Today I Learned About The Anti-Vaccinating Dog Movement -The Toast

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yellerIt’s people who are against vaccinating dogs, I should specify, not dogs who are against vaccinations.

Dog anti-vaxxers, I have learned, hate two things: vaccinations, and taxes.

“If someone goes up to the kennels and I am not with them, the dogs will bark. I will try and get some videos of the dogs on alert, when I get through with my taxes.”

Things started off relatively simple:

“An Alsatian at 1 1/2 or 2 yrs old will not need to go to a vet until about 10 yrs old. There will be no medical bills unless created by the humans in his/her life that includes any accidents because a human wasn’t paying attention. You may decide to take your dog in for health check ups of course.”

Then, by the FAQ, things slide in a pear-shapewardly direction.

Screen Shot 2015-07-09 at 10.22.35 PM

Rabies is a very CONTROVERSIAL subject to me and to a lot of other dog owners who do not TRUST the government and the RULES put in place to keep the sheeple in line. Rabies is a very good way to LOG and keep FILES on all dog owners. Makes it easy to do a lot of different things:

1. Break and enter into a private citizens home for a variety of reasons deemed necessary by the legal authorities.
2. Taxes
3. Fines
4. Information

I have never seen a list get so vague so quickly!

“Rabies outbreaks or dogs that are rabid, are suppose to be on file with each state’s HEALTH and SAFETY dept. Anyone can call them and ask, “when was the last time a dog was proven to be rabid in this state?” Try it for your homework assignment.. Let me know what they say to you…let me give you a clue as to what they will say “We have a five year system and can only go back five years on records” then you say, “Well, okay then, how many canines were reported having rabies within this state in the last five years?” They will tell you NONE. If you do this every year for the next twenty years, you will still get the same answer.”

Will one of you do me a small favor? Will you call your state’s health and safety department and ask about the rabies history of dogs, and then follow up every year for the next twenty years, and let me know if that is true?

(There is also an entire section explaining that dogs are not capable of love, which is, I mean, probably true, but seems like an odd point to want to hammer home if your job is selling dogs to people.)

Now I suppose you want me to explain why an animal holds no love? They are incapable of it. Why? Because they do not have emotions as we do. They run off instincts; behavioral instincts and genetic instincts that are passed down from the beginning of that particular species existence.

Okay, so you are now going to give me examples of your dog’s love… please send me an e-mail explaining why you believe that your dog has the emotion ‘love’ within its genetic make up…

1. Because your dog is happy to see you when you come home. He wags his tail and goes nuts over you; this is your reason as to why you believe a dog holds love.

Now, let’s take your dog out of its years spent in only this environment and lets also take you out of the dog’s life and let’s pretend that your dog never knew any humans; only its pack members.

Your dog reacts this same exact way to other members of the pack, running to greet another dog that will let (your dog) jump up on it and lick it and squirm and pee on the floor or whatever your dog does to you.

Now let’s make this scene realistic…Dogs do not allow other dogs to jump on them and carry on like that. No, they do not. I am in the dog scene every day and though some pack members may tolerate greetings in many different ways from the different dogs in the pack, if any dog gets out of control, jumping and licking and carrying on, the top dog will attack it. ALL DOGS REACT THIS WAY. There is a reason for it and it is not love.

Anyhow, today I learned about something I didn’t know existed before. These arguments in the FAQ are even better than the time those guys on a bodybuilding forum couldn’t agree how many days there were in the week. I’ll see you on the other side.

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There are also horse anti-vaxxers and one of them is a friend and normally very logical and thoughtful and evidence-based in her training and I just CAN'T with her.
5 replies · active 510 weeks ago
Uh, sorry to burst your bubble, but dogs aren't capable of love ONLY if you send them to public schools. I homeschool my dearest pup, and she is capable of many human emotions - we learned weltschmerz just this week! Now would you like a glass of unpasteurized milk?
1 reply · active 510 weeks ago
They can talk about dogs never getting rabies, but I don't think the skunk that was wailing and drunkenly staggering around my backyard at 7 AM a few years ago was doing the Walk of Shame. I think I'd rather risk someone breaking into my house than expose my dog to that horror show.

(ETA: Animal Control came and shot it. RIP and sorry, Mr. Skunk.)
5 replies · active 510 weeks ago
I believe I was happier before the internet.
Um....I don't do yearly vaccinations for my insanely healthy GSD simply because he has an adult immune system and rarely comes into contact with strange dogs. But I do get a rabies vaccination to comply with US/Canada customs so we can go camping, shop, etc. without thinking about TAXES and GOVERNMENT SURVELLIENCE.

Wishing you and Nicole a super happy fun time! Hopefully another mini-horse field trip is in the works, alongside the gym workouts, of course.
Say...what does Jenny McCarthy say about this?
1 reply · active 510 weeks ago
Maybe there are no recorded cases of rabid dogs in the past 5 years because MOST PEOPLE VACCINATE THEIR DOGS, and the people who don't because GUBMINT are the type to shoot a rabid dog and bury it and not report it? You know, maybe. Because there are all of these other lovely rabies vectors called "wild animals" wandering about without vaccinations, so it's not like dogs only get rabies from other dogs.
4 replies · active 510 weeks ago
They also appear to have invented their own hip scoring system, which is exciting. Any Toasties with actual knowledge care to comment on it? http://www.schwarzdogs.com/xrays.html

I am dying to know. Please educate me!
7 replies · active 510 weeks ago
I hate to impose this on innocent readers, but there is also a contingent of pet owner who believe it's cruel to neuter dogs and that owners should ensure their unneutered dogs' well being by giving them handjobs. I'd link to the website by honestly I was so traumatized by it I don't have the heart to look at it agan.
34 replies · active 510 weeks ago
We're in a dog heavy neighborhood and often take our dog to an area where ticks dwell. You can bet we give her every vaccine we can get. Any kind of dog infection runs RAMPANT in our neighborhood (though less so since the unofficial dog park (which was basically a small scrubgrass area covered in dog poop) was fenced off for construction into an actual, not disease-pit, dog park.
2 replies · active 510 weeks ago
Someone following The Toast on Facebook saw this article and has said they're now unfollowing. :/ I can't decide if my sarcasm detector's on the blink, they're annoyed because they think Mallory's endorsing/making fun of it, or something else entirely...
4 replies · active 510 weeks ago
Man I just cannot even with articles (informed or not) about how ACTUALLY your animal doesn't experience LOVE, it's just doing [instinctual animal reaction to conditioning]. So what, who cares, it looks enough like love for all practical purposes, doesn't it, my widdle snugglepumpkins?
29 replies · active 510 weeks ago
I am in the dog scene every day

I am in the dog scene

the dog scene
12 replies · active 510 weeks ago
what is this "dog scene" of which this person speaks, and how can I get there
Oh yes, I know all about the dog (and cat) anti-vaxxers from my years as a vet tech... They tended to be the same people who would bring a dog in with a raging UTI, and when we prescribed antibiotics, they'd ask if we had anything homeopathic they could use instead. Or they'd bring in an obviously malnourished animal and say it was on a "raw diet," meaning that they fed it raw chicken breasts from the grocery store and nothing else. They'd usually refuse all medications and treatments, leaving us wondering why they'd bothered to come to the vet in the first place.
And, goddammit, the reason why rabies vaccines are required by law, even though it's extremely rare in most places in the US for domestic animals to get rabies, is because the disease can be transmitted by any mammal, is communicable to humans and has a 100% MORTALITY RATE. If you get bitten by an unvaccinated animal and there is even a small chance it had rabies, you have to be subjected to a lengthy and extremely painful treatment process... I've seen it and it is not fun.
Ugh... apparently I harbor a lot of anger about this!
5 replies · active 510 weeks ago
A friend's dogs were exposed to a rabid raccoon, which they killed . They were vaccinated, so everything is ok with the dogs. BUT, my friend and her husband now have get rabies shots for people, because they have now been exposed. Rabies is no joking matter.
The antivaxxers are scary
1 reply · active 510 weeks ago
I think my vet might be a cat anti-vaxxer. We recently took our cat in for a check up and she was like "Well, he's due for a rabies shot, but he's an indoor cat with no interest in escape, and there have been no reports of rabies in this county for years... technically I'm just legally obligated to tell you that he needs one, and you can tell me that you'll get it done somewhere else..."

We opted not to get the rabies vax, so I guess that makes ME a cat anti-vaxxer too. Also fount out that the black spot on his chin is cat acne, and the cure for cat acne is Clearasil.
14 replies · active 510 weeks ago
ETA: adding a trigger warning for discussion of animal harm.

I gotta say (from experience) there are just so so many bullies in professional dog work, and people who have terrible relationships with other humans because they are anti-authoritarian unless THEY are the authority. We used to see puppies all the time who hadn't had the most basic shots - like parvo vaccines ffs - I once watched an entire litter of puppies shit themselves to death because their breeder didn't believe in vaccines. And this was WAY before anti-vax became popular! It was just part of their culture! Dog breeders were some of the most uneducated, abusive, money-driven, nasty people I have ever had the displeasure to encounter.

Ditto about 30% of rescuers, btw. Selling animals - "rescuing" animals - it's an easy lifestyle for people who can't handle mainstream society.

#NotAllDogPeople obvs, I know good breeders and good rescuers - but there are scores of people who think just like this, and I still think about the dogs/puppies who suffered for it, and I get mad about it to this day.

/rant - and this is the SHORT version of it!!
4 replies · active 510 weeks ago
THAT BODYBUILDING FORUM.
I've been sitting here frozen in horror for a good 30 seconds, trying to muster the wherewithal to reply or at least move on with my life. Everything will now be divided into before I knew that and after I knew that.
1 reply · active 510 weeks ago
You know, I read somewhere - maybe here? - that even if you don't want vaccines, get the rabies vaccine. Because if your pet bites someone, they can legally demand a rabies test for it, and rabies tests can only be performed on animals that have died. So having the rabies vaccination certificate can save your pet's life, even if it's never been exposed.
3 replies · active 510 weeks ago
We had a bat in our house, which was briefly unsupervised in a room with my 6-week-old infant (before the cats on the job alerted the adult humans, but failed to help in any useful fashion like CATCHING THE BAT), and had to go through a whole rigamarole that involved talking to the state health authorities and the CDC (!!), because four days earlier a sleeping five-year-old had been bitten by a bat (which was acting weird and fluttering and not flying) about two miles south of us, which the parent killed with a tennis racket, and the bat was confirmed positive for rabies in post-mortem testing. Further testing of bats confirmed the virus was currently active in the local bat colony. That family had an unvaccinated pet, which had to be destroyed.

Our not-so-brave cats were both up-to-date on their shots, so it involved a 10-minute call to the vet to go over the incident and confirm they were fine, and giving their rabies tag numbers to the state authorities for verification, and we didn't even have to take them in to get looked at.

I'm not sure I could have dealt with the drama of human exposure of my BRAND NEW INFANT if we'd had to have our cats put down or quarantined at the same time!

This was in the middle of Illinois, not quite four years ago. (BTW, Illinois reports rabies exposures online back to 1990 and there have been 6 confirmed cases in dogs since then.) I have a surprising number of friends locally who've had to have a rabies series because of exposure to bats while they were sleeping.
3 replies · active 510 weeks ago
I recently started taking my dog to the dog park, and she's got all her shots. But if I ever find out that some fuckface is taking unvaccinated dogs to the dog park and exposing my dog to their viruses (which my dog may then carry home to animals with compromised immune systems), I will probably end up being arrested for assault.
1 reply · active 510 weeks ago
DOGS HAVE NO GOVERNMENT, WAKE UP SHEEPDOGGLE
1 reply · active 510 weeks ago
Frankly, I imagine most dogs are anti-vaxx, unknowledgeable little monsters.
6 replies · active 510 weeks ago
erikagillian's avatar

erikagillian · 510 weeks ago

Ask your state government how many skunks have rabies, or bats, or squirrels. Not to mention the other disease they can carry.
4 replies · active 510 weeks ago
In the UK, it's compulsory to vaccinate your dog against kennel cough if you send it to kennels (boarding). Only some kennels say that homoeopathic "vaccines", which feature something completely useless they call "nosodes", are sufficient instead. To my horror, they seem to be getting away with it. I noticed one when my mother, who tends to follow homoeopathy and similar bullshit, was looking was a kennels for her dog. I did report it, but I don't know what happened.
2 replies · active 510 weeks ago
All caps GENETICS? That looks like an acronym!
Giving
Everyone
No
Exceptions
This
Idiotic
Crackpot
Spiel

Yes, that's probably it.
Someone has surely said this already but I feel like shouting:

HUMAN RABIES IS THE MOST DEADLY INFECTIOUS DISEASE, IF YOU GET IT YOU WILL SURELY DIE, THE VACCINE IS LITERALLY THE ONLY PROTECTION WE HAVE. Rabies is so much worse than having the government hypothetically search your house, like so so so much worse! This is not a subject to play politics with!!!

Fortunately the vaccine for after you're potentially exposed to rabies is a lot less painful than it used to be. Like, I still wouldn't want to repeat the experience, but it was way better than the stories I remember from the recent past about abdominal shots.
5 replies · active 510 weeks ago
You are NOT a Doctor of Veternarian Medicine this is pure golden madness
I surely love my doggie
but my feelings are quite strong;
I'd rather become rabid
than admit that I am wrong
OBSERVITABLE QUESTIONS.

Cujo is one of Stephen King's scariest books because THAT SHIT COULD ACTUALLY HAPPEN.
2 replies · active 510 weeks ago
I thought it's been scientifically proven (via brain MRI or some such) that our dogs actually DO love us back? I read it on Tumblr, so it must be true.

Anecdotally, my dog gives me THE most passive-aggressive looks if she's laying on the floor and wants to put her head in my lap and I'm nnot getting with the program. Also yesterday, while I was sewing, she walked up to me, licked my elbow, and then walked away. You will NEVER convince me that she isn't madly in love with me, bless her rabies-immune heart!
1 reply · active 510 weeks ago
Oh, Probably. Pretty much all I remember is being yelled in a car with a slavering dog on the hood, which impacted me greatly because a beloved dog I had as a child developed epilepsy and I thought he was trying to attack me before they took him away to be put down.
I just lost so much time reading this site. Some more gems:

"I am not a God; I just do the best I can. Sometimes, things happen and I do not feel that I should be penalized for such things."

"Our pups dont get traumatized for the most part. Our pups have been chosen from test scores which include traumatizing pups by slamming down a stack of books, throwing penny cans, keys and shooting off guns." (IS THIS A THING? idk, my delicate Canadian sensibilities are offended by the idea of shooting guns around puppies as a trauma test.)

"How dare they mold me (a person that they have not met, that they do not know) into something that they have conjured up in their weak, selfish and hateful minds. What they say and do, I have no control over and I will not worry myself about..."

"I dont have to prove to anyone that i love my dogs. My belief is that I will see them again. I shall be surrounded by over 3 thousand (not virgins, but) dogs..."
4 replies · active 510 weeks ago
They run off instincts; behavioral instincts and genetic instincts that are passed down from the beginning of that particular species existence.

Aw, lady, I got some real bad news for you about love.
2 replies · active 510 weeks ago
"These arguments in the FAQ are even better than the time those guys on a bodybuilding forum couldn’t agree how many days there were in the week."

The only thing Mallory has ever been wrong about. Nothing is funnier than the days-in-a-week argument.
Science proves that your dog does love you: http://www.amazon.com/How-Dogs-Love-Us-Neuroscien...
I don't believe this has already been posted, but here's an article outlining some very adorable research that supports the theory that animals can love. http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/04...

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