Noah is a multiracial Korean American. Nicole is a Korean American adoptee with multiracial kids. They both have a large number of white relatives and, to date, have not managed to turn a single one of them even a little bit Asian.
Regrettable Things Our White Relatives Have Said to Us, Or Why Having an Asian Person in Your Family Does Not Make You “Less White”
Are you ever sad that you aren’t white?
Your eyes aren’t that squinty.
Too bad the Asian side determined your height!
Can I still say “Oriental,” or is that not a thing?
I mean, I don’t expect anyone to call me a Swedish American.
But I’ve ALWAYS called you an “Asian princess” and it never bothered you before!!!
Could you pass the flied lice? HA HA HA
I read somewhere that hybrid people have better genes.
Sure, the internment of Japanese Americans was pretty bad, but hindsight is 20/20 and we were AT WAR.
What’s that Korean dish called again — “buldoggy”?
Your dad had such a funny accent, remember?!
You’re lucky you got the Asian skin, it won’t age as fast.
Seriously, you just look like a kid to me.
You’re pretty tall! For an Asian, I mean.
It doesn’t matter, someday we won’t have “races” anymore.
Thank you for bringing all that melanin into our family!
You’re not like other Asians. You know, the real Asians.
Were you closing your eyes in that photo? I can never tell with you.
Of course I was surprised when your parents adopted a Korean, but I wasn’t unhappy about it.
You should be glad you were raised in a Christian country.
You should be glad you were raised in a country that values girls.
If you’d been raised around lots of Koreans, you would probably be a surgeon by now.
Why do you care so much about Asian stuff?
Why do you talk so much about racism?
What are you so angry about?
I married an Asian because someone told me that yellow people would inherit the earth.
Do you think you’ll look whiter one day?
Do you think your kids will ever look more Asian?
It’s so funny, I wouldn’t even know your kids were part Korean if I didn’t know you!
Tell me the truth — do you guys feel superior to white people?
You know I don’t see you as Asian.
Tags: asian americans, family, nicole soojung callahan, noah cho, racism, seriously folks get it together please, sometimes it does help and sometimes it just means there is no filter
This makes me want to cry.
My tummy hurts. I wish Nicole was a big fat liar making allof hese up.
*RAGE*
Most of the awkward race stuff on my white side of the family has been said to my mom and not me, buuuut a lot of those sound familiar.
I imagine there must be multiracial people whose families weren’t awkward about it in some way. I just haven’t met them yet.
I was just going to volunteer my own family– my dad’s aunt and uncle were African-American and Jewish, respectively, got married right after WWII, and had two kids. Everybody is very close and non-awkward.
Then I remembered my grandfather saying that some of the extended family never spoke to any of them again after they got married, so NVM. (I guess they stopped speaking to my grandfather and his immediate family, too, because I never met them).
This . . . this can’t . . . really?
UGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHH.
“I don’t think of you as Asian, I just think of you as you.” UGHUGHUGHUGH.
So, noted, I won’t EVER do this. But I also want to understand why. Please don’t yell at me. I’m not *trying* to be a dumbass. (I won’t say I’m not one.)
Is it because someone is saying basically, “I don’t think of you as [major part of your identity – thereby discounting it], I just think of you as [my preferred version of you].” Something like that?
Is it also because the person is kind of complimenting themselves, like “*I* don’t see ‘race’ even though it’s completely obvious and I’m an oblivious hypocrite for claiming not to.” So it’s like a backhanded humble brag?
And maybe the person would be announcing something like, “I’m outing myself as coming from such insulated and so-far unchallenged privilege that I can still believe comforting old chestnuts like ‘race doesn’t matter’.”?
missed the big one; its kinda messed up that a white person tells a a person of color that they dont think of them as a poc as a COMPLEMENT.
I have had a couple casual “friends” through adolescence say to me, “You’re white.” Like I had no say in it and it was obviously true. (I’m not, I’m Korean, and boy did I let them have it for that.)
WHAT THE FUCK Ughhhhh
I’m torn between O.O and >:[
My husband is white and his mother told me, “He had a Chinese girlfriend in kindergarten, so that’s where that started.”
THAT.
MINDY
NO
I almost said, “That’s where what started, his Asian fetish?” but that’s unfair to my husband (who looked like he wanted to die).
My husband’s brother is adopted from Korea and while MIL loves him (and he clearly loves her back) the things she says are… o_0
Can we just once and for all destroy the idea that dating somebody who’s of a different race/gender/etc than expected constitutes a fetish?
no because many people DO have an Asian fetish. obviously not all, but many. why so defensive. “fetish” sounds a bit exaggerated (actually works in some cases), but overall, they have a “thing” for Asian women
I think what grumblyqueer was saying is that it’s unfair to automatically ASSUME any couple is together because of a fetish. No one is saying fetishes don’t EXIST.
Case in point, the banner advertisement that I am seeing now is for a highly-suspect dating site. Is there somewhere I should report that?
Edit: Earlier the banner advertisement was for an audiobook subscription service, if that one were to return, I would click on it posthaste.
OMG I am sorry. That should not happen! Please screencap it or something, and send it to me! [email protected]
You can report by clicking the little x in the top right! It will give you a list of options, I marked them all as “inappropriate”.
I’m not sure how much it does, because I have marked a belly fat one as irrelevant every single time I have seen it, but it makes me feel a wee bit better.
Wait, I missed this – your MIL has an adopted Korean son, and STILL said this? I mean, I’m sadly not surprised but god.
after many years in the family, the only thing I’m SURE my in-laws appreciate about me is the fact that I’m responsible for our kids’ slow-to-sunburn skin.
Ohhhhhh. no.
Oh god, my mother likes to explain the fact that her ex-husband (my father) ran off with a Filipino woman by saying “oh when he lived in New Mexico his parents wouldn’t let him date a Navajo girl, so he’s always had a thing for exotic women.” Nevermind that he was married to my mother, Mrs Whitey McWhiterson, for 33 years instead of, y’know, moving back to NM (or wherever) after high school and actually marrying a woman of color.
My (white) mother doesn’t understand why racial affinity groups are still a thing and encourages my (multiracial) son to disregard invitations to celebrate his scholastic achievements with them. “After all, all sorts of people struggle and need support. Why can’t we celebrate everyone?”
That sounds like my coworker who often says ‘I don’t understand why we need labels. Why can’t we all just get along? I don’t see people that way!’
Noted, straight, white, Christian-majority lady. She also didn’t understand why we maybe shouldn’t stick a Christmas tree in an office with four Tibetan Buddhists.
(thinks of how much crap like this my niece or nephew currently in utero is going to hear)
(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻)
“I married an Asian because someone told me that yellow people would inherit the earth.” <– this kind of forward-thinking racism amuses me greatly. GREATLY.
I mean, how do you not get into a whole thing with that statement? Like, WHO told you that? Where? Was it at some kind of closed compound run by a charismatic Asian cult leader? What are they going to do with the earth when they inherit it? Is this like some kind of Left Behind scenario where all the non-yellow people disappear unless you had the good sense to hook up with an Asian? You can’t just put that out there and leave it hanging with no follow up story!
Also, my god. That person’s poor Asian wife wife/husband. D:
HNNNNNNNNNNNG
“Tell me the truth — do you guys feel superior to white people?”
RIGHT NOW, YES, TO YOU SPECIFICALLY THOUGH.
It kind of boggles my mind how often white people will pose a question to Asians that has NO socially acceptable answer
I know, it’s absurd! As soon as my son can speak, I intend to train him in sassy responses/rude hand gestures to all of these scenarios. I don’t want him to be left speechless and appalled.
We get a lot — A LOT — of looks, comments, and questions as a multiracial family. My least favorite question is [looking at my kids] “So what are they?”
When I’m feeling growly I make my tone very chilly and I say, “My kids.” And kind of raise my eyebrows a little. And people don’t always Get It, but often there is no follow-up.
I like that response! Taking it for the future for strangers. It’s hard when it’s family or people I like, though.
I’m going to ask you that every time I see you so you can get practice shutting people down.
THANKS. I will glare at your face so hard.
well, my family and friends know the kids’ racial breakdown so they don’t ask! I’ve only ever been asked “what are they?” by clueless strangers.
True, family/friends usually ask “are you surprised he doesn’t look Asian” and I really want to be able to reply “NO. THE END. GO AWAY AND ASK ME NO MORE OF YOUR STUPID QUESTIONS” but to be honest I was kind of surprised and I don’t feel good lying about it. :/
ugghhhh I really hate the variations on “why don’t your kids look ‘more Asian’/were you surprised about it.” I usually say: 1) THEY DO LOOK ASIAN, NOT ALL ASIANS LOOK THE SAME and/or 2) no, I was NOT surprised they also look white, I was pretty sure I knew who their dad was and/or 3) OMG I was TOTALLY SHOCKED but at least it helped me figure out who their father is!!!!
You should just say/do whatever feels most comfortable for you, but I get these remarks/questions from family and friends, too (my parents AND my in-laws), and I no longer feel like I owe them serious or patient answers to silly/offensive questions. It’s not always the time to start an argument with a stranger about this, but family and close friends should just know better, or they should LEARN. (I can say all of this NOW. It took me a year or two into motherhood to feel 100% confident in it.)
Ah I missed this response last week! Thank for the support in shutting down absurdity Nicole! Both Nicoles! Gonna get myself 100% confident to end nonsense right now!
This is amazing. I don’t even want kids, but I want to have multiracial kids just to use this line.
I would look at my kids and then with a puzzled voice say, “human I think. Well, we haven’t tested them yet, but that is probably the case. Definitely, human or human adjacent I would say”
I actually haven’t ever been asked this, which is probably a good thing, because I totally would retort with, “Yes, and shhh… we’re slowly taking over the world – stay on my good side and I’ll put in a good word for you.” I would actually have a blast trolling someone a la Jim & Dwight from The Office and pretend I was part of an Asian Illuminati, hahaha. But that’s my sick sense of humor.
*This* is the greatest answer.
Scene: random dive bar. Players: white, middle-aged dude, and myself, half-Asian stranger.
WMAD: “Sorry to bother you, but are you a Korean adoptee?”
Me: *caught off-guard* “No… sorry.”
WMAD: “Oh. I was just wondering because I was looking for some advice…”
me: “stares”
WMAD: “about my 7yo son that we adopted”
me: “sorry, can’t help you. I was born here.”
WMAD, SOMEHOW STILL TALKING: “Are you of Korean descent? You sort of look it.”
me: *stare of death* “No.”
WMAD: “Oh. okay.. just curious. It’s a big world, I guess.”
END SCENE.
Everything about your story made me say NO. No no no no a million times no why would you ever think that that was acceptable behavior?
Right?! Like, I’m sorry you are having trouble, but there are internet forums/counseling/therapy for that. Also, even if I did have the information he was looking for it still would have been a horrendous situation.
‘what the stranger at the bar said’ is a highly underrated source of childrearing wisdom tho
1) That is awful/awkward.
2) White adoptive parents neeeever want my advice and I AM ADOPTED
1) This is where I apologize for my people/seek a cookie for being a credit to my race because SRSLY? Follow him home & ask for his placement SW’s phone #. Adoption agency failure.
2)That is a vile calumny. I ask for your advice on issues related to raising my (Asian) teen. Perhaps the packaging (my requests are cleverly disguised as advice on issues related to one of your children) has disguised my requests.
Or possibly the fact that I typically don’t ask for specific advice so much as listen to what you say about what just didn’t go so well, and then I don’t do that. To the extent that ‘not doing that’ is a thing in my capabilities.
‘Raising a racially ambiguous (but definitely Khmer if you know WTF that even is) kid in a mostly-white family in a racially charged culture’ is a thing I decided to do before I knew you, so…no reflection on your advice there.
I always enjoy talking with you, Alex, about any of our kids.
Yep. I’m a (white) adoptee and I have several friends who are adopting who could not be less interested in my experience or thoughts on it.
I get a lot of “things are different now!” (I mean, yes and no!), but yeah, I think many do not want to hear it. It’s not as if my experience was solidly negative, either! There were just things that didn’t get addressed until I was an adult. (I’m one of the lucky ones in that it DID eventually get addressed.) What really makes me cringe are the white adoptive parents who are convinced that race is somehow not relevant because they don’t want it to be.
Yeah I just always say things like “that’s great! If you ever have any questions about what it was like for me or if you want some recommendations of books to read let me know!” And they’re always like “K byeeeeeeeeeeeee.”
Did you read the NYT Magazine piece about Korean adoptees from a few months ago? I was so glad it happened. I hope some adoptive parents read that and went, “Hmmmm. Maybe my child’s circumstances of birth/genetic history/race/culture/biological relatives mean more than I realize. And maybe this isn’t just about me creating the family I’ve fantasizes about.”
YES I DID. I was so glad it happened, too, and at the same time I felt a little weird about how even this story was by a white adoptive parent who felt the need to say, in the article, “I would still adopt” (good? no one said you shouldn’t?). idk, I’d have to read it again to comment further, but it’s like, even a story about Korean adoptees is essentially told via the white perspective/gaze.
The adoptees profiled are amazing, though. And their work can easily be found/read in their own words.
I was so glad to see that article, even to just have another voice in the constant barrage of “Adoption is Great! Love is Forever!” narrative. (But agree with you, I want to hear more from adoptees themselves)
It’s like people’s brains can’t even conceptualize that adoption is anything but perfect love and happy endings. But I struggle with that myself too, the conditioning is strong.
I wrote about race and adoption for The Toast if you are interested!
Oh I know, I loved it even more. 🙂
my eyes skipped directly to the dialogue and I filled in “WMAD” with “White Man At Death” and assumed that the scene was going to end with you murdering him (acceptable end, tbh)
Did you see that post on Reddit that went viral about adopting? This white couple, in San Francisco I think, adopted a baby who appeared to be of Asian descent. They assumed he was Chinese because there are a lot of Chinese people in their community. They raised him to think of himself as Chinese, taught him Chinese history and language, found him friends and aunt/uncle type people in the Chinese community. When their son was 16 the father looked up his birth records and discovered his birth parents’ names were Park and Kim. He’s KOREAN. Oops.
::dies::
So was he adopted stateside? How did they not ask? Ahhhhhhhhhh
I am mixed myself, and I haven’t felt too much recognition while reading most to these comments- horror, mostly, and gratitude that my white relatives limit it to comments like “Your hair is so Asian” (possibly) or “You and [your Chinese husband] are going to have mixed babies!” (they were always going to be mixed, no matter how white I look).
However, this story? So awful. It took me a long time to figure out who I was, and I had two parents who knew who they were and could teach me about my history. That poor, poor boy.
I saw that post! Deleted now. It was both amazing and horrifying. The parents actually tried REALLY hard and did a really good job in raising their son Chinese. Except 16 years ago, the world wasn’t as culturally aware and they weren’t savvy enough to notice and recognize the Korean surnames. Yeah, Hieu, the kid was adopted stateside. It’s weird… what do you say to that revelation? They can’t change the past. They made a really big mistake. They just pulled the rug out under their son. I guess like everything it’s good/bad. Bad – clueless, loss of identity, mistakes. Good – They had good intentions, made a sincere honest effort, plus Chinese is useful. Also, aren’t some Koreans, ethnically Chinese?
Oh my god that story is heartbreaking.
What’s weird is that there are SO MANY Korean adoptees around here. The Chinese/Korean restaurant near my house has fliers advertising social and support groups for Korean adoptees and their families posted in their breezeway! And, like, the internet exists! But no, approaching a stranger in a bar, that’s the ticket.
SOMEHOW STILL TALKING
Just reading it makes me want to gouge my own eyes out; I can’t imagine living it. 🙁
I wonder if this man is the source of “life is a rich tapestry”
I’m simultaneously nodding out of recognition and shaking with rage that other people have to go through this. I’m sure I look like I’m having a seizure.
VENT AWAY it is cathartic
*hugs*
I mean, replace “asian” with “hispanic” and “Mexican” (I’m actually Spanish-Cuban) and you can pretty much attribute all of these to my in-laws, my college friends, assorted white co-workers, and my (white) mother’s family.
There needs to be a bingo card. Is there an “insensitive remarks from well-meaning white people” bingo card?
Things I would never say if I ever have kids with my Korean boyfriend… but then again, I’m Mexican, so they’d probably have a lot more interestingness to deal with from others. OMG… didn’t even think about that. D=
Yeah, I think the reactions from non-white families about their bi- and multiracial members can be very uh.. troublesome.
My reactions to this post:
1. Ugh.
2. Is that BoA? Why isn’t BoA in all the things?
3. Ugh. Park Shin Hye is such a terrible kisser!
Have you seen Park Shin Hye’s most recent drama (Pinocchio)? (not that I’d necessarily recommend it, it may not be to everyone’s taste). Her kissing is markedly improved in that. Although, that could just be my lowered expectations after Heirs.
I swore off PSH after Heirs. I was going give up her shows after Flower Boy Next Door, but Lee Min Ho was too much temptation. I’m looking for a new drama, though, so maybe I’ll give it a shot. But, really. Ugh.
Wow…..
I’m Chinese, and my advisor’s very lovely, very sweet mother said to me (after hearing that I grew up in the US) in her utterly charming British accent, “Oh, is that why your eyes are so large?”
That’s horrible but also so stupid it made me laugh.
I just sort of laughed, because the way she said it was so nice and polite, plus now I have a story I can tell all the other Asians at our Asian meetings about being Asian.
shhhhhhh those meetings are SECRET
OH MY GOD NO
YES, MY EYES WOULD HAVE BEEN MUCH SMALLER BUT YOUR AMERICAN SUN IS SO TINY THAT I HAD TO ADAPT.
Could you pass the flied lice? HA HA HA
I have a sort of internal “nuke it from orbit” meter and, while this week hasn’t been that awful, a few things have made the needle twitch toward the red zone. This is one of them.
ok so this requires a bit of setup but:
item 1: the joke about what do you call a woman who has one leg shorter than the other? Eileen.
item 2: the concept of allophones, the variants of a particular phoneme found in different environments, i.e. between vowels as opposed to at the onset of a word or before a consonant
item 3: the racist version of item 1, ‘what do you call an asian woman…’
item 4: item 1, rewritten: “What do you call a woman who has one leg shorter than the other, if you speak a language where /r/ is an intervocalic allophone for /l/? Irene.”
Rrrar! Big words make Hulk angry! (But it is a clever hack of an old joke.)
As a former linguistics major, I love this joke.
Also that response GIF is the best. Just absolutely the best.
White half of a mixed/interracial/whateveryouwanttocallit family here…I don’t know if I really have a place to rage about white people? But seriously…white people!
…that time we walked into my step-dad’s mother’s house and found a confederate flag hanging over her fireplace…and she waved her hand and made a joke about “the south will rise again”…does anyone know what that actually implies!?? Ugh.
Or when my dad told my wife that he knew she was one of “the good ones” because she went to college.
After ~8 years of distance, my mom and step-dad are moving up here to be close to the grandkids. Man there are gonna be some CONVERSATIONS.
I am Southern and I have a couple ideas what “the south will rise again” means so I will give you my best guess.
1) if the person saying it is super racist, like they are saying it non-ironically, then probably they mean that they want slaves and want Black people to not vote and stuff.
2) If (please let this one be true) they are saying it ironically maybe they mean that Southerners will get our shit together and work towards reparations with the Black community and we’ll actually have an inclusive society? …ok i doubt they mean that.
3) maybe they just mean that they don’t like the North, legit.
She was old and …not “outwardly racist”, so who knows what was truly in her heart of hearts. I think she was uninformed, at minimum.
What I meant by that is that people don’t take the time to understand and know the history behind the statement. She’s passed on now, so I can’t really answer her, but she never seem particularly aware nor sensitive to things like this, as in I’d lay 85% odds that, if we got to talking about the Civil War, she might say something about how it wasn’t about slavery, you know that whole line of nostalgia-over-rose-tinted lenses that large swaths of the (white) population views the pre-civil war south with (which tends to come with a bunch of other baggage…).
Yep, got it. My dad is one of those…he thinks that bc our family was always super poor, Native American, and did not own slaves that means he’s allowed to say racist things about Black people. Im like ok….not how logic works. also why are u nostalgic for a time that was not actually very kind to our folks either?? who knows 🙁
Myths are seductive, I guess?
One thing that I have noticed is that people “on the bottom” to varying degrees often like to find another group to put themselves above, makes them feel like their lot isn’t so bad, maybe?
ah yes, the ‘hierarchy of the downtrodden’, as I call it. You’d think there would be more of a sense of being-in-this-together, united-we-stand-ness amongst people in say (my experience) low wage jobs, but it’s the opposite. I worked in party catering, and we all made the same shitty non-amount of money, and all did the same dumb lugging of plates, when the chips were down, but oh the competition and the one upmanship about who got to work more that week, or at the marginally more prestigeous place…..’t Was an eye opener indeed.
Yes, this! I know what you mean.
I work a job right now where there are two women I have to work with who are consistently snarky, underhanded, mean, and shitty to me and to others. I was being snarky and condescending right back to them for several months.
Finally one day recently I remembered that there is nothing an unjust power system benefits from more than the people at the bottom fighting with each other. Nothing. Except perhaps a common enemy outside the system. When there’s not one, an unjust power system *needs* the people at the bottom to engage in in-fighting. And I was allowing it to make me do that.
I realized these women aren’t by nature hateful people, in their characters. They’re moms and wives and lead arguably decent lives. They’re glued in as cogs in this shitty workplace system I’m bound up in too. And the crap that gets passed down and passed down finally comes out at the end in us low-level people crapping all over each other because there’s no where left to pass it down to.
An unjust power system lovvvvves that. Benefits from it for days. Rolls all in that oook and grins. So my in-fighting with these women was benefiting the very system I thought I was fighting against. I think I walked around for a day shocked at myself and what I let myself become.
Now, my resistance is to refuse to let this dirty workplace system make me hate these women. I was equating their underhanded behavior with who they were in their characters, while writing mine off as them and the environment forcing me to be ugly back to them. Nope. If I give them the same consideration as human beings that I give myself, we’re all just humans stuck in this crappy mess. All of us would rather be at home, loving our families, engaged in life, doing anything other than stuck at work. And suddenly my rage and resentment at them disappeared.
I’m so kind to them now. So genuine and interested and nice. Not because they’re people I have much in common with. I have nothing in common with them besides our workplace. And not because being ‘nice’ makes me more ‘effective’ at ‘getting my workplace goals met.’ It doesn’t. I do it because my kindness and my authenticity are my form of political resistance against a system that wants to produce hatred between us, and I won’t let it. I won’t permit it to. My authenticity is mine, and this crap culture and environment doesn’t have the permission to take it from me and sic me to fight over scraps. I refuse to. My dignity is my resistance.
I don’t know if that helps. But it helps me. There is a difference now in my relationships with all the other peons like me. Others sense I’m not bringing a dog to the fight anymore. Not that I’m a pushover, I’m not. But I’m not going toe to toe over lunchmeat anymore. I’m retaining my dignity, and treating others with dignity, and it’s a different dynamic.
That is such a great, radical, powerful approach. There’s something that my grandfather used to say to me that has always stuck with me, and that’s: “There’s one thing that nobody can take from you, you’d have to give it up yourself, and that’s your dignity.” He was very soft spoken, but absolutely tough as nails. It takes a lot of nerve to stand up against a whole system that wants to wear you down into something petty. You’ve got my respect for drawing the line there.
I watched the “African-American Lives” genealogy show on PBS a few years ago, and one of the things they turned up that surprised me was that some Native American tribes *did* own slaves. Not only that, but a number of them remained enslaved for several years after the Civil War ended (because they weren’t legally considered US citizens). History is complicated…
Yep, you can also look into when the Cherokees kicked out (denied tribal benefits) a bunch of black members (here’s a link: http://amptoons.com/blog/2007/03/04/white-indians… I don’t know if it was ever rescinded or what. Of course the “white” members got to stay). Moral: Everyone is fucking terrible everywhere, all the time.
SIGH.
That was also my take-away.
Agggggghhhhhh! I grew up in Tennessee and was subjected to this ‘It was never about slavery” argument SO MUCH that any hint of it now, just a whiff of it approaching, and I want to scream, grab people, and violently shake them into 2015.
There is so much about willful southern denial that is too demoralizing for words. Especially when it feels like you’re the only person in the room, or in the grocery store, post office, or workplace, who is consistently horrified by it.
When I hear people say things like, “Oh you’re from the South, people there are so nice, so polite, they have such great manners, they made me feel so welcome.” I want to say respond with something like, “Well sleep in their guest bedroom, wake up early in the morning, and listen to what they talk about over breakfast in unguarded moments. You will run screaming as fast as you can, just like I did.”
Eff the confederate flag, specious arguments about states rights, and every other form of southern denial. I’m so glad the south lost the war and the states survived as one country. But it too many ways, the south remains psychologically it’s own weird domain.
It consistently boggles my mind that I see Confederate flags on people’s homes sometimes here *in upstate New York*. (Always in very rural areas, where I suspect that most people’s families have been there for many generations).
Aside from the whole, you know, awfulness and racism the flag represents, I’m always thinking “You dumbasses know your whole town fought for the Union, right?”
As a kid I think I may have seen them in rural California as well and just never tuned in on it. As an educated (mostly self-educated when it comes to US history) adult I want to say I’m amazed at the ignorance of others…but I’m not. Knowledge is hard work. Self correction is hard. Admitting you are or have been ignorant is hard. People like easy.
I was ignorant for a long time. I try not to be now. It’s hard work.
a fun little twist on that last one —
“don’t worry, we think of you as white!”
The kicker is, of course, that it was kindly meant by someone who loves me very much and who tries his best and who has literally always been in my corner.
I’m mixed, and I certainly wouldn’t change that for anything, but I really wish the people who love me and who I love could just… be cool about it.
<3 It’s very tough when it’s your family, and you love them and know they love you, and still you have to figure out how to challenge these things (or not, and then have feelings about that decision, too).
I remember once in high school English class, we were a playing a questions game and the teacher asked, “If you could be someone else for a day, who would you be?” My class salutatorian answered “I’d want to be an Asian person because I’ve always wondered what things look like through their eyes”.
…Did s/he mean s/he wanted to know what it’s like to live in Asia, or what it’s like to be an Asian person in our society, or that Asians see the world differently because they’re alien life forms???
Yeah no, she meant that she thinks the world literally looks different through eyes that are a different shape than hers.
Like… literally “through eyes with differently shaped lids??”
Yes.
http://imgur.com/NmPXSo4 – my response.
I have had kids ask me in grade school if it was harder to see or whatever, but they were children. A HS salutatorian? SMH.
No white relatives, but I did date white people, and this was a fave:
“my dad made clear to me that he doesn’t have any problem with your nationality / race”
Ooh I defintiely got “Don’t mention you’re Hispanic!” once as a desperate whisper as I was stepping into a boyfriend’s parents’ house.
That relationship lasted about 12 hours after that.
I had an ex who, minutes before introducing me to his father, said, “He should like you, you don’t look THAT Jewish.”
…yay?
As a variation on “Asian Princess,” my (very white) mother likes to tell me (hapa) how I looked just like a little China doll as a baby. I asked her not to say that, and her response was along the lines of “but you WERE, you were so cute, just like a little China doll! Everyone said so!” Sigh. Now she’s generally reverted to “I know you don’t like it when I say this, but you really were just like a little China doll.”
“I know you don’t like it, but…” Who does that! I am incensed on your behalf.
WHY WOULD YOU EVER COMPLETE SUCH A SENTENCE?!?
“Hmm, I have this thing in my brain, and I want to say it, but I know it’s something that my current company has explicitly requested I not say. Perhaps if I just find the proper preface…”
Also: white people!
Moms Completely Missing the Point in Western Art History
Moms Not Understanding That Marrying a Chinese Man Does Not Automatically Make You Not Racist
A guy who had a crush on me once told me I looked like a china doll, but he meant a porcelain doll. Probably just because I’m so pale. (But I’m not Asian, so he wouldn’t have meant a doll from China.)
Yeah, we call porcelain dolls “china dolls” in Australia (as in the material, not the country), so I was really confused about why that was problematic for a second.
China dolls are porcelain dolls here, too! BUT some people still use the term when referring to Asian women. :/
“No offense but…” UGH. It’s always the BUTtheads. Sorry your mom disrespects you like that. We can’t choose our family…though I guess in this case they sort of chose us.
“I married an Asian because someone told me that yellow people would inherit the earth.”
What. The. Actual. Fuck. Did s/he tell that to his/her Asian spouse before they wed?
Yesterday in class (continuing ed for adults) people were chatting about the new Star Wars trailer and complaining about a black man being cast as a Stormtrooper. (To which, seriously?) Then someone said “maybe they thought the Empire needed a Stormtrooper who can jump!”. I called it out as racist but the instructor just said “I’m not getting involved in that.” I’m sure the black students in the class appreciated that.
*pushes up her glasses*
The thing about a black man being a Stormtrooper is that they were all clones of a white guy.
So he’s OBVIOUSLY one of the heroes in disguise.
Clones of a Maori guy! Not a whitey 🙂 Temuera Morrison is polynesian (and awesome)
I actually slept through most of episodes 1-3, so you may now take away my nerd card.
Hey, I don’t think he’d mind if people forgot his involvement in that shit-show.
I’ve only seen the bits he was in (I sound like way too much of a fan, but I like hearing the NZ accent on screen) and kind of slept through the rest. Just seemed an important clarification about the army of storm troopers since they were being kicked for their lack of diversity!
If you like the accent, give the Clone Wars cartoon series a look-see. It does a lot more with the clones as individuals and the accent is *everywhere* in that show.
And, given the time period since the end of the Clone Wars, it’s entirely possible that the Stormtrooper ranks have been diversified. So to speak.
*also pushes up glasses* Yes, it’s canonical that the cloning program didn’t last terribly long and by the time of the original trilogy Stormtroopers were recruits and draftees, not clones.
Pacific Islanders are also people who exist.
My sister and I are second gen mixed. SO many clangers. “Well I think we should all vote BNP myself!” (The most white supremacist political party going in the UK). Thanks cousin. But the best have been from guys I’ve just met: “I thought your surname would be Dopolopolou or sumfing” / “Aah but I can still hear a bit of an accent in there!” while making pointy finger circles in my direction / “So what makes you a bit foreign-looking then?” / “What’s it like being… interesting?” / and of course, “No, where are you REALLY from?”
Idiots.
A couple of others that I hear:
“You speak English good;”
“You’re practically white anyway, so don’t take offense;”
“So where are you REALLY from?”
“What’s your REAL name”
and, of course, “isn’t your penis really small?”
http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/58407773.jpg
“You know I don’t see you as Asian”
ARGGGGH, the unfortunate implications of whiteness as a prerequisite to personhood.
Please correct me if I’m wrong, but I’ve always read that as (the still stupid & insensitive)
‘without the things that I think make asians different than me.’ ?
In my experience, of having friends say it to me about my own particular ethnicity and presentation it dos have that valence of “I don’t think of you as different from me.” Which is insulting, because yes, my experiences are different because of my background. And it’s dismissive to say otherwise.
But also and even more insidious is the implication that I think @badmuthahydra was driving at, which is “I think of X people as some mix of stereotypes and otherness, whereas you seem like … an actual person.” And that’s in there too. Even if they’re trying to say, “You don’t seem that different to me.” What it feels like is, “I don’t know any other people like you well enough to think of them as anything but an undistinguished mass. You’re special though.” It’s pretty insulting.
Add to the mix, haha, that many people who have mixed heritage get that comment a lot to mean, “You are not enough like the others for me to consider you one of them.” Which is … in no way a compliment.
So it’s got a lot of layers, none of which are pretty.
Yes to all of this.
Sure, the internment of Japanese Americans was pretty bad, but hindsight is 20/20 and we were AT WAR.
Notably, not with Japanese-Americans. Just throwing that out there.
… and neither Italian- nor German-Americans got the same treatment.
But Italian-Canadians (some in my own home town) and German-Canadians did. Not our proudest moment.
Well, there were a few thousand Italian- and German-Americans interned during the war, but it wasn’t done on nearly the same scale. They were a relatively small fraction of the internees.
I have an acquaintance who refers to his 13 year old, adopted Chinese daughter as “My Little Communist” pretty much any time he mentions her on Facebook (sometimes, in the absence of saying her actual name at all). I cringe every time. And all the white people he’s friends with are just, like, “LOL COMMUNIST! HA!”
WHAT
A BOUNTY ON THIS MAN’S HEAD
Seriously! WTF.
Quite a lot of these do sound pretty familiar, though not being related to white people, I heard some of the similar stuff from friends and acquaintances.
By the way, ‘oriental’ is not unacceptable in England. See for example SOAS (School of Oriental and African Studies). It’s a bit old-fashioned but it’s not considered a slur/ definitely racially problematic in the same way as it is in the US.
Hmmm. I mean, I have been to the “Oriental Market” in my old town. But “Oriental” when referring to people is different. And sometimes names like that hang on because it’s “tradition”/a bother changing them — but if the same school were to be founded today, I think they’d proooobably go with “School of Asian and African Studies,” right?
Probably ‘East Asian and African Studies’. The word ‘Asian’ on its own in the UK usually refers to Indian/ Pakistani / Bangladeshi and not to Chinese / Japanese / Korean. I wouldn’t describe myself as a British Asian for example because it gives the wrong impression — which is partly why ‘Oriental’ is still used I guess. SOAS is a very progressive radical-left university and they would probably have changed their name if it had become unacceptable.
I am British-Japanese and I’m not just saying it’s more acceptable for the hell of it; people do use it and it’s generally not considered offensive even when used for people. I don’t find it offensive if said over here. I expect though that this will start to change in the UK since we tend to adopt American ideas of what is the correct terminology. (E.g. – People/person of Colour is definitely an Americanism but I’ve seen it being increasingly used here.)
I believe in the UK the word ‘Asian’ was also ‘invented’ to make sure you wouldn’t call a person from Pakistan Indian and vice versa? What with all the uhm, non-sympathy between these countries?
OH MAN, I just started to post disagreeing with you, and then scrolled down and realised you’re British Japanese yourself and now the comments are being screwy and IntenseDebate had been claiming it’s posting the comment without it actually appearing, so if I totally just white-splained you I apologise,
I feel like this is proving more controversial than I intended. Just to clarify in case this wasn’t clear:
1) I myself am British-Japanese
2) That the word is less taboo in the UK is an observation. I’m not suggesting this is better, or that it’s stupid of Americans to think it’s offensive. I think neither of these things.
I think we all got that, but thank you for clarifying!
Last night a man was arguing with me about this on Twitter and saying it’s all cool because his Asian wife doesn’t mind the term and it’s not like it’s internment. I do not think you are of his ilk! Finding the discussion here very interesting. Even in the U.S., where there has been a strong shift away from “Oriental,” there are plenty of Asians — esp. older ones — who don’t register it as offensive/don’t care. Obviously, a term does not need to offend 100% of the people to warrant shifting away from its general use. But of course it’s also not going to bother everyone the same way. And there are degrees, right — if someone calls me “Oriental,” I’ll think “this person is kinda ignorant/behind the times” and correct them. If someone calls me a gook, there’s nothing to correct; they know that term is not okay and my choices are fight or walk away.
Oh my god, it’s like a white person saying, “Oh, I got the okay from my black friend, I can say the n-word.” Jesus. Just… no. Makes me want to take a flamethrower to the internet.
REGARDLESS, though, what I think Noah and I object to — and why that “Can I still say Oriental” remark made the list — is the notion that Asians should be expected to explain why a derogatory term is derogatory to white people generally or their own family members specifically.
I’m not really sure what you’re disregarding here? Of course I agree we shouldn’t be expected to explain that a term is not okay and why or justify why it makes us uncomfortable. And I never said (and certainly don’t think) that it shouldn’t be on the list! (I think it’s a great list!– well great in a manner of speaking obviously. It’s also a horrible list!) All I said was that the word has a less toxic status here in the UK than in the US — I don’t think this undermines your point that it’s unacceptable in the US. It just that sometimes things are different in different countries. I think for me, if I lived in the US, I would find it offensive because it means that whoever is saying it can’t be bothered to keep up with the right terminology, since they don’t care about my or other Asians’ feelings. While here, for me, I personally feel it does not hold that same charge. However things are changing and I might feel differently in 5 or 10 years! And I agree, (responding to comment below) that if an increasing number of people find it offensive, then that is reason enough to hurry the shift.
Um, I wasn’t disregarding anything, I was just explaining why that particular comment was on our list even though (and this we agree about) “Oriental” is not a universally reviled term. And trying to make the point that even if a term is not universally reviled, that doesn’t mean we should have to explain it to all comers, particularly in what should be safe spaces in our families. I wasn’t saying that to argue with you. I was just saying it to SAY IT.
We don’t have a problem. If I didn’t like your comments or thought you were crossing a line, I wouldn’t discuss it, I’d just delete them, since I work here.
Since you said ‘REGARDLESS’ (and seemed to sort of disagree in other comments) I thought you were disregarding something I said, which confused me precisely because you don’t seem to be doing so in your comment, but just making a related point. I wasn’t trying to start an argument — I was just wondering what you meant by that word since I wasn’t sure and it was emphatic enough to be put in capitals.
My mother, after I told her about this guy I’m interested in (a super-smart, kind, law student who nerds out about words like I do. He’s also Chinese.):
Mom, out of curiosity: “Is he full Asian?”
Me, after a confused pause: “His parents are both Asian and immigrated here, if that’s what you’re asking.”
Me, in the fantasy version of this convo: “It depends, are you asking before or after a really big meal?”
(I just. I don’t know how to deal with weirdly-phrased lingo that sounds racist, even if she means well and honestly is *fine* with the idea of me dating an Asian guy?)
It’s good she has no problem with it and means well! My personal opinion is that it’s always good for white people to educate their family members before POC have to do it.
Mmm that makes a lot of sense. Haha, I can definitely do that. I’m already the “nope! don’t say that!,” person in the house, this will just be another layer of it, if this relationship happens (which I am kind of really really hoping it will.)
Yes, my parents are far more interested in whether or not a guy ticks all the “responsible, goal-oriented, good beliefs” boxes (which he does,) so I’m grateful for that.
I'm Filipino, but my white friends used to say "AH, Sudoku, vewwy cha-wren-jing."
My mother-in-law, who called me a “Heinz 57” because my ancestors came from more than one country, asked if my daughter “squats like that because she’s Asian?” She also continually gives my daughters Chinese and Japanese items, even though they do not have either heritage. She also asked if I thought Mongoloid children were called that because they look Mongolian- a heritage my daughters do share. Thanks Nana!
No.
Nooo.
NOOOOOO.
You should be glad you were raised in a country that values girls.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA yes because people in this country value women soooooooo much.
I KNOOOOOW I always lose it when people say that to me
I’m a white girl, my significant other is Chinese-American. I explained that his last name meant “yellow” in Cantonese to someone. She said: “So when you have kids, can I come over and see the yellow baby?”
Man next time someone pulls that on you, you can say “No, we’d never let you around our children.”
Ex-boyfriend’s mom: “The nice thing about you is that even though you’re Asian you don’t look Asian.”
Oh, god. I’m so sorry. I would full support a system wherein some people need to submit their comments to a board who would review them for basic human decency before they are allowed to say anything. I’d happily be on that board and revoke her right to all future small talk. In perpetuity.
I’d back you up on that.
Ex-boyfriend's mom: "The nice thing about you is that even though you're Asian you don't look Asian."
“Tell me the truth — do you guys feel superior to white people?”
“Well, just the one at the moment”
My coworker is French. He was born and raised in Paris.
He is also nearly seven feet tall and very very black. He’s one of the nicest people I know. One day I asked him if he was tired of people asking him where he is from all the time. He said “I just want to talk about football, but everyone wants to know where I’m from. Then they look at me like I’m stupid and they say ‘No, where are you *really* from?'”
I feel so bad for him and I’m also in awe of how fucking polite he is to these people.
“I just want to talk about football,”
I think my heart just melted. AWWWWWWWWWWW geez get it together America, of all places we ought to be somewhere people can just, like, TALK ABOUT FOOTBALL.
Yeah, but, honestly… then they’d have to get into “American football” vs “futbol”, and that’s just awkward. So much safer to talk about “where he’s from”.
Oh, he definitely means “futbol,” he is a real soccer nut that guy.
And that’s pretty much the point. Most folk find your “curiosity” and “jokes” lame but are far too well mannered to say so. To think that white people (esp the British in my experience) think they invented etiquette and manners.
I agree it's old-fashioned but I don't find it offensive and neither do a few of my friends who are East Asian. (I don't know about all my friends' views.) Yes I think it does depend on the person but I really don't think it's at all in the same category as 'coloured'! I think that's considered totally and utterly unacceptable here, while in my experience the word 'oriental' is just not nearly as taboo here as it is in the U.S.
Ah I see perhaps I was assuming too much from the SOAS student body about the SOAS management!
I'm really starting to see how it varies, because the white people I was around most definitely threw 'coloured' around as if it were the neutral term for a non-white person.
I think I should clarify, since it seems to be a sticking point, that I am aware that Oriental is more acceptable here than in the US. It doesn't change the fact I don't like it and find it offensive and personally do not prefer that word, and it doesn't change the fact there is a shift away from it in certain contexts.
I am not saying anyone else should be more or less offended by it than me. It doesn't fall under my purview.
Gosh that's interesting – I'd never have thought people of our sort of generation would grow up hearing the word 'coloured'! Yeah I did get the impression that there is an increasing shift away from the word 'Oriental' here as well, partly for the same reasons that it's now unacceptable in US and partly *because* it is unacceptable in the US. It seems how far the shift has gone can vary quite a bit more than I thought!
I was once asked if Asians used chopsticks because we had never learnt to use knives and forks throughout history, so. Yeah. I mean we just never had table manners I guess.
I mean, I already knew people were stupid, but it still boggles my mind sometimes… (shakes head in disbelief)
You are better people than me if you manage to resist kicking all of these folks in the shins.
The only retort to stupidity is to say, point blank: “That is a really rude/stupid thing to say. I truly thought you were more thoughtful than that.” And then brace yourself. And repeat. (If you must, you can say “I love you. And: That is a really rude/stupid thing to say…”
Lord knows I love my dad, but he did ask me, “Wait, you consider yourself Hispanic?” a few months ago. Thanks for noticing, Dad.
Terrible truth about this guy: His 7yo Korean-born adopted son might really benefit from one of the half-dozen summer camps held all over North America to help the child cope with having parents who are apparently dopes in addition to suffering from the tunnel vision of being white, straight, healthy, thin, Christians. (Nothing wrong with being all those things, but IME adoptive parents of Korean children are remarkably clueless about the fact that, um, those are the requirements to get into the class so no one in the class ever says anything they didn’t already know…)
It’s beyond obvious that WMAD and his wife (no, I’m not making assumptions, those are literally the rules of adoption a Korean child, don’t take it up with me, take it up with Seoul)) would ALSO benefit from some adult adoptees to answer their questions. In a setting in which they are both trained/qualified/have opted in, and literally getting paid, to provide that insight.
FFS, ‘Glee’ featured culture camp. In their first season. Come on people. I know ‘Cambodian Culture Camp’ sounds like something the UN intervened to stop, at first glance, but it’s actually a cool thing for clueless white parents.
Cry-laughing with amusement-rage.
as a white sister to Korean brothers, I am cringing all the way through this. I hope to heaven I was never enough of a jerk to say anything remotely like what you were subjected to, but as a younger and more ignorant person…I may have. Yikes.
Half Korean, white here. The vast majority of my white relatives are pretty cool, so for the most part I do not have much trouble. There are a couple that stick in my mind, though. My white mom has, throughout our lives, told my sister and I how beautifully exotic our mixed heritage has made us. Even as adults, she still does this, and bugs me a little, though I know she means no harm. The next one ranks up with some of the most upsetting things I’ve ever heard, from someone in the extended family: “Look, I’m not trying to be racist here, but I just think that different races shouldn’t mix.” Luckily he’s not long for this world, but I still think about this one, even so many years later. It’s bad enough that my parents, as an interracial couple, had to hear this, but can you imagine saying this kind of thing in the presence of mixed kids?
I CANNOT. I’m so sorry you heard that.
My brother is Korean and he always dates girls who think he is so “exotic” and it really pisses me off. I hate that word. You just mean different, just say it. I know they mean it as a compliment but it’s just exoticizing us. The worst part is my brother is adopted too (like me), so he’s like, the FARTHEST thing from “exotic” in my eyes.
Oh dear, that is concerning since a UK move is still very much on the table, although there hasn't been any progress in company bureaucracy land, so it could be that we won't know until next quarter. Sigh.
A former neighbor’s mother and our family, as we were heading out, bumped heads at the front yard. “So,” she asked right out of the starting gate, “are you people Hmong or Cambodian?” Of all the retorts that I thought of later to say (don’t you hate that?), I just said, “No, we are Chinese.” She was probably trying to show that she’s aware of the different Asian heritages, but…, FAIL!
Also, my god. That person's poor Asian wife wife/husband. D:
My dad was so excited that he would have a grandbaby with “hybrid vigor,” (that is, half white, half Chinese — mixed genes!). I explained that my husband and I are actually the same species.
In the hospital after having said baby with a bit of jaundice, the nurse said, “Well, he does have some yellow in him already.”
On a somewhat related note, I’m annoyed that when I say my husband is Chinese American people think he’s half white. American doesn’t equal white! He’s all Chinese and all American! Where is he from? The far off land to the East — Illinois!
Oh, that reminds me, continuing the story of said baby, when we were filling out a form in the doctor’s office a nosy lady in the waiting room told us to put “Amerasian” for his race. I about shoved the pen up her nose.
My particular state-rage bugaboo with those horrible flags is West Virginia. I can't get past the fact that they seceded from Virginia to stay in the Union! Like, does that not mean they ought to be the Union-est of Union states? And yet, the awful flags.