Previous installments of The Toast’s advice column from two disparate and imperfect persons can be found here. Last time: Dating Disclosures.
My sister is a blonde, blue-eyed white girl and just went away to college earlier this fall. I just found out that she wants to transfer to go to a “less urban” college.
She’s actually my half-sister, via my father and stepmother, but we typically don’t make this distinction in my family. Due to our 12-year age difference and the fact that we didn’t grow up in the same house (I lived with my mom and visited my dad for summer/holidays), we aren’t super close. We talk on the phone occasionally, text, and I of course visit her when I visit that half of my family. She lives in Texas, which I wish was not such a key part of this situation, but I fear it just is.
We’ve chatted a few times since she went away to college about her part-time job, classes, and missing her boyfriend, who attends a different school a few hours away. I was surprised when I talked to my dad a few weeks ago and he mentioned that she is working on a plan to transfer to a new school. The first red flag to me was that she wants to transfer to her boyfriend’s school, which…eww in general. It’s also not as academically challenging and my sister is very smart. The second red flag was much, much worse–she feels uncomfortable with all of the black, Hispanic, and gay students on campus. Her plan is to transfer to this other school, with is much less racially/ethnically diverse and located in a rural area. My dad is basically like “I don’t want her to be miserable” and “It’s too much of an artsy atmosphere to have anything for her socially” and is caving to her desire to transfer.
I really want to talk to her about this. I’m just not sure what to say when I get her on the phone.
Nicole: Oh, man, this is a pretty shitty situation. I’m of two minds, honestly, the first of which is “it seems like you do not actually have much of a relationship with this person, and maybe you could just embrace that and let her spin out on her own and not get bogged down in her ish,” but, hey, she’s a tiny baby person, and it sounds like she’s hitting a culture shock wall, and you love her and you’d like her to be better. We have to believe that people can become more interesting, more open people, or we’d just withdraw into our little blue enclaves and…oh.
What’s your dad like? Is your dad more like you, or more like her? If she talks to him a lot, that might be a nice inroad into feeling her out on this stuff, since it seems like you currently have a more casual, text-y relationship, which doesn’t lend itself as well to “let’s talk about the gorgeous rainbow of human diversity.” I’m also asking because what you’re hearing right now seems like you’re getting it from your dad, and not directly from your sister.
My third and strongest mind, which has come to me on re-read, though, is “her boyfriend’s school.” I’m sure she’s frazzled by encountering different types of people, but I think what we have here is also a classic case of not wanting to have to break up with your high school boyfriend, who you are going to wind up breaking up with.
Call her, and ask about him, and how’s she’s feeling about it. I think there’s a decent chance that the other stuff will shake out on its own as she goes through the great school of life, and this particular transfer-request is rooted more in a fear of being on two rapidly-separating ice floes, and trying to find ways to justify the move without saying “it’s for this dude.”
Mallory: Oh, dear. I don’t know about you, but I can generally smell a conversation that’s designed to change my mind from miles away, especially when it’s initiated by someone who normally doesn’t call just to say hello. Do feel awfully free — in fact I think I would encourage you — to become somewhat more of a presence in her life, both because having a sister can be quite a lot of fun and also so you can set a Shining Progressive Example, but divest yourself immediately of the idea that you can convince her not to switch schools to be closer to a legion of Caucasian boyfriends, or whatever. If she hasn’t already learned that white people aren’t at our best in groups, she will soon enough. (We can be so great one-on-one, sometimes! What is it about bringing us together that just sucks eggs?)
I think it’s a good and a lovely idea to try to become a bit closer to her, and I think it would be perfectly appropriate to call and tell her you heard she was thinking about transferring, and to ask her how college has been treating her so far and where she wants to go and what she wants to get out of it. But I don’t think there will be much you can do or say at this point that will influence her decision.
Maybe transferring schools will be a terrible decision; maybe it will be her Racist and Homophobic finishing school. Maybe she won’t transfer at all; maybe she’ll transfer and break up with her boyfriend five weeks into the spring semester and get really into psychedelics for a few months and mellow out and start a queer literary magazine. Anything can happen in college.
So. I’m a woman, I’m 24, I’ve spent the last twelve years cheerfully dating and mooning over men, the last eight years fucking them, and the last…five? we’ll say five…months abruptly and more than incidentally attracted to women. Which is fine! I’m not existentially devastated, or consumed with self-loathing. I mean, my lesbian friends are at the point where they’ve started experimenting with men, which makes me feel behind the curve, but no one in my life would have a problem with me dating, fucking, and/or mooning over women (although coming out does seem…tiring).
I guess my question is…is this normal? Is it…a thing that happens? Does your sexuality (well, not your sexuality. My sexuality. One’s sexuality) up and change more than a decade after puberty? And if it has, now what? Is it fair for me to start dating women while this is new and a little confusing? How much of the above should I disclose if I start seeing a lady–can I just pull a “Haha, this will be highly experimental!” before going down on her? I feel so stunted.
I don’t know why this is embarrassing, but it is (please picture me covering my face with my hands after each sentence). My family is so liberal! I’m so well-adjusted about sex! Why didn’t this happen earlier? What is wrong with me? UGH. I would love to hear what you and your brilliant readers have to say.
Nicole: Is there any chance you rear-ended a lesbian witch-crone figure with your car, and then she stroked your cheek with a fabulous talon and said: “gayerrrr”?
No? Okay, this is definitely a Mallory question. My advice is hopelessly generic and is all “go for it, tiger, be honest and transparent and do not use people as experiments, but if you want to kiss someone and that person is into it, godspeed.”
OH, I do feel very, very confident in saying that you should not say anything about the mysteries of your first oral encounter with a woman during the experience itself, though. No references to The Descent, especially.
Mallory: Oh, it’s fine! It’s fine. I mean, don’t ever use the word “experimental” with a woman who dates women, but the rest of it is fine. There are just boatloads of gay and bi women who feel like they got hit over the head with the Lesbian Hammer comparatively late in life, and that they need to catch up to all the real dykes who were playing bass and wearing rainbow bandanas in the eighth grade.
If I had to guess, I’d say as many as 45% of us are all wandering around the edges of the party, drink nervously in hand, too terrified to look at one another because we’re all convinced we’re the Least Gay Woman in the room. (I have no idea where I got that percentage, but you know what I mean.)
Also: your lesbian friends are already hitting their straight phase at 24? Are you living in Logan’s Run? Are you nearing death? Do you need help escaping Carousel?
But it’s fine. You’re fine, everything is fine. Go out with some women. Keep it light, keep it fun, try not to have more than two drinks on your first date, if drinking too much on a first date and thinking you like someone more than you actually do is a problem you sometimes have.
I don’t know why it hasn’t happened earlier for you; I also don’t think being “well-adjusted sexually” is necessarily a fixed and universal thing, since having sex is an entirely distinct proposition with each new partner, so don’t feel worried that you weren’t so well-adjusted you didn’t adjust yourself into homosexuality at the age of nine. What has happened has happened; what is happening now is happening now, and it’s fine. Being a lesbian isn’t necessarily like joining the Jets; you’re not one all the way from your first cigarette to your last dying day. You’ll have particularly gay days; you may have particularly gay years or relationships or seasons or afternoons, and there’s nothing to be done about it. Date as many women as you find yourself interested in for as long as you like. Be honest, be kind, and be patient with yourself and with them in bed. You’ll figure out what works for you and I am sure you will find yourself with as many receptive, communicative, enthusiastic lesbian sex chums as you desire.
One of my old college friends was a thousand-yarder — the kind of lesbian you can spot from a quarter-mile away, which is one of the best kind of lesbian — who fell in love with her straight best friend. They were so damn precious together it made you want to move into the woods and start talking to animals. But we were all a little nervous for the first few months (“She wears eye makeup and has a real case of straight voice and it’s not that we don’t think she loves you, it’s just what if some tall guy named Chad comes along? No one can compete with a tall guy named Chad”). Reader, they have been together for five years and recently got engaged. They are disgustingly happy. They go to pumpkin carvings and do scrapbooking and rescue dogs and make out in front of waterfalls and they are just crazy for one another. I don’t know what this anecdote was supposed to illustrate, other than the fact that I’m a little jealous of my old college friend’s relationship. Maybe it’s just this: there are many paths that lead to lesbianism. Some tarry there for only a short while before returning to the sunlit fields; others make their home there forever in the sisterhood of womyn. It’s all great, though. Look at Krisbians.
It’s my belief that everyone has the right and the duty to be as gay as they possibly can. Not as gay as you think you should be; as gay as you are capable of. This may mean dating a few women, eventually taking a husband to your bosom, but always supporting shows with lesbian characters, or occasionally looking at femslash on Tumblr, or maybe even just loudly proclaiming that Kate McKinnon is your favorite SNL cast member. The important thing to remember, I think, is that you can be just as proud of being a little bit gay as you would be of being enormously so.
Think of lesbianism the way flight attendants for Southwest Airlines think of your business: “Whether this is your final destination or just a stop in your journey, we know you have your choice of airlines and thank you for flying Southwest.” It’s perfectly fair to date women without knowing whether or not you are ready to settle down with one for the rest of your born days. Just be straightforward and don’t build up someone’s expectations if you don’t intend to follow through. That’s just a good rule of dating. Not even lesbian-specific.
I will now generalize grossly from my own experience dating women: even the least successful first date I have ever been on was tremendously pleasant. We had coffee and then looked at shoes together (I KNOW). Women, by and large, are very nice and make for splendid listeners. I’m sure there are exceptions, but I don’t happen to know any. Women will be painfully kind and respectful if they decide to turn you down, and women will almost always show up on time when you’ve made plans together.
So: be honest about your history, by all means, but don’t make it the first thing a prospective date learns about you. You’ve been dating for a while, sure, but you’re also only 24; you’re not exactly a late-in-life dyke bloomer. Plenty of bisexual and lesbian women haven’t had their first girlfriend or hookup by their mid-20s. I am very Old; I am going to be 27 next week. I should know.
Tags: advice, advice from two disparate persons, she said she said
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Apropos of nothing, I was watching Double Impact on Netflix Nederland the other week and they spelled Chad as Tsjaad. This is my new favorite thing.
On the contrary, that is apropos of EVERYTHING.
I think, as we get into our late twenties and thirties, that we really begin to see sexuality as less well defined as we always thought it was. I felt like I was wholly bisexual for most of my high school years and into college, but then in my late 20’s I started to just… only want to sleep with men. That was it. I still present as a bit queer I think, in a femme way, but am more hetero in my feelings than I’ve ever been in my life. Similarly fuzzily defined, a good friend of mine in her 30s was in a long-term lesbian relationship but is now in a hetero relationship and still wondering if she likes the V more than the P.
So… we don’t have to pack ourselves into neat parcels. I think people who don’t fit into neat parcels are kind of interesting too. But like Mallory said, try to be as honest with yourself and your prospective dates about where you’re at, just as a courtesy. And good luck!
Agree completely. I, too, am mostly attracted to men for the first time in my life. When I graduated from college, I was sure that I had no interest in guys. Sexuality is a complicated thing.
Ahh this advice is always so good. You ladies are very wise.
I would only add to the “this may shake itself out eventually” theory for LW1 by sharing a bit of my own experience. I moved from a small town to a slightly larger one to go to college. It wasn’t rural, per se, but it was definitely segregated. And it was weird, and hard to deal with, and I very easily could have become some psychotic homophobe if left to the wild white beasts who ruled the campus. I had my parents, who were tolerant, if still a bit backwards, but I was still starting to lean that way by the end of it. What really helped, though, was going to grad school and making completely new friends in a very new place. I thought I knew who I was when I arrived. I was very wrong!
I guess what I’m saying is, you never know what will make someone turn away from bigotry once they’re exposed to it in a convincing setting, but having open, supportive people around them throughout their journey sure helps.
Letter Writer 2, google Lisa Diamond and then read an interview with her or watch a video lecture of hers. She a really neat scientist who studies sexuality. She’s done long-term longitudinal studies that show, yes, it is totally normal for women’s sexuality and self identification to change over time, sometimes later in life than you would expect. she is great.
also, yes, it is tiring to come out, even if everyone in your life is going to be pretty okay with it. for me, the annoying thing is that it’s not a one-time thing. unless you’re in very queer social circles (which I tend to seek out for this reason!) the de facto assumption is that you’re straight, so every time you meet a new person, that’s another person who is perceiving your sexuality incorrectly.
BUT my experience has been, once the really important people in your life know, the rest of it doesn’t matter as much.
Really, the only people who you *need* to come out to, other than ladies you’d like to date, are the family/friends you normally lean on for emotional support. It sucks to cut yourself off from those supports in order to keep a secret.
The other people in your life, the friendly faces who you’re not as close to, if you choose not to disclose, it’s not such a big deal. After the big people in your life are in the know, though, you’ll probably find that it’s easier to just be out to everyone else. Their potential reactions just won’t be a big deal to you. It’ll start to feel more natural to casually slip it into conversation. Someone mentions a new restaurant they’d like to try, and you say, “oh, this girl I went on a date with last week said she really likes the food there, I’ve been meaning to try it out too,” or the topic of what new tv shows you’re watching this season comes up, and you say, “well, I have a crush on Lizzy Caplan, so I’ll watch anything she’s in.” (though obviously Lizzy Caplan in a button-down a-la Party Down is the best, because yes.) It just comes up naturally, and eventually feels easier to just say what you’re thinking than to edit yourself.
“If I had to guess, I’d say as many as 45% of us are all wandering around the edges of the party, drink nervously in hand, too terrified to look at one another because we’re all convinced we’re the Least Gay Woman in the room. (I have no idea where I got that percentage, but you know what I mean.)”
I JUST BREATHED A SIGH OF RELIEF; even after 3 years of dating a lady I still feel this! Ahh all of it was so good.
I came out 8 years ago. I’m what one might call a “gold star” (which, ew, why do we still have that term?). I am the token gay. AND YET I STILL FEEL THIS WAY. #femmeproblems
(True anxiety: this weekend I’m supposed to go hang out at some queer event at a bar and I am so frustrated because why can’t I just wear a fucking dress and some pearls without people asking me if I was just at work OR if I am lost? WHY? DRESSES AND PEARLS ALWAYS.)
Just tell everyone you made the pearls in your vagina. And then cackle wildly and walk away.
I will do this. I will also wear my new tshirt from Litographs!
Yeah, totally. I’ve been dating a lady for seven years now and I STILL feel like this.
Can we all just meet up at the edges and exchange saliva and book recommendations?
I want to be at this party.
happy almost birthday, mallory!
also, I am somewhat pleased that the term “Krisbians” is now in my search history on my work computer, so thank you for that.
also, this made me feel some cringy shame about the number of gay dates that i have been late to. (it is close to the number of gay dates I have been on.)
“I’d say as many as 45% of us are all wandering around the edges of the party, drink nervously in hand, too terrified to look at one another because we’re all convinced we’re the Least Gay Woman in the room.”
YEP.
I feel like I am going to fuck up this sentence but Mallory’s answer to LW2 is basically what I wish Dear Sugar was like in reality–gentle and wise and encouraging without all the unnecessary foofery and frippery.
Foofery. Yes.
Truth
She wants to go to A&M, doesn’t she?
That was my exact thought, and 80% of the reason I chose not to go there. Ugh, rednecks.
That being said, my sister and husband are both Aggies, and are not terrible people, so.
My husband and sister-in-law are both Aggies. I think it’s a good school as long as you stay away from football. (The football scares me.)
I see it as Tech because of the “hours away” thing. A&M & UT aren’t that far apart and when it comes to academics, on equal footing.
Maybe Stephen F? That one’s a definite step down.
“Is there any chance you rear-ended a lesbian witch-crone figure with your car, and then she stroked your cheek with a fabulous talon and said: “gayerrrr”?” hahaha Nicole, I’m glad you attempted that question just so I was able to read that sentence.
i tried to rear end a witch-crone figure but it turned out she was a lesbian. darn.
MALLORY ORTBERG. I love you. This is exactly what people should be saying to women who have the questions about their sexuality. It is compassionate and wise and fun and great and takes into consideration that dating ladies is not merely as simple as “just do it,” Nike-style. I am impressed. I want to buy you a beer RIGHT NOW.
Mallory, your answer to the second question is the best advice anyone has ever adviced. I just want you to know that.
Wow, I am so grateful for LW2’s question and Mallory’s answer to it. I’m 26 and mostly hetero-identified/experienced but identify as queer (I *guess*, I prefer not to identify as anything but that’s too vague), and while I’ve had numerous lovely and special sexual experiences with women, I just went on my first date with a woman not one week ago. I was so nervous, not just because I like her.. she was kind and fun, but when she asked me about my previous relationships, whether or not I was out, etc, I felt like she was grilling me and checking my Lesbian Club Membership.
I get that these are fair questions, but how should I respond? “Yes, you are the first female person I’ve dated”? I’m shy about it because I fear having my authenticity doubted. It’s not an Experiment for me, I know I love women. But some lesbians I know are pretty harsh about this—a friend of mine recently tweeted, “Just got a message on dating site that actually said ‘I’ve never dated a girl but would really like to.’ Y’all know it’s not like backpacking through Thailand, right?” And while this certainly a valid position, I just don’t know how to respond or be respectful of this attitude.
Honestly, I think that is sort of a shitty, biphobic attitude and I’m not sure you actually need to be respectful of it! People are nervous about the first time they attempt any sexual experience, and I absolutely said the same thing before I got to start actually dating and sleeping with women. I mean, I didn’t say it to women I was interested in because it sounds a bit like “any girl will do”, but I definitely said it. It was true! I had not yet dated women and I did really want to.
I think the grilling on dates thing is so ridiculous. Why, WHY, on a first date, are you grilling some random woman that you met on the internet about her sexual and romantic history? That is just terrible.
I side-eye the “I’ve never dated a girl but would really like to” thing for the same reason — any girl will do, huh? Make it about the other person. Go on dates with people you’re attracted to, make it known that you’re attracted to them and that you like them, and if you want to date them, do it because you like them. That is how one does it.
But is it important to be open about how inexperienced I am with lady-dating?
Not at all! One of the best parts (I think) about dating ladies is that we’re all so freaking different. There’s not the same roadmap as in many hetero relationships, and i think having lesbian sexy times with a new woman always feels like having sex for the first time because who knows where she likes to be touched or kissed or how fast with the tongue or all the different parts!
Nope! That is not information that you need to volunteer. Don’t lie about it if you’re asked directly, but you don’t have to say anything if you don’t want to. I think this is especially true since you said you’ve already had sexual experiences with women.
Really, the only difference I’ve noticed between dating men and dating women is that the women I’ve dated were nowhere near as emotionally stunted as the men I’ve dated. If you’ve already got relationship experience in general and sexual experience with women, I’d say that you are as prepared to date women as you need to be. 🙂
Mallory that sounds like the best failed date EVER. WHERE ARE THESE WOMEN? THAT’S EXACTLY THE KIND OF DATING I WANT IN MY LIFE!!
Oh, Mallory, your response to LW #2 is exactly what I needed to read right now. I’ve been in a weird place for a while because there is a woman who I would like to date, but trying to figure if I want to date women writ large has been enormously stressful and confusing. It’s mostly led to me being a coward and hiding my feelings and doing absolutely nothing about the situation because it feels scary. So, this column has been a really, really helpful perspective that not no one else in my life could provide me (if I even told them what I was thinking in the first place.)
I think that is a very real anxiety to have, and while I think the “born this way” narrative has been very useful and legitimizing for lots of homos (especially dyed-in-the-wool people), it can be alienating and counterproductive for those of us somewhere along the spectrum, caught in the middle. To use your example, why does dating one woman mean that one Dates Women? (not grilling you, just questioning the larger cultural narrative.)
I agree with you completely that the homo/heterosexual binary is deeply problematic, and based on my own sexuality, I find it anecdotally false. I think my worries lay in answering questions to others. What if I switch back and forth from men to women? I have people in my life who really couldn’t conceive of that and things would get weird.
I am a coward. I fully realize this/
aw I wasn’t calling you a coward! But your experience sounds like mine. What if, indeed 🙂
The last bit Mallory said makes me desperately wish I were a lesbian. My aunt and her wife were explaining the other day how much more fun it is to plan a lesbian wedding because both ladies care about all of the things and plan together, and while that may not be true for every lesbian couple, it makes me INTENSELY JEALOUS and also wish my husband was a little more like a lady. Why do you hate shopping so much, Mr. TeacherFace?
Sometimes I dislike the stereotypes you’re describing (because not all ladies are the same), but I’m going to admit that it is one of the BEST PARTS of being a big lez.
I’m not a lady–just a confused skinny queer boy with inadequate hair and nails–but the advice to LW2 helped me feel more at home in my own sexuality today. I would try to pinpoint the exact bit that helped me most, but I’m just happy to have read something so funny and humane and REAL about the whole complex of anxieties and beautiful things we go through. I feel better for having read it, and that, right now, is everything
Thank you, Mallory Ortberg!
This is the only internet advice column I do not hate (side eye towards Dear Sugar et al).
I love Dear Sugar and I love this! Can’t we all just get along?
Mallory, that was really lovely.
mallory ortberg, you are wonderful.
i’m quite comfortable calling myself a big ol’ queer today, but i am a ball of anxiety about everything ever… and sexuality was no exception. i live in the wonderful *gay area*, but i still spent my early twenties worrying about how i was “read,” making nervous eye contact at the lex (anyone?), freaking out about dating a guy and wondering if that meant that no woman would ever want me again, etc. i’m 27 now and i’ve settled into weird domesticity with the dude, but ohmygod i still dream about women and i love the opportunities to come out 3403940394 times a day.
I still make nervous eye contact at the Lex. The Lex scares the shit out of me, why are they all so cliquey??? And why do they not like femmes who don’t look like Bettie Page?
so cliquey! that is, unless you go on weekdays when the sun is still out (5-6. yep, i’m cool). i was there once with a friend and the only other people in the bar were (a very confused) luke wilson and his girlfriend. at least i got first pass at the pool table?
I will totally meet up with you at the Lex for twilight queer hangout time! I’m being dragged to El Rio tomorrow for Mango and I’m hoping it won’t be terribly awkward. Socializing, I am the worst at it.
mango! i usually end up mashed against the shuffleboard table.
i would totally be up for twilight drinking at the lex sometime!
I would also be down for queer toast hangouts! And I will try to take this advice to heart and not let myself drown in Lesbian Imposter Syndrome.
The solution is to go to the Wild Side West instead!! It’s way more relaxing and they have a beautiful yard for day drinking. The demographic definitely skews more toward moms (i.e. my mom) but everyone is really friendly and you don’t feel judged, and there are occasional hip young babes there (i.e. me hanging out with my mom).
THE LEX. THE LEX. That is like the les rite of passage, right? The first time I went in there god my heart was in my mouth. UGH.
Re LW1. I have sibling(s) about that much older than me, and there’s really nothing more off-putting than the random intervention where they tell me how to live my life right based on something they heard I was doing wrong via a parent. Seriously, if you are not already close enough to this person to have a natural, honest conversation about it with her, a conversation that is part of the larger fabric of your natural honest conversations with each other, just stay out of it. She gets to make her own mistakes (or what look to you like mistakes). So basically, what Mallory said, co-signed by a much younger sibling.
Wait, what’s straight voice? Do I have it? I have a high-pitched lilt and I over-enunciate, so I probably have it.
This is probably more about my psychology than anyone ever need know, but I suspect I would have plumbed the depths of Potential Lesbian Tendencies quite a lot deeper if I weren’t basically terrified of women. And by “women,” I of course mean “my mother.”
There were at least three hardcore lady-crushes, though, that never went anywhere except to me in my head in my room, writing sonnets to their hair and lips. Maybe if I were less afraid of ladies, I would have tried to see what else was there? Dunno. Sexuality, it is strange. I think it helps that I am quite fond of men, so if penis is all I ever experience, it’ll do.
I’m definitely holding Mallory’s answer to my bosom as I go on my first ever date with a woman on Monday… Probably re-reading it multiple times this weekend.
good luck! I hope you have a nice time 🙂
Thank you! I’m excited!
I can’t believe it took me 34 years to discover my life motto: “It’s my belief that everyone has the right and the duty to be as gay as they possibly can.”
Re LW1:
Here’s the thing about being right. You can be right all the time, but it doesn’t do you any good to tell people how right you are if they think you are an insufferable asshole.
I learned this lesson the hard way with a good friend who transferred schools for ehr boring HS boyfriend who was worthless in more ways than I can describe. And I told her repeatedly and at great length to break up with him. Her being her, she completely ignored me, but was angry that I was such a bossy pain in the ass. And then things got weird when he dumped her at a really tragic time for a freshman. I’m not sure what she learned from me being a bitch for literally years. (And why she is still friends with me? I win, obv.) But I learned that even if I’m right, and listening to me will make someone else’s life better, they are probably not going to listen to me.
That said, I like the idea of reaching out to her. You have been to college more recently than parents and can provide some perspective. But try to do it in a “Here is some information I have that you may not have but maybe you’ve considered this already and what do I know.” kind of way. Stick to logical reasons, that have nothing to do with race, or relationships. You can’t change her feelings on those issues, but you can overwhelm them with rationality, and hope that they change on their own.
I really think that no matter where you go your freshman year sucks, and if you transfer you just have to experience another freshman year at another school where people already have friends and are not in the same place as you. That’s a good, non judgemental, logical reason not to transfer.
But ultimately, you can’t change her, or what she’s going to do. And the sooner you accept that the better your relationship will be.
Oh Mallory, that WSS reference. So good. so true. Now I have that song stuck in my head. TIL MY LAST DYING DAY.
I am slightly drunk and therefore feel it is perfectly appropriate for me to comment just to say “AWWW THANKS” for Mallory’s lesbian wisdom, as a bisexual woman married to a man who occasionally frets about having betrayed the sisterhood.
But seriously, Kate McKinnon IS the best SNL cast member. I mean, dang. She is just brilliant and FUNNY.
Mallory Ortberg, forever saying the things that I need to hear.
(32yo out-and-proud bi woman married to a straight man, reporting for Not Gay Enough duty!)
Mallory that was so heartwarming and perfect!
“Women, by and large, are very nice and make for splendid listeners. I’m sure there are exceptions, but I don’t happen to know any. Women will be painfully kind and respectful if they decide to turn you down, and women will almost always show up on time when you’ve made plans together.”
Clearly, you are not in LA.
“It’s my belief that everyone has the right and the duty to be as gay as they possibly can. Not as gay as you think you should be; as gay as you are capable of.”
Ohhhh this is really nice. I have thought this way, but I have not been able to put it into words, or at least not so well. I know a lot of my friends DO derive a lot of positive feelings from declaring how very very gay they are, that they don’t understand straight people, and that’s totally cool, I get it, but it is not the place I’m coming from and that’s ok too. My girlfriend is much the same as I am–I tend to say I don’t mind men in theory, I will read straight romance novels or write fiction about straight people or whatever, but I’m pretty set on dating women in person. And that is cool too!
"It’s my belief that everyone has the right and the duty to be as gay as they possibly can. Not as gay as you think you should be; as gay as you are capable of."
Ohhhh this is really nice. I have thought this way, but I have not been able to put it into words, or at least not so well. I know a lot of my friends DO derive a lot of positive feelings from declaring how very very gay they are, that they don't understand straight people, and that's totally cool, I get it, but it is not the place I'm coming from and that's ok too. My girlfriend is much the same as I am–I tend to say I don't mind men in theory, I will read straight romance novels or write fiction about straight people or whatever, but I'm pretty set on dating women in person. And that is cool too!
Thank you Mallory – your advice to letter writer #2 was exactly what I needed to hear right now.
Thank you Mallory – your advice to letter writer #2 was exactly what I needed to hear right now.
This is so so so late, but thank you, Mallory, for so neatly encapsulating my thinking on queer identity, from being a big-old mostly-dyke for nearly 30 years.
'Think of lesbianism the way flight attendants for Southwest Airlines think of your business: “Whether this is your final destination or just a stop in your journey, we know you have your choice of airlines and thank you for flying Southwest.”'
Perfection.
Belatedly, the "born this way" narrative has been given more of a grilling lately, but it kind of sucks still. I mean what, we get rights because those poor queers can't *help* themselves or because giving rights to people when they have no impact on your own is the right thing to do?
And I don't care how dykey-at-birth you were while the rest of us took till puberty, our late teens, our late 20s, our 40s, or whatever the fuck, to figure it out, expressing your queer self is a CHOICE. It is. We choose to have sex. Or not. We choose to have romantic relationships. Or not.
Sure we have our preferences, orientations, whatever. But whatever they are, we choose the expression of them.
(I'm assuming here that we do have free choice, and we're not in a situation where any of the above is imposed on us.)
“It’s my belief that everyone has the right and the duty to be as gay as they possibly can.” This is gonna sound a little silly, but this sentence changed my life. When I read it when this post first ran, I was engaged to a dude. Just now, my current partner (who was for sure “playing bass and wearing rainbow bandanas in the eighth grade”) had to stop me and give me a hug when I started unexpectedly happy-life-changes crying while trying to read it to them. This one will probably be my *actual* last comment on The Toast, and I am just so, so happy to have been here. This place has meant so much. Thanks. <3
I’m so happy for you! Go fortunata!
Toastie hugs! I directly trace at least 50% of me owning being interested in dating ladies to this post.