Open Thread In Lieu Of Link Roundup

by Mallory Ortberg · May 24, 2016

She’s still in Canada! Have at it, chums! More content to follow.

Mallory is an Editor of The Toast.

1,069 Comments

  1. alliana07 +77

    Today in (Feminist) History! [Archive]

    There is no one stand-out event or person to discuss today, so you get FOUR for the price of one instead:

    • On this day in 1870 was the birth of Ynez Enriquetta Julietta Mexia, a Mexican-American botanist who was the most accomplished female plant collector of her time. She was known for her collection of plants from Mexico and South America, and discovered the genus of Compositae. She discovered several species named after her, including Mimosa mexiae, and a genus named Mexianthus (a genus of Asteraceae, flowering plants).

    • On this day in 1899 was the birth of Suzanne Lenglen, a French tennis player who won 31 Championship titles (between 1914-1926), and was one of the first international female sports celebrities (and the first female tennis celebrity). She was nicknamed La Divine (the Divine One) by the French Press, and her record included: 241 titles, a 181 match-winning streak, and a 341-7 match record (97.99% wins).

    • On this day in 1901, the birth of Queen Victoria of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. She inherited the throne at 18, and reigned for over 63 years. She was the longest reigning Monarch in Britain until she was recently surpassed by her Great-Great Granddaughter, Elizabeth II, who has currently reigned for 64+ years. Queen Victoria’s era of reign was known as the Victorian era– a period of cultural, scientific, industrial, political, and military change and growth, as well as the great expansion of the empire. Her nine children with her husband, Prince Albert, were married across Europe, bearing 42 grandchildren and earning her the nickname of the “Grandmother of Europe”.

    • On this day in 1930, Amy Johnson became the first female pilot to fly to Australia from Britain. The plane she used during this flight can be found now in the Science Museum in London, and in recognition of her achievement she received the Harmon Trophy, and was honored with the No. 1 civil pilot’s licence under Australia’s 1921 Air Navigation Regulations. In the 1930s, she set numerous flying records either solo, or with her husband. She flew in the Air Transport Auxiliary in World War II, and died during a ferry flight.

    1. HelenaCosimaSarah +18

      Thank you so much for doing these! I look forward to them each day.
      Small typo in this one: 1901 is the year Queen Victoria died, not the year she was born. I read that one and briefly thought my knowledge of history was even worse than I’d thought!

      1. alliana07 +6

        You’re welcome! And whoops… unfortunately I can’t edit it now, but thanks! I think I must have accidentally just typed the death date. TOO MANY DATES.

      1. theburnersmydestination +10

        Damn, I’ve found my new girl crush. Bad-ass pilot AND those looks? Slain. Also she looks like she is capable of major eyebrow arching, which is super important for the snarky conversations that are the basis of all my relationships.

        1. alliana07 +12

          RIGHT? She looks like she would stride around giving mysterious dark-lipsticked smiles and doing slow, epic eyebrow arches as she tosses out a snarky reply and then hops into an airplane and yes, please.

    3. BiadeMedici +9

      So I went through the archive last night and I just want to tell you how inspiring these are — fiercely determined women, making lives and names from what they love.

    4. owlbrick +8

      Amy Johnson. As an amateur historian and a professional aviation person, I gotta say, she just checks *all* my boxes.

      Women in the golden age of flying were hugely badass, and I think a good case could be made for their role in helping to kick off modern feminism. They demonstrated irrefutably that skill, knowledge and bravery were what were required for pioneering feats, not genitalia. You mentioned Jackie Cochran the other day, and Earhart of course; but also Amy Johnson, Bessie Coleman, Katherine Cheung, Pancho Barnes, Beryl Markham… the list goes on and on.

    5. Hannah Richards +1

      This is all very good and lovely, but I gotta disagree to a certain extent with the inclusion of Her Imperial Majesty Queen Victoria, Empress of India, etc etc. She was one of history’s most notorious and most recent colonialists, responsible for many millions of deaths, a part of the redrawing of borders which has led to further unrest and war, and was a slave owner besides.
      I just don’t think we ought to honor her so much? Maybe she was actually a ghastly, selfish conqueror, is all I’m saying.
      But I mean, total ace on the flying ace portion! (ahaha, you see what i did there)

  2. NicoleCliffe +69

    GORD DOWNIE IS DYING AND I AM GLAD TO BE IN CANADA TO SHARE MY GRIEF WITH MY PEOPLE

    also I wrote about my God thing and the link is about seven Gord Downie tweets down my timeline

    1. NicoleCliffe +13

      1. Scared
      2. Bobcaygeon
      3. Music at Work (I’m so basic)
      4. Ahead by a Century
      5. Courage

        1. winterbymorning +5

          I need Pretend and Nautical Disaster and The Luxury and… [insert endless list of songs] on that list.

          when will 2016 stop taking away all our beloved musicians

          1. AmyEntropy +4

            I’ve been afraid of losing Leonard Cohen, I never thought Gord Downie would go first!
            Two songs I don’t see mentioned yet are Locked In The Trunk Of A Car and Blow At High Dough.
            A media source on Twitter invited people to submit their memories of the Hip, so I tweeted mine, and now they want me to call them and give them the full story.

        2. dorianneemmerton +3

          I am also only a garden variety fan, but I need a list that includes Boots or Hearts.

          who is next who is next I’m so afraid

      2. loosechange +8

        1. Ahead by a Century/Bobcaygeon dead heat
        2. Poets
        3. Wheat kings.

        No other band gives me that same gut-twisting nostalgic emotion that I totally crave. Bobcaygeon and Ahead by a Century cut me open in a way that’s entirely embarassing.

        1. whollyword +2

          POETS.

          I have never lived in Canada, but I lived in Buffalo NY a while, and ransacked the Canadian imports section of my music store when money allowed.

          I am sad alongside you today.

      3. beachlass +2

        Every time I think about this, I my throat closes and my eyes tear up.

        NO.

      4. tidepool +2

        1. Wheat Kings
        2. Fiddler’s Green
        3. New Orleans Is Sinking
        4. Nautical Disaster
        5. Fireworks

    2. miafarradaily +24

      Nicole I read your God thing: it was amazing and totally mirrored my God thing too- what is it about God things that rob one of chill?

      Speaking of A Life Less Chilled, I recently watched the Invictus Games coverage and if ever there was a sporting event made to break people’s hearts open and scrape their insides out with blunt spoons it was that one. Amazing ex-service people? Doing sports things? Occasionally accompanied by animals? Chill left me and was never seen again.

    3. speakingofcake +11

      I read your God thing and it’s very lovely and moving. Great photo too!

    4. protocoach +12

      I’m just realizing now how many Canadians I apparently follow on Twitter, because there are a lot of people there who are INCREDIBLY SAD, and I am sitting here reading this thread/this specific tweet:

      “I am not even a deep cuts type of fan, just a garden variety one: Scared, Bobcaygeon, Ahead by a Century, My Music at Work, Courage, etc.”
      – Nicole Cliffe (@Nicole_Cliffe)

      and I am baffled. I am sorry, Canadians, I do not know who this is, but I know how terrible it is when a favorite musician is sick or dying.

    5. paisleyLo +12

      Nooooo! HEARTBROKEN.

      Growing up in WNY and working at a bookstore, the Tragically Hip were the only band we could play in-store that all the employees could agree on; the goth girl, the basic bro, the retired librarian, everyone LOVED the Hip.

      Now I’m extra sad that I never got to see them live.

    7. winterbymorning +7

      This awful news reminded me that one of my many pipe dreams is to visit all the places mentioned in Tragically Hip songs (unless there’s one about going to the moon or something) . I think this is probably not terribly realistic because I’m not big on road trips to small Canadian towns, but it’s a nice idea.

      1. AmyEntropy +4

        It is a nice idea. Their hometown of Kingston named a street after them, visit it and call it good? You’ve already visited the high school room “Where the walls are lined all yellow, grey and sinister /
        Hung with pictures of our parents’ prime ministers”, everyone has been there.

    8. bookwormV +24

      I read your God thing yesterday! It was lovely but also filled me with terror and anxiety because apparently that is how I react to religious stuff? (Seriously, the thought of that happening to me, as a lifelong atheist, fills me with genuine panic; my mum helpfully reassured me that she would still love me if it did. BUT STILL.)

      1. bookwormV +27

        (Do other people react like this to religion stuff? It makes me feel like a terrible Toastie – life is a rich tapestry, etc. – but the thought of becoming religious, or the thought of people I know doing so, causes massive amounts of anxiety and distress. I don’t even have any religion-related trauma; I am just really, really uncomfortable with it.)

        1. lemonadefish +12

          I do not usually have huge anxiety about this sort of thing, but Nicole’s journey does kind of freak me out! OMG what if it happens to meeeee!?!! (Nicole I read your piece and it was very lovely.)
          I had a crisis of non-faith once when my Christian boyfriend died, but after thorough examination, I determined that I do not, indeed, have any faith. But what if I was wrong then? I have been toying with taking the baby to UU services to see what we think of it, but it seems like a slippery slope…

          1. airotciv39 +5

            If it’s of any help in your decision-making, I just attended a UU service where the kiddos (8th graders?) got confirmed and 2 out of the 3 that gave little speeches were like “I don’t believe in God, but I believe in science/compassion/kindness” and the congregation seemed very down with it.
            I’m also in the not-caring-about-God camp and grew up in a conservative religious area where Jesus popped up all the damn time (not literally, though lots of people were prepping hard for that day), and I feel reasonably confident that nobody in the UU church is going to Jesus-ambush me.

        2. bread_and_roses +10

          Not an atheist, but I used to have this reaction to Christianity specifically. I’m Jewish, and there’s this whole narrative of Christianity, like, GETTING you, and that would fuck my life up a lot.

          I am less worried about it now, but when I was a kid it was a big concern.

      2. CatfoodHairnets +9

        Me. I do. I have so many religion issues. I have known so many awful religious people I move a lot and have ignored some promising potential friends when i found out they had become religious as adults. I just assume they are NOT MY PEOPLE. Though i have lifelong friends who grew up in religious households and i do not care that they mostly believe. I dunno, I think it’s because I believe they are brainwashed at an early age when they couldn’t do anything about it I guess. So judgmental.

        Nicole is cool though. if she can be cool and religious I will try harder to be more open minded.

        1. bird_internet +12

          I have two close friends who underwent sudden and dramatic religious conversions in adulthood, and both of them turned out to be in the early stages of mental illness. I know it’s unfair to judge religion by that, but the idea that all these supernatural notions could just take over your mind feeds into a lot of my general fears of losing my mind. And a lot of conversion narratives play that part up, which isn’t reassuring.

          1. SingArielSing +8

            Ha. Yeah. I am open-minded about the religion of people I know to the extent that those people are good people; one of my dearest friends is a Christian (born and raised) and I love her regardless of her belief in God, but we also have lots of great conversations about faith and philosophy and I genuinely treasure them. That being said, the one person very close to me who converted from atheism to Christianity as an adult ended up being an awful fucking human being (not because of the Christianity, but the association is hard to shake), so there’s one count for massive distrust, personally, of conversion. More powerful for me, though, falls in with what you said: when I was a teenager, I had a brief period where I was spending a lot of time with some very cool Christian guys who I was a little in love with, so I was hearing a lot about religion, and then I started to think about going with one of them on a mission (!), and then I started feeling like God was talking personally to me (!!!), and then I started believing that my self-injury habits were commanded by God as Just Penance for Being a Sinner (!!!!!) and then I had a complete breakdown and it turned out that I was just having delusions. The fact that mental illness can come in the guise of religious beliefs also frightens me; if I were ever to start feeling those things again, for me personally it would be a sign that I was going mad again, and it would be terrifying, and I don’t know what I would do.

            All that to say, I feel you.

            (Edited to add that Nicole’s great, that piece was great, I have no problem with her conversion and appreciate her sharing her experiences, the above is just meant to illustrate how I would feel personally if it happened to me. <3 Nicole, <3 The Toast, <3 everyone here.)

          2. Olgasrevenge +9

            My OCD is centered on Catholic beliefs I was raised with and when I was a teenager I became really religious in hopes that God would make the intrusive thoughts stop (I didn’t know they were intrusive thoughts at the time; I thought I was a monster). The OCD was finally diagnosed and treated in the last few years and now I’m subclinical (yay!) but yeah, I think if I heard a call back to religion it would be really scary.

    9. renegadeoboe +20

      I read your God thing (even though I was initially apprehensive) and I thought it was great! It’s been ages since I’ve read any conversion stories published in Christian publications, but dang it was encouraging to see an “I was fine before and now I am still fine, but differently so” story in Christianity Today.

    11. PRockette +3

      I woke up to this news (my alarm is set to CBC Radio 2, so I woke up to the news) and it’s coloured my day thus far.

      1. dorianneemmerton +1

        I admire your dedication to CBC Radio. I wonder if I can make my phone alarm do this.

    12. builtahouse +7

      the God thing was beautiful. <3

      I resonate so hard with “this is the opposite of punk rock” and “My Christian conversion has granted me no simplicity.”

      I think I pursue that simplicity and “chill” sometimes which makes it really easy to forget that I’m not a Christian because of “being cool” but because Jesus is like, the best. And that it’s okay to make that the center. 🙂

    13. PonyAlong +4

      WHAT?????? NOOOOOOOOOOOOO…..

      1. Courage
      2. The Hundreth Meridian
      3. “…rolling hills all covered in suede…”…too upset to think of the title
      Jesus, I can’t do this.

    14. Absotively +1

      My Hip listening has been pretty sporadic, because I was introduced to them by a boyfriend who, as it turned out, was not a very good boyfriend, so I didn’t listen to them much after we broke up. Also it was already 2001, so I was behind the times for getting into them. But I will still be keeping a lookout for the tour announcement.

      I had Grace, Too stuck in my head the other day.

      1. Nautical Disaster
      2. So Hard Done By
      3. Fully Completely
      4. At The Hundredth Meridian
      5. Looking For A Place To Happen

      …This may change if/when I relisten to a bunch of their stuff this week. Also, any weird choices are not due to me being a deep cuts fan so much as me only owning two of their albums.

    17. SemperLegens +2

      So…if one (it me, it me) has never heard of him or the Tragically Hip, where should one begin listening (album, song, etc.)?

      1. Absotively +3

        I think any of the songs people have been listing as their favourites in this thread would be good.

        If you use the CBC Music player, there’s a list of songs in the sidebar, you can just click the play button beside the song you want to listen to.

    18. shellygrrl +1

      :((((((((

      Love “Ahead by a Century”, “Bobcaygeon”, “Flamenco”, “Grace, Too”, “Blow at High Dough”, “Music @ Work”, “Poets”. Will definitely be listening to them on Spotify a bit later.

    19. smiavs +6

      🙁 My mother lived for 3+ years after a terminal diagnosis, if that helps at all….

    20. LeenyRose +3

      I loved your piece on the God thing. The end especially; I want to hear more about how this has changed your relationship with money, etc.! Future writing, hopefully?

    21. brittaunfiltrd +1

      Welp this is a super late reply, but I wanted to say I really enjoyed your essay, I have been deeply curious about your conversion process, and am deeply envious of your God thing, and it sparked some thoughts I have been skirting around and am interested in/terrified by.

      I have had bad moments where I have asked for assistance here/on the Pin + from my little IRL community + from an empty room + anybody who might have been listening in it. No reply so far from anyone but my community + from the wonderful Pinners/Toasties. It doesn’t help that I have super specific preferences for what reply I would like – like, could Mary – either or both of the Catholic tradition or any of the Marys from the various syncretic traditions – be there? Anyone from any tradition is fine, but I would prefer a female-identifying person! Pls? – so that’s not helpful.

      It also doesn’t help that I, staunch atheist raised by 1 staunch atheist & 1 deeply anti-religion atheist, would interpret anything as being a product of my broken mind. It thirdly doesn’t help that I am, staunch atheist or no, already deeply terrified of the whole demon/possession trope (see: broken mind, overwhelming fear of loss of control, etc., etc., I really identify with Alex Reagan on The Black Tapes) and so I feel like opening myself up to believing in something higher would also mean opening myself up to believing in that, and … that is genuinely, 100% terrifying to me.

      And that puts me at kind of a stopping point. But it was a really beautiful essay.

  3. dreadfulwind +123

    Oh my gawd you guys I’m going to be a bridesmaid at the Most Redneck Wedding In History; please tell me your best stories about other people’s shitshow weddings and other major life events so that I can prepare myself.

    1. hope +31

      never been in a shitshow, but i was in a wedding in thailand in 90 degree heat, standing for somewhere between two hours and an eternity for a service in which they spoke only thai and bakenyal, neither of which i understand in the slightest. the singing was really nice, though.

    2. BestLaidPlans +95

      I was in a wedding where all the groomsmen streaked the reception. Which was being held in a church basement. So, yeah, naked in church. But with shoes and bowties.

    3. HereKitty +79

      The marriage has lasted many years, so I think it’s OK to tell you about the time the bride’s father kicked off the reception by congratulating the happy couple and then breaking down who had paid for what, so his holy roller buddies knew that he and the missus had not sullied their immortal souls by spending one red cent on demon rum or, in this case, watery American beer. (For the record, I have no problem with teetotalers, just with self-righteous, judgmental nut jobs making their children look as though they’re praying to an altogether different deity to make the floor open up.) Also, this went down in a halfheartedly decorated firehouse rec room, which I’m given to understand is a whole other redneck-culture touchstone.

      1. Frenz_lo +39

        So, that does sound like a shitshow, and I am a bit of a grouch this morning, but is there any way that hyper awareness of who has paid for what, use of un glamorous public space (fire hall, VFW, Elk’s Lodge, etc), non-lavish decorations might be easy to mock because these are all class markers?

        1. lady_moods +107

          I see where you’re going with this, and I don’t totally disagree on your second two points, but I personally think it’d be gauche to *open the reception with a speech about who paid for what* in any tax bracket.

          1. SingArielSing +18

            Yeah, and to me it sounded more like he was breaking down the costs on the basis of not wanting anyone to think he supported the consumption of alcohol. But I also see the problematic nature and potential classism of ripping into certain types of weddings, so I appreciate Frenz_lo’s and Sara Davis’s comments, too.

          2. lady_moods +6

            Oh for sure! On that specific story, I was putting myself in the bride’s shoes and imagining my dad doing the same, and I would be MORTIFIED.

        2. literarysara +76

          Commenting to support your comment. I am always here for making fun of shitshow weddings, and I am also here for making fun of weddings that borrow aesthetic elements from rural poverty in service of a campy theme (such as the infamous hobo wedding). Some folks use the term redneck as shorthand for racist, and I am also always here for making fun of racists!

          But it kind of seems that many of the comments in this thread so far are along the lines of “I went to a wedding that was in the South/Midwest/rural area and it was ugly/weird/inelegant, haha rednecks” and that’s pretty gross, Toasts.

          1. thebellewitch +60

            It’s funny, everyone decries expensive wedding culture, but when then turns around and mocks weddings done on a budget — unless it’s a DIY-Pinterest-style wedding in which money is replaced with massive amounts of time for the same effect. Whenever I see wedding conversations online, I’m always grateful my unglamorous and cheap (and not in a cute way) wedding occurred nearly a decade ago and right out of college, so that none of my friends had any basis for comparison. I feel like weddings have become one of those life events that no one can do ‘right’ (see also: giving birth, parenting.) I look forward to when our generation reaches dying age and we get a lot of passive-aggressive judgment over who’s doing that wrong.

          2. permanentmarker +22

            God yes. I am so glad I got married in the infancy of internet wedding culture and before the ubiquity of photo sharing. I am always up for a crafty perfectionist wormhole, and I’m sure I would have been sucked into that void. Instead, I bought a remainder copy of a Martha Stewart wedding coffee table book and put post-it notes on pictures I liked, gave it to the florist in my v small, v rural hometown, and called it a day.

          3. craneyourneck +4

            Yes, this. (It sounds like you were lucky!)

            It doesn’t matter what the budget is, but everyone else’s taste is different from yours and a weekend of events allows for plenty of things to go wrong. There’s no way to win except to hope that your friends/family will forgive the things they don’t like and try to have a good time.

            As much as a couple can try to justify going over budget with it being one “unforgettable day” / “the best party ever,” a wedding is generally a slightly more pleasant than average, if inconveniently located, weekend for everybody else involved. But it’s nice to have a new context for the couple (in family background or location), see friends, and have a couple of glasses of champagne.

          4. dreadfulwind +86

            [I’m a little bit embarrassed about the wording of my original post so I would like to clarify: the bride in the redneck wedding in which I am going to be involved comes from a not-insignificant amount of money and privilege and just happens to enjoy the Trailer Aesthetic.

          5. literarysara +38

            That sounds extremely mockable! I support mocking the privileged who go in for appropriations of low-income culture, whether that’s ironic trucker hats or campy weddings. That’s not really the right place for the term redneck though, so the clarification is appreciated.

          6. dreadfulwind +56

            Yeah, I’m not really sure if there’s a word that describes “having wholeheartedly adopted the superficial trappings of a rural lifestyle lifestyle and viewing cutoff camo and pickup trucks with decals of strippers on the bumper as the ultimate in self-actualization after having grown up in a seven-figure home in a gated community”, but I should definitely have said that in the first place. I didn’t realize how classist my original statement was, and clearly that’s something I need to work on.

          7. brasspaperclip +22

            Maybe there isn’t a word for it (I bet there is in German, though!), but is the bride a lady who re-frames her whole life and personality to the dude she’s dating/marrying? Then, as a convert, goes HAM on whatever trappings (she thinks) are valued by her newfound ingroup?

            I might be projecting here.

          8. lady_moods +5

            Oh gosh I so know this lady. I used to be best friends with this lady. I feel bad for this lady.

          9. thebellewitch +18

            Definitely takes on a different cast, then! Bring a flask and enjoy the ride.

          10. awfulvelocipedestrienne +17

            Oh. I was thinking that it was going to be the kind of “most redneck wedding” where highly-repressed-Evangelical-drama meets your-con-artist-cousin-shows-up-with-her-allegedly-former-meth-addict-ex-husband-type-drama. Which can be incredibly fascinating when it’s not your family.

            There’s probably a reason that no one in my generation of my family has had a wedding yet, now that I think about it.

          12. sneepsnake +4

            I’ve been to that wedding, except it was highly-repressed-Lutheran-drama.

          14. gcf +17

            Well said. Two things I see influencing this are:
            1) We overlook how much class stuff is linked to ideas of redneckery
            2) There is so much insecurity about Perfect Weddings that it’s a comfort to laugh at the ones that violate dominant class/taste/coastal aesthetics

        3. bird_internet +23

          My parents wedding was in a VFW hall and honestly to hear them talk about it it sounds like more fun than most weddings I’ve been to

          1. IronDoe +15

            My first wedding was in an Elks lodge and you’re 100% right. (2nd one, a week later, to the same guy was in an English village hall so same thing)

          2. robotneedslove +7

            My brother just got married and it was in a cultural centre that looked exactly like a the Legion/an Elks Hall, and it was great.

      2. JGlows +9

        My wedding reception was in a fire hall because my grandpa is an exempt member of the fire department and we got the room for free. No one in his family or mine would ever mark us a rednecks. It had the room we needed for the number of people we invited and the price was right, so *shrug* don’t knock it till you’ve tried it.

    4. bundtpan +59

      My cousin married a legit farmer and he refused to wear a tux, it had to be jeans and tails. And he wanted to ride down the aisle on a tractor. She wanted to wrap the cake in burlap. It was a cash bar.

      1. FitzEmpress +31

        But how do you eat it after that? The threads would infect the cake. Gross.

        1. bundtpan +54

          I can’t imagine you could eat it after that. She got the idea off of Pinterest (damn you, Pinterest) and we, as a family, very sternly told her that this was a non-negotiable thing. And so, the cake was saved.

        2. gcf +24

          My understanding is that the eatability of wedding cake is the least concern. People were surprised mine was edible because we just bought delicious cake with white buttercream frosting and no faffery.

          2. gcf +15

            Wedding stuff is a whole other reality, one in which what the cake looks like matters more than what it tastes like, women are expected to spend thousands of dollars on a dress they will wear once, and at least one generally tolerable person will switch into some kind of Social Beast Mode and add unnecessary drama.

          3. Unreadaethel +36

            The guys from my church who got married a couple of weeks ago got cakes from the local OMGAMAZING bakery. One was vanilla with coconut-liquer frosting, and one was chocolate with Guiness frosting. I had a piece of each, and sort of regretted it, only because the caterers served huge pieces of very rich cake, and I had intended to dance, but had to wait for my cake to settle. But it was delicious cake, so I ultimately regret nothing.

      2. protocoach +66

        It was a cash bar.

        See, this is where you gotta draw a line in the sand.

        1. bundtpan +47

          This is basically where all wedding horror stories begin and end.

          But I snuck a flask in so I won that round, cousin.

          1. krob +33

            My brother and his wife tried to do a cash bar, vastly overestimating my family’s ability to cope with that. My cousin immediately drove to the nearest gas station and bought a ton of beer, which he served out of the trunk of his car. I think there were more people in the parking lot than the reception. (I got married three years later and made sure we sprung for a few kegs.)

          2. beachlass +24

            I have been to two family weddings recently that involved a cousin doing a rum to a the beer/liquor store.

            My brother in law can fit a fair sized bottle of rye in his suit jacket.

          4. safi +56

            I snuck booze into a Lubavicher wedding in Brooklyn (at World Lubavicher HQ), because previous ultra-orthodox weddings had taught me that though the men will have top-shelf liquor, the women will be lucky to get cheap too-sweet wine if they get anything at all! I will treasure the photos I took of my mom and the mother of the bride swigging from half-pints of scotch in the bathroom forever. The British mother of the groom was also VERY thankful I snuck in booze (the bride and groom both went ultra-orthodox as young adults after being raised Reform). Somehow it’s SO MUCH WORSE than cash bar when you know the men get to drink but you shouldn’t!

            And don’t get me started about how weird it is to not sit with/dance with your dad at a wedding. Though we heard later about how my dad dropped feminist truth bombs on the rebbes at the head table (he was/is a surrogate dad to the bride) when they tried to convince him to become a Hasid.

          6. safi +68

            My father is a very pragmatic, engineer type dad – he came to the US from Turkey for school at 15 and then stayed. He’s very comfortable in his Judaism and it’s important to him, but he’s not a showy type of guy. I often say he’s the only feminist Turkish man I’ve ever met (though I know rationally there are others) though he’d never describe himself that way.

            The day after the wedding he tells us this story [please note neither I nor my mom have ever talked with my dad about “what god is like” because idk, reform Jews don’t really talk about god per se, as a person or whatever. Maybe slightly more than we talk about what happens after you die (which is never), but not much.]

            “So all the rebbes were sitting around the table with the groom, and one of them, the head guy? Started telling me about how great it is to be Lubavitcher, and how my life would be so much better if I got with their program, and all that stuff.”

            “So after a while I looked at him and I said ‘I always figured God was a woman’ and they all stopped talking. ‘Well, God created the universe, right? Only women can create life so God must be a woman.’ After that they left me alone about the converting thing.”

            He looked so satisfied at how he’d shut them down, it was beautiful. And that’s how my mom and I learned that for decades my dad has thought of god as female.

          8. walrathem +27

            Bless your Dad. And you for looking after the moms. They needed that drink.

          9. Mrs_Peel +36

            I <3 your dad.

            My Jewish grandma once refused to get out of the pool at the JCC on Orthodox Men’s Swim Night (when they tried to throw us out). It was highly embarrassing at the time when I was 10, but now it’s one of my favorite family memories…

        2. Xolandra +27

          Cash bars are not unusual where I come from. But generally it is a loonie/twoonie bar, you buy tickets, and whoever’s drunk uncle and/or incompetent tween cousin is running the ticket sales and ou wind up with a few extra. I understand it is a decent way to keep ppl from getting drunk AF and forgetting where their drink is and being like “well, new booze, I ain’t paying or it!”

          But, as you may have guessed from the lingo above, booze is also not as cheap where I am from, so.

          2. Xolandra +34

            Sure is! I wanted them to be called dubloonies, FOR OBVIOUS REASONS, but twoonie is what took off.

          5. robotneedslove +3

            It is indeed. I spell it toonie, but you know, it’s the same thing.

          6. Xolandra +1

            I think this is the proper spelling, really. I think I’m still miffed that there is no pun in that word.

          7. Absotively +7

            Same, I haven’t been to a lot of weddings, but the ones I have been to have generally been cash bar. And in Canada.

            I went to one where there was a cash bar, but they put a couple drink tickets in each invitation, which I thought was a good way to split the difference.

          8. smiavs +6

            Yeah, if my dad’s coming to my (potential) wedding, there’s gonna have to be some sort of limit. I think I’d go more with a “everyone gets drink tickets for provided alcohol, but when you’re done you’re done” policy rather than asking guests to pay, though. Then again, I carry that sort of thinking throughout the wedding process. I’m just not under the impression that most people care enough about other people’s nuptials to want to shell out a ton of money at someone else’s wedding. If I can’t afford to pay for my bridesmaids’ gowns, (and that really isn’t that hard if you give up the overpriced bridesmaid satin in favor of dresses from the local department store) then I just won’t have any bridesmaids. On the other hand, I also don’t think I’ll do anything like wedding favors. I don’t expect guests to spend money, (beyond travel arrangements) but they don’t get presents for coming either. Free food and booze, and good music should be adequate.

          9. onemorejessica +3

            These are A+ wedding choices, especially the wedding favors. Favors always seem like such a terrible place to spend your wedding budget money (and TIME, with DIY stuff). Like, we’re friends, I love you, I’m happy to attend your wedding, but I really don’t need a commemorative wine glass with your wedding date etched into it.

          10. smiavs +2

            My sister and brother-in-law ended up with BOXES of leftover shot glasses and matchbooks featuring their names and the date of their wedding when all was said and done. (My aunt is a graphic designer who works for a company who makes them, or I’m not sure they would have done it.) She thinks most people forgot them at the end of the night. I think most people “forgot” them at the end of the night.

          11. New_Username +1

            Yes, toonie bars are pretty much the norm for most of the wedding I have been to (and also what I did for my wedding). I feel like $2 a drink is a reasonable way to split the difference. It helps cover the cost of booze, but you can also get a decent buzz going with the loose change in your purse as a guest. I believe we also put out wine on the tables for free during supper, so a couple glasses of wine helps get you going. It definitely helps reduce wastage from people just leaving booze all over the place too.

      3. smiavs +9

        That’s actually referred to as a Texas tux, I believe. When a friend’s sister got married, their father (in Texas) reserved a rental tuxedo without thinking to specify that he’d also need the trousers. When the big day came, he only had the top half, and they had to frantically scramble to find pants. 🙂

        ETA: What I’m referring to is jeans paired with tails. I didn’t realize my response would be so far down or I would have specified in the original comment.

    5. irreverantontheinternet +65

      I hope there’s a beer wagon! Those are the best parts of redneck weddings. They can be a lot of fun if you just roll with it.

      My cousin’s wedding took place in one of their cornfields (a common theme in my family, can’t use the barn cuz it’s full of cows!). At some point before the ceremony my dad and all my cousins took off into the field and my dad (with his bare hands) caught a groundhog and then proceeded to drop kick it into the forest while everyone cheered. At another cousin’s cornfield wedding, the groom wore a tuxedo t-shirt. A group of people who have known me since I was two cornered my boyfriend behind the portapotties and asked when he was going to marry me.

      1. dreadfulwind +23

        I don’t know about beer wagons but “mud pit at the reception” has been thrown around a lot, so.

      3. RudyRed +8

        My friends’ farm wedding had a beer corral. It was awesome, especially because they had beer from our college town’s local brewery and not the cheap stuff.

    6. bathysphero +29

      I went to a wedding where for the rehearsal dinner, they rented a smoker instead of a bbq grill, so when dinner was done (3 hours after the pre-rehearsal church service), the chicken had the taste and consistency of hockey pucks.
      (I should add that this all seems really funny a few years later, but at the time…)

      1. aravisthequeen +39

        I went to a wedding last summer where the bride had raved about the caterer beforehand, and when we arrived she hadn’t budgeted for enough food for anyone so instead of a buffet they had people serving very very small portions of food. Including chicken that was still very pink. Our veggie serving was 3 string beans and a carrot.

        We hit McDonald’s on the way home lest we starve.

        1. themnemosyne +56

          OMG, I went to one where they didn’t order enough food from the caterer and we had to go to the buffet by table, and OF COURSE my table was last to be called to the buffet, and OF COURSE my dinner was a single dinner roll, a spoonful of gravy, four baby carrots, and two mushrooms. AND it was a cash bar AND the bride and groom had failed to mention that before the wedding so I did the only reasonable thing a girl can do in that situation, which was leave.

        2. redheadedwolf +12

          Sigh, yes, one of my dear friends had to do her wedding on a budget, but she asked her church for a potluck of desserts instead of substantial food. Her in-laws had to do a McDonald’s run during the reception, because her mother-in-law was feeling faint.

        3. Bent_fork +13

          I went to a wedding that had a buffet with not enough food, and we were the last table to get up. Some of the trays just had decorative lettuce left, a stray piece of meat or veg. That was the least bad part of it, but for some reason, I have fond recollections. Maybe because I’m not a fan of weddings and that was the least boring one.

          Seven of us drove 1200 miles (each way) in a minivan over a long weekend. On the way there, we stopped at a motel to sleep for about 4 hours; on the way back, we drove straight through. One guy had, among other health issues, severe back problems, bad enough that he was not able to work, and because he couldn’t sit for very long, they rigged up a platform in the back above all our luggage, and there he lay, in a space he could barely fit into. It looked horribly hot and claustrophobic.

          When we arrived the morning of the wedding, MIL had to immediately help avert a crisis, which was the bride having second thoughts (she should have gone with her gut feelings; the marriage didn’t last the year). Then the women of our group were recruited to go decorate the hall. None of this had been done or even planned for. We had to still buy the decorations and rent a helium tank for the balloons. The men of our group, meanwhile, were enlisted as groomsmen, as they were short several. Unlike the decorating, we had a week or two advance notice on the groomsmen shortage.

          Food was sandwiches and coldcuts, veggie trays, and after the first dance, there were a few people that went onto the dance floor, and then everything petered out and people started leaving. Somewhere in there, we went outside and they released the balloons.

          It could have been giddiness from lack of sleep, but all in all, I had a great time.

    7. SmrtCookie +69

      I stood up in one wedding that the bridesmaid dresses were light pink and I was the only bridesmaid who thought to wear white underwear so the rest of the bridesmaids went commando. Including the one who caught the bouquet. We had to quickly pay off her boyfriend to make sure he both caught the garter and didn’t make a scene putting it on her…

    8. JGlows +20

      Is it going to be more redneck than the Waffle House wedding? Are you all going to take pictures holding AR-15s in camo dresses?

      1. dreadfulwind +48

        The bride is New Redneck in much the same way that some folks are New Money, so I would expect nothing less.

      2. bird_internet +7

        I came down here to ask if there will be a camo gown involved. As long as you aren’t footing the bill for it, that actually sounds kind of exciting.

      3. awfulvelocipedestrienne +9

        Waffle House is love, though, so it’s a suitable venue for a wedding.

        1. ScarlettHairdye +5

          I have only eaten at a Waffle House once and I desperately want to go back.

          1. smiavs +4

            If it helps with your desire to go back at all, they’re actually super conservative (like, not far from Chick-fil-A conservative) and have gave 100K+ to Karl Rove’s super PAC, so not being able to go is actually a blessing in disguise. Although admittedly the food is good in that not-good-for-me-but-totally-delicious sort of way most fast food is good.

          2. ScarlettHairdye +8

            That is disappointing and not surprising. I just love any place where I can get a giant waffle and a plate of grits for like three dollars.

          3. awfulvelocipedestrienne +3

            I did not know this and now I am heartbroken. Love is dead. 🙁

          4. smiavs +1

            Oh, no! I’m sorry! I was trying to help, not break hearts. 🙁 If it makes you feel any better, I was convinced that Pizza Hut was safer than Dominos and Papa John’s, but recently found out that they suck, too, and now I’m sad.

        2. Mrs_Peel +4

          Even I, an urban hipster elitist, would happily hold my wedding at a Waffle House. *Nom nom nom*

    9. cleoreads +42

      I was a bridesmaid in exactly one wedding (my closest friends either eloped or are not married). Looking back on it, that one wedding encapsulated pretty much every bad wedding cliche. Every wedding that I’ve attended since then was much, much better.

      This was for a college friend in eastern Ohio, it was the 90s, we were all in our early to mid-20s and my dress was green velvet with ginormous sleeves and a rhinestone bow on the butt.

      Misc icky events of note:
      – the bride and groom were late to the reception and the venue seated us but wouldn’t serve us until they arrived, so the wedding party was at the head table with a lot of champagne on an empty stomach. I was seated next to the bride’s male cousin who proceeded to drunkenly tell me about how much he loved his ex-girlfriend, the matron of honor (there with her new husband and baby).

      – at the reception the groom removed the bride’s garter belt and tossed it to the single men. The guy who caught it was supposed to put it on the woman who caught the bride’s bouquet. The guy who caught it was someone’s divorced uncle and the girl who caught it was a teenager which made it even ickier. (ETA – the girl’s dad was there and was very protective of her, but I don’t remember if he actually stopped it or not).

      – at the after party the bride’s uncle made suggestive comments about my body and I shut him down. All of the bride’s cousins apologized profusely afterwards (but none of them actually said anything at the time).

      1. cleoreads +5

        In response to some of the comments about this thread, I want to say I’ve been to lots of other really awesome Midwestern weddings (including my own). The things that made this weird (besides the creepy uncles) were more about everyone involved being young enough they just blindly followed traditions instead of picking and choosing the ones that fit them.

    10. Allpha7 +118

      One tragic wedding I went to was a backyard barbecue on the hottest day of the year. They put all the food out hours ahead of time without covering it up, so by the time the ceremony started (not even the reception), the food had all sat roasting in the sun and was COVERED in flies.

      The wedding party and family had started drinking around when the food was put out, so when we got there, one bridesmaid was passed out on the garage floor, while another was screaming about her dress being so short her tampon string was showing. (It was).

      I was wearing fancy shorts and a nice top and was dressed more formally than all of the wedding party, except the bride. One groomsman wore foot long hunting knife strapped to his thigh.

      I tried to put some of the food that hadn’t spoiled yet in the fridge to keep it cool, but a pig’s head was sitting on the top shelf in the refrigerator. So I put the food down and went home.

    11. Apfelmoose +42

      The wedding ceremony that the best man/witness spent with a sick bucket between his legs, while the officiator periodically paused to comment on his ever-increasing level of pallor, and the entire wedding party consisted of the bride, the groom, two witnesses, the photographer, and me (who had met the bride and groom precisely once before their wedding).

    12. gcf +79

      Truly, I’m not sure if this holds a candle to some of the stories above but I had an ex-bf send me the wedding photo of his roommate’s wedding (she was sweet as pie former Disney princess). Key points:
      *When groom proposed, it was with a pink handgun instead of a ring
      *It looks like they’re at the kind of outdoor park where you watch them feed raw chickens to carnivores at 11, 2, and 4.
      *Groom was wearing a t-shirt that said “I washed my balls for this?”

    13. robindavisdesign +37

      As someone who is currently planning a wedding I am really thankful for this thread because I feel like I’m super on top of my planning after reading this.

    14. Xolandra +45

      Never a bridesmaid, but I do have some great stories.

      1) coworker married a coke fiend at the Western Development Museum in Saskatoon (1900s Boomtown theme), it was inside, there was a wax mannequin manning the ticket booth that was the background of the stage (read: train station platform) on which they got married. Said colleague invited the entire staff to her wedding, and we were all weirded out because why? and then we discovered that all previous friends had bailed on her because marrying a coke fiend. They were wed by his grandma’s Baptist preacher, who yelled about charlatans and shady people (gramma has money and insisted) while I contemplated the hundred year old pair of bloomers next to which i was sitting. Her brother stood beside her the whole time with his hands in his pocket chewing gum, her groom had clearly not wadhed his greasy hair, which was slicked back into a ponytail, they were both wearing dungarees and sports jackets while she was resplendant in a cupcake dress and sporting too many diamonds, they threw their wedding cupcakes instead of serving cake like normal humans, and the marriage lasted 6 months before she left because he did not have the money she had married him for (is the rumor going around). O, and the groom’s brother, with whom I had been in the youth orchestra at least 7 years prior, INSISTED on playing his violin “for the ceremony” and it was clear that he had not touched his instrument in he intervening time.

      Runner up: cousin had a hockey themed wedding. Every guest got a hockey card with the bride and groom’s info (includin “how we met”, which, UNUSUALLY, happened at the college hook-up bar.) The MC gave “go to the buffet” instructions in hockey-coach planning diagrams because, he said, normal instructions were hard,but we all know how to play hockey, ammiright? And cousin in charge of carving the baron of beef that had been cooked for the occasion chided me for not eating any meat. I got terribly drunk and forget everything that happened after, but I am certain the chicken dance as played. Certain.

      1. loren_smith +8

        What is it with coke and weddings? I went to a wedding last year where it seemed like all the young men just talked about how much coke they could do off the faces of their ugly ass giant watches.

    15. Edie W +40

      I attended a wedding at which the maid of honor just…didn’t show up. I also ended up doing the bride’s hair for that wedding despite the fact that: 1) I was a guest at the wedding, 2) I am not a hairstylist, 3) I had only met the bride the day before.

      1. thebellewitch +28

        Ugh, this semi-happened to my SIL. Her maid of honor showed up for the ceremony and then just bailed on the reception, where she was supposed to give a toast. It was an uninspiring example of friendship. My husband stepped in and gave a really sweet toast in her place, at least.

      2. bower_bird +9

        A variation on this happened to me. The bride’s sister was in cosmetology school and promised to do everyone’s makeup. She did not show at prep time and I had to do everyone’s makeup, INCLUDING THE BRIDE’S. I’m pretty good at my own makeup, but never do anyone else’s. And I have a weird-ish skintone for a white girl, so much of what I had was a slightly wrong color for the other white ladies and definitely the wrong color for the darker skinned bridesmaids. The only other person who brought her own makeup was an albino, obviously no help.

        Luckily, none of them ever wear makeup, so they felt lovely and primped with a little lip and cheek color.

      3. ecurve +10

        I once saved a wedding by being the only person, other than the bride, who knew how to lace the bride’s corset. At last, all those years of Dickens Faire paid off!

      4. znfchick +1

        My sisters went to a friend’s wedding at which the bridesmaids spent all their time decorating the cake so my sisters had to step up and help the bride do her hair and get dressed. You know. Bridesmaid jobs.

    16. ayelltee +15

      Early afternoon backyard wedding in late July on Long Island. Temperature in the mid 90s, humidity stifling. Pavilion tent thingie for the all-outdoors ceremony and reception kept the sun off our heads but blocked any puff of air so it was like a sauna underneath. No fans. I had sweat rivulets running down my legs and the four of us who drovetogether took emergency air-conditioner breaks in the car, since the house wasn’t air conditioned and guests were not to be indoors except to use the toilets. Midway through the meal, a nasty smell began wafting around the backyard and kept getting stronger as time passed. Scent of stagnant water from the nearby bay maybe? No, the house’s septic tank had overflowed. We left right after cake-cutting.

      1. Absotively +9

        I am very glad now that at the one outdoor, rural wedding I went to, they rented fancy portapotties.

    17. twistycsc +31

      I myself am not a redneck, but I would infinitely prefer a redneck wedding to a snooty wedding. So long as the wedding isn’t at risk of being called off 48 hours beforehand because the groom’s parents are in a shouting match with the bride immediately after her bridal shower, it’ll be fine. Nothing is as stressful as a wedding that’s at real risk of being called off. (Particularly when you’re a bridesmaid but you’re friends with both the bride and the groom, and you’ve been friends with the groom for longer, ask me how I know.)

    18. themnemosyne +94

      I have been a bridesmaid in NINE WEDDINGS.

      Highlights include:

      – the one where the bride and groom were both counseled by their bridesmaids/groomsmen, minutes before the wedding ceremony, that “you don’t have to go through with this, you know, no one will be angry with you if you stop this right now”, because neither of them could seem to stop cheating on each other (note that this was NOT an open relationship)
      – the one where the mother of the bride wore a white dress fancier than the bride’s, and who went from table to table during the dinner telling everyone how much they had paid for the wedding; when the time came for the bride and groom’s first dance the mother of the bride and her husband began elaborately ballroom dancing under a spotlight AROUND the bride and groom
      – the one where the only shots we could order at the bar were, bafflingly, kamikazes
      – the one where they ran out of food and the last two tables got nothing for dinner
      – the one where they ran out of food and the groom sent his father out for two White Castle Crave Cases
      – the one where there was a surprise cash bar that no one had told us about beforehand
      – the one where the stepmother of the bride refused to speak to anyone on the groom’s side for no reason, and sat in the corner glaring daggers at the entire room for four hours
      – the one where it was an outdoor wedding the day after a big rain, and the bridesmaids were all falling around in the mud
      – the one where it was an outdoor wedding on a farm and the entire grounds were covered in cow shit, and goats escaped during the ceremony and had to be wrangled back into their pen, creating havoc
      – the one where the photographer got so drunk 90% of the wedding pictures were unusable
      – the one where the DJ started crying halfway through the reception
      – the one where the groom never made it to his hotel room after the ceremony because he was puking his guts out at the wedding venue long after it had shut down

      1. Xolandra +53

        I want to weave all of these into one really gruesome short story, these are amazing.

      2. YourEyesTheSea +25

        I see that list adds up to more than 9 weddings., so I’m now having great fun imagining which occasions can have had the same awfulnesses!

        1. themnemosyne +23

          Oh, yes, some of these were within the same wedding – I won’t say which ones belong with which, in order to protect my identity. 😉

          I officially retired from any and all potential bridesmaid duties five years ago.

      4. actuallycabbage +7

        You are a saint- being a bridesmaid just sounds like so much WORK. The most I’ve managed is half a groomswoman in a cancelled wedding (still have the dress I paid for though ).

    19. Katiezog +16

      Middle of planning my wedding. Currently horrified. Yay good thread!! 🙂

    20. Rillquiet +37

      High on my list was the best man whose mad pompous speech/lecture to the bride included a reading list: a book on Yankee cooking (so she could keep the groom happy), the Joy of Sex (so she could keep him really happy, hur hur), and a biography of Thomas Jefferson, “Because not only did he found the university where the groom and I got our M.D.s, he was also a great family man.” Oh yeah, and this was two weeks after the Hemings DNA results had gone public.

      1. redheadedwolf +37

        “a great family man”

        SET EVERYTHING ON FIRE

        IT HAS NOT BEEN SAID OFTEN ENOUGH THAT SALLY HEMMINGS WAS HIS DEAD WIFE’S HALF-SISTER WHO, AS A SLAVE, COULD NOT SAY NO TO HIM

        1. Rillquiet +23

          It was the weekend immediately following September 11 and the reception was at a DC-area military base, so a lot of the guests were kind of in a haze anyway; the people at my table exchanged horrified glances, shook their heads, and just…wrote the guy off forever. Weak sauce, but at the time I didn’t have the spoons to do anything satisfying.

    21. sneepsnake +34

      The priest who presided over my brother and sister-in-law’s wedding was so, so drunk that he left out about half the wedding ceremony, forgot the bride’s name (he had been her priest since she was born), snickered when he got to our last name (which is unusual and funny if you are an immature asshole), and forgot that about half the wedding party (my family) was not Catholic and tried to get us all to take communion. But they just celebrated their 17th wedding anniversary!

      1. bird_internet +20

        If he left out half the service, that still leaves, what, 90 minutes of ceremony? (I have spent way, way too much time sitting through interminable Catholic weddings)

        1. sneepsnake +13

          Yeah, it was still waaayyyy too long.

          ETA: The party afterwards was excellent, though.

    22. SingArielSing +48

      The ceremony was actually lovely, but literally as soon as it was over one of the groom’s cousins sprinted toward the barn and then emerged, not three minutes later, having changed from his suit to a pair of jorts and a giant basketball jersey, a bottle of Fireball clutched in his fist. “WHO’S READY FOR SHOTS,” he bellowed. The crowd cheered.

    23. bower_bird +49

      I had to wear a brown, hemp, handmade bridesmaid dress one time because I fucking love the woman who asked me to and this was her drab, insane, hippie vision.

      But I’m still me, so I dressed it up with a giant St. John statement necklace and very fetching heels.

    24. Bent_fork +10

      How about funerals? My dad’s would qualify as … different.

      Some background. We’re Catholic, or were. By the time my father died in his 90s in 2012, none of us went to church anymore or identified as Catholic, except maybe my mother, and I don’t think she goes anymore.

      We’re kind of anti-social. Even when we were kids, my parents had people over maybe once every year or two, and we/they went out to other people’s places about the same number of times. It was my dad’s wish that the “ceremony” be private, our immediate family only, so there was my mother, my siblings, and our kids.

      “Ceremony” is in quotes because there wasn’t one. None of us are given to flowery speeches, or talking period, and my father was a … difficult man, so making up something fake and sentimental would have been icky, especially in front of just family who know what’s what anyway. So, no religious element, nobody getting up and saying anything. Which left, …. nothing. We arrived at the funeral home, said hello to one another, and took our places in the pews, all grouped by family. And for about half an hour, we just sat there. One of my sisters’ kids went up to view the body, twice, but the rest of us opted out. At the time, I thought it was kind of nice, everyone just having their own thoughts, and so perfectly representative of my dad, all awkward and unconcerned with social niceties and how things were supposed to be done. I later learned that much of the silence was other siblings stewing about the conflict that my dad’s illness had brought bubbling to the surface (and exploded the next morning as we gathered at my parents’ house to say our goodbye’s before heading home).

      Creepy, disturbing ending though. After this, the funeral guys rolled the casket (cheapest one, of course! That’s my dad too. Pressboard, I think) over to the cremation oven. We all stood around, and my mother was given the “honour” of opening and closing the door.

      I haven’t been to many funerals, so I don’t know of any alternative “activities” (for lack of a better word) than religious ritual or people getting up and talking about how much the person meant to them.

      One final note. The funeral was on a Saturday, and Monday’s paper had an article about the funeral home’s fraud conviction. They were doing things like switching out cheaper caskets.

      1. Absotively +3

        I think getting the cheapest casket to start with would keep you pretty safe from that particular form of fraud.

        On the topic of funeral “activities,” I think they often have someone give a sermon-y sort of speech about death and grief and family and so on. If it’s a religious funeral, then that can fall under the religious ritual part, but I’ve also heard it done by a UU minister a couple times with no mention of God or an afterlife.

        Music is also common. Especially songs the deceased liked, or songs they picked if they did funeral planning. This tends toward hymns in religious services, but I have gone to at least one funeral where they played recorded non-religious music.

      2. sneepsnake +3

        I just went to my grandfather’s funeral in February. (He was 94.) My still-living grandmother (92) had apparently been feuding with the new pastor of their life-long church, and absolutely refused to have the man on the premises for the funeral, so the sermon/eulogy was given by one of the hospice ministers who did not know my grandfather at all. So it was this vague thing about how brave he was during WWII.

        Then, after the service, everyone went back to my grandparents’ house for food and to reignite long-standing family feuds. This was my mom’s dad, and she’s the oldest of seven, and this funeral was the first time she and her siblings had all been in the same place since her own wedding in the ’70s. So once all the non-related people had left, my mom, her siblings, and my grandma all ended up in the kitchen arguing about whose fault it was that my great-aunt (who had died in 2007 and was a WWII army nurse) did not have military honors at her funeral. And then my disgusting uncle (who is on wife #4) grabbed my rear end and I left. The end.

        ETA: In case it wasn’t clear in my first paragraph, yes, I do mean that my grandmother literally kicked the pastor out of his own church. That part is actually pretty funny.

        1. Bent_fork +3

          “Then, after the service, everyone went back to my grandparents’ house for food and to reignite long-standing family feuds.”
          LOL. So true. Geez, people, can you just not? You were able to restrain yourself while the non-related people were around.

    25. Copy Goddess +15

      I attended a wedding where (a) the cantor sounded like Bert Lahr singing “If I Were King of the Forest” and (b) the flowers on the chuppah made the rabbi sneeze throughout the ceremony.

    26. smiavs +12

      I don’t know what the wedding was like, but a girl I went to high school with got pregnant, and decided to get married, and they just decided to roll with the whole “shotgun wedding theme.” She wore cowboy boots under her dress, (the only cutesy bit that didn’t make me cringe) there are photos of her dad and fiancé with a shotgun, and pictures of the groom with a giant bottle of Jack Daniels. (Implying that he had to get drunk to agree to marrying her. Not what I’d find romantic, but rich tapestry.) I wouldn’t find the whole wedding so mockable if they were less the “redneck, rebel flag-waving bigots and proud” types and more the ” let’s mock society’s insistence that couples be married to reproduce” types, but, alas, they tend toward the former….

    27. S. Pebbletush +5

      I have a cousin who gave all of the guests brightly colored commemorative beer koozies at her wedding reception. (My family is classy as fuck.)

  5. Honeybunchoats +15

    This seems like a safe place for the following comment: is anyone else finding Lady Dynamite to be a bit…triggering?

      1. Honeybunchoats +5

        Yes! I’m enjoying it, but also find myself tearing up fairly often. And I don’t know how far you’ve gotten, but the second ep with Dean Cain where she goes into the shower to scream…I had to turn it off and skip to the next one.

    2. thebeagee +15

      I absolutely love it, I think it’s the best thing Maria’s ever done…and it also can be difficult to watch. The moments when you could see her mania getting really bad (in the “past” scenes) made me pause and get up and do something else before coming back. I just finished the series last night and I had this overwhelming feeling of “HAPPY/SAD/HAPPY/SAD” in conflict. That said, when some time has passed I’m definitely watching it again.

    3. foxinthe_snow +17

      This deeply confused me because it took me an embarrassingly long time to realise that Lady Dynamite is a show and not the 00s UK rapper Ms Dynamite

      (Ms Dy-na-mit-te-eeee!)

    4. evieskye +6

      I liked it but yes–triggering for me. Mostly a lot of my fears about losing control of my life to other people when/if I lose control. Her time in Duluth made me the most freaked out–getting help is great, but I deeply fear becoming a child again/ having someone appointed as my guardian/conservator.

      But her outfits are great.

      1. Honeybunchoats +3

        Agreed – clothes are like a slightly less garish Kimmy Schmidt. Love.

  6. ConcinnityB +61

    Excessive apostrophes in fantasy novels: what is with that? (I’m happy to blame Anne McCaffrey for at least a little bit of it, but I feel like she shouldn’t get all the blame for abominations like Wit’ch Star, etc.)

    1. FitzEmpress +27

      I guess it’s a Thing to make your writing look more jazzed up? Or maybe a profound misunderstanding of diacritical marks? Spots for the audio book reader to take a breath?

      (Also that is a horrendous abomination. There is no sensible reason for Witch to have an apostrophe.)

      1. ConcinnityB +17

        I have heard that it might have Something To Do With Hawaiian? Or J’onn J’onzz, who seems to be patient zero.

        (there’s no sensible reason for those books to exist, in all honesty, and that’s remembering what I thought about them as a less critical sixteen year old who read Dune in one sitting)

        1. alliana07 +27

          When transliterating Hebrew to English, the ‘ gets used a lot, I think because English doesn’t have a silent letter like Hebrew does. So you see things like “Me’ohr” (meh-ohr) instead of “meohr” (meyor/meor) because the pause is met to be there. (Which can be confusing because there is also a letter than looks like ‘ in Hebrew but it makes a ‘y’ sound.)

          HOWEVER I think Fantasy writers just do it to make it look ~exotic~.

          1. VioletandIrises +15

            As a teen I used to participate in a text-based medieval fantasy RPG and there were SO MANY APOSTROPHES. It drove me crazy. Look, I love unusual fantasy names as much as the next person, but stop adding superfluous apostrophes just because your character is a half-elf.

            Also, people seemed to think that to pluralize something you had to use ‘s instead of just s, and now I’m wondering if fantasy authors are to blame. Hmmm…

          2. ConcinnityB +8

            I suspect the pluralisation problem is down to being fourteen, as I was in the saaaame sub-culture for a long time and suffered that problem (I still have to stop and look up how to properly pluralise things from time to time, because if I think about it too hard, I get apostrophes in everything).

          3. coloredlights +16

            Yes, there are legit uses for apostrophes in the middle of words, especially in transliterated languages! Arabic also uses them, to represent glottal stops.

            This means that I mentally pronounce some fantasy names really strangely, because I’m used to the apostrophes having an actual sound that goes with them. And it doesn’t stop me from wanting to throw Terry Brooks (for example) across the room.

          4. Unreadaethel +14

            T’Challa is a good example! Without that apostrophe, the first three letters would look like one sound.

          5. Nashirakins +8

            Then there’s the odd way that FFXIV ARR uses them, where Y’Shtola is said “ish-toh-la” but then her proper name is actually Shtola. The Y indicates clan.

          7. EuterpesDelight +1

            Depending which character is speaking; there’s definitely some variation on that particular name.

    2. authorialfuries +18

      Every time I start a new fantasy novel I remind myself of this list: http://www.rinkworks.com/fnovel/

      Numbers 36-38 are particularly pertinent to this discussion.

      At some point I want a fantasy novel to actually use apostrophes to mean something and explain its meaning somewhere in the text. Is it used to denote a click consonant? Is it to elongate a sound? Is it used to shorten a sound? Give it a reason!

      1. Nerterology +10

        I’m weirdly glad Rinkworks is still up and running. I wasted a lot of time on there in the early/mid-2000s… there was a time I had all the syntax for their fantasy name generator memorized. And then abused it by generating a bunch of names with hyphens and apostrophes in them. I KNEW NOT WHAT I DID.

        1. authorialfuries +3

          Oh yes. I’m sure my early stories were 50% cliche and 50% generated fantasy names. Why have good storytelling when you can have apostrophes?

          1. Unreadaethel +12

            Ah, gentle mockery of speculative fiction tropes, you fill my heart with sunshine.

          2. Nerterology +24

            On that note, Diana Wynne Jones’s The Tough Guide to Fantasyland is perhaps the best such gentle mockery I’ve ever seen. It so clearly comes from a place of affection, and it is also 100% ON POINT.

          3. ConcinnityB +18

            Have you read The Dark Lord of Derkholm? AFAIK, it takes place inside that ‘verse and is excessively charming.

          4. Nerterology +5

            That’s one of a handful of DWJ books I haven’t gotten around to yet, but you have just bumped it up on my priority list.

          5. alula_auburn +5

            I was coming to comment on that very book with a very similar remark. Meetings!

      2. Unreadaethel +16

        I just want you to know that I’m reading this comment with all kinds of glottal stops.

    4. m98widow +22

      At least Anne McCaffrey was using it like the circumflex in French, it was denoting that a chunk of letters had been taken out. Everyone else, not so much.

      1. ConcinnityB +12

        It’s an elision, right?

        (although I always found the explanation which MAY be fanon that dragons can’t remember whole names /weird/)

        1. Nerterology +15

          Yeah, in one of the prequel books McCaffrey does some handwaving about how dragons tend to slur human names – which doesn’t make sense, with them being telepathic and all. How is it really less effort to think two syllables than three? AND it’s stated they only do this for men because they respect women too much. Which doesn’t make sense in a completely different way.

          …Actually, I’m not sure whether it’s women they respect too much or, specifically, queenriders / Weyrwomen. Then again, later in the series we do get women riding lower-ranked dragon colors, and their names don’t get apostrophized either, and okay I need to stop right here before I sink my whole lunch break into Pern minutiae

          1. ConcinnityB +15

            oh, no, I am completely here for Pern minutiae. Where do you fall on “how big /are/ those dragons” and “How exactly does Pern’s ecosystem even work anyway it has grass but no large native herbivores”?

          2. Nerterology +12

            I seem to remember one book making a passing reference to a queen dragon’s eye being the size of a human head? But I had a hard time envisioning them being much bigger than, like, a draft horse. If nothing else, if they ARE that huge then I completely understand the holds’ resistance to the tithe system. How the hell you gonna feed a whole mountain full of carnivores that size and have anything left for yourselves? Thread doesn’t go through stone, so why doesn’t everyone just live in dugouts and tell the dragonriders to piss off?

            …But yeah, the Pernese food chain is utterly baffling. I’m trying to think of a single native herbivore of any size and the closest I’ve got is, uh, didn’t they use some kind of bioluminescent bug for light? Maybe those ate plants? Maybe?

          3. ConcinnityB +9

            Yeaaah. Part of the problem is, their size IS mentioned in the books/dragonlover’s guide – but at one point it’s in feet, and another in metres. And they’re the same. IIRC, McCaffrey basically got confused and thought they were equivalent, so you’ve either got ‘kind of sort of reasonable’ or ‘okay, so, a gold dragon is as big as a blue whale’, and then you realise that if you plot out the distances the whole thing takes place on a continent that’s maybe about the size of Ireland if you’re generous…

            The only solution I’ve ever come up with is ‘they all got wiped out by thread which was a totally new thing JUST BEFORE the first survey’, and then were relatively swiftly replaced with terrestrial grazers, but that’s really reaching into fill stuff after the fact.

          4. Borednow +3

            The dragons change size. The first generation are a horse size, but the genetic engineering is designed to grow them over generations. The final golds are almost whale size. And greens I think grow to the size of elephants. This is only ever explained by the AI, so you’d have to read that one for specifics.

          5. eegghh +13

            One that really bugs me is how many wizards are in Harry Potter. It’s like…1,000 that live in all of the UK. It’s ridiculously low. There are probably more Toasties than wizards. There’s only one all wizard village in all the UK, so it’s also absurd that most wizards don’t understand subway tokens.

          6. keristars +10

            So on Harper’s Tale MOO circa 2002 or 2003 we had this huge debate about apostrophizing women’s names because a bunch of us had really cool shortforms ready (and lots of other MOOs/MUSHes were doing it – StarStonesMOO was my other game and they did it!), and it was right at the tail end of my time spent RPing, but I was so excited to FINALLY be able to semi-officially rename my character Lors’ia because I wanted that fucking glottal stop because Lorsia wasn’t the name, it was Lorsalia with a gap because “al” takes like TWO morae and a glottal stop only ONE so it’s faster to say/more nicknamish.

            But anyway.

            Hi, anyone reading this who remembers Lorsalia from Harper’s Tale.

          7. EffectiveNancy +4

            This is explaining SO MUCH of my 8 year old’s dragon fiction. The dragons make zero sense as animals, but at least they all have fairly standard compound word-type names (Frostfire, Earthgreen) AND the humanoid characters have reasonable sorts of names like Sophie and Fox. I am not sure if she puts in any male characters.

    5. Alucius_ +29

      Neal Stephenson’s book Readme actually has a great exchange about this in which two authors tasked with writing the backstory for an MMORPG get into a huge fight over one’s use of random apostrophes. I believe he called it something like “the great apostropocalypse.”

      1. jenavira +17

        …every time I think I couldn’t love Neal Stephenson more…

        (I don’t actually love Neal Stephenson all that much, but I feel like he and I have similar levels of interest in really trivial nonsense and also the broad shape of history, and I appreciate his books deeply, and they always surprise me with how much I enjoy them. Which is a really long way of saying that I am going to have to find a way to use “apostropocalypse” in a sentence some time in the next week.)

      2. ConcinnityB +5

        I remember listening to this on audiobook! The whole idea with the clash between the two authors had me in stitches.

    6. eegghh +35

      On the list of my great inventions I’m never devoting time to making happen is an app that will turn all the character names into the most common current names of people in your language. So Rhollorrrrigng becomes Ron. Flargen Darth Schlooglehorn the Comte de Percy becomes Fred Jones the III. It will consistently change the names for everyone who reads the books, and it will try and come up with the closest name it can. This way you can remember the names. Authors will be so furious by reading fan discsussions where everyone is like, “but is the sorcerer Steve actually dead?!” that they will come up with less ridiculous fake name that they prefer and start labeling their books as “naming conventions will not require the commonification app”. Soon my app will be obsolete, but most characters will still have readable names, sans apostrophes and pronunciation guides in the front.

      I got particularly fed up when in the Kushiels Dart series I realized that one dude she was calling by his nickname, his regular name that was similar to other people’s names and his title interchangeably and the three separate characters I thought I knew were one fucking person and I had to go back and re-read everything.

      1. ConcinnityB +23

        I had exactly the same problem with the Goblin Emperor, which is a perfectly lovely book, but suffers from Tolstoy Naming where everyone has a formal name or two, three titles and at least two nicknames, one of which they will share with another character and one of which will only be used under very specific circumstances. The use of this name may change from paragraph to paragraph.

        1. octopoda +8

          Yeah! And there is an explanation for it all but it comes in the back of the book. If it was at the front at least I’d have know what was happening going in.

          1. ConcinnityB +6

            Yes! And I would have been able to go ‘ohhh that’s a family name it’s not actually the same person’.

        3. eegghh +2

          oh man, yes that was a rough one. I loved that book, but boy, what a bumpy ride.

      3. laurensherm +20

        This is amazing. It makes me think about how Tolkien ‘translated’ all of the hobbit names so they sounded homey and British, but in reality Samwise Gamgee is named Banazir Galbasi.

        1. eegghh +10

          See this is perfect and only proves my point. Tolkien knew what was what. If it’s good enough for our Holy Spirit, its good enough for you too, modern fantasy.

    9. exitpursuedbyaclaire +7

      This entire thread makes my soul so happy (in high school, I actually created a small forum devoted specifically to parodies of high fantasy) (and currently I have a fantasy fiction blog so not much has changed).

    11. kayjayoh_ +6

      At least the Anne McCaffrey ones were legitimate contractions.

      [proceeds to dork out]

      The (male) dragonriders had normal names, and then had them shortened when they got a dragon. Still goofy, but with a logic.

      [edit] Aaaaaaand I see this has been covered.

    12. Zooey_Glass04 +2

      I once taught a kid named Hol’lee. Yes, pronounced Holly.

      Her dad cornered my colleague at a parents evening to tell her all about their father-daughter trips UFO hunting. It was kind of adorable, but wow, her teen years promised to be rocky.

  7. speakingofcake +31

    I got a lovely Toast Post postcard from @ragingsgoddess (hope I spelled that right) with a delightful picture of a plate from a collection called something like ‘Disaster Plateware’ – it was a Moby-Dick style whale creature chasing people in a city, all done in beautiful Wedgewood-style plate design. I loved it and it really brightened up my morning. Thank you!

    1. Ivans_Sister +3

      I got Toast Post too! It was a response to my original post and I couldn’t be happier.

  8. threatqualitypress +109

    Friends, I don’t know if you’ve been keeping track of this Hugo Awards nominations business, where a bunch of reactionary jerks were trying to game the system so that religious conservative stories about white dudes being manly won all the awards as a way to combat the inevitable march of progress? And then for some reason they decided to bring Chuck Tingle into it?

    Oh man, has Chuck Tingle clowned these guys so hard. Like, over and over. I don’t know what his deal is, if he’s just a weird dude or if this is some kind of Dadaist provocation or what, but dang.
    http://www.therabidpuppies.com/

    Here, he managed to snag one of their website domains before they secured it.

    1. threatqualitypress +61

      I honestly can’t think of a time in the history of books when a bunch of knuckleheads have been clowned as hard as this.

    2. ppyajunebug +81

      Chuck Tingle is a gift unto the romance community, and the Internet at large. He has also designated Zoe Quinn to accept his award for him if he wins.

    3. ConcinnityB +61

      I also love that Zoe Quinn has agreed to accept any Hugo in his name (presumably so he can remain anonymous).

    4. cait0716 +35

      My current theory is that he is somehow related to Lemony Snickett. Because he has to be.

      1. walrathem +47

        My theory is that he’s a well-respected author in some other field and this is what he writes when he’s procrastinating on his other books. I’m also partial to the idea of a retired lady professor having the time of her life.

      2. Borednow +1

        My theory is that he is a queer woman who lives in either the bay area or new York.

    6. theburnersmydestination +59

      I love how he is just totally going along with it. I fully expect every book he ever releases from now on to bear the “Hugo Nominated Author” tag.

    8. jenavira +37

      I was pretty pissed when I saw that Chuck Tingle had gotten the nomination, but he has totally made it worthwhile and I love and respect him now.

      1. walrathem +4

        Yeah, me too. I kind of wanted him to decline after the trolling but I guess it’s getting a bit late for that.

    9. Givemebackmehat +56

      This just made my entire morning.
      Another supposedly puppy friendly author who has been trolling them hard lately is Robert Bevan. He just released a (terrible, hilarious) novella called Space Puppies about a man named Duke Whitepower flying around in the Aluminum Falcon and fighting Space Justice Warriors.

    10. sabinabemani +19

      Chuck Tingle did an AMA on Reddit. It’s even more bizarre than I expected. https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/4gptv8/i_a…

      ETA: This might be fake, but it matches other interviews I’ve read of him… whoever writes under the name “Chuck Tingle” has developed a very bizarre character and is really, really good at staying in it.

  9. alliana07 +47

    Also, someone posted this Ask Polly in the Toastie Slack (in our ‘let’s discuss advice columns’ channel) and HOO BOY what a gut punch: Ask Polly: Why Don’t Men I Date Ever Love Me. (Please do not be scared from reading by the title.)

    “I want you to get out some colorful markers, and I want you to write these words 50 times, on the same page. You SHOULD BE cherished. You should be cherished. You. Should. Be. Cherished.”

    1. safvn +44

      For my graduation, my boyfriend (soon to be husband) hand-lettered an Ask Polly quote: “Do not allow the same crappy thought patterns to wear the same terrible grooves in your brain over and over again.” I love it and her.

      1. brasspaperclip +21

        I have loved her since her Suck days (o so very long ago) but I think her advice column is TOO DAMN LONG and she could benefit from an editor or a strict word count or something.

        1. msjinxie +14

          Ooooh, I am inclined to agree. I really love her column but ever since the move from The Hairpin over to the Cut, she’s started to veer into Dear Sugar territory (and I also love Dear Sugar, but sometimes you just want them to cut the flowery language and get to the point).

          1. brasspaperclip +5

            This conversation got me curious so I copied the most recent column into a Word doc – over 2400 words! That’s 4+ pages of text. Gracious.

    3. dreadfulwind +8

      I’m not sure if this is the place for this, but I requested an invite to Toastie Slack and didn’t hear back… what do now? I JUST DON’T WANNA MISS THE BOAT GUYS. D:

      1. alliana07 +3

        It’s totally the place, I think anyway. I commented in the admin group in the slack chat so hopefully an admin of the chat will get back to you asap! 🙂

      2. aqueousmedium +3

        Same here, but I assumed that ppyajunebug was just overwhelmed with plaintive Toastie email requests and it might take some time? I hoped that was why, anyway.

        1. illyria83 +2

          follow up if you need to. Be sure you’re emailing from the email you want your invite to go to. It should be fine.

    4. VioletandIrises +65

      Oh man, this one’s hitting me. I’ve never had a relationship, and it definitely ties in to my refusal to be little miss people-pleaser. Yes, the fact that the people who are interested me are always people I’m not interested in dating, and vice versa, is a factor. But now I’m trying online dating and not having much luck, and this Ask Polly confirmed that my frustrations are well-founded.

      I see tons of guys whose bios say nothing about themselves, and then say stuff like “you should be funny and ambitious” or “you should love to be active” and so on and so forth. Um…screw you? The point of your bio is not to tell me what YOU want, like this is a mail-order bride service. The point is to tell me why on earth I might want to possibly meet you.

      But per Polly, it seems like most guys are expecting women to serve them, even if they wouldn’t come out and say that, and in spite of the fact that attitudes have seemingly progressed since the 50’s.

      I’m not going to change myself in the hope that a guy–or even other women–will like me better. I’d rather be alone and be a fully formed, complex person than be a shell of a person who has a significant other.

      1. danelleorange +65

        THIS OH MY GOD, I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT YOU, I’M NOT THAT THIRSTY FOR YOUR NONDESCRIPT DICK.

      3. alula_auburn +11

        Ugh, yes. So many messages that are just “hi” and nothing on the profile why the fuck should I message you back?

        and at the same time I’m freaking out, like, I meet criteria a, b and e-f–I mean, maybe I could learn to play Assassin’s Creed? :stop it, self:

    5. bocadelperro +10

      I want to mail every Ask Polly column to college-age and immediately post- college me.

    1. Herberta1 +28

      Also, the Victorian Era did not encompass the time period from the fall of the Roman Empire to when your grandparents were born. (A complaint made by a historian friend of mine about her students.)

      1. theburnersmydestination +54

        “Things That Are Not Victorian” should be a Toast article, because for some reason people seem to think that 1. Victoria reigned for about 250 years and 2. that other very clearly defined eras (such as Edwardian) are also Victorian.

        1. bookwormV +25

          Someone from my workplace described 12 Years a Slave as being set in “Victorian America”, which is not quite how I’d describe it. (This was in the course of a conversation in which she was explaining to another staff member – who had apparently never heard of the film – what the plot was; the person she was describing it to was apparently SHOCKED AND HORRIFIED by the very idea of slavery, which is a very reasonable response but also a slightly odd one (she was acting as though she had never heard of or thought about slavery in US history in her life). She also asked at the end of the conversation, “So, how long was he a slave for?”)

        2. smiavs +10

          I blame American Girl books for confusing me for ages. I mean, they’re supposed to be well-informed, historically-based kids’ books, right? WHY did they insist (actually, they probably STILL do) on referring to their most popular doll/character as a “bright Victorian beauty?” The books start in 1904. That’s Edwardian, bitches.

        3. znfchick +5

          A girl in my English class in freshman year of uni wore a horrible faux-Victorian dress (totally inaccurate, too short, and paired with Birkenstocks) to class one Halloween and said that the prof should notice and praise her for the costume, because we were studying Shakespeare and “he was from the Victorian time, right?”

      2. sigaloenta +9

        To be honest, though, that description of world history is basically exactly conformant to my childhood interests.

      3. typewriterandgramophone +31

        Fortunately, every American woman from the Colonial Era through the Second World War wore a white lacy long-sleeved blouse and a long calico skirt, changing accessories and petticoats as needed.

        I learned this from a girlhood spent being in plays and volunteering at historic houses. *thumbs up, sincere grin*

          1. typewriterandgramophone +2

            Junior Volunteers of [Place Name] represent! I can roll a hoop and play Graces like a champ. And I know *so* many word games.

    2. alliana07 +11

      Yeah, I made a typo with her death year and now I cannot edit it, alas. I feel very ashamed.

  11. aravisthequeen +44

    God, I don’t want to be at work today after a glorious long weekend.

    Today our home is being inspected because WE HAVE AN OFFER. I’m on complete pins and needles. It will firm up on Thursday and I’m absolutely dying. I cannot handle this kind of unknown!!!! Oh god, oh god, oh god.

    2. cait0716 +4

      Good luck! We’re currently getting our shit together to get our house in the market in (hopefully) 3 weeks and holy shit there is so much to do.

      1. aravisthequeen +6

        Oh my God, yes. I have bins full of books hanging out in our garage in an effort to keep the house semi neat. That and having to keep the house surgical suite clean EVERY DAY oh lord please let this work out I cannot do it any more

    3. gripyfish +12

      I thought this said your home was being inspected because you had an otter–but an offer is very exciting too! Hope everything goes well!

  12. sarahgundle +69

    Toasties, today is a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad day.

    On the plus side, when I texted my boss that I was going to be late because my car is being a dick, he said, “Well, tell your car to stop drinking so much!” So at least I got to laugh.

  13. Battle_Swine +33

    Toastfriends, I just booked tickets to Ireland! Where should I go? What should I do? Where should I stay? Tell me everything!

    Relevant: Mr._Swine and I will be there about 10 days in early September, flying in and out of Dublin. We plan to rent a car and have a vague idea of some places we probably want to visit, but that’s it so far. We enjoy museums a moderate amount but are more into nature/vistas/sightseeing.

    2. speakingofcake +10

      Nature and vistas – you’ve come to the right place! Places that are touristy but still 100% worth going to – the Cliffs of Moher in County Clare, Dingle and the Ring of Kerry, Connemara and surrounding areas. Other places I love personally – West Cork, especially the coast from Bantry to Kinsale, South West Waterford, especially the Copper Coast and the Ring Peninsula and Kilkenny town and surrounding countryside. Near Dublin the Wicklow Mountains are not far by car and are well served by hiking trails, and the coastal towns both north and south of the city like Dun Laoghaire and Howth are lovely. And if you want specific Dublin tips, or a Toastie to hang with, I’m your gal!
      Hope you have a lovely time – Ireland has its Problems (see: women’s rights) but it really is one of the loveliest places in the world, and we’re generally Good People 🙂

      1. TimTamGirl +4

        Massive big second to the southwest coast. Bantry is stunning. Be sure to eat at The Snug, it is wonderful.

      2. Battle_Swine +2

        These are great tips, thank you! Three of my four grandparents were Irish, so I totally feel you on the Good People thing. 🙂 Regarding Dublin, we’ll probably be there at least the first night; is there a particular area you recommend?

        1. fishesinthetwee +3

          I do! We stayed at the Trinity City Hotel – great rooms, excellent location. Easy walking distance to everything. I saw someone else mention the Long Room at Trinity College – strong second, and we walked from the hotel. Really funky style, too. I loved it. 🙂

          They were rigid about check-in time, which meant we did a fair amount of tired walking around in the rain on our first day, waiting, but. That’d just what happens when you get in early and soooo tiiiired.

          We drove to Northern Ireland from Dublin so I think we’re in a different region than you will be? But Newgrange wasn’t far from Dublin and was AWESOME, if you’re still looking for things to do!

      3. YourEyesTheSea +6

        I’ve just come back from a trip to Ireland; we were staying in Clare, and the hills of the Burren were magnificent – they beat the cliffs of Moher, to my mind anyway.

        The good stuff is mostly in the coastal areas (the interior is a bit flat and repetitive to my taste), but the motorway network is great so from Dublin airport you can get anywhere within a few hours.

    3. cait0716 +10

      If you can get out to Galway for a couple of days, the Cliffs of Moher and the Aran Islands are well worth seeing. Also the Titanic museum in Belfast was amazing.

      1. walteredwardgo +3

        But if you try to go to Aran on the Doolin Ferry one of the companies is great and the other is run by a man who is Too Irish and has no concern for the difference between say a 9:00am ferry and a 2:00pm ferry and you will sit on the concrete of the dock for those five hours and it will be hell. (Don’t use “Doolin2Aran Ferries” is what I’m saying.)

    4. geekcrackteam +5

      oooh fun!

      What kind of stuff are you in to? You can get pretty much anywhere in Ireland with a car in less than 1/2 a day, so you can do anything!

      Around Dublin; Get the DART (metro train) South to Dalkey/Killiney, Bray or Greystones, or North to Howth and enjoy the views on the way and the little seaside towns when you get there (South is my turf and personally its The Best, but I’ve heard North has good fish and chips.). Walk up Killiney Head and take in the view of the South Dublin bay and then go for an over-priced but beautiful lunch in Dalkey.

      If you’re into museums Dublin is full of them, the Natural History Museums is good fun, and IMMA is nice if you’re into modern art (Irish Museums of Modern Art). Check out the Dublin Food Co-op if your into alternative stuff/health foods.

      Don’t get fooled into doing the 12 pubs of Dublin, you just get really drunk and every pub you go too is packed because everyone does them in the same order. Avoid Temple Bar at night, its nothing but British Hen/Stag parties, but go there in the day there’s lots of cool shops and performance art. Check out the parks of Dublin, they’re all beautiful (Stephens Green and Merrion square are really easy and central, Iveagh Gardens can be tricky to find and Pheonix Park is good, but huge and a bit out of the way.)

      In the car, head out into the Wicklow mountains and drive the Sally Gap if you can, its terrifying but beautiful. Stop in Laragh or Glendalough for lunch. Glendalough is a tourist trap, but its beautiful if you get it on a good day.

      Drive down the N11 (Highway) and explore the south east coast; Wicklow town, Enniscorthy, and Waterford are all towns along that road and they all lovely and historic. There’s a big thing about Irish-American emigrants in Waterford if that’s something you’re in to.

      Have fun!

      1. speakingofcake +7

        Good point about terrifying roads – if you are travelling from the US the roads/cars will take some getting used to! Basically they’re both much, much smaller here, and in the countryside the roads will probably seem unfeasibly narrow – like ‘can two cars actually pass each other??’ narrow (They can, believe it or not). Also very winding. Nearly all cars are stick shift, but you can hire automatics easily enough I believe if that’s what you’re used to. People are generally OK drivers – not like some other places in Europe (France, Italy, I’m looking at you), but you’ll find sometimes that people drive a bit faster than they should on the country roads. Don’t let that make you feel you should be going faster – the speed limit is perfectly safe, and if people are in that much of a hurry they can pass you out if they want.
        Back in the Hairpin days Edith Zimmerman wrote a good piece about travelling in Ireland; it seemed a pretty good synopsis of how they managed the roads. Plus she went to a very broad range of places: http://thehairpin.com/2012/07/ask-someone-who-rec…

        1. geekcrackteam +6

          What are you talking about! Irish roads are brilliant! If your in a hot hatchback anyway. And good at dodging potholes and sheep. (I love going home and bombing around the backroads of Wicklow, the roads are always empty!)

          If you’re used to US cars and roads it will be a culture shock, but you’ll get used to it. Make sure you remember that all the road signs/speed limits are metric, so KM/H not MPH. So when the speed limit says 100km its actually about 60mph. Check the speedo in your rental car and make a note of which row is the KM and which is the MPH, some cars have both now, some only have KM. I learned my lesson on this while going down a B road at 100, and wondering why my mother was frantically telling me to slow down since the speed limit is 100. I was looking at the MPH dial and was doing 100mph down a back road.

        2. Battle_Swine +2

          Thanks for the driving tip, and the Edith article! I figured I would probably need to learn stick shift before going over there, though I’ll check the $ differences for an automatic. Mr._Swine is fine with stick, but considering I am altogether a better driver and also an admittedly obnoxious backseat driver, I think it will be better for everyone if I can be the one to navigate the terrifying roads.

          1. hapsatou +2

            Keep in mind even if you teach yourself to drive stick in US (i’m assuming you’re in the US apologies if not) it will all be switched when you come over here. Meaning you’ll be operating the gearbox with your left hand, not your right. I’ve know several very competent manual drivers from US that found that a bit tricky.

          2. fishesinthetwee +1

            Yeah, and the automatic we rented really wasn’t more than a few dollars extra per day. It was worth it to have one less thing to think about, imo.

      2. Battle_Swine +4

        Thank you, this all sounds excellent! I basically want to do every beautiful drive and see every seaside town and hike all the things. Had not heard of the 12 pubs of Dublin but will be sure to avoid it. Do you have a favorite non-tourist-packed pub there?

        Good tip on the Irish-American thing, too. Both sides of my family emigrated from Ireland, so that could well be worth checking out. I need to find out what towns everyone was from…

        1. speakingofcake +5

          My favourite Dublin pubs are: (with the caveat that my tastes run to old-fashioned, Victorian style pubs)

          Grogan’s, South William Street (great for sitting outside on the admittedly not-high chance you get sunny weather)
          Bowe’s, Fleet Street (very tiny, good for traditional music, great for Saturday afternoons)
          The Library Bar, Exchequer Hotel, Exchequer Street (past the lobby and up the stairs, another great afternoon-to-evening bar)
          The Lord Edward, Werburgh Street (near Christchurch). The upstairs room has great window seats.
          The Cobblestone, Smithfield (The place to go for traditional music)
          The Bernard Shaw, Portobello (More hip than the others, nice relaxed fun spot)
          MVP, Harold’s Cross (a bit further out of the city but buses go there and you can walk there along the Grand Canal. I love this place, it has an old-pub feel with a hip update, it veers slightly hipster but not obnoxiously so, and people bring their DOGS)

          Whelan’s is a bar a lot of people love – I’m a bit over it myself but it’s a decent spot and they have gigs most weekends. It’s on Wexford Street.

          Bruxelles, The International, McDaids, The Stag’s Head, Cassidys, Mulligans are all well-known pubs in the city centre that are popular with tourists but locals go there too and they’re nice places, so any of them are worth a visit if you’re passing)

          Most of the pubs in Temple Bar are to be avoided except the Front Lounge, which is a nice relaxed queer-friendly bar that does food. Another good gay bar is Pantibar on Capel Street. The George is the most well-known gay bar in Dublin but it’s a bit cheesy imo.

          Definitely avoid: Oliver St John Gogarty in Temple Bar (diddley eye); The Auld Dubliner in Temple Bar (same), The Bank, Cafe En Seine, The Porter House, 37 Dawson (soulless superpubs); Flannery’s on Wexford Street (meat market), most of the bars on the quays near O’Connell Bridge (diddley-aye and kinda scary at the same time).

          Seconding all selma’s Dublin recommendations above.

          This is fun! I love thinking of my city through a visitor’s eyes.

          1. Battle_Swine +1

            Oh wow THANK YOU, so many pubs to see! (And to avoid, which can be just as useful!)

        2. geekcrackteam +1

          The 12 pubs is just a pub crawl that a lot hotels/tourist advice places will tell you about, all the emigrants do it at Christmas when they come home and its a terrible shit show.

          I’m kind of bad at Dublin pubs; if you make it out to Bray there’s a great local pub called The Harbour Bar, it used to be The Lonley Planets ‘Best Bar in the World’. Sweeny Mongrels was a good alt bar, but its shutting in June! Dame Street has some good bars, and Georges Street has all the gay bars. There’s Panti Bar (Drag bar) and OutHouse (LGBT Cafe) on Capel Street. If you’re into metal/rock bars there’s Fibbers or Club Hell. It really depends what you’re into, there’s also a lot of ‘old man’ pubs, which is probably what you’d think of as an ‘Irish pub’, any of them will do a good Guinness.

          1. Battle_Swine +1

            Hah, I am about 20% old man already, so I might need to check one of those out.

    5. Fluffernutter +14

      If you’re a person who is into old books (I mean, you’re a Toastie), going to the library at Trinity College in Dublin is like a pilgrimage. It’s so beautiful and the Book of Kells is there.

        1. EffectiveNancy +3

          And after the Book of Kells exhibit you are spat into the multistory nave of books you have totally seen photos of, no kidding here, I wept. Must also say that if you can track down rural relatives especially, DO SO. We visited my husband’s mother’s family members, and one side had a two-room cottage with a roaring peat fire and lots of whiskey, and the other side had a historian AND A CASTLE*. You won’t know until you look what goodies lurk out there.

          * Fortification, not luxury fancy palace

    6. HGK +4

      I lived in Northern Ireland for a couple of years and cannot recommend it enough. It’s gorgeous – the north coast is very dramatic. You like vistas?! You’ll get them in NI. Great hiking throughout, but particularly Glenariff/the Glens of Antrim, Mountains of Mourne, Castlewellen. Giant’s Causeway is awesome, and on your way up there (or back down) be sure to stop at Carrick-a-Rede to walk across the absolutely terrifying rope bridge). Silent Valley, in the Mournes, is really cool. Since you’ll be renting a car, this will all be easy for you to reach. There’s also lots of *really* old forts, old forts and castles/ruins, etc, throughout the country, if you’re into that. While you’re up the north coast, be sure to stop at Bushmills for the tour and tasting – the whole town smells like whiskey! Even Cave Hill in Belfast is a great hike and has really amazing views of the city and port. Belfast and Derry are the biggest cities in NI and both have a lot going for them, but I lived in Belfast longest so I can talk more about bars/restaurant recs there, if that’d be helpful. It’s goes without saying that there’s lots of amazing fresh seafood to be had! And lots of good beer and whiskey. 🙂 Lots of great live music, both at proper music venues/clubs, and a lot of random performances – usually traditional/ “trad” music – to be heard at pubs. The Ulster Museum in Belfast is a great place to visit (particularly if the weather is really rough and you want to be inside for an hour or two), and while you’re in that part of town, be sure to visit the Botanic Gardens and the Tropical Ravine. You can take a black cab tour through some of the historic conflict points in Belfast. St. George’s Market is a must visit on the weekends – great food, crafts, live music, and people watching!

      Also, if you’re a Game of Thrones fan, a lot of it is filmed around NI, and there are definitely a couple of different tour options (note: I never did one of these).

      In southern Ireland/ RoI, Dublin is fun. Favorite spots include St. Stephen’s, and Trinity College. Kilmanagh Gaol is very worthy of a visit, and the natural history museum is great (it has bog people!!). As you’re driving between Belfast and Dublin, Newgrange is worth a visit – it’s a really ancient monument, older than the Egyptian pyramids.

      Leaving Dublin, I would encourage driving across the country to Galway, which is a fantastic seaside town. More great music, crafts, and sights. You can take a boat tour out to the Aran Islands – I never did this and I regret that. There’s a great history museum in Galway. The Burren in Co. Clare is also very, very worthy of a visit – it’s rugged, windswept, and breathtaking.

      Any questions about specifics, just ask.

      1. Battle_Swine +2

        Thank you for the Northern Ireland info! I’d love to get up there but Mr._Swine is kind of “ehhh I don’t know if we have enough time?” so that is TBD. I will show him your list of all the cool things it offers. 🙂

        1. _bartleby +3

          Ireland has a lot of historical and cultural import to see, but Northern Ireland is denser and more stunning in terms of landscape, in my very humble Irish opinion!

          1. HGK

            Very much agreed! I think it’s often overlooked by tourists planning trips to Ireland, and it bums me out because they are missing some of the most stunning parts of the island. Not to mention, great food, whiskey, music, and people! 🙂

          2. fishesinthetwee +2

            My wife and I were in Dublin and then went straight to Northern Ireland a few years back – it was breathtakingly beautiful. I’d go back in a minute.

        2. seriousmoonlite +4

          As another former Belfast resident (and holder of an MA in Irish Studies), I second HGK’s recs. And I will add that Dunluce Castle — on the north coast, just down the road from Giant’s Causeway — is stunning. Don’t miss Northern Ireland!

          1. HGK

            Yes! Dunluce!!! So many neat old ruins to be seen in NI, but Dunluce is definitely the most stunning. How it’s just kind of perched on the cliffs there is amazing.

            Did you get your MA at QUB, by any chance?

        3. HGK +1

          I think this just means that you have to extend your trip… 😉 Obviously, I stan for NI *hard* but I will also say that I had numerous friends from the US who came to visit while I lived there and they all also loved NI. There is so much amazing stuff in such a small area, I would hate for you to miss it.

      2. daisicles +3

        Ohhh, you’re making me miss NI and Belfast in particular like mad. Belfast is my favorite city.

        1. HGK +1

          Yeah, typing this out this morning really hit me in the nostalgia feels. Belfast is a terrific, interesting place, though oft-overlooked, and I so wish I still lived there…

          1. daisicles +2

            All the foreigners I knew in Belfast loved it. I can understand why people from NI might have mixed feelings about the province because I think it can be a very hard place – I have a lot of stories about routine bus searches and train evacuations – but I think as a result, people have worked really hard to make it good.

            I just love it, I do. I visited again last summer but sadly I got sick and couldn’t do as much as I wanted, so it’s like my itch didn’t get scratched.

    7. hapsatou +5

      I would suggest you pick a region or two regions to visit because it takes awhile to get around and unless you want to spend a ton of time on your vacations driving on very narrow country roads. A lot of Americans try to see everything between Kerry and Belfast and that’s not really feasible in a two week/10 day framework.

      On nature I love hiking in Wicklow, it’s near to Dublin and you often get views of the hills and the sea. Also I will plug http://boynevalleyactivities.ie/ near Trim, Co. Meath for fun outdoor activities!

      If you’re around September 4th that’s the All Ireland Hurling Championship which is a big sporting event and if you like sports at all it’s worth reserving that afternoon to be in a pub (any pub they will all be showing the match) and watching “the fastest sport in the world.”

    8. jenavira +3

      It is a long way from Dublin but the greatest place I have ever been is Clew Bay. (I mean probably don’t trespass in the middle of the night and get your car stuck in somebody else’s mud driveway on your way to see it like I did, but it’s pretty frigging cool.)

      I highly recommend just stopping at pubs in random small towns and asking after the coolest thing nearby. There is always something cool, you probably won’t run into as many other people, and you get to have pub food.

      1. speakingofcake +2

        Yes Clew Bay is gorgeous! And watched over by Croagh Patrick, a very steep mountain that some people *still* climb in their bare feet for Catholic penance aaargh

    9. catweazlol +3

      I, the most cynical hater on the planet, had an amazing time at Blarney Castle. Sure it’s a tourist cliche and kissing the Blarney stone is sort of terrifying and involves letting an old white man hold you but the grounds are so beautiful and magical.

      I did a three-day tour when I went last fall and also saw the Ring of Kerry and the Cliffs of Moher which were both very cool. I wish we could have spent more time in Killarney National Park (we really only had time to look at Torc Waterfall) so please live my dreams for me!

      1. Battle_Swine +3

        Ok, I’m glad you brought this up, because I wanted to be like “Hey, what about the Blarney stone?” but was afraid of being laughed off the thread because dorky tourist is dorky.

      2. anthemyst +6

        Right next to the Blarney castle is the POISON GARDEN and it is a treasure for those of us who are witches in our hearts, which I assume is everyone on this website

    10. hummingrose +1

      I went for a week in September a couple of years ago and did a five-day Dingle hike offered by Hillwalk Tours (five days really only includes three full days of walking). If you’re into nature/vistas etc., I would highly recommend doing something similar; I’m already starting to think about when I may be able to go again.

    11. _bartleby +9

      Dublin itself is fine, maybe a couple days of sightseeing. I love Galway much more! There’s not much to see between them, so I’d suggest detouring down toward Cork and Limerick and more southern destinations if you’re going to end up driving to both cities. But get yerself up to the Giant’s Causeway, it’s gorgeous and worth it. As an Irish person, it’s my favorite, even if it is in Northern Ireland.

      Also, lots of people say this, but the people and culture and hospitality is really the main reason to go. Visit friends and family if you have them, make friends on the Internet if you don’t, ask around at the dingiest-looking pub what’s fun to do around town (and accept a tea/dinner/supper/craic invite if you get one!).

      Be careful driving =)

      1. Battle_Swine +2

        I am so, so excited to make friends with the people there. A couple of my cousins went last year and stayed exclusively at tiny little inns and B&Bs, and their stories of the people who ran them are wonderful.

    12. ladyimogen +2

      I really loved Donegal! The Slieve League cliffs make for a fantastic walk and there is a town called Glencolmcille that is really wonderful.

  14. logicbutton +18

    Looking forward to spending the sick day I’m taking because I felt completely out of sorts all of yesterday with all of you here!

  15. Queerblood +5

    Toasties, any experience with early menopause / primary ovarian insufficiency? A side helping of queer gender in my case. Going anon for this.

    1. beachlass +4

      I’m perimenopausal in my mid 40s, so not early, but there are a few of us around who are perimenopausal or menopausal. We were chatting in last week’s OT. (p1, about halfway down)

  16. themuseummagpie +90

    I have a job interview later this afternoon and could use some really good vibes! This job could change my life.

    3. sluts4ever +4

      Deep breaths! Practice saying your answers out loud! You are gonna do great!!!!!

  17. lady_moods +180

    I got engaged this weekend! My now-fiance and I went to the island where we had our first vacation, and he proposed in the Stavkirke there. I was thinking of what to write in the guestbook and he said, “Write that today is the day we got engaged.” I turned around and he got on one knee :’) The ring is perfect (it’s one of the ones I picked out) and the day was gorgeous and we had champagne on the beach after!

    Toasties, tell me your engagement stories!

    2. urspostrophe +29

      Congratulations!!! That’s super sweet.

      I got engaged the night my sister got married. Then-boyfriend and I were getting undressed to go to bed after the wedding and just kind of decided that it was going to happen. But we kept our engagement a secret for a few months so as not to steal my sister’s thunder.

    3. BestLaidPlans +59

      When my now-husband first tried to ask me to marry him at a lovely point high above Lake Michigan, I said to him, “Look at that couple over there! They’re getting engaged!” He had the ring in his hand in his pocket at that very moment and decided to wait another week to ask.

      1. lady_moods +12

        Haha! I love that! I was near Lake Michigan myself – the island was Washington Island, off Wisconsin’s Door Peninsula! Not sure how close you actually live to the area, but I’m sure the would-be proposal spot was gorgeous, and hopefully the real proposal spot was too 🙂

        1. BestLaidPlans +17

          We were on the opposite coast, up near Leland in Michigan. The next spot he picked was a little south but still on the lake. That time, I made him move to another location before he popped the question, because we were sitting on a bench next to a garbage can.

    4. Janesy +41

      I had to lead my husband into it. We were at his brother’s wedding and he was merrily telling stories about how when WE get married, we were going to do it in Vegas and blah blah blah. Up until that point, we hadn’t discussed getting married at all (we were doing the long-distance thing – me in Chicago, him in Australia). So the next day, the day I was leaving, I basically said “who’s WE, sucker” and asked him if he wanted to get married and he nodded. So I guess *I* proposed.

    5. bread_and_roses +28

      Congratulations!

      We didn’t do a proposal, because that’s not our kind of thing, but we took a walk in a really nice garden and talked about the future and I brought it up (we’d discussed marriage as a hypothetical, but this time we were both ready to say “yeah, now.”) Then we shopped for rings on Etsy.

    6. aravisthequeen +29

      I was sick on our anniversary, so the following week we went to dinner at a nice sushi place and I was incredibly nervous since I knew he had a ring and was planning to propose. But he didn’t until we got home and I was standing in our dingy living room in our 2-room basement apartment. He did go down on one knee and asked if I would be his wife, and I said “Well, yeah, of course!”

      My parents were very displeased at first, but we have been married 2 1/2 years now so they can suck it.

      1. Herberta1 +13

        Resignation is a beautiful thing…my in-laws got friendlier after they realized I wasn’t going away.

        1. aravisthequeen +19

          My parents and husband get along g very well now, but wow. Their actual reaction when I video called to show them the ring was “WHAT is THAT?”

      2. Unreadaethel +16

        My brother took his then-girlfriend out to dinner, and apparently got all misty-eyed when proposing. Her response was “duh.” They’re perfect.

    8. irishbreakfasttime +49

      yay, congrats! What a sweet story!

      I was hiking with my sweetie in a pretty park and when we sat down to rest I thought, “this would be a perfect time for a proposal….ok, he’s not gonna do it, I should do it…ok, whoa, I’M not gonna do it out here in public…huh, I guess I just decided to propose. Let me plan something fun!” For the next two weeks he kept narrowing his eyes at me and saying I looked like I was up to something, but he never suspected that “come straight home after work, I made a pie” actually meant “come straight home after work, I made a pie in a pretty new pie dish and set the table all nice and put a fancy beer on ice and I’m gonna ask you something.”

    9. lady_moods +44

      Also I have been engaged once before, to my high school/college sweetheart. I proposed to him in our disgusting flea-ridden studio apartment, and he only said yes because “we’d be getting married eventually” and he “didn’t want to say no.” My family was devastated when I told them. YIKES GOOD THING I DIDN’T GO THROUGH WITH THAT ONE

    10. lemonadefish +37

      he asked me what i wanted for christmas, and i said, an engagement ring. and his eyes got real big, and he said OH. then i picked out some rings i liked, but he didn’t want to pick the wrong one, so i picked one out and he bought it for me.

      much romance!

      1. lady_moods +28

        It is romantic! My short and sweet version of my story is v romantic, but it leaves out the part where I told him last August I expected to be engaged within a year, all the times we went ring shopping, all the texts I sent him with pictures of rings, and his recent hospitalization during which he realized it was time! I think that two adults making big decisions together is a super ~romantic~ thing to do, esp when it’s deciding to GET MARRIED!

        1. znfchick +3

          Yes! Having one partner spring a surprise proposal on the other and then expect them to have an answer right away is very unfair.

    11. kaylaelisabethblog +26

      We had mutually decided to engage ourselves after several discussions- but we did it without rings.
      Since I have zero romantic bones in my body- I just gave him his ring at home.
      He had planned something a bit more romantic, and was planning on taking me to dinner and to the river to surprise me (I didn’t know he had bought a ring yet.) and did the whole thing out- and nonchalantly tried to get me to go out to dinner.
      but because I’m oblivious I told him I’d rather just stay home and eat pizza rolls while watching food network and Vikings.
      He ended up asking the next day when he could actually get me to leave the house while we had a lunchtime picnic per our usual Sunday routine.

      It was still perfect though and the fact that my introverting got in the way of his surprise was hilarious in its own way.

    12. viviennestreet +39

      My parents’ story is pretty funny. My mom was interning at a law firm in the city at the time. She had to wear pantyhose, a skirt, and heels. She HATES all of those things, so as soon as she’d come home she’d sit on the couch and start stripping. Dad decided this was a good time (tbh, he’s terrible at being patient when he’s excited about something, he’d probably bought the ring that day and couldn’t stand it any longer) and approached her holding one single rose. Handed it to her, saying “Be careful of the thorns.” Mom’s like, yeah, ok. He’s like, no, Be Careful Of The Thorns. She’s like, I’m fine, chill. He’s like, no, just look at the thorns! She looked, and the engagement ring was taped to the stem.

      1. Fluffernutter +16

        LOL some dudes just can’t wait for an appropriate moment, but it always makes for a cute story 🙂

    13. robindavisdesign +38

      Congratulations!

      My fiance and I got engaged because, uh, we were on a ten hour drive to West Virginia and we were bored and had nothing to talk about so we decided to plan a wedding. Yeah.

      We’d been together for 7 years at that point and had occasionally talked about it before but generally neither of us had cared enough to bother. Now the person whose house we were driving to on that day is going to be our officiant in a few months.

    14. hopelessshade +39

      My fellow pulled me aside–during what in hindsight was clearly a romantic set-up–and told me that if I wanted to propose, he had the ring in his pocket.

      Which was exceptionally smart of him, because we had already agreed that I was going to do the Formal Asking, but he had figured out that if it was truly all left up to me I would go “oh, you know, whenever” forever.

    15. ayelltee +25

      Congratulations!

      We got engaged on the tenth anniversary of the day we met. We made reservations at a nice restaurant. I asked him if we should exchange presents, seeing that it was ten years, and he said, “yeah, but something small” which I interpreted as “inexpensive.” I bought him a book of Dilbert cartoons. He gave me a ring. About the ONLY time in our relationship that he’s gotten past my paranoid, suspicious, crafty “can’t put anything over on ME” self!

    16. Fluffernutter +58

      I actually gasped out loud at your story. That is so romantic!!!

      My dude took me to our local art house cinema (where several of our friends worked) to see a movie. He ushered me to into a theater where another movie was wrapping up. After the credits rolled and everyone had exited the theater, a movie HE made came on-screen! There were pictures of us from our years together intercut with pictures of him holding signs, and the last one said, “Will you make one more of my dreams come true?” And then he got down on one knee. So sweet it makes sugar taste just like salt.

      The best part was the old lady that stayed in her seat because she had no idea what was going on! She watched our whole engagement and was like, “I hope I didn’t intrude, but I’m so happy I got to see that!”

    17. wakatopatopa +35

      Yours is such a good story!

      My husband and I were at an Eddy Current Supression Ring show and we’re talking about how he had started skateboarding again. I told him I was worried that he was going to break his collarbone or something and how we would be bankrupted since he didn’t have insurance. I told him that it was okay though, I could just leave him and since we weren’t married he could just keep the debt. He said “or we could get married so I can get on your health insurance.”

      SO ROMANTIC

      Four year anniversary is Saturday.

    18. mrsworms +36

      My husband and I met on the internet, in a chatroom, when we were 12. We picked up conversations again at 16 when he was cleaning out his email inbox, and never stopped talking. I flew over to New Zealand to meet him in person at 19 (by myself!) and then he flew back the following summer to meet my family. After that visit there really wasn’t a formal proposal, but we both mutually decided we would get married and started the fiancé visa process. He gave me my engagement ring (I told him if he had to get me a ring, it needed to be less than $20 with all the expenses we had regarding immigration, and he complied with a beautiful paua shell ring that he found at the airport on the way over to marry me) about a week before our wedding–which was eight years ago today! 🙂

    19. gripyfish +41

      I’ve told mine a few times here before, but it’s always fun to tell again: For our five-year anniversary, I’d made reservations at a super-popular restaurant downtown, and was planning to casually suggest that we go for a walk in the park nearby afterwards, so I could propose and hopefully not be too awkward or ridiculous. By the end of the meal, it was raining, we were stuffed, and we really just wanted to go home, so I figured it would be just as okay if I proposed at our apartment.

      When we got home, I stayed in our bedroom for a bit, trying to calm my nerves so I wasn’t completely weird when the time came. Until my now-fiancee walked in and was like, “I had a really great time tonight,” at which point I burst into tears and asked her if she wanted to go on adventures with me forever. I hadn’t even gotten the ring out of my bag or anything.

      I’m just glad she said yes.

    21. diaryofamadeditor +31

      Congrats!! That sounds so beautiful.

      I threw myself into bed after a rotten day at work, still in my work clothes. Then Mr. Editor went into his top drawer & pulled out a ring box. He tucked into bed with me and opened the box that had several rings in it and said “well, this should cheer you up.” Evidently, all of his relatives had wanted me to choose among their rings. I ended up picking one that belonged to his great grandmother that his grandmother had put aside for me. The proposal wasn’t planned. It was just…a part of our life. The romance of introverts.

      1. lady_moods +12

        That is very sweet! I bet your ring is beautiful 🙂
        I definitely understand the introvert thing…I made it very clear ahead of time I didn’t want any other people involved in our moment. It was in a public place but he waited until it was empty. Apparently he had several options on the island for location but it was such a nice weekend, they were all too packed with people, LOL

    22. Katiezog +7

      Congrats!!! As a fellow recent engagee, enjoy this lovely, non-wedding-planning time.

      1. lady_moods +13

        Thank you! Congrats to you as well! Part of me wants to dive into wedding planning, and another part is like, “Why does everyone keep asking if we’ve set a date when we literally got engaged 2 days ago?!”

    23. hussified +11

      We got engaged the day after my brother and SIL’s wedding in Hawaii. My SIL told my now-husband he would be a fool not to use the opportunity of being in paradise to pop the question. We kayaked out to Popoia(Flat) Island on Oahu’s windward side and he did it there. Good times.

    24. bocadelperro +24

      Congratulations!!

      Mr. Delperro blurted out to me “I want to buy you an engagement ring but you have such specific taste in jewelry!” I said “wait. Are you asking me to marry you?” He said “I guess so!”

      A month later, he proposed “for real,” antique art nouveau filligree ring in hand.

    25. SingArielSing +30

      Oh my god, congratulations! That’s SO exciting, and what an absolutely beautiful proposal. I’m so happy for you both!

      My now-husband and I had just moved in to our first place together, and it was my 21st birthday about a week later. For my birthday, he planned an amazing day and took us all over town, checking out every cool bar he thought I would like, going to antique stores, eating delicious food, walking and exploring our new city and talking for hours. (One of the places we went to for the first time together that day ended up being the venue for our wedding!) It was a perfect day, and we wound it down at a little bar we both liked close to our apartment. It had a back room with some pool tables, and it was empty, so we decided to go back there and play for a little while. Now, we had talked earlier in the summer about how neither of us had ever gotten the silly “Do you like me? Yes No Maybe” notes in school, and how maybe they were just a product of the media and they didn’t really exist. So after we finished our game, I walked over to take a sip of my drink, and I turned back around and he was standing behind me, holding out a folded piece of paper and a pen. I took it and opened it, and it said, “Will you marry me? Yes No Maybe” I looked at him, my eyes wide, and said, “Are you serious?” And he nodded. So I checked the box next to “Yes,” and we laughed, and cried a little, and kissed, and I remember just being perfectly blissful. When we cashed out, the bartender asked how our night had been, and my husband said, “It was great! We just got engaged!” And the bartender’s jaw dropped and she yelled, “HOLY SHIT, really?!” It was pretty funny. We finished the night at home with cheap champagne bought from the WinCo across the street. It was the first I’d ever had, and it tasted wonderful.

      Almost six years later, that note is still displayed on our dresser.

    26. ladyimogen +20

      My husband proposed while muddle-headed after taking nyquil, in bed, in a lovely hostel in Beijing. There was another person in the room but I think she slept through it! We picked out a $7 ring in Tibet a few weeks later to make it more official, and just celebrated our 8th wedding anniversary this winter.

    27. Beakses +15

      Congrats!

      Ours was a process- we spent a week in Amsterdam after having been apart for three months, and he mentioned that he had thought it might be a good time to propose but that he hadn’t found a ring he thought was correct for me (which was extremely perceptive as I also could not find an engagement ring that worked for me and we wound up forgoing the thing entirely).

      So we spent our vacation wandering around the city discussing how we’d like our engagement to go- he wanted an actual physical exchange of items and an event to point to, I didn’t really care but wanted to exchange equal items if we were going to. We settled on piggy banks, because reasons, and several months later actually purchased some exchanged them. And then a few weeks later the company he worked for was bought out and we had the rare experience of seeing private stock options turn into actual money, and eloped before the end of the year because taxes. So the piggy bank choice was perhaps more apt than we had anticipated.

    28. houblonchouffe +27

      Congrats!! I love your story!

      I actually did the formal proposing! We’d been talking about it and looking at rings together (we each got an engagement ring) for a few months, so on our dating-anniversary weekend, I took him to a local winery to listen to some bluegrass and drink chilled rosé on the lawn, then on a schooner outing for beer and pizza, and as we got underway and under sail, I asked if he remembered The Worst Monday.

      [The Worst Monday was the second Monday we knew each other. We met on a Saturday night when he sat in my section to have dinner with some friends and then invited me to sit down with them when I got off shift and have a glass of wine. I said that would be terribly inappropriate and thanked him for asking, finished my shift, and they were still there, so I got my own damn glass of wine and sat down with the three of them and said, “Well, you did invite me.” And we had a fantastic one-night stand. But we were both kind of involved in other free-form stuff at the time, so when he left the next morning for a work trip, we exchanged numbers and FB contact info and figured that was it. Through that work trip, we texted and had late-night conversations and decided we’d hang out when he got back. He came over and we played house for a weekend and on Monday morning, we were supposed to go back to our respective free-form stuff and complicated lives. I left for work and couldn’t stop crying for the entire day, it was a bazillion degrees in the middle of July, we texted each other constantly for the whole day and I finally asked him how this was the worst breakup I’d ever had, and he replied with “This isn’t a breakup, this is bloody self-immolation” and then I ate a pint of chocolate ice cream and cried more and smoked all the cigarettes. Little did I know he was doing more or less the same thing sitting across town, until about 9 that night when he said, “This is ridiculous, can I come over?” and he did, and he never left and we had keys made for him the next day.]

      ANYWAY tl;dr I asked him to never have The Worst Monday again and handed him his ring and we kissed and cuddled on the boat and it was really lovely and very low-key and then we had a lovely and low-key wedding and yeah.

    29. actualmeg +10

      Congratulations!!

      My fiance and I had been together for nine years and I’d brought up marriage a few times, but he kept saying he didn’t really see why it was important. So after explaining why it was important to me, I told him that the ball was now in his court, he knew my feelings, and if he ever came around he should let me know.

      A few months later, he asked me to make sure I had a particular Saturday free. It was close to both of our birthdays so I figured he had planned something for that. That morning, he brought me coffee in bed, let me finish my first cup (he knows I am USELESS without caffeine and cannot be trusted to make major life decisions until fully awake), brought out a small ring and a box of slightly stale pastries from Au Bon Pain (the chain cafe where we’d had our first date), and asked me to marry him.

      The rest of the day included:

      a) a couples’ massage at a fancy spa
      b) a surprise engagement party of about 15 people waiting for us back at our apartment
      c) a reservation at a restaurant I’d been meaning to go to for months
      d) at the very end of the evening, his great-grandmother’s ring, which he’d been keeping back as an extra surprise (the ring he gave me that morning was intended as a placeholder, and I’d assumed that we’d pick out something together later)

      I had NO SUSPICION that he had been planning any of this. I think I might be marrying a ninja.

    30. mooocheller +8

      Congrats!!!!!!!!!!

      I proposed to my husband! On his birthday, he drove to our favorite bakery to get pastries like he does every Saturday. While he was gone, I put on my most twirly vintage dress and decorated our apartment with the watercolor signs I had made the night before. When he got home, I played him a youtube video of me performing “Marry You” on ukulele (because I knew I would be too nervous to get through it if I played it in person) with the lyrics changed to be about us (they were extremely cheesy). Then I sobbed my way through a lot of sappy things and asked him to marry me. He said yes! I used a plastic ring from a diet coke bottle cap–we played around with it when we discussed getting married a few weeks before the proposal. We’ve been married for about a year, and he still wears that ring 🙂

      He LOVES that I proposed to him, but we still get plenty of “SO, he was dragging his feet, eh? *wink wink*” type comments.

      1. truffleuffagus +1

        Ahhhh!!! This one actually made me burst into happy tears. Go you! I love the pre-videoed song idea. Very smart. :D:D:D

    31. znfchick +6

      Congratulations!
      Mr. ZNF and I are very pragmatic peope and didn’t want to get married during the school year, so once we knew we wanted to, we chose the month before school started, counted back from there (Mr. ZNF: “What’s the least amount of time we can plan a wedding in? Five months?”) and then set a date to get engaged. 🙂 so I knew it was coming. It was too windy to go to our favourite walking path where we liked to talk, so we went to a coffee shop instead. We were both smiling a lot, and a llittle nervous, and he took my hand across the table and said, “I don’t have a ring because I know you want to pick it out, and I’m not going to kneel, but… want to get married?”
      Reader, I married him. 🙂 best decision I ever made because now I get to live with my best friend. It is so good.

    32. truffleuffagus +2

      Congrats! What an adorable story. Cheers to a whole lifetime of happiness for you two. 🙂

      My husband and I were out ski touring and I had just finished pulling up my snowpants after a sneaky forest pee. My husband said “I need to talk to you. I don’t think I want you to be my girlfriend anymore. <LONG PAUSE> … I want you to be my wife!”

      I went from nearly having a heart attack to crying with joy. Real emotional spectrum in the course of ten seconds, haha. Also, it was Christmas day. Great gift! Together almost ten years now and married for two of ’em.

  18. nicolescchung +77

    We need a new babysitter since ours graduated from college and has a new FT job (I swear I’m happy for her and not weeping at all), and I’m *really* hoping I don’t scare off the only promising candidate (so far) when we meet her this week. I don’t actually know how many hours we can give her given the whole looming unemployment thing, but I really want this to work out! Having a kid on the spectrum means we can’t just go with any old caregiver; they have to have the right attitude and temperament and be able to really focus on helping her develop communication, and she has to really, really LIKE them. PLEASE I JUST NEED A BABYSITTER SO I CAN GO DO THINGS SOMETIMES.

    1. NicoleCliffe +36

      Oh, noooooooooooooo I am so here with you, it is like online dating but somehow a much bigger deal.

      1. nicolescchung +21

        It’s ridiculous how stressed I am about this. Remember last summer, when I had three different part-time sitters on rotation?? NONE of them are available this summer.

        1. Period_eye +18

          Nope, not ridiculous at all. Sending all good babysitter vibes your way. Childcare (time spent acquiring, cost of, quality of) occupies too much of my head a lot of the time and basically induces hives.

    2. bookwormV +8

      Good luck! I hope you find someone who is a good fit. Your children sound great, and I hope all potential babysitters think so too.

    3. wakatopatopa +23

      A spot opened up at a college-run daycare that my husband and I wanted to get our daughter into (because of all the early childhood development/education students the ratio is like, one on one) much earlier than we expected and so we had to have that discussion last night.

      When we came home from the hospital I was like HOW ARE THEY GIVING US THIS BABY WE DON’T KNOW WHAT WE ARE DOING THIS IS SO HARD, but that was STUPID because that is not the hard part, this is the hard part.

      Good luck with the sitter. If she wants references I know a place where there are like two thousand people who will give you a great one.

    4. bocadelperro +10

      Fwiw, I strongly doubt you’ll be unemployed for long (provided you want another job)

    5. wondertwin2 +5

      If you need/want inspiration and haven’t tried these things already (or if any other Toasties have a similar problem and are reading this very late comment), there might be undergrads who work in autism labs and/or study speech-language pathology at nearby universities who would be interested in this type of gig and be good with kids on the spectrum.

  19. ophelias_ghost +28

    Oh lovely Toasties I am very nearly done with my final paper of the semester (just need to add endnotes and citations!) and I cannot wait to be home.

    A of all, I just started watching The Americans and oh my god Keri Russell – how is she so beautiful and captivating??? Also her character’s birth name is the Russian form of MY name so we are OBVIOUSLY the same person.

    B of all, I am finally going to have some time to start reading books for pleasure again! What was your favorite book you read last year? (Female or WOC authors preferred)

    C of all, I just want to exclaim that I have received two lovely pieces of Toast Post – I promise I will send mine out as soon as I am home and have an iota of free time. I love you all!

    1. irishbreakfasttime +5

      ahhhhh end of school high-five! what a great feeling.

      hmmm favorite recent reads, filtered by WOC author: The Fifth Season, A Stranger in Olondria, Silver Sparrow, The Turner House, Everything I Never Told You.

    2. Xolandra +3

      The Stone Collection, by Kateri Akiwenzie-Damm. Joseph Bouden called her the most promising up and coming Aboriginal writer on the Canadian scene, and boy-howdy, does she ever not need the qualifier. Perhaps the best book I have EVER read.

    3. erinkwed +2

      The Turner House by Angela Flournoy — just came out in paperback and is SO GOOD.

    4. allanaaa +1

      I’m on a vaguely plague/witch trend, so Geraldine Brooks – Year of Wonders and Hannah Kent – Burial Rites.

    5. whizzdumb +2

      The Americans is such a very good TV show and none of my friends have seen it despite telling them to for about a year now. I’m starting to be a dick about it. “You still haven’t seen it? I told you to! Fuckin watch that shit and enjoy it you idiots!” Sorry I swear when I get worked up.

    6. Hannah Richards +1

      Okay, I have no idea what “reading for pleasure” means to you, exactly, but I do know that every summer I go on a medieval fantasy binge, so naturally I can’t recommend enough The Lays of Marie de France (by her, ahaha, naturally), and the actual first novel ever in the history of the world: The Tale of Genji by Murasaki Shikibu aka Lady Murasaki. Also technically any collection of fairy tales/folk tales could’ve been thought up by a woman, originally. And if that’s not enough for you, then you ought to know that although The Colored Fairy books series is listed as edited by Andrew Lang, actually all he did was decide which stories to include. Most of them are actually translated and copy edited by his wife (and those that weren’t were done by others, not Andrew Lang at all), whose name is naturally never listed, so if you need that feminine touch, those values women hold dear, or a woman’s perspective, subtly etched upon the nature of the fairy tales and folk tales you read, give that series a try! Because actually they should’ve listed her as a the primary editor, and him as some kind of after thought.
      Anywho, if that sounds like work rather than fun, or whatever, then I guess I can’t help you. Unfortunately, I haven’t read any adult fantasy/scifi novels released after the 80s – not b/c I don’t want to, I just haven’t. And most of the scifi/fantasy of the 70s-80s is pretty full of white guys, as I’m 100% sure you’re aware.
      And my sister watches The Americans! I haven’t, yet. I don’t have cable, Amazon Prime, Hulu+, OR Netflix, so I literally cannot watch anything unless and until it hits my local library, which varies from one and a half years after it airs, to never. soooooooooooo ¯_(ツ)_/¯

  20. tragicallyludicrous +19

    Ooo, an open thread. Good.

    Um…so my supervisor has a grant to hire more PhD candidates to work on a film tourism project, and he’s thinking about maybe having one of them be on African-American film(ish) tourism to West Africa (the original idea was Nollywood tourism in Nigeria, but he’s apparently had trouble finding candidates, I don’t know where he’s looked though). Do we as a collective know anyone who would be interested? It would (I think) involve moving to the Netherlands for 4 years, but it’s paid and in English. I can provide more details obviously. It’s a pretty good opportunity and I’d like to see it go to someone who can make it really good.

      1. tragicallyludicrous +3

        Will definitely do so once we have a new description of the project written up!

  21. TylerJay90 +15

    Toasties, in spite of the looming threat of the super earthquake, I am going to Seattle for two weeks very soon! I have friends who live there but I have no idea what is a must-see and what are some hidden treasures and whatnot. I would love to hear some recommendations!

    1. loren_smith +3

      What sort of things do you like? I can tell you a lot about places to eat Mexican food and dive bars in Ballard, if that is your jam.

        1. loren_smith +2

          I guess I mainly know Ballard – http://lacartadeoaxaca.com/ for dinner. For drinks I love the Sloop, The Lockspot, and hilariously, the Ballard Loft (full of college kids, but has shuffleboard). Ballard Beer Company can be fun, too!

          1. TylerJay90

            These sound great! I’m going to be hanging out locals but I’m going to ask them to take me to some of these places. They sound great!

        1. lemonack +2

          As someone who grew up in California, I really like Mezcaleria Oaxaca and Fogon (both on Pine St). AFAIK you can’t get really good dirt-cheap fast-food Mexican here, but you can get quite good sit-down restaurant Mexican.

    2. sausagedog +3

      So I don’t live there, but get to visit somewhat frequently, and all I have to say is that the line at Il Corvo is 200% worth it, as in, I would wait for their pasta even if the line were twice as long. (The line moves pretty fast and they’re good about clearing tables, so don’t be intimidated.)

    3. sfbeee +3

      i ate at the walrus & the carpenter and it was absolutely delightful, highly recommend.

    4. Teev +4

      Archie McPhee’s! Also it may seem cliche but take a ferry ride the ferry is fun. I don’t know where you are from and what is old hat or great stuff for you, but we have lots of lovely nature options here that are not too much of a drive (and even lovelier ones if you drive farther). Alpine lakes, temperate rainforest, saltwater beaches and more. We also have a great drag community and June is Pride Month so there should be lots going on.

      1. TylerJay90 +2

        I’m from Southwest Florida, so Seattle will be very different! I’m so excited to go hiking and experience the queer community.

        1. Teev +1

          Re-Bar and Pony are my favorite queer bars. Rebar is a Seattle institution, I cannot tell you how many queer people have told me the story of how it was the first bar they came to when they got to Seattle. Full disclosure, I work there, but it truly is an awesome place and you should check it out.

      2. whollyword +1

        Seconding Archie McPhee’s, especially if you have any young relatives. I very nearly bought a gross of miniature rubber chickens. Given that my brother today sent me a pic of his oldest wearing a sparkly eye mask and a rubber chicken and dancing like there was no tomorrow, I should have.

        I’d also like to recommend the fish ladder at the Ballard lock and dam, especially if there are any fish expected to be headed upstream during your visit: http://www.nws.usace.army.mil/Missions/CivilWorks…

    5. theneedleandthe +1

      Foodwise I looove The Walrus and the Carpenter, or their sister restaurant Narwhal, Naka, Stateside, and Cafe presse. Brunch is cheap and fun at Glo’s. For drinks I recommend Naka, Knee High Stocking Co, and Canon. For a dive bar experience try the Cha Cha or the Unicorn, or possibly Linda’s if you like your cheap beer with a side of Kurt Cobain mythology!

    6. theneedleandthe +2

      Oh def check out gasworks park, maybe the experience music project, and the market! If you’re a coffee nerd I can also suggest some stuff!

    7. seriousmoonlite +2

      The Crumpet Shop is delightful and delicious. I structure most of my day trips to Seattle around it.

  22. khaleesibrarian +22

    Discussion of Nicole’s CT article thread here? Was hoping to see it in Link Roundup but I would love to see thoughts and lavish praise.

    1. speakingofcake +10

      I really enjoyed it. I’m not a believer, but I’m always interested in thoughtful, compassionate people’s experiences of the numinous.

        1. Heathered +5

          Oh, thank you for linking! I could never get the podcast discussion to open and was beginning to have a crisis of access to Nicole’s story of her faith! That was lovely, and a bit unsettling to some weird, unidentified, rosary-utilizing frequent-crier I know.

  24. CleverManka +10

    I went to a Fathom Events broadcast of the RSC’s Shakespeare Live! thing last night. Did anyone else see this? It was…odd. Some parts were amazing (Judi Dench’s Titania, Alex Hassel’s Henry/Prince Hal, Catherine Tate’s dress) and some parts were just terrible (the opening West Side Story number, Mariah Gale in general, the Falstaff opera). If you’re a giant Shakespeare nerd it was fine. I’m glad I went. Any other Toasties see it?

    1. Angelan_ +5

      I saw it on TV when it aired and my thoughts were that the “brush up your Shakespeare ” song is at least 200% longer than it needed to be. It never ends!

      1. CleverManka +2

        Right?!??! UGH. I started to lean over to one of my friends to say “is this song playing at, like, half time or what? it shouldn’t be this slow!” I mean that song should go by pretty much rat-a-tat-tat. And then the dude fucked up his lines and I was all “oh, that’s why they were playing it so slow.”

    2. ladyimogen +5

      Manka I got the Always Be Too Witches toast post from you and I actually screamed out loud with delight. When you posted pictures last week I just whispered to myself “let it be for me, let it be for me,” but didn’t believe I could be so lucky.

    1. Frenz_lo +18

      Yesterday my husband and I had our dog euthanized, due to temperament/behavior issues that had been going on more or less since we got him three years ago. We tried many things, including training, dog classes, many kinds of socialization, and multiple meds. He was so goofy and affectionate within our family, but dangerous to anyone outside our family. His issue was fear, and fear-based aggression, as well as a threshold issue that made the times when he would strike out to bite unpredictable. We walked him with a muzzle on every single walk for the last year or so, and tethered him on a long, light cable every time we let him into the backyard (because he could jump a 4′ fence from a standing start, and bit someone walking down the alley once.)
      We had successfully kept him from hurting anyone for two years, but we realized that perfect management not going to be possible the older our child gets, and perfect management was going to be necessary forever, in addition to all the meds, training, and socialization.
      I miss him so much already. Our vet was so nice, and helped us time sedatives to minimize his fear and agitation, but I am so fucking sad.

      1. jennycieplak +17

        Oh gosh. I am so sorry. Many, many hugs to you. I’m glad you made a decision that was right for you and your family. I hope someday you can adopt another dog, if that ends up being what you want.

        1. Frenz_lo +2

          Thank you. We had two dogs, so we’re down to one now. So far, she is holding up OK, but seems kind of confused. The dog that died looooooved her, and she kind of tolerated him, but I think she will still miss him a bit.

      2. CleverManka +14

        Oh, bb, that is so sad and difficult and I can’t even imagine. You all are in my thoughts today.

      3. newglasses +14

        I’m sorry to hear about your dog. It’s always hard to make that decision, but sometimes there’s nothing else you can do. You tried, and that is much more than many people do, and he had three years of love, again, that’s much, much more than many animals have!

        It’s always sad.

        1. Frenz_lo +1

          I am trying to tell myself that he had a lifetime of love, and the best ending we could give him. It’s still stupid and hard. Anyway, thank you.

      4. beyoncepadthai1 +7

        I’m so sorry <3 I feel you so hard, my cat died this weekend and I am devastated

        1. mkmorrow +4

          I also lost my cat to old age and kidney disease this weekend and I am sad sad sad. Support cat feelings.

      6. jwhittz +5

        I’m so sorry for your loss. It’s so hard to lose a pet, no matter the circumstances.

    2. thebellewitch +6

      I’m so sorry for what you’re going through. That’s a horrible decision to have to make, even when you know there’s nothing else you can do. Hugs to you.

  26. Frumiosa +27

    Hey all. After I left my shit job a few months ago, I did some pro bono training of my replacement regarding the organization’s annual benefit, because I still believe in the organization itself, just not my horrible ex-boss. I took time off from my brand new job to do this, as a goodwill gesture. So while I shouldn’t be, I’m a little surprised that the benefit time has rolled around and I haven’t gotten an invitation. I’m sure it’s just an oversight, but I still feel pissed, because I actually would really like to go and support the organization and see my old colleagues. There’s no way of asking them about it without seeming passive-aggressive. Maybe I’ll just swallow my pride and buy a ticket. Or just skip it entirely and move on. Blergh.

    1. brasspaperclip +12

      I don’t think it would be passive-aggressive to follow up and ask? It would be awkward, yes, but not passive aggressive. If it’s a fundraiser, though, for an organization you want to support, it might be better to just buy a ticket.

    2. _bartleby +8

      Can you email an ally at the organization, or their general address, and ask? You can phrase it like, “Hey, just checking in on when I should expect the invite. Is [venue/date/time] still right?” or some other pretense.

  27. AVincennes +34

    I need to write a short biography of myself for a conference talk, feel free to symphathise with me as though I just wrote, “I need to finish my first novel on the surface of Mars” because that is how this task feels.

    1. Apfelmoose +20

      “I need to finish my first novel on the surface of Mars” is a great short bio!

      2. AVincennes +14

        “Vincennes’ experience in the oxygen-rich atmosphere of Earth, as well as her naked and well-documented dislike of writing more than four sentences in a single sitting, have resulted in her enduring fascination with completing a major work on the ‘Red Planet’.”

    2. kallitropos +6

      ugh I know this feel, it is terrible! When I had to do something similar I basically copied the format the other speaker used- see if you can steal a peek at someone else’s and then run off with their format!

      1. AVincennes +5

        Thank you! I have done this and it made the task a LOT easier, not least because whilst I sound terrible the exercise caused me to realise that so does everyone else. In conclusion I hope it won’t stop people from coming to my talk.

    3. JauntyGhost +6

      Do you have a trusted friend that could help? I have a hard time with this stuff because writing things that could be seen as praising myself feels as unpleasant as diarrhea. Everything feels like bragging even if it’s just me stating facts. Spoiler Alrrt: it’s not and you’re great and you can do this!

      1. AVincennes +16

        Thank you for the kind words! I am weirdly on my own with this one – I run a department where I’m the only person who knows 100% of what I do (for sure something for me to work on in the second half of the year), and the one person who could help me with this I KNOW FOR A FACT is going to take a “teaching me to fish” approach on this rather than writing it for me.

        Instead I am thinking “what would a white man say if he had my achievements” and that makes me feel better about the str8 braggin that feels like it’s required.

        1. britomartian +14

          “what would a white man say if he had my achievements” is GENIUS and I am going to adopt it as an interview/CV-writing tip

    4. Sisyphus_Cog +1

      Gotta say I’m excited to read your novel about the surface of Mars and will be here for it when it drops!

    1. AVincennes +25

      The Iliad

      I n c r e d i b l y s l o w l y

      This was meant to be my “Year of Classics”, and this is the first one I’m reading, bit worried that I’m going to have to read nothing but the classics if I want to get through the other four things on my list.

      1. Gen_Gen +6

        Yay for reading the Iliad incredibly slowly, same here! I’m reading the Lombardo translation, and it’s great, but I can only do like fifty pages at a time, where I normally read even long books in no more than three sittings. It’s maddening, but at least I feel like I’m getting a good experience out of it, I guess.

        1. threatqualitypress +11

          yeah I really like the Lombardo translation, especially if you don’t have to like, do any kind of analysis with it or anything.

          2. threatqualitypress +7

            I’m not trying to be mean, but his translation is *really* loose, it’s terrible for anything like scholarship, but that’s part of what makes it actually a much better read than some of the other versions.

          3. britomartian +13

            I hear you! I am just easily amused and the “like” in your original comment killed me dead.

            Time for some Vlad:

            What is translation? On a platter
            A poet’s pale and glaring head,
            A parrot’s screech, a monkey’s chatter,
            And profanation of the dead.

        2. AVincennes +2

          Ha, fifty pages per sitting sounds great! I’m doing well if I make it through fifteen pages an hour. I’m on the Hammond, which is a prose translation and might be contributing to how odd it feels – it’s not a novel, and it doesn’t feel like a novel, but it looks a lot like a novel. I am enjoying it, though, and as you say it’s a good experience to have to concentrate so much.

          If you fancy reading The Odyssey incredibly slowly and also together, let me know.

          1. Scared_Vagina +3

            I am no classicist, but I read the EV Rieu translation of The Odyssey very quickly when I was 16 and it’s one of my all time favourite books.

          2. fallofasparrow +5

            Piping in to say how much I adore the Fagles translation. So readable & maintains so much beauty.

            (I deeply love the Iliad and have more than once considered painting a wall-sized mural of Hector’s farewell to Andromache in book 6 on my office wall)

        3. grumblyqueer +4

          I really want to be one of those purists who only ever reads the Alexander Pope version, which every hardcore classicist I’ve talked to says is The Best Truest Version, but I’m only highbrow enough for the Fitzgerald one. And I’ve been working my way through the Alemida’s live read of the Fagles translation, and while I hate it as the go-to Beginner Iliad, I can’t deny that it’s good for public recitation.

    2. bread_and_roses +9

      I just started The Summer Before the War by Helen Simonson, and so far it’s delightful.

      Also recently finished N.K. Jemisin’s The Fifth Season, which is AMAZING.

    3. cs_key +9

      I just finished Three Parts Dead by Max Gladstone, first in a series of Fantasy novels. It took me a while to get into the world-building, but I ended up loving it and am really looking forward to reading the next books. It’s sort of a legal thriller, but about resurrecting a deity? It sounds strange but is super fun. The protagonist is a young black woman, and she didn’t have a romantic subplot (yet), which I personally liked.

      1. misantree +7

        Lovelovelove the Craft sequence and as a lawyer was sold on the magic-as-contract-law-as-necromancy shiz immediately. I hope you enjoy the next books as well, the cast of thousands is so wonderfully diverse and uuuuuuuugh so good

      2. hlmorris85 +5

        I love the Craft sequence though I think I’m two books behind. The worldbuilding is so unexpected…it’s like urban fantasy, but not? *And* high fantasy, but not? All smushed together.

      3. jenavira +3

        I just reviewed that for my library’s blog! I need to get back into that series, I got distracted by other things but I adore it.

    4. ballisticjaguar +6

      Currently reading the In the Labyrinth of Drakes by Marie Brennan. Not too far but liking it so far!

    5. sausagedog +11

      I just started The Goldfinch. I enjoyed Secret History well enough so I thought I’d give it a shot, even though some people had told me it was “slow.” I suppose it is slow, since I haven’t even gotten through a day of the timeline yet, but wow does Donna Tartt ever know how to maintain tension! It is thrilling so far.

      1. rangiferina +11

        Hooray! I loved the Goldfinch wholeheartedly, though I feel like I’m probably in the minority here.

        1. swords-and-spindles +2

          Nope, I adore this book as well. There are so terrible, terrible heartbreaking parts in it, and yet its atmosphere is partly so beautiful that I just want to sink into the pages and live there.

        2. alula_auburn +2

          I liked it, too. I have a particular relationship with Secret History (I think I read it at exactly the right time vis a vis my late adolescence for it to work in a very visceral, imprint-y kind of way) but I enjoyed the Goldfinch (and parts of The Little Friend, although I remain ambivalent about it as a whole).

      2. illyria83 +3

        Just replying to say I loved The Goldfinch. It’s very much a YMMV kind of book, and it has several distinct parts of the story which are pretty different from each other. It takes some patience. But I was really glad I read it.

    6. irishbreakfasttime +3

      I just finished Mosquitoland, and I did not like it 🙁 I will drop it in my Books To Send Teenage Self time machine, but not until I’ve highlighted a few passages and written “this is really problematic, you don’t know that word yet but you will” in the margins. Teenage Self would have adored it.

      Starting my Harry Potter reread tonight! It’s book 5 this month, aaaargh feeeeelings.

    7. authorialfuries +12

      I just finished Relish: My Life in the Kitchen by Lucy Knisley in my ongoing attempts to find cookbooks that don’t read like instruction manuals to use for a book club. It was a delightful combination of art, life, and cooking.

      2. thebeagee +3

        Ooo, that’s on my to-read list! Any other cookbooks like that you can recommend, I’d love to check them out.

        1. authorialfuries +4

          I haven’t come across anything that is quite so heavy on the commentary and personal relationship with food like Relish (while still giving us a variety of recipes to try), which is a tragedy, but I’ll give you some standouts of the more cookbooky type.

          The Violet Bakery Cookbook by Claire Ptak has some nice commentary accompanying each recipe.

          For a more sciencey look at things The Food Lab by J. Kenji Lopez-Alt is great.

          As a displaced Texan (now in the midwest) I have a lot of love for Tacopedia by Deborah Holtz.

          For anything ice cream I live and die by Jeni’s Splendid Ice Creams at Home by Jeni Britton Bauer.

          Although it is more commentary than recipes, The Third Plate: Field Notes on the Future of Food by Dan Barber is an interesting read for our relationship with food and sustainability.

    8. Either_Ada +9

      The Professor and Lindy West’s new book, Shrill, and being surprised by both.

      For the first: I haven’t read it since a was a mere undergrad and remember being rather displeased by it, given I was mostly there for Jane Eyre-redux and thus was entirely disappointed. But now I think I’d stan for it as massively unappreciated–Brontë is doing things I wouldn’t expect from a novel of that date, and I suppose I relate more to grim realism than haunted-fire-romance now.

      For the second: How am I crying this much even though I have already read about half of it in internet format?

      1. urspostrophe +7

        I am also reading (er, devouring?) Shrill right now. It is so so good and I’m 3/4 through and I don’t ever want it to end.

    9. viviennestreet +5

      I’m trying to finish Murder in Montparnasse (it’s due at the library soon) and girding my loins for Consider Phlebas. I am determined to figure out what’s so great about the Culture books, aside from the great ship names.

      1. swords-and-spindles

        EVERYTHING is so great about the Culture books. Thanks for reminding me that I still haven’t bought all of them.

      2. YourEyesTheSea +2

        The Culture books are great because they’re a lot of fun: very inventive scenarios, lots of high-jinks in exotic places, interesting characters, witty story-telling – and with a solid engaging plot throughout.

      3. Hazel +1

        Eesh, that is not the best book to start with for the aforesaid figuring out, it barely involves any Culture characters and settings and is also generally not an amazing book. If you already have it and don’t want to put further time/money into it that’s completely understandable but if you have any choice I’d go for The Player of Games personally.

    10. hepcait +7

      Under the Banner of Heaven (pretty sure this was a Nicole Cliffe rec at some point)

    11. aqueousmedium +8

      I zipped through The Ballad of Black Tom by Victor LaValle over the weekend – it’s a tale of Lovecraftian horrors set in Jazz-Age New York; creepy and sad but also beautiful.

      Now reading Dead Wake: The Last Crossing of the Lusitania by Erik Larsona and it’s interesting but just sad. I can never read a disaster story without hoping that this time it will turn out okay for everyone.

      ETA oh wait! I also read Jane Steele, the retelling of Jane Eyre where Jane murders basically everyone who irks her. Super fun!

        1. aqueousmedium +14

          It’s actually set around Lovecraft’s “Horror At Red Hook”, which I have not read, but the protagonist is a young African American man who sells occult items to support himself and his father and who gets caught up in the machinations of a white sorcerer who wants to (what else?) wake eldritch horrors. It’s a really interesting rumination on power/lessness and a very elegant two-fingers-up to Lovecraft’s racism.

          1. Nerterology +3

            Hot damn, this is just getting further and further up my alley. I am putting in a request at my library today. Thank you!

      3. literarysara +2

        Sold! I really enjoyed Victor LaValle’s Big Machine, which is super weird yet I couldn’t put it down. Meanwhile, I never could bring myself to finish my Lovecraft collection, so I’d love to read someone else’s take on those stories.
        Update: OH DANG, The Ballad of Black Tom is for sale on Kindle for like $2.99

        1. literarysara +2

          Whoa whoa whoa Binti by Nnedi Okorakor and Shadowshaper by Daniel Jose Older were on for $2.99 too what is going on

    12. kilks401 +5

      Half of a Yellow Sun by Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie, which is really really good, but also just so sad at times, I’m having a hard time getting through it.

      1. roisindubh211 +3

        I’ve been trying to psych myself up to start this one properly, I’m almost afraid of how sad/grim I’m expecting it to be, if that makes sense?

        1. kilks401 +2

          it has moments of true levity. I don’t want to oversell how tragic it is, but it does have some real moments of violence.

      2. notebook-keeper +2

        that’s one of those books that I’m very glad I read but will probably never read again because it’s just so sad and dark (see also: An Untamed State)

    13. lemonadefish +4

      Waiting very impatiently for my turn to come up on Outlander book 7 at the library! I’ve read all the Lord John novellas, and the first six books obviously. I’ve tried a few recommended-as-related other historical romances while I wait, but I have not been excited about any of them.

      1. VioletandIrises +4

        I find it hard to get into anything time-travel related after Outlander. Bookbub suggests other romances with a vague time travel plot and my reaction is always “meh, it’s not going to be as good.”

        1. lemonadefish +2

          I am afraid there really might not be anything similar. I’m not a huge romance reader, but I have really enjoyed these – light enough to be thoroughly enjoyable, but not just all fluffy swooning and marrying a duke and all that nonsense…

    14. Theo_Winterwood +6

      I’m about to start Maplecroft for my book club. I’m 99% sure that someone on here had told me to read it at some point, so I’m glad I’ve finally been put in a position where I actually need to get around to doing that.

      I just finished the first volume of Afterlife with Archie and I cried at two different points. And I’m annoyed that the second trade doesn’t come out for awhile yet. (I also read the first trade of Mark Waid’s Archie reboot. Apparently I’m getting back into comics and somehow also getting into the whole new-and-improved Archieverse at the same time?)

      (I think about 90% of it is because Jughead is ace in the new comics. And he is amazing.)

    15. alliana07 +6

      The last of Catherynne Valente’s Fairyland books and gosh I forgot how much these books give me the feelings and how I end up wanting to highlight every other paragraph.

      1. alisaurus6 +2

        I read the first one of these while studying for my phd qualifying exam, and I still tear up every time I read the part about the bathhouse and needing to wash up your courage. She is so good at words!!

        Have you read her other book Deathless? It’s a retelling of a mishmash of Russian folk tales, and it is so so good.

    17. sigaloenta +8

      I’m reading A Place of Greater Safety (for my local Toast-y book club no less!) and I’m loving it! Hilary Mantel is such a genius about history and historicity and speech and getting inside people’s heads.

      I just finished Nicola Griffith’s Slow River, a near-future noir-y novel about a scion of technocratic privilege (but With Dark Secrets) who escapes from kidnappers and decides to disappear into the gritty (lesbian) hacker underworld of a northern English industrial city. Also brilliant.

      I also just started Ways to Disappear, by Idra Novey, which I am not loving so far, but I’ll give it more of a chance before I come to a definite decision.

      ETA: In the interests of full disclosure, I should also note that I have about 6 YA fantasy/dystopia/sci-fi novels checked out from the library, too.

      1. literarysara +1

        Help me love A Place of Greater Safety! I am such a shill for the Wolf Hall series, but I haven’t been able to get very far into the massive tome that is A Place. Is it because I don’t know enough about the French Revolution? Or because I keep trying to read it before bed? What rings your bell about it?

        1. sigaloenta +3

          I guess that, like in Wolf Hall, Mantel seems good at showing people trying to think about stuff in ways that will eventually have huge (…revolutionary…even) effects but is, for the moment, just someone trying to figure out how to come to terms with the world he lives in — except that, of course, we know that these weirdos and dirtbag teens (seriously though Camille Desmoulins is such a dirtbag teenager in the first 100 or so pages, isn’t he?) are going to become, eventually, iconic thinkers and writers and doers whose attempts to define the world will be Historically Significant. And they kind of know it, or at least suspect it that Something Big is Going to Happen, but of course everyone attributes more importance to his/her life than historians generally grant to people who aren’t a Big Historical Figures. So there’s this tension between the everyday and the momentous that I like a lot.

    18. sluts4ever +4

      I’m reading “Love Me Back” by Merritt Tierce. It’s sad. I need to stop reading sad books.

    19. swords-and-spindles +3

      I’m not reading anything new right now, which is a terrible situation. I’ve also just decided to screw my stupid “no new books” rule and go on a Bookdepository binge on the weekend, seeing that half the books mentioned in the comments are on my List. It’s a sign.

        1. swordsnspindles +2

          I knoooow, it’s evil/awesome. So many books I could buy! Somebody stop me.

          1. keristars +1

            I figure it’s a sign that this weekend is the time to do it – they’re making it less painful for your wallet! But I have a similar rule. The only new books allowed are ARCs I got for free or strategic purchases to support an author or genre/imprint AND they must either be rereadable or something at least one friend also wants to read. I figure that way they shouldn’t pile up too badly…

    20. Nashirakins +6

      I feel like I need a life because all I’m reading right now are technical manuals for IT certifications.

    21. hlmorris85 +5

      Still kind of struggling through Swordspoint and I don’t really know why. I feel like I should love it but it’s just not connecting.

      Just finished the last Society of Gentleman book by KJ Charles and now I’m bummed because I’ve read every single thing she’s published and I want more right now. Grr.

      And on the nonfiction end, I just started Queen’s Consort, about England’s Medieval queens.

      1. cs_key +1

        While I did enjoy Swordspoint, I also felt like it was missing something, so I feel you. To my surprise I ended up preferring the sequel, Privilege of the Sword, and have listened to the audio book of that several times. Never reading the third book in the series because a friend whose reading tastes I trust told me not to.

        KJ Charles though. Oh my god. Forever hoping that she’ll write a sequel to Think of England eventually, I am so in love with that book.

    22. thebeagee +4

      I just finished The Anatomist by Bill Hayes (mostly read this because of Oliver Sack’s On the Move) and now I’m reading Neurotribes because it’s finally FINALLY my turn in the library queue for that book (my library system has several copies and it’s always in demand).

    23. VaguelyDownward +4

      I just finished Hanya Yanagihara’s A Little Life, which was almost unbearably sad but which I enjoyed immensely. It has its flaws, but the writing is just beautiful.

    24. illyria83 +4

      The Three Musketeers for book club. I’m not very far in, but it’s pretty delightful so far. (This is kind of a follow-up from our reading The Black Count earlier.) Long list of books to read after but I have to stick with it as I have less than two weeks.

    25. 30Litresof +4

      Just finished The Sexual Politics of Meat, finally convinced me to begin transitioning (slowly) to veganism – I’m currently vegetarian, have been feeling increasingly bad about dairy, that was the final straw really. One of those books I’m going to be recommending to e-v-e-r-y-o-n-e for a while at least.

      Also, I organised my bookshelves at the weekend and it was most satisfying.

    26. Nerterology +5

      A coworker recommended the Southern Reach trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer, so I started listening to the audiobooks on my commute. I finished book 1, Annihilation, yesterday, and started Authority this morning.

      I’m… conflicted? There are some things VanderMeer does well, but I got a subtle air throughout book 1 that he was terribly impressed with himself and his own ideas, and early on there were some pretty basic biology errors that threw me off (MOSS IS EUKARYOTIC, JEFF). The first half of the book very clearly signposted what the big reveal was going to be, so I expected … to have that subverted or expanded on in some way? And then it was just played straight. And yet, clearly the hook’s been set, cause here I am starting book 2 in hopes of some actual new information…

      1. themegnapkin +1

        I really didn’t like the audio narrator for book 1. I think I would have liked the book a lot more if I had read instead of listened to it.

      2. kilks401 +3

        the reason I haven’t read books 2 or 3 is because I’m pretty sure there aren’t more answers given. I liked the atmospheric nature of it, but it wasn’t enough.

        1. Nerterology +1

          Yeah, sadly I suspect you may be right. Book 1 had such a nice, slowly building sense of foreboding throughout – I’m wondering at this point if it’s even possible the rest of the trilogy can cash the checks that atmosphere is writing. The climax of book 1 certainly wasn’t encouraging on that front. “This whole book we’ve been skirting around the idea that there’s a scary thing that was once human downstairs! I went downstairs and there was a thing that was once human, and it was indeed scary! So that’s sorted.” I hope VanderMeer was just holding back for some later weirdness, but I am not confident of that.

          But eh, I spend 2 hours on a train every day. I’m going to keep listening. If I end up pleasantly surprised, cool. If there really aren’t any satisfactory answers, I’m sure I’ll come back and rant about it on the internet.

      3. Notreallydorine +2

        I read the first and then didn’t bother moving on the second book, and that is very rare for me. So many people whose opinions on books I usually trust really love that series, but I kept waiting for the greatness to happen and it. . . didn’t. It was a story. It got over. And then I decided I was done.

    27. Ivans_Sister +3

      I’ve just started (as in I’ve read the introduction only) to Neil Gaiman’s Trigger Warning.

      1. YourEyesTheSea +1

        That’s a mixed bag, but there are a few high-quality stories in there. Let us know how you get on with it?

    28. samburgers +9

      The Raven Cycle by Maggie Stiefvater! I’m on the second of four books and it is DELIGHTFUL. Really indulgent YA fantasy with A+ teens.

      1. fallofasparrow +6

        I HAVE SO MANY FEELINGS ABOUT THE RAVEN CYCLE IF YOU NEED TO TALK ABOUT IT AT ALL just a note. The second books is probably (definitely) my favorite, though all four are phenomenal in their ways.

      2. rangiferina +6

        “Really indulgent YA fantasy with A+ teens” …that’s the most perfect way to describe this series, thank you.

        (I am 1/3 of the way through the last book and trying to convince my friends to read it so I can flail with them)

    29. YourEyesTheSea +6

      Currently on the go, to varying degrees, are:

      Steven Pinker’s The Better Angels Of Our Nature: absolutely fascinating to see the way that cultural norms have changed across recorded history. I’m only part-way in, but it’s definitely one I’ll see through despite the intimidating size.

      Angela Carter’s complete short stories: lots of good stuff, but oddly enough there’s not very much which at all resembles The Bloody Chamber stories (which I love). They seem different enough to be by different authors.

      The Night Manager: bought from a station bookshop, reluctantly: not because I don’t like le Carré (I really really like his books), but because I hate being pushed into reading something because it’s the current big thing or has a current big adaptation. Then again, I wouldn’t have even started on him as an author until my wife insisted I take her out to see the film of Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy, so maybe I shouldn’t be so reluctant really. Oh, and I am enjoying The Night Manager of course.

      Occasional dipping into bits of Hyperbole And A Half – no justification necessary :)-

      SPQR by Mary Beard: lots of fascinating detail about why the way the roman occupation / colonialisation policy in the republican era was so different from their contemporaries and why it enabled such massive military advantage by allowing social mobility and improvement for their non-roman subjects.

      And just finished: Poul Anderson’s The War Of The Gods and The Broken Sword: really well-told norse mythology fantasy.

    30. freshwaterpearl +8

      I just read Too Like the Lightning by Ada Palmer and it’s the weirdest most thought-provoking piece of science fiction I can recall reading. A combination of a shiny flying-cars sci fi future and complicated homages to Enlightenment philosophy. Halfway through I thought “this book needs a content warning” and then I remembered there had been one on the title page, I just thought it was part of the gimmick and didn’t take it seriously at the time.

    31. Scared_Vagina +2

      I got given War and Peace for my birthday earlier this month because I loved the shit out of the recent BBC adaptation but it is just sitting next to my bed and then watching tv instead because I am terrible and my wrists hurt just looking at it.

    32. walteredwardgo +1

      I just re-read The Posterchildren short ‘Target Practice’ because I wanted to feel sad about teenage superheros.

      Also debating a re-read of Kylie Chan’s White Tiger, since she just finished up that series

    33. theneedleandthe +6

      I just finished Wolf In White Van by John Darnielle and wowwww, what an amazing piece of literature. His writing style is immersive and emotional and just gut wrenching, idk.

      1. sausagedog +4

        I thought Wolf in White Van was great, too. I was a little worried it would read like a novel-length MG song (which I still would have loved in all likelihood!) but he translated to novel-writing so skillfully without losing his distinctive voice. And it was so imaginative– books sometimes feel same-y, but the plot was so completely unique and I loved it.

    34. Virginia +3

      I just finished Elizabeth Goudge’s The Rosemary Tree – which I *think* was recommended here? – and it’s … sort of The Secret Garden, but for Growns and with less racism.

      I loved it utterly. I keep having to stop, put it down, and remind myself that It Is Okay to Feel, Feeling is What Humans Do. It’s so full of kindness.

    35. keristars +2

      I just finished rereading Book of a Thousand Days because I wanted to see how bad it was, after absolutely adoring it back when it was super new before I knew much of anything about Orientalism or gender essentialism or any of the issues I’ve had with the author’s other books (and I resisted rereading it because I wanted to remember it fondly) and. Hm.

      It’s really engaging and well-written, but it does have major problems with Orientalism, and the main character is so…naive? I think? all the way through, even though she’s 21 by the end of the book! and part of it is the intense dedication Hale gave to keeping the narrative “in character” for the East Asian fantasyland which involves a very strict caste system where the higher casts are more godly, and the narrator until almost the end continues to put herself in that subservient/submissive role as lesser because she’s from a poor nomadic clan, one of (if not the) lowest castes. The richness of that narrative and the dedication to maintaining it is great, and I can see someone in real life having difficulty shucking that caste mentality especially with the situation here, but it just doesn’t work for fiction, somehow. Plus, the conceit for the writing of a diary for three years really stretched my suspension of disbelief at several points.

      I don’t even know how I feel about the representation of mental illness or trauma/PTSD at this point, or the way the two young women interacted. I do know that the stereotypes flew heavy, and many of the things I praised the book for 8 years ago I now know are negative stereotypes. And I actually wasn’t really upset by the way the romance developed here, and the gender stuff wasn’t quite so cringey as in her other books. (But I think I need to think on it further, and have prompts to help me analyze.)

      1. themegnapkin +2

        I enjoyed Book of a Thousand Days, but I agree with you about its problems. I didn’t read it with a critical eye last time, so maybe I’ll do a re-read.
        Around the same time that I read BOATD, I read The Ghost Bride, by Yangsze Choo, which isn’t really similar but is set in Asia (a Chinese community in Malaysia) and I think does a good job of avoiding Orientalism.

        1. keristars +1

          I’ve had The Ghost Bride recommended to me, directly or indirectly, a few times recently, so maybe I’ll pick it up!

          I read BOATD in just a couple days because I was enjoying it, but always in the back of my head was this cringing about the Orientalism and worrying about some of the bad stuff in Hale’s other books. It’s tough when a book is excellent, as long as you overlook the racism or poor representation of mental illness. :/

    36. craneyourneck +1

      Finally reading “The Door” by Magda Szabó, holy cow!

      And C.E. Morgan’s “The Sport of Kings.”

      And you?

    37. roisindubh211 +7

      Just about a third of the way through Austen’s Lady Susan and really enjoying it; it’s really different from her other books as its epistolary and give a voice to the antagonist (Lady Susan herself) who basically is gaslighting everyone around her to get what she wants, and then explaining it to a friend of hers so I’m constantly getting suckered in and then realise nope, she really is being that awful on purpose. I like it.

      Also just finished the Dagger and the Cross by Judith Tarr; really good and trying to show both sides of the Crusades (but with magic and people who are essentially elves in it).

      1. Hannah Richards

        Are you reading it [Lady Susan] b/c of the movie adaptation coming out this year?? (Love & Friendship) I was gonna read it for that reason, as well! I hope I shall like them, but I am aware that it is Very (TM) different from her other novels.

    38. alula_auburn +2

      I just read a book because it was about rare books and literary forgery but the narrator was insufferable masculine in his self-importance.

      I finally read In a Dark, Dark Wood but was underwhelmed–but I’ve been pretty much underwhelmed by every “next Gone Girl” book–and I liked Gone Girl, but I didn’t find it mind-blowing. (Too much Patricia Highsmith in my late teens?)

      I also just read A Head Full of Ghosts by Paul Tremblay and need to talk about it with someone, because it’s impossible to talk about online without spoilers. I have so many feelings! (Also, does anyone else get irrationally annoyed at Goodreads reviews that complain about basic details, but they are wrong about the details? A bunch of reviews said the story takes place in 2000 and 2015, but it very evidently does not! It is year unspecified, but the back part of the story clearly takes place after the 2008 recession, at the very earliest.)

      And yay two books I’ve been waiting for forever are out in paperback soon!

      1. themegnapkin +1

        Is A Head Full of Ghosts worth reading? I started it a while ago but didn’t get into it.

        1. alula_auburn +1

          I liked it a lot, but it also hit a bunch of my particular buttons? (Precocious, neglected child narrator trying to make sense of things, devoted but disturbing (but not in an incestuous way!) sibling dynamics, the really detailed show-within-the-book descriptions and meta, the general uncertainty about what is going on for pretty much the whole book. . .) I’m also not really a horror reader, fwiw. I don’t think the style/voice changes too much, so if you read far enough to get Marjorie telling Merry a creepy story, at least one Last Final Girl blog chapter, and a section of adult Merry and it wasn’t grabbing you, it might just not be your thing.

    39. rolotomassi5 +3

      There but for the by Ali Smith. It’s really well written and I’m struggling to understand how she makes such a weird concept for a novel (a guy locks himself in a couple’s guest room during a dinner party and refuses to come out or talk to anyone) so compulsively readable.

    40. notebook-keeper +5

      I’m rereading Mansfield Park — I’m liking both the book and Fanny more this time around but I’m HATING Edmund. Fanny deserves better!

      I’m also reading Judy Blume’s In The Unlikely Event. I’m not very far yet (maybe 1/4-1/3 through) but I’m not liking it as much as I’d hoped – there are so many characters that they’re hard to keep track of and hard to really care about.

    41. Hannah Richards

      I’m just about to start reading the second in The League of Beastly Dreadfuls series, The Dastardly Deed, by Holly Grant! It’s quite a fun YA/older child series. I like it, and I’m sure I’ll like the second novel.

      Speaking of fun little YA series, who else is impatiently awaiting the next novel in The League of Seven series, The Monster War, by Alan Gratz?! I love how detailed his alt history setting is, and how he uses it to talk in an accessible way about race, racism, systems of oppression, the way that actions in the past can affect whole races/ethnicities/tribes in the present, and even genocide. The books are SO fun, and SO intelligent and educational (they even have reading discussion questions at the end, tailored by grade level!), and just! aghhhhhhh!
      You HAVE to tell me some of you guys are with me on this! I mean, they’re even illustrated by Brett Helquist!

  29. Es_Petal +71

    Cat thread!

    Princess Captain and the pea, reclining on a pile of my saddlecloths

    Princess Captain and the pea

    And Saffron’s favourite sunny spot.

    <a href=”https://www.flickr.com/photos/lebatihem/26610780344/in/photostream/” title=”Spot the cat”>Spot the cat

    1. fiddlergirl +38

      Wash and Fiona were buddies:

      Then they had a fight:

      (he was frozen in this position for quite a while after she had already checked out and started watching the birds)

      Then they made up:

      1. Es_Petal +8

        Mine do that freezing in horror thing long after the other one has wandered off, as well.

        1. fiddlergirl +8

          they actually spend a lot of their time like that! I love these cats and we are so lucky that they decided to be friends (we adopted them a few years apart). my husband keeps talking about possibly getting a third cat but I do NOT want to risk upsetting the dynamic.

    3. Unreadaethel +14

      I’m visiting my parents, and my mom’s cats are floofier than Sansa (I think)! I’m going to make my brother take a picture on his phone when he and my SIL are over on Thursday for my birthday, because I have an ancient flip phone and can’t post pictures from it. But Friday’s OT, there will be pictures of fluffy forest cats.

      One of the cats is an asshole, though, and keeps meowing angrily at me for existing in his house.

      1. foxinthe_snow +13

        I wish I could meow angrily at people for existing in my house! (Not you, of course, but certain Men who shall go unnamed)

        1. Unreadaethel +6

          I mean, he also tries to attack me sometimes. He’s a gorgeous cat, but seriously a dick.

    4. jwhittz +28

      Saffron will sometimes just sit at your feet and stare until you pick her up and put her on the couch beside you, even though she is fully capable of jumping up there herself. She even did it to my dad while he was visiting this weekend.

      Also I love when she does upside-down face while sleeping:

      1. walrathem +7

        My cat does the Demanding Face too! But she does it for things like “make my brother less weird” and “make the sunshine go where I want it.”

          1. walrathem +5

            I guess from their point of view we control the light the rest of the time, why not that light right then?

  30. Bloodlost +3

    Any advice on early menopause / premature ovarian insufficiency? With a side of queer gender in my case.

    1. bread_and_roses +4

      No advice but lots of empathy. I take it you’re trying to get pregnant?

      1. Bloodlost +1

        No, actually never planned to bear a child, and I can only imagine the grief for folks who get this diagnosis in that context. I just stopped bleeding, and would be reasonably ok with the diagnosis itself actually, but am overwhelmed by decisions about treatment. Like, I never wanted to take hormones, especially not estrogen, but I am worried about bone loss.

        1. tinypaperme +2

          Is it worth talking to your doctor about the bone loss independent of ovarian issues? I’d assume there are other ways of preventing/averting that without estrogen (right? I am not that kind of doctor).

  31. PierrePoutine +14

    Given that Nicole is in Canada this week, this feels like the appropriate place to share that I have decided Justin Trudeau is a real-life Brandon Walsh and I don’t mean that as a compliment.

      1. PierrePoutine +13

        He has that self-satisfied ‘I’m a good good guy’ vibe that I find grating although obviously I still prefer Prime Minister Brandon to Prime Minister Evil Stephen. Also, Jason Priestly would be perfect to play Trudeau in a TV movie…
        ETA: I also think that if consulted for his opinion on the matter, Justin would be adamant that Donna Martin be allowed to graduate.

        1. walrathem +4

          I’m still mad about that. She got trashed at Prom and shouldn’t have crossed the stage! She still graduated. Why should the punishment get withheld for her just because she’s popular?

          1. PierrePoutine +3

            I would like to think that the whole incident inspired them to relax the rules a little. I mean, half of my graduating class wouldn’t have crossed the stage if getting trashed at prom was a legit disqualifier…

  32. beyoncepadthai1 +4

    Anyone have recommendations for stuff to do in Düsseldorf? I’m going for a weekend in July.

    1. tragicallyludicrous +1

      There’s good Japanese food there! And the long stretch of bars is touristy but hilarious.

    2. coloredlights +1

      Düsseldorf is great! It’s been about 10 years since I was there, but definitely go walk around Medienhafen and look at the cool buildings (the harbor was mostly destroyed during WWII and the city got a ton of different architects to rebuild it).

      I don’t remember a lot of other touristy things to do there, but it’s a nice small city for walking around and exploring.

  33. cs_key +18

    Dear Toasties,

    I’m going to the US for the first time this fall! I am super excited. Will I survive two and a half weeks without the variety of baked goods I am accustomed to here in Germany? One can only hope. ;D

    Specifically I’m heading to Seattle and Dallas. I’ll be staying with friends who can show me around, but if there’s any must-see things or little-known places you can recommend, I’d be happy to hear about them. Also, what kind of quintessential American food (& especially candy) should I try?

    1. Ivennelluin +6

      In Denton, Texas (about an hour North of Dallas), there’s a fabulous used bookstore (Recycled Books) on the town square in a building that used be an opera house, which is now painted lavender. It’s a literal labyrinth of books. (If that’s your jam.)
      The Denton square is also your quintessential Southern town square. There’s an old fashioned ice cream shop, a big brick courthouse, etc. So a good taste of small town America.

      1. cs_key +2

        That used bookstore sounds like a dream! I’m not sure if I’ll make it out of Dallas itself, but it’s definitely going on my list. Thank you!

    2. viviennestreet +19

      People who didn’t grow up in the US always seem shocked and mystified by root beer. You should try it and report back!

      1. sausagedog +7

        Yeah, I like to bring root beer candies with me when I travel overseas as gifts, because it is seen as very exotic. I would also say you should try Dr. Pepper while you’re in Texas; I have some Texan friends who swear up and down that it tastes best there because it’s “fresh.”

        1. viviennestreet +18

          Lol. And if you want to convince your overseas friends that the US is a nation of trolls, feed them candycorn. I was talking to an Australian once who was like, I tried candycorn once, it was from an import store, it was cloyingly sweet and kind of grainy, I think it was a knockoff and all the USians were like, no, that sounds accurate.

        2. rawrbook +1

          There was a Texas brand of Dr. Pepper called Dublin Dr. Pepper and they made their soda with cane sugar when other companies switched to corn syrup (that’s probably what your Texan friends loved). They lost a trademark lawsuit and had to shut down a few years ago, a state tragedy.

      2. cs_key +5

        I just looked it up and it certainly looks…interesting. Also wikipedia mentioned something called root beer float? With ice cream? I am cautiously intrigued and will report back.

    4. wakatopatopa +13

      KOLACHES

      Okay so they’re not really American but north Texas is peak kolache country.

      1. schuylersister +9

        If you can rent a car in Dallas (which you should because otherwise there’s no way around), go south on I-35 to West (that’s the name of a town), and eat all the kolaches. They are a Czech-Texan pastry delicacy that can be savory or sweet, and West is the main center of the Czech population in Texas.

        Also, eat a lot of Tex-Mex, as well as a lot of actual Mexican food –tacos, fajitas, chile rellenos…

        Drink Dr. Pepper and Big Red with cane sugar and margaritas. Eat a fast food hamburger or a breakfast biscuit sandwich at a Whataburger.

        Eat breakfast tacos with potato, egg, and bacon or egg, potato and chorizo.

        1. rosemarybush +3

          Yes, these are all the correct things to do in Texas. Cannot emphasize the Tex-Mex and Dr. Pepper enough. Eating Fritos while drinking a Dr. Pepper elevates the experience that much more.

        2. cs_key +1

          Super curious about Mexican food, since a friend told me that the stuff we get here is pretty far from authentic. So that’s something I’ll definitely check out. And I’m always here for pastry of any kind, obviously. Thanks for the recommendations!

    5. thebeagee +6

      In Seattle, everyone’s gonna tell you about the market and things like that and they’re all great, yes. HOWEVER, my absolute fav place to go when I visited my brother in Seattle was a place called “Citizen Coffee” at the bottom of Queen Anne Hill. They have really, really excellent meals (in addition to great coffee) and I definitely recommend checking it out if you’re on that side of town. Also, if you’re a total coffee person, then Uptown Espresso is my fav local-to-Seattle chain.

      And if we’re talking quintessential American things: take a duckboat tour. I know, I know, it’s dorky. But it’s the kind of dorky that’s worth doing once.

      1. cs_key +1

        I am definitely not above dorky touristy things, so taking a duckboat tour is on!

    6. sfbeee +3

      eat at il corvo and the walrus&the carpenter in seattle! fully worth it, fully delightful.

    7. Poppy +2

      I enjoyed the tour of the underground historical tunnels in Seattle. Definitely go hiking or to the beach. I also recommend reading “Anybody Can Do Anything” by Betty Smith.

      1. cs_key +4

        I’ve already been promised as much Mac&Cheese as I want to try, different brands and everything, so this is definitely going on the list. Thank you!

    9. walrathem +2

      You should be there for some really great pie season so that’s something.

    10. rawrbook +5

      In Dallas, you definitely need to eat BBQ (if you eat meat) and wherever you end up, make sure you try brisket, it is the quintessential Texas BBQ (you couldn’t get it in other states until recently). Ribs and sausage are good too, but try brisket first. (Lockhart’s is good but a little pricey, your friends might have a favorite place).

      You also must try breakfast tacos at either Torchys (an Austin import) or Tacos y Mas (Dallas original. You can’t go wrong with breakfast tacos, but make sure they are breakfast tacos and not regular tacos!

      Also, I’d recommend trying to catch a Ranger’s baseball game in Arlington while you are there. You can get pretty cheap nosebleed (a high deck) tickets and enjoy sunny weather (wear a hat, bring sunscreen) and you can bring in your own peanuts. Baseball can get boring, but its the perfect excuse to socialize.

      I third the kolache recommendations (West is a great town to get them) and Denton has a nice town square. Depending on where you are in Dallas it’s only about an hour away.

      For candy, (in Texas still) try pralines pecan or any other pecan candy (its the State Tree). This will sound weird, but there’s this rest stop/gas station chain called Buc-ees and they have a great selection of candy and other snacks that are very particularly Texas.

      As for sweets, try pecan pie at the BBQ place you go to. It’s very sweet, but also very Texas. Peach cobbler is also something you want to try. At a Mexican restaurant you should try sopapillas.

      Gute Reise und viel Spaß!

    11. mkmorrow +5

      Seattle is stupid with good bakeries. My favorites are Bakery Noveau (West Seattle) and Cafe Besalu in Ballard.

      Seattle (and the Pacific Northwest in general) is a great area for microbreweries (we grow a lot of hops here, hence the prevalence of the IPA as the signature beer) and distilleries, so if you like to drink you can find many local delights.

    12. craneyourneck +1

      Please go to Delancey (1415 NW 70th St) in Seattle. The pizza is a bit of a wait, but you can always get a fancy cocktail in the adjourning restaurant. And if you haven’t read Orangette, check it out in advance (Molly Wizenberg and her partner opened the restaurant together).

      1. cs_key +1

        I haven’t heard of Orangette before, but I’ll make sure to check it out. Thank you!

  34. viviennestreet +16

    Hey Toasties, what sort of lighting do you prefer? Do you keep all the lights on, or only the bare minimum? Is sunlight a must? Do you never open your blinds? Do you have a preference for yellowy or whiteish light bulbs? I’m really curious. Let’s discuss.

    1. geekcrackteam +10

      I like lamps. Lots of lamps and fairy lights. I find the big ceiling lights to be too much, but I still like a quite bright room. Lots of people do not understand this.

      I never open my bedroom curtains, but that’s only because my room is on the ground floor at the front of the house and I don’t like strangers peering in.

    2. viviennestreet +5

      I’m a minimum light person. I almost never open the blinds. My bedroom is lit by one of those floor lamps with three swivel bulbs, but I only turn on the top one and I aim it at the ceiling/wall to diffuse it. Mostly I’ll turn on lights for exactly as long as I need them and then turn them off again. I have no idea why but I love my dim apartment.

    3. aravisthequeen +18

      I live for sunlight. I’m constantly opening the blinds and curtains for all natural light all the time. Unfortunately my bedroom gets full eastern exposure and we have a huge sliding glass door to the balcony so….I like it much less at 5am when the sun is coming up.

    4. fenixdawn +19

      I am solar powered. During the day, I want as much sunlight coming in as possible. I’m actually the exception in my family, as I think my sisters might all be vampires. At night, I love onyx lamps, which I started accumulating when I worked for a Fair Trade store. The ones I have are from Ten Thousand Villages and they give off a very beautiful warm glow. I like those Himalayan salt lamps for that purpose as well.

    5. ballisticjaguar +10

      I like a room to be as bright as possible! The best light is full sun though, so I will open any and all blinds to get it. If I am in a room and there is no sun I turn on every light that room has available.

    6. beaucoup1314 +8

      In the day I prefer as much natural light as possible. I open the blinds then. A sunny apartment really affects my moods. At night I usually do the minimum of lamplight – the overheads are a bit bright. I’m also one to turn of the light when I leave the room, except a small hall light to help with general navigation.

    7. lemonadefish +5

      I love sunlight, and keep most of the blinds open most of the time (though I will make concessions for tempering summer heat gain). The way our house is situated, it’s not especially easy to see my boobs from outside unless I’m very close to the windows, and also I do not care very much, though I try to keep them hidden when the church across the street is in session.
      I love lamps as objects, and cannot stop buying them, but I rarely think to actually, you know, turn them on.
      We are moving to LEDs in most of our light fixtures, in a daylight color (coolish).
      Also the ceiling light over my desk is very dim, and it’s the only place in the whole house I really need lots of light, and I am forever annoyed about this.

    9. Apfelmoose +2

      My main room serves as a living room/office/bedroom and receives no direct sunlight ever.

      I stockpile incandescent vanity mirror lightbulbs with gold tips and then ration their use because of the electricity bills. Were money and the environment no object, I would use them exclusively because they produce such a gorgeous light.

    10. FitzEmpress +4

      I like the blinds open! It gives me an incentive to keep my room picked up while also giving me a burst of “natural light, go look at the crape myrtles when you’re bored with studying.” I only turn the lights on if it’s nighttime (blinds closed by then), if it’s raining, or if I’m getting dressed.

    11. sausagedog +11

      I need sunlight in my living space; I will take sunlight over privacy any day to be honest. (I also leave my window cracked 24/7 for as many months of the years as I can without freezing to death in my sleep.) And once it’s dark out I need to flood the space with light. I think this is in reaction to years at college with dinky desk lamps and half-burned out ceiling fixtures providing all my light in the winter.

      1. viviennestreet +7

        Cracked window!  I couldn’t care less about sunlight, but I LOVE fresh air.  I can’t wait for the pollen count to go down so I can open my windows again.

        1. dorianneemmerton +4

          I keep dosing myself with antihistamine because I need the fresh air and sunlight in my home, and I have not had it for many a long month. This was a proper May 2-4, the first weekend of summer (weather) and my balcony door was wiiiide open the entire time I was home. I don’t think the neighbours across the way can see if I’m naked but I also don’t care.

    12. SemperLegens +2

      Generally, I like a lot of bright white light (incandescent 100W bulbs were my favorite, but really hard to find now). I like sun as long as it’s not on me, but I don’t like having windows open because people can see in. Mostly what I do is read, so I like a focused lamp right on my book.

      I like the look of lots of little lights, but it’s frustrating because it feels dim all the time. I’m trying to think of those pretty little lamps as decoration rather than as light sources, but it’s hard.

      I kickstarted a lamp that is supposed to mimic sunlight – I should get it in a few years (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/arioliving/ario-smart-lighting-better-health).

      1. Beakses +3

        You should be able to get an equivalent number of lumens- 100 watt incandescents produce about 1300-1600 lumens, so a CFL or LED with that lumen output should be equivalent. Then you just need the right color temperature – not sure what bright white means to you, but I’d start at about 5000K, which is similar to daylight on a cloudy day. A higher CRI (color rendering index) will help a CFL or LED feel more like an incandescent- I wouldn’t go below 80, and 90+ may feel better if you’re sensitive to color (incandescent is considered to have a CRI of 100).

    13. parlato1973 +6

      i feel like my partner could answer this in-depth, since he is the collector of lightbulbs! he likes to set everything up with multiple low-medium lit lamps and overhead lights on dimmers, so everything is lit but not overly so, and can be adjusted. and we have 2 lights each in the kitchen and bathroom, one is bright for working or makeup or whatever, and one is for lighting the room when you don’t want the bright light. we like soft yellow light, and have collected some nice diffuse led bulbs as well as some of the cute throwback tungsten bulbs with clear glass that show you all the parts.

      eta: oh yeah, and sunlight whenever the sun is up! we do sheers under curtains so we can filter as necessary, but we also have cats who need to watch birds, so they are often open.

    14. jackalopeia +6

      My houseplants are all about natural light, so my curtains are open during the day. Plus, I really resent having to turn lights on if the sun is out there illuminating everything FOR FREE. I like white/daylight bulbs for overhead lights, but warmer bulbs for lamps, so I can kind of gradually dim the lights over the course of an evening.

      My current problem is that our new apartment came with recessed LED lights overhead, which is cool and all, except they’re VERY bright and not frosted at all. They cast weird spotlighty shadows on the walls and have been devilishly situated in the bedroom to be as annoying as possible–one on each side of the bed so everyone can enjoy a big interrogation light shining in their eyes if they dare to lie down with the lights on, and one at the foot for maximum screen glare on the TV. I would love to replace them all with frosted bulbs in hopes that it would at least give a more diffuse light, but I feel like buying 16 new lightbulbs to replace 6-month-old LEDs is the ultimate in frivolity. On the other hand: LEDs. Are they ever going to burn out on their own?

      God, my life is so hard.

    15. Battle_Swine +4

      I want every possible light on and every blind open. Give me all the light! Ordinarily I shut the blinds at night (and then turn on every lamp in whatever room I’m in), but my house does not have any curtains or blinds downstairs at all; it weirded me out at first, but the way things are situated, no one could actually see in the windows unless they specifically came down the driveway to spy on us.

      Lamps and bright light became more important after I moved to New England and learned that winter days get dark at 4pm. It makes things more tolerable for me.

      1. jackalopeia +8

        Oh man, I could not cope with downstairs windows with no curtains. Yeah sure, maybe you don’t have to worry about PEOPLE spying on you, but what about ghosts? Or bigfoot?? You are a far braver person than I.

        1. Battle_Swine +5

          well now that I’m thinking about GHOSTS SPYING ON ME I am feeling a lot less brave

          1. jackalopeia +6

            I mean I GUESS technically a ghost could just walk through the wall and spy on you from the couch, but that just makes it creepier that they would choose to do it through the window

          2. Battle_Swine +7

            Also, the way my windows are, they’d be in the woods looking in, so SPYING WOOD GHOSTS is some maximum-level creepy I think

    16. Givemebackmehat +5

      Flourescent light is a migraine trigger for me so I try to avoid it whenever possible. I prefer sunlight or a series of lamps scattered throughout the house. I’m one of those people who almost never turns on the overhead light unless I’m sewing something tiny and dark colored or need to find an earring back/ other small thing.

    17. keristars +2

      I hate overhead lighting and prefer natural lighting as much as possible. If I have to have lamps on, I prefer warm, not cold, and softer bulbs. At night in my bedroom while reading or internetting, I often only have a bunch of star-shaped fairy lights I got from Target that are SUPER dim, but my eyes adjust to be able to read books just fine. It’s perfect. (They’re a warm glow, too.) My little table lamp has a tiny like 40W bulb? and it’s sort of purple tinted, which ends up being warm and not blue, somehow. it is also excellent.

      When I’m in my office at work (rather than the reception desk), I have two huge west-facing windows with white shades, and I almost always turn the overhead light off and just open the shade as much as I can without being blinded by the afternoon sun. It’s so great.

    18. Beakses +4

      Natural light as much as possible during the day. We live in a lovely old place with heaps of windows so the daylight is usually pretty good.

      At night, I’m all about table lamps. Because I’m a total lighting geek I got a Philips Hue system about a year after they came out, so all the bulbs in our main living space can be whatever color or color temperature I want and I can control them from my phone and things. So usually I’ll keep them cooler white for mornings and dark afternoons and warm and campfire colored at night. At first I thought they’d just be a fun toy, but we really use at least the color temp feature pretty much every day.

    19. ksek +2

      SO MUCH LIGHT, PLEASE. Natural when possible, whiteish bulbs when it’s not. I’ve got the south-facing windows in my studio set up with thin white roman blinds so that I can keep a ton of light pouring in while also preventing glare/weird shadows on my drawing table.

      I grew up in a house with brown carpets, brown walls, dark furniture, thick curtains, and a dad whose default setting is “dimmer lights on low.” It was awful and I have successfully escaped it. (Parents have since painted the walls the oddest shade of peachy orange and got new curtains, but they have not helped all that much.)

    20. znfchick +3

      I like soft lighting. Bright bright lights are terrible and overstimulating, especially when I’m tired. I used to live in a house with lots of gentle lighting from tall floor lamps, and I miss it so much because our current apartment has super-bright potlights. Sometimes when they make my head too busy I have to go and hide under the blankets in bed for a while.

  35. Period_eye +17

    Hey Toasties! Can I urge you to take a minute and call the Louisiana Governor’s Office? The legislature just passed a shitstain of a bill that would be a disaster for poor women’s health in this state – and although our Gov is a Dem, he is a Blue Dog and needs to be nudged.
    It’s super easy. Call (318) 300-4069, listen to a little PP script, they connect you to the Governor Edwards office, a very nice lady answers the phone. Tell her you want to register your opinion and urge the Governor to Veto House Bill 606. It is all very pleasant and not very confrontational at all.
    Though you can make it that way if you’d like.

  36. sausagedog +15

    It rained last night, so does anyone want to talk about plants?

    I am an apartment dweller and I just moved with my tiny container garden. I’ve got 4 lithops (my weird babies), some other succulent I can’t identify, and a spider plant that I propogated from one of the pips of my ex-roommate’s mama spider plant. The latter I am quite proud of– despite some neglect on my side, it seems to have survived the move ok and is showing new growth!

    What do you grow?

    1. fenixdawn +7

      We are in the early years of owning a house, so we have been putting in tons of green things. My favorite right now is probably a columbine I planted last year and is doing beautifully. We’ve also got an herb garden, where right now everything is trying to catch up with the mint which always thrives.

    2. cs_key +5

      I used to be the worst at keeping plants alive, but I started keeping some at the office and they’re still going strong! For the most part.

      I love my small dracaena because the stripes add something visually interesting. I also have some ivy that basically takes care of itself, and two orchids. One of them has flowers for something like the 5th time in one and a half years now, the other didn’t flower again after the very first time. But it’s still growing new leaves, so it should be fine? Probably?

      1. sausagedog +2

        My mom and my grandmother both grow orchids, and whenever I visit, my mom loves to tell me how easy they are. “Just a single ice cube every day!” But they are a bit large, so I won’t get one until I’m a little more settled (not anticipating a move in the next 12 months, say.)

        1. Notreallydorine +2

          Wait, really? I tried to grow an orchid exactly once and managed to kill it, and I am now terrified of them. A single ice cube a day?

        2. cs_key +1

          Ooh, I’ll have to keep the ice cube thing in mind, never heard of it before. Easy Orchid is actually pretty small, not even the length of my hand, but Difficult Orchid is much bigger. And it was dyed blue, so I’m kinda disappointed that it’s not flowering again, apparently it was supposed to retain at least a bit of colour for a while.

    3. irreverantontheinternet +11

      I have a pot of pansies I got for administrative assistants day, a Christmas Cactus, and the most amazing trooper cactus you ever did see. Fernardo was just a baby when he fell out of his mom’s pot. He came to college with me and was the microphone for many of my drunken solo karaoke sessions (that almost ended in tragedy so many times). I gave him to boyfriend when I moved to Korea, bf gave him to his parents when he moved to Oregon, his parents moved from one part of NY to another and accidentally locked Fernando in their storage locker FOR A YEAR but he lived and now he is growing very tall and wiry!

      We can’t have anything at cat-level though which means none of our plants get as much direct sun as they should. Toddler Cat LOVES to put her mouth on Fernando which I don’t understand and everyone loves to pull the flowers of the pansy and the CC and spit them on the floor. I want to start a window box herb garden but we keep saying we’re going to moving soon so I don’t want to invest the time but it has been two years…

    4. SmrtCookie +4

      This is my first spring in my house so I finally what the flowers I inherited look like. My irises just opened up yesterday, the peonies should be any day now. My veggie garden is also sprouting like whoa! Very exciting stuff, I’m loving puttering around for a little bit each evening.

      1. walrathem +3

        Waiting for peonies is always exciting! There’s no way to tell from the leaves!

    5. alliana07 +4

      I HAD a spider plant baby but one of my cats decided randomly to eat it, and then threw it up (it’s not toxic but they don’t like them so idk why whichever cat it was ate it ugh). I was thinking about growing herbs in my window again this year, anyway, but now I’m not so sure.

    6. zzblock +5

      I am newly obsessed with gardening and have been buying all the plants! My studio is quite small and has only one south-facing window, so the light is indirect but there all day long.

      At the moment I have three pothos plants (happy and thriving), a purple heart (unsure how it’s doing since it is new), an aloe plant, a snake plant that is THRILLED at how humid my bathroom is, a lipstick plant whose care I can’t quite crack, two palms, and a zz plant.

        1. zzblock +1

          I think I’m having location issues. I’ve tried three different spots in the apartment to try to find the best amount of light for the little guy. But the leaves on one of the stems are curling at the edges, so it’s definitely not happy yet.

          It may also be in too small a pot, which I can rectify next time I make it to Ikea or Home Depot.

          1. eegghh +1

            I know mine is in a shitty pot and shitty soil, which I’ll be fixing soon and it has some rough wrinkly days depending on our house humidity. I’ve found mine to be generally happiest right to the side of a window- indirect but bright light. And they love being neglected, I’ve nearly killed this poor dude twice and he’s rewarded me with 3 rounds of flowers since I got him in…november?

          2. zzblock +1

            Ah! I bet I am overfussing a bit too. I’m an anxious plant mom!

            Three rounds of flowers!! Amazing. I love the look of the lipstick plant with flowers, it is really encouraging to hear yours has successfully bloomed at home!

          3. eegghh +1

            Is it curling up? They also have some limited climbing ability, so if it’s kind of curling up and out that might be a good sign?

    7. eegghh +5

      Oh man so I’m so ready to talk plants.

      In my house right now- lipstick plant, silver spotted pothos, christmas cactus from the boyfriend’s mom at christmas, a wee little container of somewhat neglected succulents, a tiny mother in law tongue, and my pride and joy a cissus tuberosa that has moved here from cross country and only JUST has started growing a new sprout. I suspect he needs fertilizer.

      Oh also we have a 3 slot aerogarden which currently has a basil, a mint and an empty space in the middle that I’m using to sprout cuttings from the pothos in.

      On my goals list- I have a lot of space in my cubicle, I’m planning to trick it out with some low-light and hardy plants, because in my old cube I used to have a terrarium that I’d just pour any water leftover in my glass into at the end of the day.
      In our apartment, I want to put in these angled corner bars and hang all our plants across either side. Might be tricky because the walls seem to be made of cottage cheese. I want to add at least a spider plant and my ultimate plant goal of a staghorn fern, which might go up in the studio. Our house is kind of terrible for plants in the light situation.

      1. walrathem +1

        Terrible light could work for a bunch of orchids. Not necessarily phalaenopsis (the kind most often sold in grocery stores now), but a bunch of the other ones need a little less light. Orchids aren’t hard exactly, they’re astoundingly easy- but only when they’re in a spot they like.

    8. jackalopeia +4

      I have a ton of succulents because my old apartment was tiny with giant west-facing windows, so the only options for plants were small things that REALLY LIKED hot sun or small things that liked total darkness. My new place is south-facing with more space for things like, oh, side tables that exist purely to hold a bunch of easter cactuses and bromeliads, and I’m really enjoying branching out!

      My proudest plant baby at the moment is a black-and-purple calathea. I got it five months ago, planning to slowly torture it to death in my low-humidity apartment with my succulent-friendly watering habits, but it’s unfurling some new leaves for me! We had a rough patch (a minor pest problem necessitated some serious grooming) but I’m so happy that it’s soldiering on. My trick has been keeping it next to a peace lily that falls into a droopy swoon the moment its soil gets too dry, which helps me remember to water it. I feel like I should get them another, smaller friend, though–does anyone have any favorite indirect-sunlight-loving compact houseplants to recommend?

      1. jackalopeia +3

        Can we also talk about the plants we’ve killed? My body count: two kalanchoes (they’re just never fucking happy with me), one dracaena (scale), a peperomia (low light), an easter cactus (couldn’t stand winter in the old apartment), and an aloe (which probably would have carried on being feeble and ugly indefinitely, but I put it out of its misery). No such thing as an unkillable houseplant!

        1. BestLaidPlans +3

          I’m slowly killing a kalanchoe in my office right now! It is coming back a bit now that it is spring but looks ridiculous, with two huge leaves and three little sprouts with baby leaves all over.

          1. jackalopeia +1

            What’s their deal? They’re always on “easy houseplant” lists. Of course, I gave one to my mother-in-law last spring, and it has since gotten HUGE and bloomed multiple times for her, despite all of her other succulents being pale, spindly creatures stretching wanly for the sun. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

        2. alula_auburn +1

          I killed my aloe plant too. 🙁 Hoping to start fresh soon, but not until I am not longer under the terrifying eye of my professional organizer.

    9. cinnamonfern +2

      I love lithops! weird little pebble/butt plants.
      I can’t have pets in my apartment so I’m leaning in with the houseplants. I have big southwest facing windows also, so the light is great.
      In the impossible to kill category : snake plants, a couple zebra cactuses (cactii?), a pothos, a jade plant.
      In the might die if forgotten for too long category : a bunch of ferns, a peace lily, an asparagus fern, a croton, a dracena, a begonia, an unidentified climbing plant.
      I also have a moth orchid that my mom gave me but only her magic touch can induce it to flower (it was in flower when she gave it to me, then bloomed again when I left it with her to go on vacation… how?!)
      I’ll also start the herb garden on the balcony soon!
      Yay plants!

    10. Unreadaethel +4

      I have a distressing number of plants, especially given that the front of my house is shaded by a massive oak tree during the summer, so I have to rotate all of my houseplants several times a year. My most successful houseplant is probably the violet squill (ledebouria socialis), which creates a tangled root mat on top of the dirt, can handle a wide range of moisture levels, and is tolerant to full sun or partial shade. I also have a night-blooming cereus that’s putting tendrils out all over the place, and really needs to go out onto the front porch when I get home. I inherited a lot of plants from a coworker when she moved, and she goes for interesting over pretty.

    11. foxinthe_snow +3

      Any recs for a very inexperienced new gardener? My boyfriend is about to move into a flat with a ‘winter garden’ (an enclosed balcony with sliding glass panels) and has expressed a sudden interest in growing all sorts of things. I was thinking of getting him one of these for his birthday in a few weeks, but would welcome any other recommendations! He has also been considering air plants for inside the living room, so if anyone has any experience with those please share!

      1. sausagedog +2

        I love succulents– the more you forget about them, the better you grow. And I’ve had decent luck mail ordering them! The one drawback is that the easier ones (like lithops) tend to be quite small, so they don’t effectively fill a space.

        Bromeliads, orchids and spider plants are all pretty low-maintenance, too!

      2. jackalopeia +3

        Air plants are so easy! I would avoid mounting them to anything with glue, because watering them by full submersion really beats misting them, I think. Dunking them once a week and giving them good sun and airflow should make them huge and happy. They’re basically pest-free thanks to regular soakings, so they’re especially good for beginner gardeners who are wary of having creepy houseplant bugs in their homes.

    12. Poppy +1

      Suggestions for invincible edible plants for the terrace (100% containers)? So far I’ve done well with woody herbs, cherry tomatoes, sweet peppers. I’ve actually grown a lot of vegetables too but they tend to turn out in miniature–cute but not cost effective.

      1. sausagedog +4

        Chives? They grew like a weed in my childhood yard, with zero maintenance, so I feel like they’d do alright under most conditions.

        1. citystillbreath +3

          Seconding this! But depending on your terrace’s location, you might have to fertilize the flowers yourself (take a qtip and take pollen from the male flower and put it on the female flower, yup!). Make sure to do it thoroughly bc otherwise you won’t get any fruit.

      3. sarawr +2

        Sweet peas and bush beans do really well in containers as long as you add a couple of stakes.

    13. themegnapkin +1

      How are you keeping your lithops alive? Not even my mother (who is terrific with succulents) could manage it.

      1. sausagedog +1

        Basically through neglect! They don’t need any water at all during their growing season (spring in my apartment), since they suck the water out of their outer leaves. And then they’re dormant during the winter, so they don’t need water. So I just dribble a bit on them in summer and fall if it looks like they’re getting dusty. One set even reproduced!

    14. cleoreads +1

      We have an amazing sunroom (facing south with windows on 3 sides) and our plants love it.

      Traditional houseplants (mine):
      ZZ plant – it’s bigger than most I’ve seen and I’m not sure why
      Rubber plant
      Spider plant
      Aloe
      Unidentifed cute little succulents
      25 year old ginormous Christmas cactus (from a cutting from my mother’s plant).
      (These are all doing really well because I only bother with plants I can easily keep alive, plus they love my sunroom as much as I do).

      Unusual plants (Mr Cleo’s):
      Banana plant (doing really well)
      Venus fly trap (not doing so well but great conversation starter)
      Coffee tree – it keeps loosing leaves but it bloomed and now we have a tiny harvest of coffee beans
      Tamarind tree – grown from a seed
      Tiny citrus tree – grown from a seed

    15. sarawr +3

      Aaahhhh, gardening talk is the best talk.

      I don’t have an actual yard, so I bought giant grow bags from Amazon and planted a small but (I hope) productive garden in them. Plant-wise, I have four tomato types (five plants), two tomatillos, pineapple sage, a Sandia pepper, sweet peas, and two eggplants. Seedling-wise, I have two or three more tomatoes, some Thai basil, possibly a Hungarian black pepper, possibly a white bell pepper, possibly a mixed fingerling eggplant, and a couple of other things I don’t remember.

      I bought the plants that are already established. The seedlings are a mess because when I started them indoors (with gentle tending and careful labels) they all died, so I panicked and just tossed more seeds directly into the garden without heed to what was where. I kind of thought they wouldn’t sprout but, well, they did, and now I have Mysteries.

      Now that I have written an entire novel about my pathetic little garden, I would also like to show off photos because I love garden photos and nobody ever gets to see mine. So I keep them here, and I take new ones weekly-ish or whenever something exciting happens! http://s260.photobucket.com/user/sarawr0326/libra…

    16. walrathem +2

      Yesterday I had a day off to use before the new financial year so my mom and I hit our favorite nurseries! I bought a swath of dianthus and a couple of encore azaleas which I had been avoiding until my nurseryman vouched for them (“amethyst” and “twist”) I stinkin’ love plants.

    17. craneyourneck +2

      Hope your plants are growing well. Spider plants are tough–you must be a good gardener!

      I went overboard with the herbs this year and am growing 218 seeds (about twelve kinds of herbs). The chives and the thyme are thriving this week!

      It is strange to coo over something so small and still think about eating it.

  37. geekcrackteam +12

    There’s so much waiting going on in my life right now and I hate it. I’m waiting to hear back from a job I really want, I’m waiting for a new housemate to appear from somewhere, I’m waiting for pay day tomorrow. I’m waiting to leave my job and get another better one, with lots of money, so that I can do things I want to do (buy a motorbike, go to Africa) and in the mean time I’m just spending lots of time researching and thinking about the things I want to do when all this stuff happens and its driving me a bit crazy.

    I hate feeling stuck. I’ve also been off my ADHD meds for about a month now, so there’s that. (I didn’t go off them deliberately, I just ran out the day before I went on holiday and it takes a lot of self managed organisation to get treatment in the UK, which is not really my strongest trait, especially when un-medicated.). I’m not really sure if there’s a difference in me, sometimes I think there is, but then I’m still getting on with life and doing all the things I’m supposed to be doing. I haven’t been off my meds in about 8 years, and I’ve done a lot of growing and changing since then, so I really don’t know what’s me and whats medication.

    I did realize over the weekend that I’ve had two very serious flights of fancy in the last few weeks and have devoted nearly all my brain power to them (bike, Africa.) and researching instead of doing work and I’m pretty sure that’s not normal, but I’m not sure if its not normal for me? I always have day dreams and fantasies, and usually give them a bit of time, but I’m not sure if I usually give it this much? (I’m buying a used motorbike jacket on ebay like right now. Not kidding.).

    Anyway, getting back on meds is just another thing on my big long list of this to do.

    1. CleverManka +8

      That sounds tiring and stressful. Being driven crazy is never a good time.

      The Burgomaster has pretty severe ADD and reading your comment sounds a lot like his pattern of thinking when he forgets to take two doses in a row (or is having a reset day). I (intellectually, if not experientially) understand how frustrating it is when you feel stuck because your ideas are coming way faster than you can manage them. If it helps, I believe (from over a decade observing the Burgomaster on and off his meds) that the best parts of you on medication are you. The meds don’t give you those aspects, they just give those aspects of you the chance to shine.

      All the hugs, bb. I hope you feel unstuck soon!

      1. geekcrackteam +5

        I have a fear that my ability to just get on and do shit comes entirely from my medication and if I loose that my whole life will literally fall apart and all the things I’ve done and the life I’ve built will go away and I’ll be a lazy 16 year old who can’t get out of bed and do anything.

        Thankfully I don’t struggle with too many ideas; I’m just impatient AF, if I have an idea I want to do it right away, and if I can’t do it then I’ll just keep coming up with new ideas until I can do something. But I also get hyper-focus really badly, so if there’s something I’m interested in, I don’t want to hear about or think about anything else, I am do this now and this is what I’m doing and until I’ve done it nothing else matters. And when I tell people about it, they’re like ‘yeah I do that, we all have fantasies’, but like no, I’ve spent a week researching what motorbike I’m gonna buy and different kinds of insurance and what helmet I want and bike maintenance and all of these things for something I’m not going to do for at least six months. Before that it was Africa and I was looking up visa applications and making lists of what I should bring with me even though I’m not going any time soon.

        I sort of got baked and vented all of this on to my housemate (because there is no one around to tell me if I’m acting crazy, so I have to let someone know right?) and now I think she’s very freaked out.

        1. CleverManka +2

          I’m sorry you don’t have someone in person to get baked and vent with who can deal with the possible crazy but won’t get freaked out. I’d be there for you if I could!

          1. geekcrackteam +3

            Its ok, I’m actually fine with it; I just forget when I’m baked that people are not used to seeing the neurotic mess in my head.

  38. irreverantontheinternet +28

    CW: Abuse, even though I’m not going into any details.

    There always seems to be an overarching theme in abuse narratives that at some point you forgive your abuser and that’s your ticket to freedom, even if it’s not going to cure your PTSD or anything. Now maybe it’s because I’m a stubborn, bitter Taurus, but I have never forgiven my abuser and don’t really see that happening? I don’t feel like not forgiving him is taking up that much time or energy in my life- it’s not something I think about every day, it’s only on my mind now because I listened to another story that emphasized forgiveness. I’m an atheist so maybe forgiveness just doesn’t have the same weight in my mind. I dunno, this is just a weird thing for me, like am I doing healing wrong?

    1. jennycieplak +33

      I definitely don’t think so! I think the “forgiveness” narratives try to tie things up too neatly in a little bow. I think a much better narrative would be “I’ve become a stronger person and I’m going to speak out against abuse when it see it.”

      Also, I’m reading more and more stories of overcoming abuse without the forgiveness trope, for what it’s worth.

      1. irreverantontheinternet +6

        Do you happen to have links/names for any of those stories? I know I won’t have the emotional energy to get to them for awhile, but I’d love to come back to them

    2. GreenGrasses +33

      I think you’re 100% right that forgiveness dominates narratives of abuse in our society, probably because the people consuming these stories would like a nice tidy ending. You are, in my humble, also-atheist opinion, allowed to feel however you feel about your abuser, including feeling angry forever. If forgiveness is not important to you, then it’s not important period.

    3. Either_Ada +43

      I never have forgiven mine, and I feel very strongly that it’s my right not to (even though when I was much younger people tried to shove me into that narrative). What I actually needed was the liberty to feel whatever feelings without needing to hide, justify, or qualify them, and to be able to identify what happened to me without being gaslit or made to feel like I was doing something wrong by bringing it up. In my case, people very much wanted the trouble to just go away, and if I could just be a good girl and forgive, then it would all be so much nicer for everyone. Forgiveness was about everyone but me. Not forgiving let me name the abuse and give it the gravity everyone else denied it. And he wasn’t particularly sorry about it either.

      I don’t think I’m harmed now by not having forgiven. I don’t really think or feel much about it most of the time. Sometimes I take it out of the metaphorical box and look at it, to remind myself how much I’ve changed since then or to remind myself how to be a better support to friends going through a similar experience. It makes me vaguely sad, because what happened to me was sad, but that’s about it. I know the experiences changed who I became, for better or for worse, but it doesn’t own me and I don’t think I’m doing it wrong because I didn’t wave some wand of absolution over my abuser. I think you should do or not do whatever you think is best for you.

      1. foxinthe_snow +23

        What I actually needed was the liberty to feel whatever feelings without needing to hide, justify, or qualify them, and to be able to identify what happened to me without being gaslit or made to feel like I was doing something wrong by bringing it up.

        This entirely

      3. redheadedwolf +7

        *hugs* Go you. I am so glad you’ve gotten to a place where you can realize what’s best for you and how shitty people were by pressuring you to forgive.

        I was forced to go through a forgiveness script over and over again as a kid, and that will make you cynical quick.

        I also read a lot of the 300-page GRACE (Godly Response to Abuse in Christian Environments) report for BJU, and it was A+ amazing and explained in detail how their treatment of abuse survivors was horrible in so, so many ways. And one thing that I recall now with your comment is how often they (and a lot of crappy people who call themselves Christians) pushed survivors to forgive abusers *at once* as a way, indeed, of shutting them up. And then berating them if they tried to bring it up again. This was done even when CRIMES had been committed, and of course there was no reporting the men involved to police. So yeah, fuck that noise.

    4. PierrePoutine +43

      I think that narrative really simplifies and distorts the idea of letting go of suffering so that it’s a choice between total forgiveness or letting the abuse control your life forever. I much prefer the option of accepting you can’t change the past while owing nothing to the abuser.

      2. leslieellenjones +11

        This entirely. What you have to do is live your life, however you manage/want to do it. You did not ask for abuse, having experienced abuse does not make you complicit in it, and you don’t owe anyone forgiveness for having done it. Furthermore, I’d say it’s abusers who have to accept that they can’t change the past.

        1. PierrePoutine +2

          Furthermore, I’d say it’s abusers who have to accept that they can’t change the past.

          I totally agree, though I think a lot of us have moments when we desperately wish we could go back and somehow avoid the abuse, and that doesn’t help us move on.

      3. ectocool +4

        I much prefer the option of accepting you can’t change the past while owing nothing to the abuser.

        Chiming in late to this: I’ve never heard this said so succinctly. I needed these exact words. Thank you.

    5. kay_hay +23

      I feel kinda weird speaking on behalf of my husband, but as an observer of his life after abuse: he has not and has no intention to forgive his father. But he’s OK with that, and as you said, it’s not taking up time or energy or part of his daily thought process. The problem is that Mister’s grandmother (Abusive Father’s Mother) will not let Mister not forgive. Mister has never asked Grandma to not have a relationship with Father. The Forgiveness Is The Only Way narrative’s pervasiveness is terribly reductive. If you’ve found a way that works for you, live it.

    6. parlato1973 +17

      forgiveness has many faces, i guess? i suppose i could define mine as the time when the person no longer consumed my thoughts, like i was no longer fighting with the narrative in my mind? but otherwise, i have always had a problem with the concept too. i didn’t forgive, i walked away, refused contact, told them to leave me alone for years and then when social media came around, blocked them. it’s always been a big NOPE in my mind, and the only thing that’s changed is that i don’t think about it regularly anymore, and can talk about it without getting furious like i once did.

      1. Social +4

        This is very much how I feel about mine. For a period of time I was angry, and that was healing. I was obsessed with his love life and wanted to intervene every time I saw him getting close to a girl, to warn her what she was getting into. But eventually this passed. I felt like I had reached “forgiveness” when I was just utterly indifferent to him, didn’t care about his life or what happened in it– there was still a little bit of anger but it had turned cold, like my indifference WAS an expression of my anger.

      2. irreverantontheinternet +17

        Yeah, I guess if we’re defining it as “person no longer consumed my thoughts” then I have forgiven, and reaching that point was amazing freeing! As was ceasing contact and blocking (retroactive and preemptive). having them not being a presence in my life is amazing, but when it comes down to it, I have not forgiven them because what they did to me is, in my mind, unforgivable.

        1. parlato1973 +11

          exactly! like, i’ve even come to understand the factors influencing this person’s life that were beyond their control, and seen how maybe they were a victim that was acting out … but what they did to me? unforgivable!

          and i have also decided that they were not only this one person, that maybe they moved on and did change or can do better. i allow the possibility that they have become more than what they did. but it doesn’t change what they did or how i feel about it.

          so all those things that can be the many faces of forgiveness? i can deal with them as long as we’re not actually calling it forgiveness, because i have a problem with that word in this situation.

    7. eegghh +22

      Not the same situation at all but I had a very evil boss and I don’t forgive her, and I never will and I have had some exes that don’t deserve forgiveness.

      One. I don’t think you should necessarily forgive people who haven’t apologized.

      Two, even if someone apologizes, sometimes the consequences of what they did means they don’t get to ever make things ok between themselves and the person they wronged. It’s ok to say, “sorry, no forgiveness for you, go try and fix your life with other people, I’m not interested.”

      Three, you can still heal yourself without forgiveness to the person who harmed you. You can forgive yourself if you need to, you can support yourself, you can move on or cope or do whatever you need to do to have a good life, and still not forgive someone. I don’t think about my shitty old boss most of the time, but when I do, I’m still mad at how she ruined my life for a while. My life is fine now, and I got through it, but would my life be better if those 6 months hadn’t been full of shit? Quite possibly. Aka, I have moved on, but yet, not forgiven anything. If she ever came to me and said she knew what she did was wrong, would I forgive? Unlikely. That’s on her.

      1. irreverantontheinternet +21

        Self-forgiveness was something I would have never considered important looking at abusive relationships from the outside, but coming out of mine wow did I feel like trash and truly hate myself for what had happened to me. I wish more narratives talked about that!

        1. LaxMom +11

          Yep. I had to work through “forgiving” myself for allowing it to happen. Internally I blamed myself for not seeing it, for not getting out, for letting the kids down…I absorbed all of that. Forgiving myself was my first step, realizing I didn’t need to forgive myself because I did nothing wrong was a much bigger step in my healing.

      2. foxinthe_snow +16

        I remember Mallory writing that great piece on What Makes a Victim in which she laid out the steps towards forgiveness: “I do believe that it is possible for many people — for most people — to be redeemed for what they have done wrong. But forgiveness cannot come first. Forgiveness can never come before the hard work of acknowledging, of atoning, of apologizing, of enduring punishment, of changing.”

        Reading that totally changed my attitude towards forgiveness and whether or not I owed it to anyone.

        1. themegnapkin +4

          Somehow I missed that article when it came out. It is AMAZING, as are the comments.

    8. Apfelmoose +28

      My Christian abusers used their religion’s concept of forgiveness to gaslight the hell out of me and that is part of why I am an atheist and also why I 100% reject the forgiveness narrative for myself.

      However… I was born with the usual expectations that a child has of her parents and caregivers and it has been helpful to let go of those expectations in a way that is akin to how countries forgive financial debts… I am not gonna see or speak to or lend those people money ever again, but I am also not gonna waste any more of my time and energy trying to recover the money they owe me.

      Importantly, that ‘financial forgiveness’ concept has nothing to do with letting go of anger or grief, which works for me because I am rather fond of both my anger and grief, having spent 30 years unable to feel them at all.

      That said, this concept of financial forgiveness has so little to do with the Christian-influenced forgiveness narrative pervading our culture that I’m not even sure it’s useful except as a way of carving out space within the forgiveness narrative that says you can’t heal unless you forgive. So if you can reject that narrative completely, then that sounds pretty great and not weird at all.

      tldr You are not doing it wrong. Whatever works for you is the right way to do healing.

      1. irreverantontheinternet +14

        The “financial forgiveness” metaphor is a great on!

        I LOVE my anger, it reminds me not to be complacent and that I have a voice. It also reminds me that something bad happened to me, I did not facilitate or bring something upon myself.

      2. eegghh +13

        Yes, I think that there’s a real difference between releasing expectations and forgiveness. If accepting that someone isn’t let a good person lets you get away from them destroying your life further, and its in your power to let it go, let go expecting them to change or apologize, that’s really good.

        For me, forgiveness is for people who I want to repair things with, to come to a peace with them. You know, a HS ex boyfriend who was a child when he did dumb things, and I was a child too and so we both can kind of say,
        “i’m sorry, we were dumb” and laugh about it. My mother who says difficult things, and then we have to talk it all out and be upset. My cat who destroys things because she’s a cat. A friend who said something thoughtless and apologized so our relationship doesn’t sour. These are the relationships that get forgiveness.

        I think this relentless forgiveness narrative also ties into the idea of closure. People who think closure is something you can be given from other people and it ties things off neatly. To me, there’s no such thing as closure. Time heals wounds, gives you perspective, allows you to change, but there’s no one set of words someone else who hurt you can say to make it all better. Some things don’t get all the way better either. To me closure is when the thing that hurt you doesn’t hurt every day, or most of the time, it just occasionally jabs you from time to time. Forgiveness is like that too, it’s not like you wave a wand and are just…done if you say you forgive.

        1. redheadedwolf +2

          “My cat who destroys things because she’s a cat.”
          Oh my GOSH, yes, that’s such a good example and not at all silly. My cat tore up my incredibly nice leather jacket that I spent a pretty penny on, and while I yelled a lot, I had to get past it. He’s my cat, I’m responsible for feeding and caring for him and showing him love.

          People are a lot more complicated, of course, because of agency and such.

          Also, Mallory agrees with you about closure, she doesn’t believe in it either (at least not the kind where you have one more conversation with an ex and then you’ve found it).

    9. foxinthe_snow +8

      I’ve thought about this a lot too. Occasionally people trying to comfort me will suggest that I’ve changed and so he might have changed also – “You never know” – and insinuate that forgiveness might be a good thing to do. I’ve also considered scenarios in which the people who abused me might seek me out in order to apologise.
      Maybe it’s still too fresh and raw, and the not-thinking about them and the not-being-afraid of them every moment has only stopped comparatively recently, but every time I hear someone suggest forgiveness I want to scream. They don’t get my forgiveness. They don’t get to have anything from me anymore. The only person I need to work on being able to forgive is myself and that is infinitely more important than being able to give someone (or someones) who put me through hell.
      PTSD is still impeding my life to an extent, so I’m probably not removed enough yet to feel anything other than anger, hatred, and fear towards my abusers. Maybe one day I will try for pity, but I’m not sure about forgiveness.

    10. Virginia +8

      I don’t forgive them. But I have practiced hard to assign them the level of importance in my life that I feel is appropriate: which is none.

    11. SingArielSing +15

      Everyone else who has responded here is so eloquent and thoughtful and compassionate and smart, and I basically find things to agree with in every comment, so I’ll just distill my response to:

      I cannot forgive a handful of people from my past who have inflicted harm upon me and mine. That being said, even if I could — I wouldn’t. Some things are unforgivable. They do not deserve my or anyone’s forgiveness. I will never stop knowing that what they did to me was wrong; I will never not hate them for their actions. But for me, forgiveness isn’t and hasn’t ever been a factor in my own healing. They’re out of my life. My healing process is about me, not them; I feel more healed when my symptoms of PTSD have diminished, when I’m not focused on them and their abuse constantly, when they are just a short, shitty chapter or an irritating footnote in my long and storied history, when I can happily and gracefully live in my present life. Forgiveness doesn’t have anything to do with any of that. It’s a nonissue. I relieve myself of the burden of it.

    12. AmyEntropy +5

      I always struggled with understanding what forgiveness IS, and I’m still not 100% certain, but someone gave me this definition once and it’s the only one that’s ever made sense to me. When someone has borrowed money from you and can’t/won’t pay it back, and you forgive their debt, it means they don’t have to pay back the money. And that’s all. It doesn’t mean you forget they didn’t pay back the money, it doesn’t mean you’ll loan money to them again.

    13. Goomaly +7

      Forgiveness has a place in my narrative, but not in the sense of forgiving my abuser. In the sense of forgiving myself for letting that happen to me.

      I agree that i wouldn’t want anger or resentment about the abuse to be on my mind constantly. But living a healthy life, free from abuse and anger and resentment etc, is totally different from forgiving. Maybe that’s the shorthand people are using but I don’t like it.

      ETA also I can’t listen to /read abuse/forgiveness narratives because I can’t stand them. Physically my whole body tenses up and my brain goes numb. Will forgiveness help that? haha no.

    14. LaxMom +14

      FUCK NO FUCK NO FUCK NO. You aren’t doing anything wrong.
      I stand by my guns on this one, and I just gave my sister this lecture. You owe the abuser NOTHING. Forgiveness is a made up construct to make people feel better–if it doesn’t make you feel better then throw it to the curb.
      I have gone over this with 3 therapists now–one didn’t get it, I dropped her. He changed my life. He altered my career, my personality, my finances, my body, my brain (the whole connection to abuse/depression/autoimmune disorders). Like it or hate it, it’s what has shaped who I am and if I forgive him I deny me. I deny that any of that matters. Forgiving him (this is how I feel, it doesn’t mean I’m right) feels like erasing what he’s done–I can’t pretend it didn’t happen, I have the physical scars and PTSD and depression meds to prove it. Forgiving him minimizes how hard I’ve worked to get past him and recover my own self.
      I personally equate forgiveness with 1. denial/erasure of the bad actions and 2. acceptance/approval of the bad behavior/actions. Hell the fuck no. I don’t forgive, I don’t forget. He did this to me, it changed who I am, it will never be ok that he did those things. *I* will be ok, but what he did will NEVER be ok, and I’m certainly not going to “forgive” and give anyone any illusion that I find his behavior acceptable.
      Forgiving him to me feels like completely negating my years of abuse. “Oh, it’s ok now, I forgive him”. No. I don’t. I live my life and I make the best choices I can going forward, but I will not turn over and pretend the person who abused me deserves forgiveness/absolution/to feel better about themselves.

      Especially cheating husbands, they use your forgiveness to show other people and justify in their own mind, “Look, it’s ok, I’m not a bad guy, she forgave me”. No.

      Sorry to be so strident. I haven’t even read the responses, but like I said, I have my dander up on this one due to just having given my sister the “you don’t ever have to be ok being in the same room with him, or being nice to him, or being polite to him. You owe him no comfort, no courtesy, nothing. You are allowed to not want him around and not treat him well. He didn’t care about treating you well.”
      Too many people want women to forgive because they get sympathy fatigue. They get tired of hearing things and bored of our recovery and just want everything to be better. Too many people equate forgiveness with being nice, and remembrance with bitterness/anger. I am allowed to remember. I am allowed to always be angry when I think of what he did. Of course wallowing in anger is bad, but if I just forget, I’ll slip back into those behaviors with the next guy. If I forget, I’ll think that voice he installed in my head is right and go right back to suicidal thoughts. If I forget, I’m denying that I have come through this and out the other side much, much stronger. I am NOT the same person.
      Forgiveness is for other people. It’s possible to be a moral human being without it.

    15. redheadedwolf +5

      Jumping in late to say that even as an extremely laid-back Christian, I haven’t formally forgiven my dad for a lifetime of abuse. My situation is a bit trickier because I came to realize in my teens that he’s mentally ill, albeit in a high-functioning way that meant he got custody of us after the divorce when I was 8. And then I got to wrestle with even more fun ideas like “can you hate or blame a mentally ill person for what they’re doing, are they even responsible,” etc. I managed to work through a lot of that with my therapist.

      So I never talk to my dad, no contact, but I’m also not worked up anymore about my childhood or what I went through. It doesn’t bother or affect me in my current life. I’ve moved past it. But I’m never going to say the words “I forgive you” to him (not unless there was something like a million dollars if I did, or if it would mean a lot to a loved one who was dying).

      So yeah! I don’t think you have to embrace the notion of forgiveness. It is not something abusers are entitled to at some point, even if they express remorse and try to atone for their actions in whatever way.

    16. Fromage Frais +2

      There are lots of very thoughtful comments here, and I’ve found something helpful in all of them.

      I spent years thinking forgiveness meant I condoned the actions of my parents and abusers. I spent years trying desperately to understand them so I could forgive them, because this is what I thought I had to do to be free and heal. And it didn’t work.

      For me, it didn’t work because I didn’t fundamentally acknowledge that what happened to me was wrong, that it wasn’t my fault, that I couldn’t do anything about it, and that nothing at all would ever make what happened to me ok. I needed to have that hard core of truth in my life because so much of my abuse was accompanied by gaslighting and blaming and lying.

      I thought I was wrestling with the dilemma of how to forgive an injury that the person denies inflicting and even denies is an injury at all.

      What I needed to learn was the confidence to be rooted in my story, and know that this was my truth, and that no one and nothing could take it away from me. What happened, happened. What happened was wrong. Nothing will change that.

      And when I really accepted that, I was able to feel pure anger and sadness about it for the first time ever. And that was the point where I was able to forgive. Forgive in the sense that I was able to know that what happened was in the past – it didn’t live with me constantly, and when it did make itself known, I was more able to recognise it and put it into context. Forgive in the sense that my story was no longer about them, that I no longer needed them to validate my truth. That I had no expectations of them, no need of them. Nothing.

      I will never tell these people I forgive them. I don’t need their approval or their love or their sympathy or their sadness. I can feel sorry for them that they had difficult lives. But they knew what they were doing. And they have to live with that, not me.

  39. Theo_Winterwood +23

    Has anyone else seen Neighbors 2?

    I enjoy dumb comedies well enough sometimes, but I enjoyed it more than I expected. I think it was the whole thing with, “Well, we want to start a sorority where we can have fun parties with our friends that we actually enjoy and can be ourselves at, instead of having to go to frat parties, which are creepy and terrible and make us feel unsafe.”

    Also the engagement scene. The engagement scene was everything I didn’t even know I wanted from this movie, because I didn’t know I was even allowed to expect that kind of thing from this movie.

    1. sausagedog +4

      I was dragged to the original Neighbors against my will and ended up enjoying it a remarkable lot, so I’ve been tempted to see the sequel. Good to hear that it’s not terrible/actually fun!

      1. Theo_Winterwood +9

        I saw the first one for reasons I can’t quite explain (when I say I enjoy dumb comedies sometimes, that means there are a lot more that I don’t than I do) and enjoyed it more than I thought I would too. If I remember right, I think I laughed more during the first one, but I actually think I enjoyed this one more in a more lasting way.

        It’s the little things, like Zac Efron ends up quasi-mentoring the sorority girls for part of the movie and he spends the whole movie treating them like people with whose sisterhood is important to him, instead of, like, hot college girls or something. Little things like it being an R-rated comedy about a sorority without any topless girls ever. And Pete. I could probably write an essay about what Pete’s subplot means in the grand scope of bro comedy.

        1. SingArielSing +3

          Yay, I’m excited to hear you liked it! I also enjoyed the first one way more than I expected to, so I’ve been tentatively looking forward to the sequel, but unsure of how well it would be handled. Now I know what my next dumb comedy to watch will be!

  40. jennycieplak +31

    Apropos of nothing, my mother told me I definitely should not get a BMW because her neighbors had a Volvo and the maintenance was super-expensive. (I want a Subaru anyway.)

    Moral: When considering a significant purchase, don’t tell anyone or else you will get their unsolicited opinions FOREVER. I don’t know why I keep making this mistake!

    1. houblonchouffe +7

      BMW =/= Subaru?!? I am so confused but also fully support your AWD goal.

      1. jennycieplak +3

        I just want a car that goes fast (Subaru WRX). Spouse and parents want me to get something with AWD. I had made an offhand comment about how my spouse suggested a BMW. So the BMW point I suppose made sense… But yeah, don’t see how Volvo got into the mix!

        1. Notreallydorine +2

          WRX is all-wheel drive. SO FUN. Don’t get the STI (cop magnet), but the current WRX is great. I love mine and will answer any and all questions, if you want.

          ETA: Of course, get the STI if that is your thing, I didn’t realize how bossy that sounded. I meant that the WRX is just as much fun for all intents and purposes for those of us who are not actually racing someone in a tricked-out Honda Civic up Main Street.

    3. bocadelperro +5

      I made the mistake of mentioning to my inlaws that we were thinking of offering on a house.
      Later (and I thought unrelatedly) I mentioned that it would be nice to replace my 2001 toyota camry with one of the forthcoming ford rangers or broncos (debuting in 2019 and 2020, respectively) and I got a very concerned line of questions regarding managing a mortgage and paying for a new car. Whoooops!!

  41. drSugarbean +31

    I had been posting here intermittently about my intense work schedule (multiple months where I didn’t get even one day off) in academia and my chronic headache. I think I’m finally burnt out. I’m going to talk to my extremely unsympathetic supervisor about leaving this job and needing a reference. Send me your good thoughts, please, I need them.

  42. Ivans_Sister +6

    What a morning this has been. I’m in California but am working east coast hours today (was at my desk at 10 to 5!) because I have a meeting starting in one minute that I had to do MANY last minute changes to the presentation deck for. Good grief. I hate doing last minute edits. I think I’m on an adrenaline rush right now!

  43. eastcoastanne +7

    Two very different questions:
    1. Can people give me first hand affirmations that menstrual cups work while swimming?

    2. JOBS. I work at a university while getting my MBA. I had a fairly administrative job, but was able to move up last November into something more finance related, although it is grants management. I don’t intend to work in grant management after I graduate. Someone from my previous part of the university called me yesterday offering me a finance analyst job there. I would be essentially tracking and running finances for the school directly under the finance director. Basically where I am is, pay is slightly better, tasks are more related to what I would do long term. But job is more individual (I have been enjoying the team environment at my current job), and the finance director has not yet been hired so I can’t meet him or her first. Is it bad to consider a move after 6 months if it is still at the same employer? I feel like I am a mix of feeling like I enjoy the people I am working with and would feel guilty to leave. I am not sure if this is the right thing to consider. I had a crisis last week, and my supervisor let me take time off and save my day of leave for ‘something fun.’ That is so kind and an important part of work too right?

    1. sausagedog +7

      In response to (2): no, it’s not bad to move jobs after 6 months if it’s at the same employer– on your resume, you can list it all under the heading of a single employer, and it will just look like reorganization or promotion. No problem! Also, I am not you, but I think I’d take the new position? It sounds like you’d have more responsibility– if you want to make a career at that place, that’s good in the long run, and maybe at some point you’ll be able to leverage that greater power into building your own team. But it just comes down to what you want to get out of work. You got this, and congrats on being a useful and capable person who earns that kind of opportunity!

    2. chickpeas +2

      #1 — yep. Fine for laps, recreational swimming, snorkeling, floating around and daydreaming, basically whatever you are gonna do in the water. I have tested extensively. : )

    4. lemonack +5

      I have gone swimming with my cup and had no problems! If you’re nervous, empty and replace before you get in the water.

      Just be sure you go empty the cup after you’re out of the pool. All the muscular movement in swimming means that sometimes water can get up in there and hang out in the cup.

    5. tinypaperme +4

      I think the “at the same employer” part doesn’t apply the same way at universities as it does in industry/corporate contexts – at least, at my university, it’s pretty common for people to move around internally, even when they’ve only been in one position for a short period.

    6. dorianneemmerton +4

      I work in HR for the government and people move around internally all. the. time. This sounds like it will look like a move up after 6 months so it will look really good on your resume.

      And I swim with my cup in, never had problems.

    7. _bartleby +4

      1. Yes, as long as you’re inserting it properly. Practice a few times beforehand.

      2. At the end of the day there are two things to consider: your everyday work experience, and your forward-planning career capital. If you think this new role will help you learn things you need to learn (doubtful, if you’re getting an MBA) or push your resume in the direction you want it to go (yes, if you ultimately want to work as a financial analyst), then consider it.

      Work culture is important too. If you’re going to be overworked and miserable, or if the team could hire a bad boss, that might be a dealbreaker. I’ve turned down a few internal offers and “promotions” to jobs that are ostensibly more up my alley because I didn’t like the team culture, the supervisor, or the job itself. My existing job is a great mix of easy and challenging, collaborative and individual, known and unknown. It would take a very good offer to move me from it.

      Finally, I wouldn’t view this as a bad move resume-wise–seems more like a promotion or realignment!

    8. ladyimogen +4

      Hi! I work at a university and got my MPA while working in grants, and am now a fiscal analyst. I think the six-month part is still worth considering, depending on the size of your university- it may be worth it for the move, but it could leave bad feelings in your current dept. if you leave so soon, since they’ll have to bring someone else on all over again and handle training, which (at least at most Us) is a long process. If you have a really great relationship with your current boss, it might be worth discussing. The size of your university might matter here, too.
      Grants management is a valuable skill set to have as you move into the finance world, and if changing employers is in your future, it’s something that makes it easier to get a lot of university finance jobs.
      That said, if the offer on the table is really in line with what you want to be doing- if this is the job you were hoping to move to down the road- then it’s certainly worth exploring further!
      Good luck either way!

    9. sneepsnake +2

      I have to dissent with all the yes responses to #1, but with a caveat. My swim workouts are around 2 hrs/8,000 yards, and a cup just does not work for me under those circumstances. If I’m just swimming laps for half an hour, it’s fine.

  44. kaylaelisabethblog +20

    I’m going to the Wizarding World of Harry Potter in Orlando (and Universal. But I’m going there for Harry Potter.) and I’m really excited about it. Who has been there? What are the “must do” attractions?

    1. Mrs_Olinski +8

      yay Harry Potter world! You should go to Olivanders shop. It’s adorable. They select kids from the crowd to try out different wands and they have clever doors that open and close when the kids wave them around. Honeydukes looks exactly like you think it would and is full of treats. When I was there the line for the main castle ride was long, but its worth it. I haven’t been since they added the train station and more shops, but my mom went when she was in Orlando for a conference and said it was all really fun.

      I would drink the real beer instead of the butterbeer. and eat a lot of chocolate frogs!

      1. kaylaelisabethblog +5

        Awesome. I’m debating on buying a wand even though I’m a full grown adult and I’m not going with any children.
        I’m so excited! I’ll definitely have to do the main castle ride.

        1. HelloChel +3

          I bought a wand and I am an adult who was not with any children. They have two types, the more expensive ones work in various locations in the park (it comes with a map) and let you do magic. It was fun. I’m not sure how much more expensive it was then the regular wand, I didn’t realize that is what I had picked up and didn’t want to go through the line again.

          Also, frozen butterbeer is delicious. I want one now.

      2. laurensherm +3

        I went to the HP World in California and was chosen to get a wand! I assumed it was kids only but I am very clearly in my late 20s. It was amazing. touchdowntonabbey, definitely go to Ollivanders, you might be chosen!

    2. fenixdawn +5

      I have been! It was awesome!!! The rides with long lines are totally worth the wait (Hogwarts and Gringotts). I liked the Hogwarts one the best, so if you had to prioritize that’s what I would go with. Pro tip–when you ride the Hogwarts Express, it is slightly different for each way, so if you want to see both rides, you have to ride it in both directions.

      I did not buy a wand (as I am a grown adult woman, and also money just adds up there) but do I regret that decision? MAYBE. PROBABLY.

    3. BiadeMedici +3

      I don’t remember what it’s called exactly, but there’s a really fun sort of light roller coaster thing that takes you through caves and various Hogwarts scenes — it feels a lot like Small World but quite a bit more intense (you get turned upside down and spun quite a bit, but it’s nowhere near what an actual roller coaster would be. Sorry I do not have better terminology for this!) I still have a photo that I treasure of my family looking like goofs on this ride.

    4. kaylar_beastie +4

      I went when it first opened! Literally opening weekend, it was nuts. I don’t know a lot of the newer stuff but the castle ride is super cool, and you have to drink a ton of butter beer. Butter beer tastes like love.

    6. exitpursuedbyaclaire +4

      DO EVERYTHING, everything is beautiful and full of excellent detail, and it’s like you’re really there, and I may have a lot of emotions?

      Serious recs:
      * if you have always wanted to do magic, get a working wand. The spell effects are extremely well done, like everything in the park. I am a fully grown adult, and I did most of the spells multiple times, because I was working magic! It was so cool!
      * For the two big rides, Gringotts and Hogwarts, you have the option of doing a “walking tour,” where you walk through the whole building at your own pace rather than standing in line. If you have to use the single-rider line to get on the ride within a reasonable time, do go back and do the full tour so you can hear all the dialogue and see all the setting–the single rider lines don’t get the whole thing (at least for Hogwarts. Not 100% positive about Gringotts.).

    7. lantanalantana +1

      Oh, it is the best! They spent so much on the little details. Even standing in line at the Castle is fun.

      Yes to what everyone else said about getting a wand. if you’re the kind of person who gets to the park when it opens, the line at Ollivander’s is usually short then. If you get the working wand, make sure to take a good look around Knockturn Alley.

      Everything was awesome. Make sure you take the Hogwarts Express between the two areas. And the shops (Honeydukes, Eyelops Owl Emporium, the bookstore) are surprisingly great – so much detail in the decorations – and some cool stuff to purchase, too.

      The food was typical expensive park food with a Potter-twist, but the frozen butterbeer was excellent and very refreshing.

    8. fleurdamour +2

      Even if you don’t want to ride the ride in the Universal Hollywood Hogwarts Castle (I did not, because motion sickness – I could never be an astronaut), be sure to get on the line and walk through the castle anyway. It’s full of cool props from the films. At the very end you have the opportunity to literally ‘exit through the gift shop’ rather than get on the ride. And take some extra cash for things like chocolate frogs in the candy shop. Have fun!

    9. elle_vee +1

      How exciting! You may know all of this already, but just in case:

      (1) If you can swing staying on site, there are two advantages: (a) of all, you get early entrance to the parks, and second of (b), you get a front-of-the-line pass. The pass doesn’t work on all attractions (including most, if not all, of the HP-associated attractions), but it does allow you to take your time with the HP stuff and still get to enjoy other parts of the parks. You can buy the pass if you don’t stay on site, but given the cost, you can usually justify spending more to stay on site and having the pass included. NB: I think that their newest/most affordable hotel doesn’t include the pass, so definitely check into that if you’re considering staying there.

      (2) Universal actually consists of two parks, and the Hogwarts/Hogsmeade area and the London/Diagon Alley are in different parks, connected by the Hogwarts Express. To ride the Express, you’ll need to have tickets that allow you to visit both parks in the same day.

      (3) Ollivander’s is awesome but definitely gets very crowded. Go as early in the day as possible, or else, wait until late afternoon/early evening.

      (4) Relatedly, Universal closes earlier than the WDW parks and, unlike WDW, the crowds actually thin in late afternoon (usually around 4/5 PM, depending on time of year). If you’re not able to be there first thing in the morning, or you don’t get to experience everything before the mid-day rush, consider coming back later in the day. For me, taking a break and spending mid-day out of the heat is critical to my enjoyment.

      (5) The locker situation at Universal confuses me, so I do everything I can to avoid carrying stuff. If you plan to use a locker, it might be worth looking into how it works ahead of time.

      (6) [and most important] Embrace your inner child. On my last visit, my friends and I dressed up in Quidditch gear, complete with aviator goggles, and it was awesome. If you find yourself thinking, “I’d like to X, but I’m an adult, so wouldn’t that be weird?”, just do X. If the high cost of purchasing a wand, costume, etc, in the parks would put you off, consider purchasing things in advance online. I haven’t looked, but I would guess you could get the fancy wands for a reasonable price if it’s not important to you to buy yours in the store.

      Hope you have an amazing time!

  45. Scared_Vagina +13

    I thiiiink someone is going to call me and offer me a job in 15 mins that I should want, but I don’t. It involves working from home (NOPE) or relocating (also nope, not right now) and I also think I would find it challenging for 3-6 months and then be bored/hate it.
    So I need to get my shit in order and use it to leverage something better in my current place. Just booked my work friend/crush/career advisor in for an emergency pow-wow tomorrow evening but in the meantime I have to be chill and say ‘I’ll think about it’ on the phone and I have never done that before and I hate negotiating.

    /stream of consciousness panicking

    1. tinypaperme +3

      Why do you have to relocate if it’s working from home? (Sorry, that was nosy of me…)

      1. Scared_Vagina +5

        Well I’d have the choice, they don’t have an office in my city so I can either work remotely from here or relocate to a city where they do have an office.

        (don’t worry about the noseyness, I volunteered the info after all!)

    2. gclouts +14

      Sorry, I probably should have said what it is about. 3 women have turned themselves over to the police in Northern Ireland for taking abortion pills with the hope that it will cause a trial leading to the repeal of the 1861 law banning abortions in Northern Ireland.

    3. Jungle_Red +17

      They are so brave! I can’t believe these are the still the laws in Northern Ireland. It’s also interesting how none of the 3 are of child-bearing age, making this purely political–they are awesome!

      “King, 72, a retired social worker, said she felt compelled to make a stand because she felt so angry about the prosecutions. “It is unforgivable how women are being treated. I am handing myself in to the police to inform them that I have procured the nine-week abortion pills on several occasions,” she said before making her way to the police station.”

    4. Scared_Vagina +14

      What these women are doing is important and amazing. How amazing would it be if people all over the island of Ireland did the same? Like Spartacus but with abortions.

    5. bibliophibian +51

      “The three [older, retired] women put themselves forward ahead of younger women, because they no longer have jobs that might be affected by a criminal record.”

      And THAT, ladies and gentlemen, is how to be too witches.

    6. foxinthe_snow +8

      If they have £1,000-£2,000 to spare they can travel to England or Wales for an abortion; Northern Ireland residents are not eligible for the procedure on the NHS and have to pay for private treatment, as well as the cost of the flight and hotels.

      This makes me so angry because it’s not like Northern Ireland isn’t part of the UK, and given that the health services in the UK are generally funded through central taxation, surely NHS access should be free for residents of Northern Ireland?! Given that other NHS and HSC services are free to residents of all UK countries, it seems particularly backward that this one service is not.

  47. Hey_Cinderella +7

    I just learned that instead of going to the beach for a week, our vacation this year will instead be a long weekend in Bozeman, Montana for a friend’s wedding (were he not a dear friend I would have sent him a nice present and then a postcard from the beach, but there you go). Any Toasties in/from Bozeman who can tell me all the great things about the area? The wedding is Labor Day weekend, which means we’ll probably be avoiding the hordes at Yellowstone (even though that would normally be totally our jam) so any suggestions about fun things to do in that area of Montana would be much appreciated!

    1. thebellewitch +2

      Eat at MacKenzie River Pizza! You MUST. It is so good.

      Bozeman is beautiful, and I am jealous of your trip there. Sacajawea Peak is a great relatively short (4 miles) but steepish hike with amazing views – just go early and watch for afternoon thunderstorms, as it’s quite exposed. Hyalite Reservoir is right outside of town and has pretty trails.

      Chico Hot Springs is an hour away from Bozeman and has a fabulous fancy restaurant in the lodge attached to the pools. Might not be the beach, but you can swim and soak anyway!

    2. Thujaplicata +2

      You can hit me up! I’m going to disagree with thebellewitch just a bit because MacKenzie River Pizza isn’t as good as it used to be. Still tasty, but I think you should get pizza at Bridger Brewing instead. And if you don’t like beer, their root beer and ginger beer is delicious.
      If you want more suggestions, hit me up at thujaplicatamt at gmail dot com I’d totally be up for getting tea or coffee while you’re here if scheduling works out.

      1. Hey_Cinderella +1

        We’re still working out details, but you can probably expect an email from me. And if we’ve got the time, I am definitely down with chilling with a fellow Toasty!

      2. thebellewitch +1

        Don’t tell me MacKenzie River has gone downhill, I may cry. Maybe the one in Billings is still good (she says hopefully)? My husband is from there so that’s the most recent restaurant I’ve visited. It’s been longer since we’ve been to Bozeman.

        1. Thujaplicata +1

          Well, I have been in Bozeman for almost 12 years, so it just isn’t quite as good as it was when I first moved here. It’s still very tasty though, you don’t have to be sad!

          1. thebellewitch +1

            Okay, I’m relieved to hear that! We live in Denver now and I find this city’s pizza options pretty uninspiring, so I have a tendency to hold MacKenzie River up as the ideal.

  48. SmrtCookie +10

    It’s summer and I just got a propane grill! It’s been years since I’ve used one and even that was mostly burgers. What are your favorite recipes/techniques/things to grill??

    1. aravisthequeen +3

      I know nothing about gas grills of any type as I have only ever grilled on charcoal, but I had an excellent kickoff with burgers and asparagus last night. For asparagus, drizzle with oil and salt and pepper, place on hot grill and cook 5 minutes, turning every minute or so.

      Also good: bbq chicken on indirect heat. Packets of sliced potatoes and onions in tinfoil, or green beans with tinfoil (drizzle a little oil in either of those), cooked over indirect heat about 20-30 minutes until done and steaming. Kebabs with alternating chunks of meat and veggie. Well, any type of kebab works. You can get a grill basket for more effective veggie grilling (including smaller things like Brussels sprouts and mushrooms and stuff).

      1. VioletandIrises +2

        Seconding asparagus–I had grilled asparagus with lime juice at a restaurant recently and it was delicious.

    2. urspostrophe +3

      Last summer a friend introduced me to grilled zucchini, sliced in strips and drizzled with olive oil and rosemary. It is sooooo good.

    4. Hey_Cinderella +2

      I am 100% all about the kebabs. I love the kind where you marinate chicken in yogurts and various herbs and spices, and the rosemary and balsamic one here: http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/build-your-own…. We make a double batch (and I use an immersion blender to turn it into a paste) and I marinade a big batch of meat with some and slather the rest on mushrooms, peppers, and anything else we feel like throwing on the kebab and it’s glorious.
      I’m also really into grilling pineapple right now (on a skewer, sometimes with red bell pepper) and as soon as it’s peach season, we will be grilling peach halves and topping them with ice cream.

      And grilled baby potatoes! Microwave them until they’re about tender and then coat them with olive oil, put them on a skewer, and grill those bad boys. Serve with entirely too much sour cream or, if you’re feeling decadent, a big glob of creme fraiche.

    5. daisicles +2

      I am particularly fond of ham steaks on the grill. Obviously they don’t need much time since they’re just getting reheated, but they get this nice flavor that’s almost reminiscient of beef steak.

    6. feelingofgaze +3

      Grill all the things!

      I basically don’t use the kitchen during the summer, just throw everything on the grill. Potatoes and onions in foil, like Aravis mentioned, are a staple for us.

      Whole corn on the cob, don’t husk it, just throw in on and turn it occasionally. The corn will steam while the husk chars, and the silk just slides right off when it’s done.

      Beer can chicken. Buy a tall can, drink half of it, throw in some herbs and lemon if you feel like it, and stick it up the chicken cavity. The chicken stands up straight while it roasts, so you get max crispy skin.

      For fish/seafood/anything more delicate, cook on a soaked wooden plank (usually cedar, but you can also get hickory, cherry, etc)

    8. Notreallydorine +2

      This sounds weird, but trust me: green beans. You have to put them in a grill pan (or I guess aluminum foil would work?) but they get a great flavor from the grill.

      Also, seconding comments above re: zucchini and pineapple. My spouse has had good luck with eggplant on the grill, but I find it hard to get right.

      Have also cooked chocolate-chip cookies on the grill. Worked fine. . . wasn’t that much different than the oven, though, since we just used a small baking sheet.

  49. helvetica547 +27

    I am writing my Master’s thesis and the only thing I want to say at this point is “What’s with all the Latin, you law people!?” Why do we have to say “inter alia”, if we could just say “among other things” and it would mean *literally* the same thing.
    Why do I have to google Latin phrases to know what you mean, you pretentious scholar person.

    1. Nashirakins +9

      Thankfully, not all law people are wedded to the Latin. Iirc, Maryland has been trying to move to plain English where possible, since the Latin annoyed a few big deal judges in the state.

    2. beyoncepadthai1 +15

      this is what I think every time my colleagues insist on giving their ‘nihil obstat’ to something!! we work in a bank not the Vatican

    3. BiadeMedici +6

      I have a pretty high tolerance for Latin in stuff I’m reading but I started doing international law recently and *this. made. me. go. completely. insane.* Entire sentences that say utterly banal things. In ARBITRAL DECISIONS. just. stop.

    4. Scared_Vagina +12

      BFF is a lawyer and I am a linguist and we love using pretentious latin in regular speech because we are nerds.

    5. _bartleby +5

      I have this gripe with philosophy and literary criticism, too. Some phrases need to be Latin (“deus ex machina”), but many do not (untranslated Camus, Dante, etc)

    2. VioletandIrises +3

      I forgot this premiered and I have to go watch it immediately when I get home. Right after I finish season 2 of Grace and Frankie. I <3 Maria.

  51. bookwormV +9

    Ugh, I came down with a cold at the end of last week, spent the weekend ill (and we had people over for dinner, a super-rare event) and am now at the tail end of it, so I am well enough to be at work, but still feeling generally a bit blergh and like I would quite appreciate a day off.

    Something I have been meaning to bring up on an Open Thread at some point: Toasties on the autism spectrum, what led to your diagnosis? It is something I have been wondering about myself for a long time. It’s not a particularly pressing issue, as I am fine, generally; I have a job and a loving partner and a reasonably happy life, and if I do turn out to have some sort of ASD thing the impact on my life is sufficiently low that I’m not deeply concerned about looking into it. But I spend quite a bit of time wondering if certain traits and behaviours are within the realm of “normal” or if they are something else. These include: (in reply)

    1. bookwormV +5

      – Lifelong feeling of difficulty relating to people, often feeling on the outside of social situations and not understanding how to be on the inside with everyone else. Few friends, particularly close ones.
      – Difficulty coping with change, however minor; if I have expected something to be a certain way and then it isn’t, I get thrown off-balance easily. (For example: not being able to buy my preferred newspaper on a Saturday; an unexpected after-work invitation; a deviation from the week’s meal plan.)
      – Strong feelings about “the rules” and difficulty deviating from them, even if I am still keeping to the spirit if not the letter. My school uniform shirt was buttoned to the top every day; I am not good at lying. I get irrationally distressed and annoyed if I see people breaking social rules of politeness in public.
      – Visceral dislike of certain sensory inputs (noises and textures, mostly). If I touch the wrong thing, or even imagine touching it, I feel shivery and wrong and have to touch something else to reset my touch receptors. If I am feeling distressed, any noise feels completely overwhelming.
      – Rocking repetitively when distressed.
      – A tendency to get obsessive about things and want to learn everything about them, with a particular fondness for memorising lists of stuff.
      – Diagnosed with depression.

      As I said, none of this stuff is really causing me significant difficulty or distress; I am fine. But i would be interested to hear from people, whether it’s “I do all of these things and am definitely not autistic; it’s well within the bounds of neurotypical human behaviour” or “Yes, that sounds textbook ASD”.

      1. aiquale +2

        I’m not a licensed psychologist, so I can’t give you a definitive answer, but as someone who was diagnosed as being mildly/highly-functioning autistic this last year, I can share what I’ve learned about autism and how it presents in high-functioning women.

        The behaviors you listed are indeed considered to be autistic traits, particularly since they could each fit in one of the three categories used to diagnose autism – sensory difficulties, social difficulties, and obsessive/repetitive interests.

        When I was first diagnosed I found these websites to be very helpful:

        – A site run by a woman with Asperger’s (now just called high-functioning autism) for autistic women & girls. Her master list of how autism can manifest in women was super enlightening

        – A fantastic Tumblr post that illustrates what the autistic spectrum actually looks like

        – An article on a great autistic research website about the “lost generation of girls” who have ASD but were not diagnosed until they were adults or not at all.

        I have tons of links, book recommendations, etc. if you’re interested. If you’re only mildly autistic getting diagnosed may not make a big difference. For me, it was hugely helpful in understanding my struggles with depression and anxiety. Having the knowledge that my brain is wired differently and that’s ok, helps me be kinder to myself and to invest in creating a self-care routine that works for me and my struggles.

        I created a google group for Autistic Toasties (self OR officially diagnosed) that you are more than welcome to join, if you like. Just email me at: bookishbroadtoastie(at)gmail(dot)com. I’m also on twitter as @bookishbroad. My account is locked, but I always approve requests by Toasties.

        Either way, I hope your search gives you peace of mind. Best of luck!

        1. bookwormV +3

          That master list about autism in women is really interesting, thank you – a lot of them are very like me (although a lot of them aren’t, and I’m wary of doing the Forer Effect thing of overidentifying with something that could apply to lots of people). Some are things I hadn’t realised were related to ASD – I was a self-taught reader, for example, and I had always assumed that everyone preferred animals to humans (according to my partner that is not the case).

      2. Mrs_Peel +4

        I haven’t gone through the whole diagnostic testing rigamarole, but 100% of what you’ve written could have been written by me.

        I have a lot of relatives who have been officially diagnosed as being on the spectrum (including my mom), and many of them have the same types of issues you’ve described. Especially being very routine-bound and rule-obeying. And a number of them have dealt with depression as well.

        My mom is in the “high functioning” category and didn’t get diagnosed until she was in her 40s. I think the diagnosis was a very important thing for her, because (even though it didn’t have much obvious impact on her daily life, work, etc.), she finally understood why she felt different from everyone else. I think it helped considerably with her depression issues as well.

      3. biggaymachine +2

        Just to add a third voice, that sure sounds like autistic stuff to me. In particular, I get the impression that sensory stuff like what you describe is not usual for neurotypicals, and I don’t ever seem to observe anyone else rocking or stimming like I do. Some of the other things you mention would probably in isolation be within the bounds of normal neurotypical behavior, but they’re all common parts of the autistic experience and taken together I think it all adds up to something pretty suggestive of autism. Also, I am most definitely autistic and the traits you’ve listed sound just like me, for whatever that’s worth.

  52. danelleorange +55

    My cat turned on the vacuum yesterday while I was at work.

    It was traumatising(ly hilarious), but he seems fine now, and the terrible monster has been unplugged and hidden away.

    1. hummingrose +14

      I once made the mistake of leaving my ironing board out when I went to work. (The iron was not plugged in.) I came home to it on the floor, and for the rest of her life my cat would run in panic whenever I even hinted at taking it out.

  53. sluts4ever +11

    Last night my man friend showed me Alaskan Bush People. Were the Toast not ending soon I would request that Mallory start watching from the beginning and chronicle her thoughts and feels, particularly around Noah and the bears that ruin their shelter every time they go to the Lower 48. Alaska Bush People is the realest of reality TV.

    Anyway. I met my man friend on Tinder and I’m still surprised such a shitty app linked me to someone who I genuinely find very interesting/attractive. We had a drunken conversation about exclusivity but I can’t remember where we landed, and I’m trying to find an appropriate time to bring it up again. Would I be a little hurt if he hooked up with another girl? Yes. But do I sort of want free reign on my upcoming vacations? Also yes. Which is more important? I do not know.

    1. LadyPoopjokes +5

      Cosigning the “pleasantly surprised with Tinder” and also the “ambiguous level of exclusivity” and also the “having important conversations while drunk and not remembering key details”

  54. jenavira +14

    This is your daily reminder that WisCon40, the instersectional feminist science fiction and fantasy convention, is this weekend in Madison, Wisconsin! I will not shut up about this for a month, I am so excited. And if you’re vaguely curious but can’t commit to the whole weekend you can get admission on Friday or Monday (which includes the Friday night Hamilton singalong) for the low, low price of FREE.

    On a related note: I’m on a panel called Speculative Asexuality: The Robot, the Alien, and the Human, about asexual representation in sf/f. I actually proposed this panel, and one of the questions I wanted to discuss was the use of romantic subplots to “humanize” aliens and androids and other characters who have no particular reason to have human sexualities. And…now I can’t really think of a lot of examples? I feel like this is a thing that has annoyed me for a long time and now I can’t come up with, well, anything. (Other than Ex Machina, there is going to be a lot of Ex Machina in this panel, but that’s fairly recent.) Anybody else know what I’m talking about here?

    1. sausagedog +11

      I feel like Star Trek has done this a few times… it happened with Data, right?

      Video games might also be a good place to look– Cortana in Halo is a prime example.

      1. jenavira +4

        It did happen with Data, definitely a prime example. I know nothing about Halo, but I will look into that, thank you!

        1. elsajeni +3

          Mass Effect could be an interesting one too, as it involves a lot of sexy aliens AND has an AI who downloads herself into a cute humanoid robot body and develops a romantic relationship with a human. It’s been a while since I played it so I’m not sure if it quite plays into the trope you’re looking at, though.

    2. Theo_Winterwood +4

      Ahhh, I know exactly what you’re talking about because that annoys me too, but I also can’t think of a good example right now. (I also admittedly don’t read a lot of android/alien-based scifi, so my knowledge is limited, but I know that’s a thing I’ve seen before.)

      That sounds like an amazing panel, though.

      1. jenavira +3

        I know! I hope other people have some good examples to talk about, because all I want to do is shout about Ex Machina for a week.

    3. chiaroscuromom +4

      Marge Piercy’s He, She and It which has a different title in the UK that I’m blanking on.

      1. jenavira +4

        That has been on my list for a long time! I’m going to have to bump it up.

      2. BessieMaeMucho +1

        It’s Body of Glass. I love her in general, but this is one of her best.

    4. annecara +6

      Pretty sure that one of Asimov’s I, Robot stories involves a robot boyfriend, but I can’t remember which one.

      1. chiaroscuromom +2

        I was going to say that too, but also lacked a specific story to point to.

      2. jenavira +3

        Wikipedia suggests “Satisfaction Guaranteed,” which is…not quite the trope I was considering, but an interesting point nonetheless. Thanks!

        1. kilks401 +3

          In the Foundation series by Asimov there is a robot girlfriend, I’m pretty sure.

    5. viviennestreet +5

      Oh my god, yes, this is a pet peeve of mine. I keep running into it in fanfiction. Fastest way to get me to nope out is to give an AI a body for sex reasons.

      You seem to be conflating sex and romance here, though. Are you planning on distinguishing between the two during the panel? I’m much more willing to entertain the possibility intellectual sort of romantic relationship between a human and an alien, robot, or AI than a sexual one.

      1. jenavira +4

        This is an important point, and yes, we’re definitely going to talk about it at the panel. I’m conflating sex and romance a little bit because popular culture does that, but also because I’m asexual and aromantic and both things bother me. But there are lots of romantic aseuxals, for sure.

        1. viviennestreet +5

          Yeah, I’m ace and probably aro, also (I certainly don’t feel the need for either in my life)!

          The Long Way to a Small, Angry Planet might fit your criteria. I liked most of the book a lot, but didn’t enjoy how the AI was handled in general, let alone the romance subplot. There’s also a human/alien relationship, but it was framed more as a aliens have alien sexual mores, human adapts than as a way to humanize the alien.

    6. freshwaterpearl +3

      There is some interesting stuff about AIs and love and (a)sexuality in Ann Leckie’s Imperial Radch trilogy, though a lot of it is subtext and it’s not exactly what you’re describing.

      1. jenavira +3

        So true! I am sure we’ll talk about that series. (Which, er, I should probably finish…)

      1. jenavira +2

        I have that article (and this one on Ex Machina and how it does/doesn’t address this issue) saved as talking points!

    9. fenixdawn +1

      Have you watched the Sarah Connor Chronicles? Sadly short-lived, but there was a lot of that with the Cameron character (a terminator played by the very lovely Summer Glau) and her relationship with the young John Connor.

      1. jenavira +1

        I did not but I know that’s a popular one for discussions of tropes – hopefully someone else on the panel has!

    11. kayjayoh_ +2

      Might I put forward a suggestion that WisCon-Toasties might draw a little piece of toast on their badges, that we might know each other in the crowds. 🙂

      1. jenavira +2

        I love it!

        BookishBroad and I are going to try to meet up at the Gathering and/or for dinner Friday, if you want to join us?

        1. kayjayoh_ +1

          During the Gathering I first must run around getting my stuff set up for the art show, and there is “Meet the Artists” at 6. But I will definitely need to eat at some point.

          I am contactable at kayjayoh at gmail.

    12. thetimekeptcity +2

      I don’t know if it’s exactly what you’re thinking of, but the Brainships books by Anne McCaffrey (et al) do some potentially interesting stuff with humans who function essentially through machines, and in several of the stories have to navigate romantic/sexual relationships in various ways.

    13. radiantsqui3d +1

      At the top of my hat, please also let me mention Bicentennial Man (which is just such a mess of a film! It’s been a while since I’ve read the Asimov story though…), and for a slightly less humanoid variation, Short Circuit’s Johnny #5 (I adore that one, but why the flirting?!)

    14. ParetoFrontier

      Oh! The Hyperion Cantos books go all in on this -including (light spoiler) a human / AI based on a romantic era poet romance.

    15. Crustacean +1

      Captain America Civil War sort of did that with Vision and his thing for the third Olsen.

      And Blade Runner obviously, but maybe it’s subverted because it’s so forced and unsettling?

  55. typewriterandgramophone +3

    Another entry in the Packard Financial Saga, which I am placing in a reply.

    1. typewriterandgramophone +4

      The good news is that the whole co-signing a loan thing will not be necessary! And I cannot say sufficiently how grateful and touched I was for/by people’s responses a couple of weeks ago.

      The :/ news:

      My parents are planning on moving down to the house my brother built that they had to buy to save it from getting the construction loan foreclosed on, and the plan is for me to check in on their house here on weekends. This is fine (I’m not sure how I will be getting from the train to the house as I am carless) but…then we were all, like, it’s a pity Siddons couldn’t move back to the house full time and pay rent to her parents, and…I am financially and physically wiped out from the move I am finishing up now, and I signed a lease, and I am moving in with very decent people and a decent landlord who have been so good about the whole thing, and…I’d have loved being alone in my childhood home and fixing up the garden and spreading out craft projects in the living room and not being in anyone else’s way and nobody being in my way; it would have been the answer to an introverted maiden’s prayer, and I know the rent money would have come in very handy to my parents, but if that was what they wanted why didn’t they say something before I signed a lease (not to mention went through all the effort/expense of househunting and moving)?

      Please, if you are inclined to it, think good thoughts about my brother getting his mojo up and selling the damn house. My mom especially does not want to move.

      1. aqueousmedium +5

        Oh I’m so glad you’re avoiding the co-signing tangle, but sorry that your parents couldn’t get their timing together so you could live in glorious witchy solitude. Good thoughts sent for your brother getting his act together!

        1. typewriterandgramophone +3

          Thanks!

          I don’t know how they’d even handle moving- I am younger than they are and getting the last couple of car loads transported is making me feel like vampires took my blood. Every way to do it requires time and either money or energy, none of which is in abundant supply just now.

  56. parlato1973 +30

    i went on vacation for a week just as my summer squashes started producing. and came home to this. anyone up for a zucchini recipe thread?

      1. cinnamonfern +5

        I make a version of this with crumbled feta cheese and fresh mint added to the mix and it’s really good!

      2. parlato1973 +2

        thanks for these reminders! i eat grain-free, but there are plenty of latke-like zucchini patties i’m going to try.

      3. lemonadefish +2

        we love zucchini fritters! I think I started with a smitten kitchen recipe, but now we mostly just improvise. also grated zucchini freezes perfectly, for use in fritters or bread / muffins if you’re into that sort of thing.

    2. viviennestreet +3

      I don’t have the recipe, but my mom makes delicious zucchini bread with her bread machine. I’ve also made muffins with zucchini.

      1. parlato1973 +1

        i like zucchini noodles salted or raw too, though i’m not opposed to cooking them with sauces or throwing in soups. but when they’re used as noodles, i agree they don’t need cooking. thanks, good ideas!

    4. montana +1

      I love them in a tomato sauce (chopped and sauteed with garlic before), served over pasta. I’ve never understood zucchini bread, btw, just seems like a way to get rid of it in cake without actually tasting it (contrary to banana bread).

      1. parlato1973 +2

        i know what you mean about breads, especially traditional ones that aren’t really benefitting from swapping out the veggie for the flour. i don’t eat grains though, so the only bread i do with zucchini is a savory veggie bread with parmesan. but it really only uses half a squash, so it doesn’t really cut into the stash.

    7. feelingofgaze +2

      I made a pretty great zucchini parmesean last summer when our neighbor gave me one that was literally as big as my arm

    8. Maryaed +2

      Grate, salt, drain, and squeeze the moisture out; then saute in butter until just soft, with salt, pepper, and grated nutmeg. My grandmother learned this from Julia Child and it’s more than the sum of its parts.

      Also, use the same stuff (not pre-cooked, but still sprinkled with nutmeg) as one layer of a lasagna. (The other layer has ricotta and optional sauteed spinach.)

  57. rolotomassi5 +6

    Have any Toast Folk seen the Comedy Bang Bang! live tour yet so far? I’m seeing them in Seattle tomorrow and I’m wondering how exhausted they are because they have been going for a few weeks now. Been listening to the tour on Howl.fm and they all seem to be going slowly insane, especially PFT. It has solidly cemented my opinion that Lauren Lapkus is a comedy genius.

    WE’RE SNAPCHATTING!

    2. tabwootwo +2

      Saw them last night in Oakland. PFT might actually strangle someone by the end of the show, but it was wonderfully funny. Lapkus went on a couple of joke runs that were absolutely incredible as Todd.

  58. thebellewitch +6

    If you were going to buy a nice-quality and somewhat decorative quilt for your bed, where would you start shopping? I am hopeless at finding cute home goods that won’t fall apart in the wash.

    1. beyoncepadthai1 +3

      zara home always has cute ones, I haven’t bought one so much as stroked them in the store so I can’t really attest to their quality

    2. CleverManka +4

      Do you live in the US? I haven’t purchased bedding anywhere except Tuesday Morning in over a decade. They’re not always the most exciting design-wise, but their prices can’t be beat for high quality linens. I bought a set of queen-size woven paisley jaquard cotton sheets (I can’t describe how gorgeous) that were, like, $250 for $49. More recently, a bamboo rayon sheet set for $39 and 400 count Egyptian cotton set for $29.

      1. thebellewitch +2

        I do! I had not thought of Tuesday Morning – I usually get sheets from Ross but ours has sad comforter options. Thanks!

    3. PonyAlong +4

      Hmmmm…I’d start shopping on….wait for it….FB. Search out sites that cater to quilting and/or weaving groups in your area and go from there. For example, the West Kootenay, BC region has The Selkirk Weaving Guild (?…can’t remember the exact title, but close enough) and it’s all women members make the most beautiful textiles.

      In buying, high quality, locally made artisan products, you will pay $$$ but so worth it!

      1. thebellewitch +1

        This is a good idea, too. My mom’s a quilter, so my long con is to get her to make something for me, but as you sound like you know, that’s a huge ask.

    4. typewriterandgramophone +5

      The Company Store is expensive full-price but has good sales and coupons.

      And the quilts are so pretty!

    5. wallsdonotfall +3

      Haptic Lab has city, coastline, and constellation quilts I’ve been longing after for years. They just released pre-orders for a Dymaxion map of the earth (!!!) that is fully bed-sized. They also have kits, if you’re into that, and occasional sales if you sign up for their newsletter.

  59. sarahsaysssoo +8

    I had my first edited writing class of the summer semester. It’s called Sentencing and the Death Penalty and I’m really excited about it but also nervous. Basically I have 2 days to come up with my topic and then 30 days to write a Law Review style 30 page paper exploring something new about capital punishment and/or sentencing.
    everything seems to have been written already too so rn i’m stuck on topic ideas

    1. katenepveu +7

      Lawyer here!

      Does your prof really want you to come up with something entirely new? Because that’s an extremely well-studied area.

      I would suggest talking to them, but getting an idea first of what angle you’d like to attack. What interests you? Juries, judges, medical ethics, actual innocence, cruelty of delays, effectivness . . . ? Get a couple areas that pique your interest and then talk to your instructor to get a sense of what’s manageable on such short notice.

      Good luck!

    1. kayjayoh_ +9

      I feel conflicted about this.

      A few years ago, there was a push to get a black actor (like Paterson Joseph) to be the next Doctor. And that had a wee bit of momentum for a while… only to be run over by a wave of “LET’S CAST ONE OF THESE WHITE LADIES AS THE DOCTOR!” (And yes, it was a call for women, but almost all the suggestions I saw were white women.)

      More recently, there has been a campaign for Idris Elba to be the next Bond. And I am *here* for that. So to have an American white woman held up as an exciting alternative new Bond gives me a little bit of pause.

      I have nothing bad to say about her as an actress. I just dislike what seems to be a trend.

      1. smiavs +5

        I feel conflicted for the same reasons and also because the misogyny is so rampant in Bond films that I can’t imagine a woman in the role….

  61. diaryofamadeditor +20

    I’m taking a mental health day, Toasties. I had this deep existential dread about leaving the house today & once the thought crossed my mind that I could just take a sick day, I felt such a flood of relief. Debating writing some emails, reading a little, fixing a few things around the house, making soup, but mostly just staying in bed.

    Self-care thread? What are your favorite home things to do when you’re running on empty?

      1. diaryofamadeditor +5

        Ooh! I did a face mask when I was trying to relax my way into leaving the house. It’s my favorite thing.

    2. theneedleandthe +7

      Taking a hot shower with all the lights off but candles lit, weed edibles, playing with the cat, making myself an elaborate lunch! I also sometimes take a long walk to the garden store and buy myself a new plant buddy, haha.

      1. bundtpan +11

        He hears that a lot, his ego has increased exponentially over the three years I’ve had him.

        I think he’s a lab mix with some greyhound, shepard, and generic hound (so much sniffing all of the time) as he’s very tall and skinny and fast and CUTE.

    3. gripyfish +11

      What a difficult life, to be a dog! I hope he does the huffy sigh-thing at regular intervals; it is one of my favorite dog behaviors.

      1. misterboddy +6

        I love the long huffy sighs! I tease my older dog about this frequently; her sighs make it sound like she has such a terrible life. Napping on her huge bed, eating treats. You know.

    4. whollyword +2

      Hello, ennui-ful doggie. I’ll bet you have very soft ears. *offers scritches*

  63. samburgers +11

    READERS! Got any recommendations for fantasy or scifi books by women authors? Or queer authors?

    My wife got me a Kindle for my birthday and I’m reading WAY MORE as a result. I think bc the Kindle makes reading as easy as watching TV? I hate to think I’ve been watching TV because I’m too lazy to find a book/go to the library BUT IT’S TRUE.

    2. Thujaplicata +3

      I haven’t read the whole series, but I really liked God’s War by Kameron Hurley.

        1. Thujaplicata +2

          I need to move the other two books up my “to read” pile then! I own them, I just haven’t quite gotten to them yet.

          1. si1verdrake +1

            They’re really good! I also recommend The Mirror Empire, but with the note that it’s way more complex worldbuilding, and I really needed to be in a “super-meaty, detailed fantasy epic” headspace for it. I actually restarted it after getting a third of the way through, and it went way better when I had some familiarity with the world. I still need to read the second one, which I’ve put off for much the same reason.

          2. Thujaplicata +1

            I actually bought The Mirror Empire when it came out because I really like Kameron Hurley and her blogging, but I haven’t started reading it yet because I really have to be in the right mindset for grimdark sort of things. Also I have so many books in my to-read pile. It’s a little ridiculous.

    3. bread_and_roses +15

      Anything by N.K. Jemisin, but especially The Fifth Season.

      Lois McMaster Bujold’s Vorkosigan and Chalion series.

      The Scorpion Rules by Erin Bow (YA dystopian, not quite your categories).

    4. chiaroscuromom +9

      Everything by Elizabeth Moon, but especially The Deed of Paksennarion / Sheepfarmer’s Daughter

      Who Fears Death by Nnedi Okorafor

      My Real Children by Jo Walton, or Among Others

    5. walteredwardgo +2

      YA ‘superhero’ book The Posterchildren by Kitty Burroughs. I don’t think it’s on kindle but you can get it on gumroad and convert the files I guess? Definitely worth the tiny extra hassle

    7. Antonius_Block +10

      Seconding the N.K. Jemisin recommendation.

      I recently fell in love with the Steerswoman series by Rosemary Kirstein. Per the blurb at the linked page, “If you ask, she must answer. A steerswoman’s knowledge is shared with any who request it; no steerswoman may refuse a question, and no steerswoman may answer with anything but the truth. And if she asks, you must answer. It is the other side of tradition’s contract – and if you refuse the question, or lie, no steerswoman will ever again answer even your most casual question.”

      So the steerswomen are collectors and sharers of knowledge – sociologists, anthropologists, librarians, teachers, and devotees of the scientific method all rolled into one. The series follows this steerswoman named Rowan as she travels around, doing her badass adventuring knowledge-seeking thing, mostly with her traveling companion Bel. There’s a great central mystery that drives the plot, twists and turns that literally made me gasp, and it all centers on this really awesome pair of competent, fearless women.

        1. VioletandIrises +2

          This sounds like everything I need in my life right now. I have several library books at home to get around to first (The 2nd and 3rd in the Thousand Kingdoms series, The Sellout and The Serpent of Venice), but this is definitely #5 on the list.

    9. si1verdrake +5

      My absolute favorite book series (right now, anyway) is the Memoirs of Lady Trent novels, about a badass pseudo-Victorian lady naturalist who studies dragons. The first book is A Natural History of Dragons, and they’re by Marie Brennan.

      I also just read a couple of Ursula Vernon books, so if you’ve wanted a retelling of the Snow Queen tale with more practicality and also lesbians, or a book of awesome short stories that also trend towards fairy tale retellings with an eye towards making the heroines both more sympathetic and having more agency, check out The Raven and The Reindeer and Toad Words and Other Stories.

      1. cait0716 +1

        I haven’t read Memoirs of Lady Trent, but I thoroughly enjoyed Brennan’s Onyx Court series, about fairies in London from Queen Elizabeth to Queen Victoria

      2. ballisticjaguar +1

        aaaaaahhh. Yes. Seconding the recommendation for Memoirs of Lady Trent. I am currently reading the fourth and they are very good. One of those times where buying the book because the cover was soooo pretty turned out to be a great choice.

      3. si1verdrake +3

        Oh, I just remembered re: Ursula Vernon- Those books are actually published under T. Kingfisher, because she also publishes books for young kids under her real name, and apparently started the penname after an 8-year-old’s mother was going to buy a very-much-not-for-8-year-olds book because of the same author.

    10. aqueousmedium +8

      The Goblin Emperor by Katherine Addison. She also writes as Sarah Monette; both outputs excellent.

    11. randomuser1965 +1

      The Crucible trilogy by Sara Douglass. “Historical fiction” in that it’s set in the real-world medieval period, but written as people then believed the world to be, e.g., angels and demons are real. Book 1 is The Nameless Day: http://www.amazon.com/Nameless-Day-Crucible-Book/…

    12. exitpursuedbyaclaire +3

      Alif the Unseen, by G. Willow Wilson, is fantasy set in an analogue of the Arab Spring (eerily written before the Arab Spring actually happened), with tons of interesting things to say about magic, belief, and theology, if that’s your cup of tea. Sofia Samatar’s “A Stranger in Orolandria” has extremely lush, rich writing. Nicola Griffith’s “Hild” is another. Alif the Unseen is my favorite of those three by far, but I like the other two, and a lot of people love them.

    13. Es_Petal +2

      My reading quantity rocketed once I got my kindle.

      Someone on here recommended the Midnight Land (there are the first two of a trilogy out at the minute) by E P Clark who is a laydee and it’s fab.

      1. YourEyesTheSea +1

        “My reading quantity rocketed once I got my kindle”

        In a positive way? I’m still unsure about going e-reader, because I’ve heard that books don’t really sink in to the reader’s memory in the way that they do with dead-tree books (something to do with the distinct presence and tactility of different physical books?); and as I get older I’m having more difficulty with that already, thank you very much.
        Oh, and there’s of course my nostalgia for the voluminous and impractical collection of books I have acquired over the years.

        1. Es_Petal +1

          I haven’t actively noticed that new books haven’t sunk in, certainly. I’ve had my kindles (I filled up one and have almost filled the second) for a few years now.

          It is easier to think ‘nah, this isn’t grabbing me’ a few pages in and look for something else, because they’re all there at your fingertips and it doesn’t involve actually going and finding something else to read, so possibly I haven’t persevered through tedious starts as much as I might have with a tree-book, but TBH I don’t see that as a negative, life’s too short to headbutt through books I am not enjoying. Also there are so many free books available on amazon etc that I tend to get them if they’re free and sound vaguely interesting, and of course that is very hit and miss, so possibly I’m just starting more rubbish than I would if I were paying £8 for the privilege.

    14. literarysara +7

      I really loved Uprooted by Naomi Novik, and I second the below recommendation for (anything by) Nnedi Okorafor.

      In fact, I just bought a new book by Nnedi Okorafor because it and a book by Victor Lavalle recommended in the reading thread and a book by Daniel Jose Older were all $2.99 for Kindle today. I wasn’t especially looking for fantasy fiction to spend my birthday gift card on, but that’s $10 off the paperback price!

    15. exitpursuedbyaclaire +2

      I forgot a wonderful one! The Wind City, by Summer Wigmore. Set in Wellington, NZ with Maori mythology. Especially wonderful if you are a nerdy millennial, and it’s chock full of queer romance.

    16. Notreallydorine +1

      Thirding N. K. Jemisin and adding a recommendation for the Shades of Magic series by V. E. Schwab.

    17. depizan +1

      Martha Wells’ Wheel of the Infinite and the Raksura series. Kate Locke’s God Save the Queen series. Emma Bull’s Territory. Both of Seanan McGuire’s urban fantasy series, October Daye or InCryptid, or a stand alone called Sparrow Hill Road (a little more on the horror side). Patricia Briggs’ Raven series (her urban fantasy series are also quite good, but I always kind of preferred her high fantasies and wish she’d write more of those). And middle grade may not be what you’re looking for, Catherynne Valente’s Fairyland series is absolutely gorgeously written and charming and dark and whimsical and heartbreaking.

    18. YourEyesTheSea +3

      I love that the toasty hive-mind takes it for granted that you already know and love the work of Ursula K. Le Guin, so a recommendation would be superfluous.

  64. Jungle_Red +19

    Really interesting Harvard Biz Review article about why women are underrepresented in leadership around the world:

    Why Do So Many Incompetent Men Become Leaders? https://hbr.org/2013/08/why-do-so-many-incompeten…

    “The truth of the matter is that pretty much anywhere in the world men tend to think that they that are much smarter than women. Yet arrogance and overconfidence are inversely related to leadership talent…”

  65. SemperLegens +3

    OK Toasties – I need help planning a trip to Spain. I am going with my wife and in-laws for two weeks at the end of July. The first week will be 1 day in Barcelona, 3 days in Madrid, 2 days in Bilbao. Then we are driving/walking the Camino Ignaciano (Loyola-Manresa), then 1 more day in Barcelona.

    I think we’ll be taking the train between Barcelona-Madrid-Bilbao, as it seems most efficient and cost-effective.

    I have a vague idea of the standard stuff (the Prado, the Guggenheim, the Sagrada Familia) but I’m having a hard time finding more than churches and museums. I love weird little museums about odd things, and factory tours, and historical things.

    So – suggestions on getting best train rates (my in-laws are both over 65, so maybe there’s a pensioner discount?)? Hotels/airbnbs/B&Bs? Places to visit? Places to EAT?

    Also, if anyToastie has done a pilgrimage/camino (especially the Camino Ignaciano or Compostela, but really, any kind), I would love to hear about your experience/suggestions/cautions.

    1. Scared_Vagina +3

      I am only here to say that if you can make it to San Sebastian while you are in the Bilbao area you SHOULD because it is beautiful and lovely and the food is great. If you eat meat, I went to a great restaurant called Pork in Barcelona where it’s just like, various pork products with delicious Spanish peasant-food-type sides like beans and bread and nice local beer.

    2. BestLaidPlans +2

      We just did the Camino de Ronda in March and stayed in Barcelona on either end of the trip. It was amazing and wonderful and gorgeous and I want to be back there right now. We had a guidebook for the walk and a company transported our luggage from location to location, which was awesome and made the hiking much more enjoyable. You cannot overestimate the amount of time you will wait in line for the Sagrada Familia…we never did get in but wandered around outside. There were plenty of other Gaudi locations to tour that were much easier to get into. I wish we’d gone to the park but didn’t have time.

    4. melimanias +1

      I did an art history trip to Madrid & Barcelona in college and it was amazing, but that means my recommendations skew museums. However for consideration:
      Debod Temple – An actual Egyptian Temple in Madrid that was saved from the Aswan Dam construction.
      The Dali Museum – In Figueres, a couple hours outside of Barcelona so might not fit in your time table but totally fits the bill of weird little museums (Eggs on the turrets! Flying bread on the walls!). We also stopped at a winery on the way back to Barcelona – possibly this one
      Flamenco – Highly recommend going to a Flamenco show! This venue was so cool (as a pretty short person I do think it’s worth it to get seats closer to the front).
      The Reina Sofia – a really cool modern art museum that houses Guernica. It’s worth it just to see that gallery. It also happens to be right across the street from Madrid’s Atocha Railway Station which is beautiful and has a great tropical style garden inside.
      The Thyssen Bornemisza – The Prado is the place for your old world masters (holy wow it was amazing!), the Thyssen is great for art education. You move through art history in chronological fashion and I gained such a better understand of how art has progressed and changed from the 1200s to the present. You could probably do both in a day depending on your stamina, but if you feel the need to choose, my 2 cents is the Prado is for the more advanced art lover and the Thyssen is for the person that likes art but doesn’t know a ton about art history. That being said they are both great museums and you can’t go wrong.

    5. brujaja +1

      How exciting! I adore Barcelona and think Madrid is just dandy, taking the train sounds like a good option for your group. I walked the Camino Frances, SJPP to Santiago and then on to Finnisterre, in June-July 2014. I know a couple of pilgrim friends who’ve walked the Ignaciano. They had a wonderful albeit very quiet time.

      From the timeline you’ve proposed, I imagine you’ll be driving most of the way? I don’t know what to suggest if that is the case. Our experiences will be different and that’s great! I’ve been around enough pilgrims who think the way they’ve chosen to complete their pilgrimage is the only way to be a “true pilgrim” which seems utterly preposterous to me.

      My pilgrimage experience was really rooted in the contemplation and fellowship born from walking every day for a month with others I didn’t know at the beginning and was inseparable from by the end. I was humbled by how physically pained I was a certain points, and how one step at a time, the fellowship of near strangers kept me moving forward. One morning I woke up thinking I couldn’t bear to get out of bed and actually stand up. I bargained with myself that if I still felt so bad by the first town we’d reach that day that I could stop there for a rest day. 3km in and I was walking slowly but with a smile and laughter. That is one of my very best memories.

      If you’re in Navarra, def try to get some cuajada! It’s a delicious sheep milk product which is kinda like fresh yogurt. So, so tasty!!

      Buen Camino!

    6. Crustacean

      In Barcelona, try the Hospital de Saint Pau. It’s an unbelievably beautiful hospital/sanatorium thing that’s now a heritage sight. The architecture’s amazing and there are orange trees everywhere.

  66. Social +10

    Toastie Slack is already well-updated on my life but I just wanted to vent about apartment hunting. First, although I am very grateful for my little hovel, in reality, it’s a terrible place. The stove has leaked twice and management didn’t replace it. One time an electrical socket caught fire, which was scary as hell and spurred everyone in my life to urge me to move.

    My budget has gone up a little since I moved there, but apparently not enough to get me where I want to be. I have a friend with a similar budget who wants to move soon too but they are really picky about certain things so I’m not sure we will work as roommates. (Sample email: [I send a pic of a place with hard wood floors in a great location where it is hard to find places in our budget.] Friend replies: “That place looks like it has too many units. It’s too big for me.” I am just… not wired the same way that way. I really enjoy basic things like having a roof over my head… maybe a nice window if I’m feeling extravagant.)

    I can take a one-bedroom or studio again if I have to but I really don’t want to. I like having people around.

    1. _bartleby +6

      Have you and your friend talked openly about each of your must-haves, and how intensely you care about them? They might just be giving an opinion because you asked for one but in reality don’t care very much, whereas it sounds like you care a great deal about maintenance and renovation (as do I!).

  67. jonesy +10

    Toasties! I have come to a Decision on the MFA Thing, and if I may, I would like to share the Decision and resulting Plan here.

    Step 1 (3 yrs duration): Pay off car, kick major ass at current project management job, climb corporate ladder. If finances allow, pursue writing retreat(s); if not, just…read and write like a mofo. Cultivate relationships within company. Take GRE. Casually strike up email conversations with old writing professors from undergrad.

    Step 2 (however long it takes): Sell DreamCondo for tidy sum, use profit to acquire DreamTownhouse in same area with no rental restrictions. Use awesome realtor and lender from purchase of DreamCondo to ensure this all goes awesomely. Note to realtor and lender: do not retire and/or die pls.

    Step 3 (as soon as I am settled in DreamTownhouse): Get involved in volunteer teaching opportunities. STEM mentoring, for example.

    Step 4 (when finances and/or stars align): The Great Preparation. Draft statements of purpose, teaching essays. Polish writing samples until they gleam and/or scare me a little bit. Apply to fully-funded MFA programs in my region (plus a couple that are not, plus one 30 minutes away from my parents’ house), light a candle, hold my breath for months.

    Step 5 (if I get in): Hooray! Find tenant(s) for DreamTownhouse. Relocate for MFA. If it is within a few hours’ drive, make sure to come back every so often for informative “catch up” lunches with company figures. If not, make time to visit friends in town, and arrange same. Complete MFA, apply to return to company.

    Step 5 (if I don’t get in): Balls. Consider re-applying, but resolve to not be too disappointed, as I still have my very nice job and my writing is really only bound to improve as I get older.

    I’m much happier having a Plan.

    1. _bartleby +5

      Those sound like good plans. I’d definitely encourage you to think about your long-term earning potential. It’s much harder to get a job back than it is to leave it, and much harder to get a corporate role with an MFA than it is to write like a mofo from your corporate day job. Rental income is good to consider, but there are lots of costs to incorporate into your financial projections: vacancy rate, insurance, management, broker fees, damage, renovations, taxes/HOA, etc.

      For what it’s worth, I am doing plan 1. Paid off my student loans and saving like a mofo from my corporate day job, writing and making art like a maniac on the side. It took me a year and change to really settle into the job and get some energy back for outside-of-work projects, but I am so glad I did instead of take a minimum wage entry-level role in the arts or go back to school. For me, the security of a day job and steady paycheck helps me be creative without pressure to earn. That is crucial to my sanity.

      Plus, if I play my cards right, I can save enough to live off of by the time I’m about 35, and focus on whatever the heck I want to thereafter. (see http://reddit.com/r/financialindependence for more).

  68. sfbeee +7

    has anyone used those korean snail face masks and have a recommendation? my sister’s bachelorette is this weekend and i was thinking it would be a fun / silly treat to take along.

    1. bird_internet +5

      I have not but ever since I first heard of them I have the burning desire to know how they get the snail slime. Are there snail farms? Does someone have a job where they are like, squeegeeing the slime off of the snails all day?

    2. SemperLegens +1

      Yes!!! They are amazing. Try these: http://www.amazon.com/BENTON-content-Korean-cosme…

      If you have Amazon Prime you should be able to get them for the weekend.
      These are also great and on Prime: http://www.amazon.com/TONYMOLY-Real-Mask-Sheet-Pa…

      I haven’t used these but they look fun too: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00VZUAOJQ http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00D3CWW3K

  69. kaylar_beastie +15

    This weekend a built a garden shelf out of cinderblocks and wood boards and spray painted it pink and peach and now my porch area looks really cheerful. I also planted my herbs and peppers and tomato so I’m good to go! What are you guys growing?

    Also tomorrow I have a hair consultation and I’m about to cut off like six inches and dye it oil slick and I’m super excited. I work a bunch of jobs so dropping cash on my hair is my reward.

    Also I bought an airbrush machine for cake decorating and I’m super excited to use it.

  70. amoderngirl +9

    Does anyone know where I can find seventies-style halter tops (vintage or just vintage-inspired)? This week I got a very sexy tattoo on my shoulder blade from an awesome queer artist, and I want to show it off all summer. Plus, my summer aesthetic is seventies babe a la Dazed & Confused/Almost Famous/The Runaways.

    1. sausagedog +6

      You should probably get a halter neck bodysuit.
      This is also striking me as very 70s

    2. theneedleandthe +3

      I have zero idea how to do links here, but this top from Zara might do you! It’s not a halter but it is very seventies babe. http://www.zara.com/us/en/trf/tops/off-the-should…

  72. Household_Opera +14

    Toasts! I’ve made all the reservations for a vacation in the English Lake District later this summer, and I’m very proud of myself for a) figuring out all the moving parts and b) allowing myself to go on a real vacation for the first time in years.

    Also, while researching where to go for hikes while I’m there, I fell down a bit of a Wikipedia rabbit hole and learned about an early Romantic-era artist named Charles Gough, who’s most famous for having died by falling off Helvellyn. Everything about the Wikipedia entry about him is fascinatingly bizarre. Especially the part about how his dog was found with his remains, months later, and apparently she kept guard over his body but also possibly ate him. (The lesson I’m taking from all of this is that I should probably not attempt the Helvellyn Striding Edge without a guide.)

    2. Katiezog +4

      Have so much fun! The lake district is amazingly beautiful a bucolic. Hopefully you will have time to wander and look at sheep.

    3. chai_party +2

      Oh, that puts me in mind of The Plague Dogs by Richard Adams (who wrote Watership Down)! It was quite an interesting book (at least when I was in high school) and significantly more sobering than Watership Down (not that that’s exactly light-hearted). It’s about these two dogs that escape from a laboratory and the whole thing becomes embroiled in a political scandal. What made it quite fun to read was that I read it whilst in England right before we went to the Lake District. The story you mentioned, about Gough and his dog, make an appearance if I remember.

    4. YourEyesTheSea +4

      Enjoy! One thing to watch out for that the guide books probably won’t mention: if you see a bunch of sheep in the fields – or even better, out on the open fells – moving in one direction, stay to watch: the sight of a farmer and their dog(s) marshalling sheep is fascinating and wonderful to observe. The dogs are generally border collies, and are superbly skilled at working as part of a team to get a bunch of semi-feral sheep moving to where they’re needed.

      1. Household_Opera +2

        Oh yes, sheep dogs are amazing — I’ve been following this shepherd on Twitter for a while now. And I’ve gotten to watch some border collies in action at fiber festivals. Scary smart!

  73. Heathered +4

    Going in for a treadmill test this afternoon, so it’s nice to know I can keep an eyeball here and not overthink it. My theory of all medical tests is the surest way to find something is to go looking for it, so I’m trying to summon my optimism before this nice Feel the Burn sesh and just treat it like a weird, helicopter-trainer type gym.

  74. parlato1973 +3

    anyone got a good line on asymmetric tees & tunics? i’ve been looking for some after realizing one of my favorites may be in decline, but not a lot comes up when i search on them. are there other fashion terms i’m overlooking? got any faves or seen any nice ones recently?

    1. smiavs +1

      I can’t recommend them personally as I can’t really afford them, but I’ve long coveted the tops over at soul-flower.com. Most of what they have on offer is sustainable and/or organic, but that pushes the price out of my budget, unfortunately, but I like that 1.) they do the organic/sustainable thing, 2.) they offer a lot of longer tops, 3.) their models are of varying sizes and body types.

      1. parlato1973 +1

        those look very comfy! they are like, level 1 of asymmetry that i’m looking for. i’m also into tiered panels and draped crossovers and weird gathers and stuff, but it’s not an easy thing to get search results on. thanks for this link!

    2. EffectiveNancy +1

      Have you considered Stitchfix? They will send you five asymmetric tops in your try-on kit if you ask for them. I am not a clotheshorse, but I did like the concept and would recommend if it fits your budget.

      1. parlato1973 +1

        you know, i hadn’t considered it, but also hadn’t looked at the site, so thanks for the push–it’s a better deal than i’d thought. the thing is, i do like shopping around and trying stuff out, and i get all picky about things, so i wonder if i’d end up paying stylist fees rather than applying them to purchases. either way, though, great option, thanks!

  75. DoubtfulGuest +6

    Does anybody know stuff about retinas? Background: I saw an ophthalmologist a couple of years ago because I was having flashing lights in the corners of my vision. He said I had retinal changes that could be a risk factor for detachment down the line, so to call if I ever had new symptoms.

    So today, I woke up with new symptoms in one eye (flashes much more frequent and going all the way around the outside of my vision, along with what looks like a starburst of clear goo toward the right side of my vision every time I move my eye — from the inside; eye looks normal from the outside). I called the ophthalmologist’s office, and they said I need to come in today and scheduled an appointment for three hours from now. And now I’m sitting here wondering how worried I need to be for the next three hours.

    1. awfulvelocipedestrienne +6

      If they didn’t tell you to go to the ER, then I would not be too worried. And, for what it’s worth, my dad had a detached retina about a decade ago, they did surgery, and he’s fine now.

    2. spectra37 +5

      I too was told that due to family history/whatever I was at high risk of detachment, but you did EXACTLY right in calling them and you’re on your way to the people who can help.

      1. DoubtfulGuest +8

        Good news! Turns out it was the vitreous goo separating from the retina, which sounds kind of awful, but apparently isn’t a big deal. I have to go back next week to have them look again, but they didn’t see any holes or tears. They said the visual disturbances will settle down over the next few months as my brain learns to tune them out. Also, I was rewarded for putting up with the discomfort of having my eyeballs poked and prodded by getting to look at cool scans of the inside of my eyes!

        1. spectra37 +3

          Whoa! I’m glad that it’s more minor than anyone thought at first, and that’s wild–and I think looking at cool scans of the inside of your eyes sounds awesome. 🙂

  76. theneedleandthe +8

    I might get to move closer to work, into a bigger place, with better roommates! I am so tentatively excited! Finding an apt here is a logistical nightmare, and bonus, this place is less than 1k a month.

    1. ksek +6

      I have been wondering/hoping! And if it is not to find a new online home, I really hope we get some ridiculous closure (everyone dies from tainted botox? flash forward to the future where they’re all living in the same retirement home?).

  79. keristars +9

    Help!

    Where did the Too Witches thing come from and what does it mean?

    I’m afraid I didn’t catch on when I first saw it and now I’m floundering and google is USELESS.

      1. parlato1973 +7

        while we’re on the topic of what-happened-when, i wasn’t around for whatever happened to the hairpin that started the toast or made an exodus for the toast. what was this time before on the hairpin that people refer to?

        1. viviennestreet +3

          I would also be interested in hearing about that. I apparently started reading the Toast somewhere around February 27, 2014, because I remember laughing about the smelly markers post with a friend of mine.

        2. literarysara +5

          I am not sure! I was a regular Hairpin reader who transitioned to The Toast as soon as it was announced, because the bookish posts were always among my favorites. But the official story at the time was that the Mallicole (or Nicallory?) chemistry was too strong to ignore. I didn’t have an inkling that either had previously been thinking of leaving The Hairpin for any reason other than the irresistible draw of working with one’s bosom friend. But it wasn’t too long after that the relentless march of new Hairpin editors began. Here’s some contemporaneous reporting on both changes.

        3. thebellewitch +11

          Edith left the Hairpin, basically. For awhile it looked like The Toast and the Hairpin might coexist, happily cross-pollinating, but it turned out that Edith’s voice was pretty crucial to the whole Hairpin deal, and none of the editors who followed could quite capture it.

          1. parlato1973 +2

            thanks, this puts a lot more detail into my very vague context-clue-oriented guess.

      2. keristars +1

        Thank you!!!! I knew I had seen where it originally came from, but couldn’t for the life of me remember it, and now it’s popping up everywhere I turn my head, mildly confusing.

        1. viviennestreet +2

          No problem! It came up first thing when I googled “too witches western art,” in case you ever need to find it again.

  80. robotneedslove +2

    Toasties, I’m off to Barcelona on Friday! Send me your best things in Barcelona.

    1. melimanias +2

      Someone was asking a similar question up-thread, so this is copied a bit from my original answer: I did an art history trip to Madrid & Barcelona in college and it was amazing, but that means my recommendations skew museums. However for consideration:
      The Sagrada Familia: Yes, in my opinion it is worth it and FWIW I’m not religious, it’s an amazing feat of engineering.
      Guell Park: In addition to being a cool park designed by Gaudi, it has a tiny little museum about the building of the Sagrada Familia and an amazing view of the city.
      The Dali Museum – In Figueres, a couple hours outside of Barcelona so might not fit into your trip but totally fits the bill of weird little museums (Eggs on the turrets! Flying bread on the walls!). We also stopped at a winery on the way back to Barcelona which was a little icing on the day – possibly this one
      Flamenco – Highly recommend going to a Flamenco show! This venue was so cool (as a pretty short person I do think it’s worth it to get seats closer to the front).
      Las Ramblas – Cool pedestrian boulevard with street performers and open air market. They say if you drink water from one of the drinking fountains on Las Ramblas you will return to Barcelona.

      Have fun!

  82. jj_dowe +2

    Longtime lurker looking for input: if anyone has thoughts or advice on deciding whether to pursue a masters degree in a creative field (or just generally) I would appreciate hearing them. I’m not even sure where to start researching besides looking at potential programs and I’m struggling with the idea of taking on debt and whether it will be ‘worth it’ or not. FWIW I have a good agency job now, but I’d like to steer my career towards a different creative speciality, and I’m not good at the old “teach yourself” approach.

    1. urspostrophe +6

      IMO, a master’s degree is often not [financially] worth it unless you are in a technical field where you need very specific credentials. For something like graphic design, I think it makes sense; in other creative areas, not so much? I have a master’s in creative writing/publishing, which I naively thought would get me a foothold in the editing and publishing industry. It did not. Well, the connections I made in school made a difference, but the actual piece of paper doesn’t mean much.

      There are other options, though–maybe you could take one-off classes or get a certificate in the specialty you’re going for? I don’t want to turn anyone off grad studies if that’s what you really want to do–but if you’re ambivalent, and especially if you’re worried about debt, I’d say it’s not worth it.

      1. jj_dowe +2

        Thinking about it as getting a specific set of credentials actually gives me a good place to start researching. I’m wanting to go from visual design towards animation/illustration – both fields seem to have a certain percentage of people who think as long as your portfolio/reel is good the degree doesn’t matter – which I think is true to a point, but I personally am a big believer in foundation skills/structured learning. Thanks for your reply!

  83. culture24rosie +4

    Toasties working in the cultural heritage field – if you’d like to have a go at public speaking for a friendly supportive conference, the Museums Computer Group have an open call for papers at the moment. You don’t need to be a digital expert, but if you’ve got a story to tell about something you’ve tried / are doing successfully online, take a look – it’d be great to get some new voices pitching ideas for talks!

    The conference takes place in London this October, and some bursaries are available to help cover costs. The deadline to apply is 31 May:
    http://museumscomputergroup.org.uk/2016/05/04/mcg…

    1. drylime +3

      Thanks for posting, freesiabees! Forwarding this to my digital-heritage-obsessed spouse and other folks. We work in London, and it looks like a neat event! Abstracts would be in just under the wire, as is tradition…

      1. culture24rosie +2

        Fantastic! Yes, it’s a great event – and even if you don’t want to pitch to be a speaker, if you’d like to come along it’s free to become a member of the MCG, and then you get a discount off your ticket. Hope to see you / your spouse / any other Toasties there!

  84. swordsnspindles +24

    Nobody will ever read this, but I just bought a petticoat skirt for my 50’s-ish polka dot dress to complete a wedding outfit and kind of don’t want to change back into my normal clothes now? I recommend everybody to own a petticoat, you’re missing out. It swishes when you walk.

    1. Petticoats +6

      I am your woman. I don’t own a tulle/netting crinoline, because my historical period predates that stuff. Also I made my own and don’t know how to sew tulle.

      My corded petticoat (for width before hoop skirts were invented) was easy, my ruffley, moar-volume petticoat was easy, the drawers underneath were easy! The damn hardest part has been the butt improver, which is basically exactly what it sounds like, like stuffing a pillow down your tights if only they had control top tights in 1850. If I were doing 1760s stuff, I could have made a bum roll out of a pool noodle! (Bum rolls, despite the name, go all the way around your hips. Butt improvers are just pillows that sit on top of your butt and fluff out the skirts behind you.)

      Sometimes I put all my petticoats on, but not the dress they’re supposed to go under, and just wander around the house in them. Because they’re supposed to go under a floor-length dress, the cats can’t go under them, and because they’re super wide (see: corded petticoat) the cats can’t go around them when we are in the hallway.

      Historical underclothing: great opportunity to be mean to cats.

  85. Born_Secular +3

    Are we freaking out about this Buzzfeed article? Because I’m kind of freaking out about it. I have the heart of an 80 year old in a 30 year old body and I’m all kinds of “nope” about this future of money.

    1. keristars +2

      I partly did, then thanked heavens for the paranoid rapture-ready christians because that means we’re unlikely to do away with cash in the US any time soon, and that soothes my privacy-liking self. (I prefer the privacy of using cash but i’m awful at remembering to have enough or not spend it all, so I use my debit card anyway. I feel like such a hypocrite! But at least I have the option?)

  86. OiSunshine +3

    Check out this ad link I had on another Toast page for “Mills & Boon manga”, or in other words “Harlequin romance comics from Japan.” I just couldn’t not share it.