplay” except Kat Ashley was also there and went “UH-UH THIS DUDE IS BAD NEWS” but Katherine just laughed her off when she said as much. Badly done, Katherine!)
I think she was in serious denial. She loved the man (WHY?!), she’d gone through so much before she finally got to be with him, and there was no way she was going to admit the truth to herself after all that. Horrible for Elizabeth. Also, pretty sad for Katherine that she’d fallen in love with such a douche.
EXCUSE ME Anne of Cleves should be number TWO, she not only got to leave her unhappy life as an unmarried woman but she got an annulment from Henry and then got to be rich and independent and have her own place.
#WINNING
This is not quite as good as Bring Up the Bodies, but it comes close.
Everything I know about Henry’s wives I learned from Hilary Mantel.
…I don’t know very much about Henry’s wives.
I mean, as sources go, SHE AIN’T BAD.
Oh, but I always loved Catherine Parr! She outlived Henry, wrote books, remarried for love, and was an intellectual role-model to Elizabeth! (Even if then things between her husband and Elizabeth got icky.)
Fellow Team Catherine Parr member checking in!
Also Team CatParr!!
Here!
Another one checking in for Team CatParr. She also served as Queen Regent while Henry was away on a campaign–that was how smart she was and how much he trusted her, even if he was too willing to believe every Papist enemy she had who whispered nasty things about her heretical beliefs. She managed to outwit those guys (like Chancellors Wriothesley and Rich, the assholes who personally racked Anne Askew and make Dick Cheney look like Albert Schweitzer) and survive his reign. If it wasn’t for her unwise love for Tom Seymour, she might have lived a lot longer than she did. But that actually humanizes her for me–she may have been a serious, intelligent, religious woman, but in the end she couldn’t resist that bad boy. She also was largely responsible for the educations of Edward, Mary and Elizabeth, and talked Henry into restoring Mary and Elizabeth to the succession, so we have her to thank for Elizabeth I’s reign as much as anyone else. The only downside? We also have her to blame for the fact that Bloody Mary ever made it to the throne. But the Mary she knew was just a bitter young woman who had lost her mother early and been screwed over by her dad. How could she have known the girl would turn into a bloodthirsty Catholic obsessive?
Oh, and I forgot to add–she saved Cambridge University when Henry wanted to get rid of it!
I was so obsessed with Anne Boleyn as a child, I read our library’s novelization of “Anne of the Thousand Days.”
Is it this thing with history classes, where you’re sitting in school and someone reads aloud from the textbook “and Henry VIII had six wives,” and you’re suddenly “I WANT TO KNOW WHO THESE WOMEN ARE BECAUSE THEY HAVE STORIES DAMMIT” except you don’t say DAMMIT because you’re nine years old?
Yes, yes, y-e-s
That is totally A Thing.
It’s definitely a thing! Along with the English class version of “I would like to read a book with a female protagonist, but apparently boys ‘won’t want to read that’ even in an AP English class with thirteen damn girls and one boy.”
That boy was even a cool boy, who read books with female protagonists in his free time! And yet…
What’s wrong with these teachers? They should challenge the dumb ideas of their dumb teenaged students, and make boys read about girls!!!!!!!!!!
I love my high school English teacher who made us all read Rebecca, and also insisted that we all specifically read the edition with the flowery purple and pink cover.
Just popping in to say (a) loved this post, writing was wonderful and (b) the commenting has been GLORIOUS.
Can we please pause and marvel for a moment at the SEVEN YEAR GAME?! That is some strung out slow burn seduction.
The greatest crime of The Tudors was that the show moved TOO FAST on Anne and Henry.
seriously, either Henry was revolting (entirely possible) or she has got some iron-clad will power. I’m pretty stoked if I hold someone off for like, a month.
I always assumed she was History’s Best Stealth Handjob-Giver.
where her extra pinky finger may have come in HANDY?
A+
She was all about the French technique (bjs) if I remember correctly…
Henry did also sleep with her sister, so perhaps she had help in terms of insight into how to keep him strung (that is Phillipa Gregory’s theory, anyway).
Also, I imagine that if you are king and you always get to have everything you want, being told “no” has a certain allure.
She seriously should have been deified.
I once read a biography of Elizabeth where every time someone questioned her womanly queening she’s basically cut them down with, yeah I’m a woman but I’m my father’s daughter, remember him? And it would work. And every time I’d be like, hmmmm are you an easily manipulated, obese, gouty, violent man-child? Or are you a smart as fuck badass? I THINK YOU ARE YOUR MOTHER’S DAUGHTER.
Right?!?!?!?! I always see Elizabeth as being much more like her mother – partially because she’s smart enough to know to compare herself to her father instead!
Can we talk about Elizabeth’s speech to the troops at Tilbury before she sends them off to defeat the Spanish Armada? Where she rides out in a motherfucking BREASTPLATE? Heart and stomach of a BAMF KING.
OH MAN. I read the stupid Belgariad before I knew jack and or shit about Elizabeth, and that whole wood nymph queen demanding breast-shaped armor before going out to address her army thing pissed me way off in retrospect, because DAMN Elizabeth was magnificent and they just made C’Nedra (sp?) look kinda stupid. (I have no idea if Elizabeth’s speech was Eddings’ acknowledged inspiration, but…come on.)
Also I read those books when I was like eight, so I might be a little off. Still though. Preeeeettty confident that there are very few fictional characters who even come close to Elizabeth’s real life badassery.
Part of me wants “What Would Elizabeth Do?” jewelry, and the other part of me is like, well, the answer would often involve beheadings and fire, so maybe not totally applicable to every day life. And yet still I want it, even though I hate jewelry. In conclusion: Elizabeth fangirl forever.
I would wear and gift WWED jewelry, wall hangings, temporary tattoos, and tote bags. Because I think that her first instinct was usually Fire and Beheadings, she actually Got Shit Done through super-subtle politicking and rhetoric.
I know, I know. Mary, Queen of Scots. But she anguished over that, you guys. It was not an impulsive execution. The damn Jesuits kept sending assassins for her and Mary Stuart was a flashpoint for that.
I am totally down with the execution of Mary who IIRC wasn’t totes innocent of all the assassination attempts? But Elizabeth felt bad for her because she’d been in that same situation the entire time Bloody Mary was on the throne and, while we’re at it, for a large part of her childhood?
AND Elizabeth strung along half the monarchs of Europe *just like her mama did* and then in the end was like lol no, keeping my throne, thanks.
Goddamn. Just so awesome. I mean, ignoring the penchant for burning heretics alive, which I am embarrassingly willing to overlook.
This. My interior monologue refers to that speech all the time. It might be the closest thing I have to a mantra.
THIS IS MY FAVOURITE THING IN ALL OF 16TH CENTURY ENGLISH LIT AND I HAVE A MINOR IN THAT
“I may have the body of a weak and feeble woman, but I have the heart and stomach of a CONCRETE ELEPHANT!” *swig*
“First I’m going to have a little drinkie… then I’m going to execute the whole bally lot of you!”
Tied for The Best Martial Speech In The English Language with the Saint Crispin’s Day speech from Henry V.
Oh yeah, definitely, but she COULD NOT say that out loud.
Oh yeah, for sure. Just vicarious frustration on the Boleyn women’s behalf.
Hells yes.
This is perfect for my reading of the past few days which has been 1) The Autobiography of Henry VIII with Notes by his Fool Will Somers 2) The Six Wives of Henry VIII 3) Wolf Hall 4) Bring Up the Bodies
(I have been so helpful moving this past weekend).
The list is egregiously wrong, though. Anne of Cleves should be 2, Catherine Howard is definitely 6.
Ahhh this makes me wish I had kept in touch with a lovely history professor who taught “Elizabeth I” and now teaches “Henry VIII & his 6 Wives” at her new school and I am JEALOUS of you Eastern Kentuckians. This entire post is giving me life today, although yes Anne of Cleves as number 3.
Eastern Kentucky is not very far from me at all, I have a sudden urge to pilgrimage to these classes.
I also took a Elizabeth I course in college! It was exactly the thing I needed in that moment, and steeled me against the too many things that winter.
My class was also in winter (well, spring semester, but basically winter)! I feel asleep a lot, which I feel badly about, but the combination of after-lunch plus too-warm room plus sweatshirt = snooze time.
Check it out, I think you’ll like it!!! http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0547328184?ie=UT….
Susan Bordo I LOVE your book! Totally devoured it. It’s so great to see you commenting here.
I love that you love it!!! And I love this site, which I just discovered. Would love to write for it, and will check it out for sure. I just love the spirit here…..
I once had a $5 party psychic tell me that I was Anne Boleyn in the past life. Which: AMAZING. But the catch is that I look like Natalie Dormer. I’m not as pretty or sexy as she is, I just legit resemble her. How funny to have a job where you tell people they were once historical figures played by their celebrity lookalikes. There are A LOT believe who believe that they were Anne Boleyn in a past life. I am not one of them. But to them, I say, NEENER NEENER.
Why all the Catherine Howard hate, people? She was just a kid!
SHE STILL SHOULD HAVE KNOWN BETTER.
“Culpeper” is a stupid name and as a shallow teenager she should have rejected him for that alone.
(I dunno, I’m just making things up now.)
But what great last words. Way to diss your royal husband!
“I die a queen, but I would rather die the wife of Culpeper!” BURN.
She did go out pretty much flipping Ye Olde Double Bird, didn’t she? But even so.
AGREE
Also, I’ve read alllllll of the Philippa Gregory Tudor novels
*Creed arms into a sea of haters*
OK Philippa Gregory was my JAM when I was in high school. I recently re-read “The Other Boleyn Girl” and enjoyed it immensely.
…Remember the Wideacre trilogy? Sibling incestual BDSM? Man. Classic stuff right there. But I looooooved it!
The third one is a legit fun read!
I have re-read The Other Boleyn Girl so many times that it was personally insulting when the movie ended up being so terrible.
I just finally watched it this week and am furious at how bad it was. I think the main problem was trying to fit everything into a 2 hour movie. It should have been a mini-series.
I think my favorite part of the horribleness was when they opened the movie on Mary’s wedding, then forgot to mention it when that guy died, and then she gets another romance abruptly. Some of the rest of it – like the sudden addition of the rape – was terrible in terms of ruining the story I loved, but that was an affront to linear storytelling overall.
That was the worst continuity ever. All the other stuff they jammed in there or just made up (Mary raises Elizabeth? What?) and they cut Cumberbatch’s death scene. Which would have cleared up some things.
THAT WAS CUMBERBATCH? Huh!
YES! After he became my boyfriend I tried to watch the movie again but it was still terrible.
I LOVE Phillippa Gregory, have spent good money on her books, and anyone who wants to make fun can SUCK IT.
Have you read the series about John Tradescant? It is roughly 50% gardening and 50% Boning the King, if memory serves me
Phillipa Gregory books in order of awesomeness:
1. The Other Boleyn Girl
2. Meridon
3. The King’s Fool
4. The Virgin’s Lover
5. Virgin Earth
6. The rest of the Tudor Books
7. Wideacre
….
-1. The Cousin’s War Series
-2. A Respectable Trade
-1000000 Alice Hartley’s Happiness
“Wolsey was stripped of all his titles and sent to Yorkshire. The next year he was accused of treason, and on his way back to stand trial London he died.”
This fact becomes remarkable in context (and I can’t believe she didn’t include this) when you recall who Anne had Henry send to announce the stripping of his titles – motherfucking Henry Percy.
Just – the subtle, but unmistakable, “fuck youuuuuuu” to Wolsey there is SO HUGE and that, right there, is why I love shit like this. FUCK YEAH TUDOR ENGLAND, FUCK YEAH ANNE BOLEYN
YES THAT IS THE BEST PART. It’s such a bitch move, I love it.
Yeah I really admire her for that lowdown dirty shit. I can only hope that I would have done the same (and then not been beheaded, of course).
no mention of her extra pinky finger?!? nothing solidifies one’s number 1 position like an extra digit or limb.
Nothing says badass like a witch’s teat for suckling the devil (aka extra finger).
Oh let’s not forget the part where Anne also had Henry take Hampton Court (Wolsey’s super dope palace) and then put her face all over the chapel and stuff.
God damn it, I cannot read this right now because I’m finishing revising an article on Tudor/Stewart drama and I CAAAAAAAAN’T RIGHT NOW. Please be here later to talk smack about Mary and totally crush on Elizabeth, ok?
Ugh, MARY. Horrible.
mary = the worst!
elizabeth = the best!!
let’s talk about how dreamy she is and also this: http://www.harkavagrant.com/index.php?id=300
SHOOOM
Hey, no shitting on Mary Tudor, please! She doesn’t deserve the soubriquet “Bloody,” or all the other crap Protestant historians have dumped on her for centuries. (It’s doubtful that she slaughtered more Protestants in a five-year reign than Elizabeth did Catholics). They just can’t forgive her ever for marrying Philip of Spain. Much as I love Elizabeth and all, she was far from perfect, and several of her most important accomplishments (such as stabilizing the currency, seeking out commercial opportunities) were started during Mary’s reign.
I will not have our site become a den of Papist apologism!
ROMISH MISCHIEF!!
“*Please note that Henry VIII actually had one of his dude friends employed as his “Groom of the Stool,” which meant that they had to wipe his ass whenever he took a shit. Just throwing that out there” — interestingly enough, the existence of such a job figured as a major plot point in a YA novel I read recently (“The Kingdom of Little Wounds”).
Little wounds = having to wipe a murderous king’s butt multiple times a day?
PLEASE LET THIS BE A SERIES!
I came down here to write exactly that! Pleeeeeeeeeeeeease?
I WOULD LOVE THAT
” And Anne was like, “Fuck your gender binary of crowns.” ”
DYING
I love this. And A+ comments, too.
That part where More is talking Latin at his wife ON PURPOSE because she won't understand and he can be all "haha stupid female person" is just exactly why he is THE WORST.
I think you mean ALL of the rest of the kings of England. Except maaaybe Henry V, though he was kind of a dick.
My theory on why Elizabeth super-smartly was all "Noooo, I'm married to my COUNTRY I couldn't POSSIBLY marry a MAAAAN" is that she saw what C. Parr got when she married for power (festering leg wound) AND when she married for love (festering creeper) and was like NOPE NEITHER OF THOSE.
BESS4EVA
Here!
Ok, hi, I live in this comment section now. Let’s meet back here every afternoon at 2 to further rate Awesome Early Moderns, ok?
Tomorrow: Mary Wroth!
yessss let’s talk about urania (the library is never getting my copy of this back ever)
At school we had to draw pictures of Lady Jane Grey about to be executed. I also drew *BONUS* Jane Seymour dead in bed.
and he wrote 'Utopia', send him straight to HELLLLLLL.
Team Catherine Of Aragon!!!!!!!!
– First woman ambassador in European history
– Advocated for women’s education & made women’s education much more popular
– Was in charge of England when Henry went to France during a war with Scotland, rode out in armor while pregnant to encourage soldiers to fight the Scottish
I want a trashy pop culture version of THIS Catherine of Aragon instead of her just praying all the time.
-Was SPANISH and got the English to absolutely adore her.
– BONED ARTHUR, PROBABLY
Completely gets the shaft by being cast 10-15 years older than Henry in every adaptation. They were six years apart in age!
– After war with Scotland, was going to send Henry the King of Scotland’s head by post.
– When people told her to back down and go into a nunnery, was all ‘OH YES, I’LL HEAD INTO A NUNNERY WHEN HENRY-BOY BECOMES A MONK. NO? RIGHT THEN’
*both of these facts come from Hilary Mantel. If they’re not true, I want them to be.
I am SO PLEASED that everyone agrees that Anne of Cleves should be rated much higher. King’s Sister for everything.
“whenever he took a shit” Which wasn’t really often enough for good health, I hear. And although it can’t have been pleasant when it did happen, Groom of the Stool was a coveted position because it meant you got to talk to him for…well, let’s say several minutes, minimum…all alone.
I got into the Tudors when I was wee because my parents and I would all watch David Starkey’s Six Wives series on the history channel, and then years later I found out that David Starkey is a gross asshole misogynist who thinks women shouldn’t write about history because we have cooties and a little bit of me died.
(for the record, Anne Boleyn > Catherine Howard > Anne of Cleves > Katherine of Aragon > Catherine Parr > Jane Seymour. I always feel the need to stick up for poor Kitty Howard because she was basically molested as a child by her music teacher and honestly didn’t know better than to just sex it up all over the place. I HOPE ANNE WAS NICE TO HER IN HEAVEN. Like an afterlife coach.)
I swear to GOD ON HIGH every time I come on the Toast I am reaffirmed that I have found my people. And it’s you crazy misandry-spewing history-ranking fem-slashing broads. Sorry, had to be said. *straightens lapels*
Ahem. ANYWAY…Anne Boleyn is tops for eternity. And then I agree with the masses- CLEAVES. So much for Cleaves. I mean, if you had to choose who’s life to live, would it be Anne’s glorious shining moments of bitch slapping the patriarchy followed by a quick drop of the sword, or would it be other Anne’s quieter bitch slap of the patriarchy and then retirement to YOUR OWN PALACE and quiet life of excess and decadent hedonism (I assume).
I will devour every article/novel/biography of the Tudors, and even though I know what happens there is always that slow-mo “Ohhhhhhhhh noooooooooooooo,” after Anne Boleyn and Henry VIII get married. GET THE FUCK OUT OF THERE, THE CALL IS COMING FROM INSIDE THE CASTLE
so what you are saying is that anne boleyn and margaery tyrell are in fact the same person and it is not at all random that they are both played by natalie dormer
cool, super cool
Margaery Tyrell is like a weird blend of Anne and Catherine, because the whole “Marrying this king/almost-king, oh he died, well never mind we didn’t have sex so I can marry another one” thing is doing it Aragon style.
My dream is that through some time-travelling wizardry Anne Boleyn, Catherine of Aragon, and Anne of Cleves would team up to smash down the patriarchy and use their collective genius to establish a new world order in the shape of a matriarchal triumvirate.
Would read this graphic novel.
Holy shit. Why doesn’t this exist? Must employ graphic novelist who will accept payment in plates of nachos and high fives. Who do we know?
This post is everything. Agree about Anne of Cleves, though. Like what if she made herself like horsey on purpose because then she could get major bank and rank and no gross guys sexing her because let’s be honest henry viii was not jonathan rhys meyers.
I need to brush up on my Tudor books before I can properly rate all six wives. My personal favourite of that period (or century) was Mary, Queen of Scots from the other side of the border. I feel like she got all the best historical novels. Mostly I’m just fascinated by all her ladies in waiting. Ladies in waiting get all the sex.
This is the fucking best Anne Boleyn article I’ve ever read. CASE CLOSED, bitches.
And now I have to re-read Wolf Hall and Bring Up the Bodies. THANKS.
Basically just really sad someone wrote this article before I did. AB for LIFE! The fact that Henry’s wives appear on the Toast from time to time just make me love this site the most.
I want to stay on this thread always. More Tudor articles, please!
TOTALLY AGREE.
ANNE OF CLEVES SHOULD BE HIGHER, THOUGH.
Anne of Cleves: Ugh, marrying Henry VIII, better get my affairs in order and tell all my friends I Iove them.
Henry: Hey, hey, sexy lady, thought I’d just barge into your room, everyone loves it when I do that: LET’S DANCE.
Anne: EW WHO IS THIS CREEPY HUGE WEIRDO HITTING ON ME, GET LOST, LOSER, I’M CONTEMPLATING MY IMMINENT MARRIAGE/DEATH.
Henry: A — a woman did not look pleased to see me. What is this, Cromwell. I no longer understand the world.
Cromwell: It’s … possibly the part where she didn’t know you were the King.
Anne: Oh, shit.
Henry: You DARE to not fancy me? NO. IT IS I WHO DO NOT FANCY YOU. Yeah, you WISH you could get a piece of this hot ulcerating 48-year-old action.
Anne: You’re … right. I am nowhere near … hot enough for you. Oh… no. I was so looking forward to marrying the enormous psychopath twice my age. I’m gonna need Richmond and Hever Castle to get over this.
Henry: Done *flounces*.
Anne: Laters bitches off to enjoy my castles, now.
Cromwell: I am so fucked.
Crying with laughter. This reads like the script of a Hark, A Vagrant! comic. Which is about the highest praise there is.
I’m the only Catherine of Aragon fan, apparently. Lonely over here.
The most favourite!
eta: my avatar is a Disnified Anne Boleyn I found on Google!
please write about all the wives!
Some histories and some novels do the “raging bitch” portrayal, yes, but a LOT of them are quite the opposite, and this isn’t a new development. She was starring in plays beginning in the 1600s, and by the nineteenth century she was (in Protestant circles, anyway) established as having been essentially a heroic religious martyr all for the cause of Protestantism. By the twentieth century, she’d become a dashing adventuress, and now in the twenty-first century quite a few novels are portraying her as you are: someone who was at heart a 21st century feminist (just like in the 20th century, most Annes were at heart a sort of real-life Amber St Clare and in the 19th century she was at heart a religious martyr who just happened to share a lot of opinions with the up-to-date people of 1830). There are quite a few novels about her which run with just the version of her story which you’re writing here, in fact.
I went to a historical reenactment once where it was some poor actor's job to play the "groom of the stool." Apparently it was a huge honor; very few people got that close to the king and lived.
I am not convinced that Anne wanted to marry the king, she didn’t want to follow in her sister’s footsteps and be one of his many mistresses, sent off to live in some backwater married to a nobody, mother to the king’s bastard. She did the best she could under the circumstances, Henry had the power to take what he wanted and right then he wanted her. Woolsey worked hard to make sure the king got what he wanted as did his other people and Anne got her own back at them when she could. I think she was doomed from the start, Henry always wanted what he didn’t have so by holding him off as long as she did, Anne extended her power, but as soon as she gave in that was the end. Katherine of Aragon lasted so long because she never objected to his affairs. If she had accepted annulment, Henry would have taken care of her for the rest of her life and history would have been very different. She could not testify what she truly believed to be a lie and died in poverty. A brave woman. Anne of Cleves managed to survive and get a pretty good deal. She did not have to live with a man who had by then become a parody of the handsome, intelligent and athletic young man who had taken the throne so long before. She should be higher on your list. Katherine Parr did get stuck with the short end of the stick, a sick old man who smelled up the room. She was more a nurse than a wife, something she probably was very thankful for. Henry died before his paranoia got bad enough to kill her. To place Catherine Howard ahead of her is a disservice. Catherine was probably guilty of the crimes she was accused of, Henry didn’t have to have people tortured for that trial. She wasn’t too bright and managed to leave too many clues of her misdeeds. Poor Jane gave Henry the son he craved and died doing it, becoming the only woman he aver loved. Or so he said as he went off to bed someone else. And out of all that we got a new denomination, interesting movies and a whole lot of jokes. Oh yeah, a great Herman’s Hermits song.
Nope I too am Catherine's fan…. I loved when she had that "haha bitch, fuck you, my family is not letting you take my place" to Anne Boleyn when Rome was sacked and the pope became a prisoner of the Emperor! That was great!
LOVED this article. Team Anne all the way. I think Cleopatra had a bad rap too, but was actually a BADASS!!