I love being a librarian. Every day is different, and I enjoy helping people with their plans and projects. But with the job also comes a number of questions I cannot answer, or would simply prefer not to get. While you might imagine you can ask your local librarian anything, there may be times when they simply won’t have a ready response for you.
Here is just a sampling of the strange questions my colleagues and I have fielded at our local library:
Do you happen to have a baby picture of Andrew Jackson?
What’s the weather going to be like in Nashville five months from today?
Does this look infected to you?
EMERGENCY: Do you know a recipe for eggplant parmesan?
Why did you get rid of all of the books on Christianity?
Where do you keep your adult films?
Are you single?
How do I make this food less spicy?
Will you fill out my taxes for me? WHY NOT?
It’s getting dark so much earlier lately — is there something wrong with the sun?
I’m learning about cloning. Can I have a piece of your fingernail?
Can you help me find some examples of baseball cards from Roman times?
Does the snake in this photo look poisonous to you?
Do you guys have any books on how to start an escort service?
Do you have a “Notary Republic” here?
Do you know if there are insects in human urine?
Can you find me a picture of a flying car from the future? You know, like a real photo, not a drawing or whatever?
Are you sure you’re not single?
Do you happen to know if your audiobook cases have polyethylene glycol in them?
Did a blonde lady just come in here?
Can you tell me the nutritional value of acorns?
Can you buy dogs at this library?
Who is the woman my son is sending money to in Las Vegas?
WHAT DID YOU DO TO YAHOO!???
My five-year-old is very advanced; should she read young adult novels?
Do you have a recent picture of Jesus Christ?
How many dimples are on a golf ball, exactly?
There’s a Jackie Wilson song with the word “repeat” in it. What song is it??
[holds up a leaf] Can you tell me what tree this is from?
What do you mean I can’t use my toaster in the library?
So you really aren’t single, then?
Tags: librarians, libraries, natalie larocque, questions, work
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You forgot the most common: what’s my email password?
Followed by, what are the answers to my security questions?
OMG yes. Not a weird question, but one of the most frequently asked for sure!
Also where’s the bathroom?
And when it’s been forgotten & must be reset, “What should my password be?”
How do I log in?
(Asked when they had their username and password already entered)
(…into the catalog search box on the library’s website)
::while staring at the library’s website, open in the browser::
How do I get to the internet?
Questions your academic librarian will not be answering for you:
– Will you format my citations for me? In CSE.
– I need to know about the binomial organic macrostructure of intense mitrochondrial radical rhizomites. What do you know about them?
– Can you get my accepted to this university?
Questions your MLIS student/university library research assistant will not be answering for you:
– What do you know about the differences between Milton’s portrayal of Lucifer in book 1 and book 4 of Paradise Lost?
– Can you correct my essay for me?
– Uh, do you realize you are oppressing my civil rights by demanding that I provide personal identification to you? (said when I requested his student ID before letting him into the graduate students’ reading room, to make sure he was actually a graduate student)
I get far too many “do my homework for me” questions even at the public library from people who are in college. I would never have had the patience to deal with it in a university setting 🙁
When I sat out on the desk at the university I work at, I got really good at misunderstanding the heavily implied “do my homework for me” meaning and chirping out “Let me show you how to find the information you need!” *type type type* “Great! You’re all set! Come back and talk to me if you run into any more problems finding it!”
We had a student once who claimed we were denying him a learning opportunity by insisting that he pay his fines. Our circulation supervisor, who is nobody’s fool, informed him that no, he was learning the value of returning his books on time.
An ex of mine worked at a university library where there were in fact no official fines levied. However, THEY levied fines, because of the exact reason above. Also, they got to have a slap-up end-of-year meal for the entire team on the proceeds.
I always wonder what exactly patrons are thinking when they essentially ask you to give a complete answer to a question in a *very* specialized field. I mean, I *am* a librarian but I don’t specialize in EVERYTHING.
I freely admit that I’m not an expert in anything but 3rd-6th Century Roman military campaigns, which is – don’t be shocked – USELESS at a university that only has a Classics minor.
But it would be lovely to answer every question within that context. At length.
Can you tell me if this is a scholarly resource? *links to a tin foil hat conspiracy site that fails every single indicator of information quality*
also: “Why don’t you have textbooks for every single class I’m taking?” or “Can you help me? The photocopier ran out of ink three quarters of the way through copying this entire copyrighted book.”
AHHHHHHH you must have met my student from two semesters ago!
“I bought the book online and it hasn’t showed up yet. Please scan the entire (copyrighted, obviously) textbook and email it to me.”
lol no
336
Can you buy DOGS at this library? WHAT.
I bet there are some libraries that do adoption days in partnership with their local animal rescue.
I once walked into a bookstore that had partnered with their local humane society and was full of cats for adoption.
It was brilliant.
Ooh, I would be backing the hell out of there. Stupid cat allergies. (sniff)
I know, usually you can only borrow them.
What is with the “I’ll come back when a ‘real’ librarian is here” thing? A) I am a real librarian and b) no one else here knows your AOL password, either.
Listen, sir, NOBODY wants to know your AOL passoword. Your email inbox has 3495 unread items and ALL of them are chain mails of the most paranoid and ill-informed variety.
right? let me help you set up a gmail account. I WILL SPEND THE REST OF MY LIFE HELPING YOU SET UP A GMAIL ACCOUNT WHY ARE YOU INSISTING ON AOL?!
I had one patron who never believed anything I would say to her, and would need the information confirmed by any other staff member in the building who was not me.
Yep, daily because I’m a young woman.
At my previous job in an architecture library, I had one graduate student who wouldn’t believe anything I said, up to and including the correct Italian pronunciation of “Doge.” Somehow, during the course of that conversation, it also came out that I had a master’s degree in anthropology and museum studies, and he said “Ohhh, you’re educated!” and then accepted that I knew how to pronounce “doge.”
WHAT THAT HAS TO DO WITH ITALIAN PRONUNCIATION I DON’T KNOW.
This is a good opportunity to point to Microaggressions in Libraries. What you experienced is part of a huge problem in our highly stereotyped profession!
pretty sure i just came in my pants. i did not know this existed. I am also a fan of http://iworkatapubliclibrary.com/
How do I make this food less spicy?
Add yogurt or sour cream.
Does the snake in this photo look poisonous to you?
Add yogurt or sour cream.
[holds up a leaf] Can you tell me what tree this is from?
Add yogurt or sour cream.
Does this look infected to you?
Add yogurt or sour cream.
How do I get to the internet?
Add yogurt or sour cream.
The Jackie WIlson song is probably “Reet Petite”.
There are usually between 300 and 500 dimple on a golf ball, depending on the brand and type.
Why don’t you have a copy of All The Light We Cannot See/The Goldfinch/Go Set A Watchman/The Martian? You’re supposed to have all the books!
What do you mean you don’t have 7 copies for me to distribute to my book group??
My book group is reading The Handmaid’s Tale, I need it today, I have to have it read by Sunday.
(No matter how many copies we have, we always have a holds to books ratio of 4:1)
Very end of August: What do you mean you don’t have any copies of this book? The teacher said it would be at the library, and my child NEEDS it for their summer reading assignment! Bonus points if the book is out of print or was assigned to every public school student in the city.
I only worked in a library for one summer, but the parents coming in to choose their kids’ summer reading books were EVERYWHERE. No kids in sight, mind you, and also no idea of what their kid might actually enjoy reading from the approved list…
The very first thing I did in my new position as a children’s librarian was contact all the local elementary librarians and ask for the school summer reading lists. I got lucky, the entire district is working from the same list– I was able to get it and send copies to every other children’s librarian in our system. Of course, some of the teachers still send home lists that are 50% out of print, but at least I have some of my bases covered.
Why is this book ebook only? Don’t you have a paper copies of all the ebooks and ebooks of all the paper copies?!
Well, can’t you just print out the ebook?
“Why don’t you have copies of all the textbooks used in every class on campus?”
I can’t believe the number of students each semester who think they’re the first person to come up with the idea of checking their textbooks out of the library instead of buying them. And then we get to educate them on different editions, and the fact that even if we own the correct edition, it’s probably already been checked by a classmate who got to the library a little earlier. (All hail the professors who put them on two- or four-hour reserve so we don’t have to field complaints that the book isn’t due back for another two weeks!)
Yes to putting books on 2-hour reserve. I always do that, because when I was a student my library didn’t offer that and I would have really liked to have eaten more those semesters rather than spending all my money on textbook.
YES. Most of my professors told the library what textbooks were assigned and the school had multiple copies on 2-4 hour reserve. It was a small college, which helped. We also had a “don’t ask don’t tell” policy with the photocopier…
“I need a ranking of countries by ethics.”
Had no useful answer to the question “what do you mean by ‘ethics’?” Was completely incredulous that such a ‘ranking’ would not be definitive, but rather highly subjective.
Did the person have “ethics” confused with “ethnicity?”
You generally can’t buy ANYTHING at the library, let alone dogs. If you could check out dogs for a couple hours, though, that would be awesome. (I know some shelters accept volunteer walkers, but no, I want to properly check it out with my library card, running the dog’s nose over the self-scanner.)
“I’m sorry, these are reference dogs. I can’t let you check them out.”
“Now, your professor did put a couple of dogs on reserve at the library, but you can check them out for a maximum of 2 hours. If you’re late, that’s a $25 fee.”
There’s actually a cat ‘lending library’ in New Mexico. It’s a pretty cool idea.
Our library here opened up a cafe and I admit I side-eye it SO HARD when I have to walk through it because it’s right at the front and there is no way to avoid it. I am old and cranky and I have Certain Feelings about food and drink near all those books.
Yeah, there’s a small cafe on the first floor of our library… therefore (?) you can eat ANYTHING ANYWHERE in the library. 🙁 Do not like. And yes, of course, this is totally abused.
D: D: D:
i came from a family that treated libraries as religious shrines: NO talking, NO eating or drinking, NO making of any noise at all if at all possible, for let us all bask only in the glory of the whsh, whsh, whsh of pages turning.
Sometimes I still go to the library as an excursion. I don’t want to borrow anything (I’m a slow reader) but going to the library on a sunny saturday is still BLISS
Years back we ran a survey about the library. I will always treasure the respondent who complained about how dirty the keyboards in the computer lab were, and replied to the very next question that their favorite thing about the library was that they were allowed to take food and drink everywhere. HELLO!
I have to admit I appreciate the easing on liquid restrictions in reading rooms from earlier days, but the other day I saw a guy bust out a sandwich–wrapped in crinkly foil, no less–and start noshing. DO YOU *WANT* BUGS IN THE BOOKS, BUDDY.
This entire string of replies has made me SO HAPPY I pitched the reference question list. Bahahaha!
*cough*
We have therapy dogs come in during finals. The students can’t actually check them out, but it’s the next best thing!
I work at a university research library (I’m not actually a librarian myself) and people are constantly thinking it is a public library. “What do you mean I can’t just walk in off the street and use a computer?” “My tax dollars pay for this!!!” (private university, so no. They don’t)
I work at a government library and I get the same thing. “What do you mean I can’t borrow this book? My tax dollars paid for it!” Well, we don’t loan items directly to non-employees, but you can go to your local public library and request an interlibrary lo– “That would take too long! I need it now!” Well that’s too bad.
Luckily, the feds have been destroying all the libraries and books; so this shouldn’t be a problem for too much longer.
Medical library, and it’s “But I’ve been a patient here before.” HIPAA won’t let me confirm my suspicion that it was an emergency department visit for something Darwinesque.
I have the exact opposite problem. I work at a public library in a town with a large state university, which has quite an extensive library of its own. As a result, our nonfiction collection focuses more on popular materials, since local residents can get a guest card for the university library for more academic titles. But so many people, INCLUDING STUDENTS AT THE UNIVERSITY, come see us with requests that would be much better suited for the huge university library just one block away. Also, they all want to check out their text books, and are shocked that not only do we not maintain a large textbook collection, what we do have still only checks out for three weeks like usual, and no they can’t have it for the whole semester.
Meanwhile, over at the large state university library, students complain that everyday ordinary people can just walk in when they like, as if their taxes paid for it. Which they DID. Arrrragghsldk’fhjsdl’
actually, most state governments have vastly reduced the amount of support they give their state universities, so tax dollars fund a much smaller percentage of operations than they used to.
Most state university libraries I know of allow anyone to use their items on the premises, but not check them out.
There was this book, and I can’t remember where it was or who it was by or what it was called, but it was blue. Do you have that?
I work for an academic press and exhibit at a lot of conferences, and I REGULARLY have people come and tell me that they think they published a book with us but they’re not sure, and no, they don’t remember the title of the book or their editor’s name or what the cover looks like or what year it was published, but do we have it on display?
MrChouffe used to run a bookstore. This came up a lot.
Yeah, when I worked at a bookstore I got a lot of “Do you have that book? With the green cover? I think it takes place in Canada?”
And I’d say, “Um. I’m…not sure. Do you remember anything else about it?” and they’d just repeat, “It had a GREEN cover!” with increasing vehemence.
Probably Alice Munro. I mean, maybe.
You’d think so, but this guy looked like an All Updike, All the Time sort.
By which I mean an asshole.
that made me laugh out loud
Same here!
I used to work somewhere with a bookstore and the amazing amazing people who ran it would actually often FIND the book the idiot walking in was talking about. It was almost never the colour they thought it was.
The greatest thing we have on our patron accounts is a feature (if your library has Bibliocommons for their catalog interface, turn this on!) called Recently Returned, and it lists everything the patron has returned in the last year. It’s saved my ass so many times.
I wish we had that! I get “What was that book I checked out last year/month/week?” All the time. How would I know, bro??
The best part is when you actually find it.
My proudest moment: a child asked for The BOOK. With the EYES, and I identified it as Go Away, Big Green Monster in less than two minutes.
I love that book!
IT’S ALWAYS BLUE.
We did that for a display. It was brilliant. Very blue.
I used to work in a bookstore and we got that, frequently. And, fairly often, could figure it out. ( at the time it was usually The Lovely Bones.)
“This sounds made up.”
Where’s the nonfiction?
Hee hee, recent picture of Jesus. I work in a film archive and do research requests for clients and in the last month have gotten requests for footage of:
American Civil War
Ancient Persia
Battle of Trafalgar
Memorial Service for Louis XIV
Samurai (not re-enactors)
I would also like to point out that two of these were requests from my OWN MARKETING DEPARTMENT.
Which onnnnneeeeeessssss???? I mean, don’t actually answer that, it might jeopardize your job.
Haha! It’s ok, I think my email response to them would have jeopardised it if anything was going to.
Louis XIV and Battle of Trafalgar. I mean. Guys. You work for a media company.
This concerns me. Of course, I do know a guy who was very surprised when I told him they didn’t have electricity during the U.S. Civil War.
You just hit my big red pedant button: they had electricity, since telegraphy was of strategic importance in the Civil War. They didn’t have a lot of other strategic or commercial applications for it for another decade or so.
Oooh, good point! Of course he was thinking more electric lights and such, which wasn’t a normal household thing til… when? The 1910s or 20s?
My sister got a request for a photograph of Cleopatra. Person would not take “No such thing exists” as an answer. Finally, out of frustration, she linked her to a photograph of Liz Taylor playing Cleopatra, but she still feels a little bit bad about that.
Don’t. Same thing happened to me when I worked at a public library, and I did the exact same thing.
PLEASE tell me the response to ‘recent picture of Jesus Christ’ was to do a google image search for ‘arabic man’. HISTORICALLY ACCURATE JESUS, YOU ARE WELCOME
I still remember the patron who was convinced that mermaids were real, he’d seen a special on TV about it. The only thing that changed his mind was the Wikipedia entry. Not me explaining they were mythical, not me showing him pictures of manatees and dugongs and explaining them as possible origins, but fucking WIkipedia.
I weep for the future.
On the flip side, I had a friend who only found out in university that narwhals were real. He thought another friend had made them up just to prank him. “It looks like a cross between a beluga and a seal, but it has a giant spiraling horn coming out of the middle of its forehead? And the horn is actually a tooth? Yeah right, how stupid do you think I am?”
I’m with your friend. That just sounds ridiculous.
I did not know salamanders were real until I came to Canada at the age of 16. Until then I thought they were exclusively mythical beasts who live in fire. “There were salamanders in my back yard!”, said an excited Canadian friend. “Pshaw!”, said I, rolling my immigrant eyes, “There are *fairies* at the bottom of *my* garden!”
Canada: come for the health care, stay for the salamanders.
When I was 12, I moved from the midwest to the northwest. I said something to a friend of mine about missing fireflies.
“What?”
“Fireflies. Lightning bugs? I miss them.”
“Fireflies?”
“Fireflies. They’re like… flying bugs at night… in the summer. And their butts light up. Fireflies.”
Sure, now she’s a grown woman living in California now, but I like to believe she still thinks I was making it up.
What? No fireflies there? How sad!
If my life were a novel, the loss of fireflies from my summers that year on the brink of adolescence would probably be a metaphor for something.
I had a similar experience with slow lorises. I had to look them up before I would believe a friend that they were real.
I only found out last year that they are real and I am still not 100% convinced. I mean, they’re basically sea unicorns. You expect me to believe that??
My boyfriend thought they were made up too! He’s 28… I just… I’m gonna blame it on Florida schools I guess.
I didn’t know narwhals were real until I was in my mid-20’s. I thought they were like unicorns. Just a real thing made mythical by adding a horn to it. THAT IS SOUND LOGIC DAMMIT.
I’ve had someone come into the medical library wanting information on some quack cure; I dutifully comb through PubMed, then inform him that there is no reputable medical research backing that up. He then demands to know why he’s seen ads claiming that legit medical research confirms it, and I have to explain to him that the infomercial actors and clip-art people in lab coats in the pop-up ads are not, in fact, real scientists.
I’ve explained to a graduate student that just because someone put “Dr.” in front of their name on the internet does not necessarily mean that they are a real doctor.
‘Clinically tested’ only means they tested it. It doesn’t tell you what the results were…
“The mice all exploded.”
“…well, I think we could justifiably call those results ‘amazing’ without boring people with the details, right?”
I’ve gotten a lot of patron requests lately that run along the same script.
Patron: “I’m looking for a book published by XYZ University Press. Where are those books?”
Me: “Well, we don’t organize the books by publisher. Can you give me the title?”
Patron: “But this is the XYZ University Library! Don’t you have every single book ever published by XYZ University Press?”
Me: “…no.”
“Please visit the XYZ University Archives which of course has a copy of all our university press books.”
Advanced search–>publisher field?
In my year working as a public librarian, my favorite was an older guy who sat down at a computer and waved me over to him. He then asked, “How do I surf the Internet?” When I asked what he wanted to look up online he just said he wanted to look around, like browsing a library shelf. So I showed him how to type search queries into Google. It was the best I could do.
When people ask me this kind of question – I work in IT, so it comes up for me too – I generally point them at a “top 10 websites” or “top 100” ditto to have a browse around. The PC Magazine ones are generally pretty good, although US-centric.
A friend who works at NY Public Library once got asked “Do you have books here?”
Not so much anymore:
https://chronicle.com/article/The-New-York-Public…
This list. This list is the reason that I am the sole librarian for a TV network. Which does not mean that I do not get dumb questions, but man, I don’t even want to know the answers to some of these!
Bravo, Public Librarians. You are warriors.
In my year working as a public librarian, my favorite was an older guy who sat down at a computer and waved me over to him. He then asked, “How do I surf the Internet?” When I asked what he wanted to look up online he just said he wanted to look around, like browsing a library shelf. So I showed him how to type search queries into Google. It was the best I could do.
One of the things that I’ve found is that often, when people say that they need “help using the computer”, what they really mean is that they need someone to do the typing for them because they’re illiterate. The real problem is making an appropriate recommendation for them, when they’re resistant to admitting what they really need to the point of getting up and leaving.
IPL.org still has a browseable topic list on their site (no longer maintained, but usable at this point: http://www.ipl.org/div/subject/)
As a govt librarian, my most frequent unanswerable questions are either (1) requests for things that don’t exist or (2) people, mostly students, trying to get me to do their work for them.
“I want you to send me the document outlining your agency’s regulations for X.” Actually, this agency doesn’t actually have any involvement whatsoever with X, so we don’t have any such document. “Someone told me you did!” Well… someone lied.
“I found the data tables that I need on your website, but I want it in a spreadsheet. I know I could copy-paste them into Excel but it would take too long to format properly, can you do it for me?” Nope. “But my taxes pay your salary!”
“How can I find all the documents on your website relating to this topic?” Here are some tips on how to search our website! “That would take too long, can you just email me every time another document is published on the topic?” Nope. “But my taxes!”
“I’m a postdoc and my research project requires me to open thousands these files on your website one by one. Why don’t you have all these files compiled into a single PDF document?” Because there’s absolutely no business reason for us to do that, and even if we did, it would be too massive to email it to you anyway. “But it’s so tedious and time-consuming to open them one by one.” Sure, but it’s nobody’s fault but your own that you chose to do a tedious and time-consuming project. “But my taxes!”
“I want you to send me all your agency’s data from 1950 onwards.” Actually, this agency wasn’t established until the late 60s. “You’re lying to me! I know that data exists!
“I’m an important lawyer and I want you to send me hard copies of all your agency’s publications since 2005.” We stopped issuing hard copies of our publications several years ago. “Well just print them off your website. I need them for my lawyer work, because I’m a very important lawyer who doesn’t have access to a printer or an assistant for some reason.”
ALSO, one time this woman got really angry with me on the phone. She wanted to reach our client services/general inquiries/complaints line and hadn’t been able to find the number on our website (it’s on the page helpfully labeled “CONTACT US” but a distressingly large number of people miss it completely). She had gone to her local public library and whoever she spoke to there gave her the number for our Access to Information coordinator (ATI is the Canadian federal govt equivalent of Freedom of Information).
So she went back to a different public library and whoever she spoke to the second time around gave her my number for some reason. When she found out that she still hadn’t called the right number she just fucking lost it. My attempts to politely explain that I was in no way responsible for what she was told by two public library employees I have never met, in towns I have never been to, only made her angrier. She also ranted about the ATI coordinator’s voicemail recording, which she judged inadequate because he says “Hello, you’ve reached (name) at (name of agency)” whereas she thought he should also give his job title. She kept screeching “What am I supposed to DO when a MAN tells me his NAME?!” over and over again – idk, tell him yours?
Eventually she calmed down, I gave her the number for client services/general inquiries/complaints, and she hung up.
Of course, then the client service rep she spoke to told her that her problem is outside of our agency’s jurisdiction/area of responsibility. She called me back. I didn’t pick up. She left me a very long, angry voicemail. I didn’t listen to it.
“I need to find the patent on the device the government has installed in my brain.” This happened when I was working at a PTDL.
D:
“You must be referring to your emotion chip. I can look that up for you, but first you need to turn it off.”
I just temped for a law library, and we would get a daily summary of all the new lawsuits filed in both Oregon and Washington. One of the new suits was suing Bill Gates for implanting a chip into the plantiff’s brain to cyberspy on his web surfing.
OMG. This reminds me of one time I was at the YMCA stretching after jogging, and this lady came up to me and explained that the government had used microwave radiation to burn up her intestines. She explained this in detail for quite some time.
The whole time I’m thinking, Lady, this is western Canada, you have Crohn’s. or IBS. or interstitial ulcerative colitis. or something. Also that is not how microwave rays work… I’m glad I didn’t suggest that though, because next she explained that when her doctor told her she had IBS, that was how she knew he was in league with the government.
The whole conversation was surreal.
Librarian’s least favorite retort, hands down!
Lawyers, man. I never cooperate with lawyers unless I absolutely have to (i.e., forced at gunpoint), especially when they are requesting documents.
“Hello. I am representing Canada in my high school’s Model UN. Please send me Canada’s position on (question obviously copied and pasted from the assignment sheet). Regards.”
Five a day from all over the world during high Model UN season…
I made friends with a librarian this week! I feel very Toast-adjacent. We’re gonna get pizza.
How did all the books I returned in May get lost in the stacks, so that I got alarming emails about large replacement fees all summer until they resurfaced, two by two, and I finally went down and found the last one myself? (I really would like to know the answer to this, but I think it’s probably just “an undergrad library assistant making ten bucks an hour.”)
Yes, probably a $10/hr undergrad mistake. They were shelved before being discharged. A “well run” library should have some sort of a double discharge system, where you discharge the books immediately when they come home, put them on a cart marked “discharge”, then a second $10/hr undergrad redoes the whole cart and marks them “ready to shelve.” If you’re bored you should email the Masters of Circ about this and give them what-for, usually the email is something like [email protected].
Wait, I thought the whole point of this post was that you *weren’t* supposed to answer my questions!
(Thank you, though! Interesting to know the mechanics of what happened.)
I fell into the dark world of Special Collections and Archives after 5 years in circulation, and down here we only get like 5 questions a day, so we’re lonely. Hell I’d take that question about eating acorns any day!
Normally the double-discharge system is a bit of a pain in the butt, but during the end of the school year rush when you get a lot of returns all at once, it saves everyone a lot of suffering!
Also, a metric fuckton shitload of university library books get returned in May, thanks to people who will not graduate unless they pony up the hoard that they’ve been keeping a deathgrip on for months. And quite a lot of the undergrad helpers that would otherwise be pressed into overtime are studying or taking finals or graduating or partying or gone. Not that I’m a former university library clerk who has literally trembled with rage while some grad student hauls in a huge pile of books and says that he does the same thing every semester and demands to have the billing immediately removed from his student account, and smiles when he says it. Or anything. (Not that present company would do anything like that.)
“And I’d like return receipts for all of these too. Thanks.”
Man, grad students are assholes. Although I am one now, I used to work in fellowships and scholarships, and dealing with graduate student fellowship recipients was often… challenging. Oh, the entitlement and superiority complexes. My favorite was the one who threatened to sic the US ambassador to Turkey on me (in context, this made a little bit of sense, but not much) because I wouldn’t bend the fellowship rules for her.
“You can pet the dogs in the Rare Dog Room, but you can’t take them out, and you have to wear cotton gloves while you handle them.”
I took Driver’s Ed as a teen at a church next door to the local library. One night, the library had left about half a dozen large boxes of books on the corner – for trash pickup? It was a goldmine, but when I started going through the boxes it turned out that it was like 90% porn – hardbound porn books. I had no idea this was a thing. So I guess either some weirdo donated them and the library was like nope, or it was finally getting rid of its own secret stash. The next evening they hadn’t been picked up, and it had rained, inspiring my first foray into songwriting: “Soggy Porn.” Looking back, they probably shouldn’t have left porn on government property with minors around….
i am truly gobsmacked that someone named “deitybox” did not give a good home to a church-adjacent box of HARDBOUND PORN.
Well it was mostly airbrushed 80s’ , male-gaze stuff. Not for me. But interesting – what does “deitybox” mean to you?
i’d never considered that exact question before but if a box of porn isn’t a gift from god, i don’t know what is. (says the perpetually teenage boy portion of my brain.)
Current patrons who have decided I am their new favorite:
-One wants me to look up spellings of words for them, not limited to “aid”, “pageant”, and “polite”. Also wants to know answers to grammar questions and movie times.
-One wants me to run their craigslist postings for their rental units. Is convinced that Craigslist doesn’t like them.
I had a patron yesterday call and ask “If I take a photo of my fridge, will you put it up on Craigslist?” It was hard for me not to immediately blurt out “Not a service we provide!” I instead explained that we could show her how to get onto Craigslist and help with any technical difficulties, but that she would have to make the post herself. She wasn’t happy.
our system started offering classes on craigslist, thank god.
One patron repeatedly calls us and asks us questions like: how many times does 12 go into 144? What is the percentage of 50 out of 100? Seriously!
I went to grad school to be a calculator?
I honestly feel like several of the above questions are entirely legitimate inquiries, if a bit odd. What IS the nutritional value of acorns? Is there a standard number of dimples on a golf ball? These are easily answered with an internet search, but it may be that these people are unfamiliar with such tools, especially the person who is apparently planning to live out in the woods like a squirrel.
I totally agree. In reality, it was more the fact that sometimes one has to pick their jaw up off of the floor before answering a reference question. Sometimes, it isn’t even the question itself, it’s the way it is asked that makes it weird.
I think the other factor is how much patience a patron has. Librarians could answer some of these, but it might take some time to find the answer, or they might have to send the patron to another professional, like a doctor or CPA. My experience has been that people asking these kind of things want their information RIGHT NOW OMG EMERGENCY and roll their eyes at you when you can’t produce an answer within 10 seconds. That’s the impossible part.
There is an upside! Multiple nannies who bring their kids to my storytimes have told me that their kiddos want to play “Librarian Ipomoea” and read stories to them. Yes, I cried.
The NY Public Libraries have started posting images of old librarian queries on their instagram once a week and it is my favorite thing they post. Little, handwritten, beautifully written notes with questions like “what is the life cycle of an eyebrow hair” My 18th century English paintings have so many squirrels in them, how did they tame them so they wouldn’t bite the painter?”. It’s AMAZING. (nypl on instagram if you’re interested)
That’s my favorite! I’ve made myself a little placard that says ‘Let me Librarian that for you’ to keep over my desk, directly inspired by their Instagram series.
It took me a moment to realize “nypl” is the New York Public Libraries, and not some alternative, badass spelling of “nipple”.
You know librarians and their corrupting of the children…
“Can you help me find some examples of baseball cards from Roman times?”
NO. OH MY GOD. NO. I just. What. WHUT.
This wasn’t a question that I was asked but when I heard about it I was like “Why Roman times??? WHYYYY?”
Tangentially related: Back in college, I once went to a presentation by some Egyptologist that was all about this ancient Egyptian game that was like a proto-baseball. He handed out “baseball cards” to everyone with ancient art images of people playing the game and “stats” that were really just history facts.
My faves include “I need a non-fiction book, where are they?” Me, “is there a particular topic you want to find about?”. Patron, “no just a non fiction book.” (Getting angry)
Me, “ok this whole floor is non-fiction, knock yourself out”
I have gotten “where are the novels?” from clueless young students who have a school assignment to “read a novel.”
When told, “I’m looking for a book” I fantasize about grabbing the nearest one and offering it up. “Will this one do?” 😛
I should expound on this: “where are the novels?” is a legitimate question if you’re looking to browse the fiction! What I found odd is that the kids seemed to think that they’d just grab one at random, or that there would be a select list of Approved Novels to choose from.
As librarians, we want to help you find a book! But our brains shut down if you don’t give us enough information to find you one. 😛
I was once asked if I could generate a list of all the books my library did NOT have.
I think my head exploded.
Can you tell me the nutritional value of acorns?
I would actually really like to know the answer to this, just to feel better about that kid in My Side of the Mountain eating all those acorn-flour pancakes. He was so concerned about his vitamin intake in general, but he never explained what he got from the acorns! It’s been bugging me for decades!
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/nut-and-seed-…
They don’t appear to be very nutritious, unless you need some manganese.
This is a pretty easy one, really. Go to http://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/foods and search “acorns.” You’ll find raw, dried and flour (in addition to acorn squash…). Now, where do you keep the secret maps — the one that the US government doesn’t want us to see?
hahaha this was exactly my thought, as well
same!
Boyfriendo is a librarian. The other night we got into a debate about whether cats’ brains or walnuts were bigger. I think he’s happy that I chose to ask Google rather than one of his colleagues.
(Answer: unclear. A cat’s brain weighs about as much as 1/4c shelled walnuts, but I haven’t had the time to look at measurements of length or density.)
Given the general behavior of my cats, I’d say it’s a very diffuse 1/4 cup of walnuts, with each nut functioning as a single neuron.
My money’s on cat brains. In the secret basement rooms of the biology department at my university, they have all kinds of taxidermied animals and weird stuff in jars, and one of those jars contained the central nervous system of a cat. I had actually just discussed this important question with my girlfriend, so I tried really hard to remember how big a typical walnut is, and I judged that the cat brain was obviously larger. I snapped a picture, but of course you can’t really tell how big the brain is and I didn’t have a walnut on my person to compare it to, so.
I’m still not sure. I do think walnuts are denser than brains, though. Brains are mostly water, which is why it’s a good idea to drink water when you have a headache.
I started to write an answer, and it became a wall of nerdy text, just FYI. So, I don’t remember the numbers off the top of my head, but as far as I know, the brain is mostly made out of fat. All that white matter is fat! The fat wraps around the axons (the nerve threads), serving as insulation.
There are many kinds of pain, but if I recall correctly, what causes dehydration headaches is similar to tension headache. I think it’s ischaemic pain, meaning that the muscles give pain signals because they feel oxygen starved. So, the reason you’re supposed to drink water when you have a headache is that dehydration lowers your blood pressure (because there’s literally not enough fluid), so the blood vessels have to constrict to keep the blood pressure up, and when the blood vessels in the muscles on your skull squeeze together, you get a headache because the head muscles are complaining. (In a tension headache, it would be the other way around – tense muscles would squeeze the blood vessels whether they wanted to or not, thus making it hard to get enough oxygen in and enough waste out, and this makes the pain receptors whine.) Drinking water puts more fluid in your system, so you don’t have to squeeze to get enough blood going around, and when the vessels relax, the muscles can pick up enough oxygen through the artery walls and can flush out their waste products. I’d have to Google it to be sure, but I’m pretty sure this is what’s up.
Fun fact, you actually don’t have any pain receptors in your brain at all! So even if headache was caused by something in the brain, you wouldn’t feel it (people feel pain from stroke when the bleeding happens in or puts pressure on the meninges, and THAT apparently hurts a lot). Sometimes people have to stay awake for brain surgery, and it’s completely doable, because brain surgery doesn’t hurt.
Wow, really useful and interesting comment. Thank you!
Welp. Wouldn’t be the first time I learned something incorrect in science class. Thanks.
Shelled or unshelled walnut?
Ah, Natalie, you guys get all the fun weird questions. We just get the guys looking at porn on the computers.
Oh… but we have plenty of those! Seriously, anyone need any of these? We have several to spare…
There was one public computer, the one farthest away from the reference desk, that was so often used for porn viewing that that’s what we called it, “the porn computer” — “It’s over by the 700’s, you know — left of the porn computer…” (And this was in a corporate library!)
I used to work somewhere that had an education library. It had a lot of books on sexuality, etc – like, LGBTQI books and also ‘joy of sex’ etc. Some of them would come back… sticky.
When I worked in a library, my favorite request I ever heard (via phone, mind you): “I need the french horn music for the Welsh National Anthem. It sounds like this [man proceeds to loudly make imitation horn tooting sounds into the phone].” The request of “I read this book about baseball, it’s blue, can you find it” – that’s not even funny anymore. Too real
This is SUCH A THING. Nobody told me “other duties as assigned” meant knowing how many teeth an aardvark has, or who owns the derelict apartment building around the corner from you, or how you can access the internal listservs of the Justice Department, or how to prove there is not a secret cabal of people preventing Montessori schools from becoming more mainstream. And so it goes.
the secret Montessori cabal — omg
My favorite question I’ve gotten: “Is this the police station?”
I dramatically gesture to all of the books around me. “No. This is a library. Try next door.”
Looks confused, “Oh. Huh.” And then leaves.
Almost two decades ago I had a short-term job in a museum that shared a building with the city police station. They had a sign on the door directing people who were showing up to be fingerprinted to the next door down, but I gather it didn’t work very well.
We also parked in the same lot as the cops, so would arrive at and leave work while they were bringing handcuffed people in, and once my coworker was lifting up ceiling tiles and looking in the crawlspace above to see if we could run some computer cables to the other side of the room, and we watched a knife fall out of the ceiling! (The police station used to occupy those rooms, but it had been a few years since they moved.)
One of my favorite YA novels is Lirael by Garth Nix. She is an assistant librarian who lives under a glacier/ inside a mountain in an all women community of psychics. Inside the library there are eldritch abominations and ancient secrets locked away; outside are undead corpses and necromancers. She fights them all with a magical sword, a set of pan pipes, and a talking dog.
It sounds like this is much closer to real life than I ever realized.
They keep that stuff out of the library school brochures.
I loooove that book! She pretty much lives my fantasy.
There is a reason I switched to cataloging. And that reason is two years in a small public library as the only professional librarian, followed by one semester as an elementary school media specialist. Now I work in academic special collections and there’s a rumor that they are going to make me staff the reference desk a few hours per week.
At the public library (15 years ago, when we JUST got public internet computers) there was an older guy who asked for his Yahoo password every single time he came in. Finally we just kept it written down in an envelope at the reference desk. It was a tiny library in a small town, so we could get away with stuff like that. Also the curmudgeon who got upset every time he came in if the overhead fans were on, and asked us to turn them off. (We did not have air conditioning.) And the woman who THREW a book at me across the circulation desk because it was “FILTHY.” Yeah. I don’t miss any of that.
At risk of being That Guy, the person asking about a list of most ethical countries may have been looking for the Transparency.org Country Corruption Index. https://www.transparency.org/country/
Oh! But we did have a doozy from a donor in Special Collections recently. He emailed one of our curators regarding the collection he was considering donating: “You refer to these as ‘monographs’ but they are a collection of books and pamphlets.” It’s a constant joke now. “Do we have any monographs to catalog today?” “Nope, just these books and pamphlets.”
Hahahaha! This is great! I worked in Cataloging dealing with periodicals at my university library while I was in grad school and I can just hear this exchange…
“You call this a ‘periodical’ but it seems to be a magazine…”
When in grad school for my MLIS I asked a woman at an information desk (I assume a librarian, but who knows) in a public library “where are your periodicals?” She looked at me confused, and I said, “Magaznes” She pointed to them and I thought, fair enough, periodicals is an odd term.
The big sign over the section said, “periodicals.”
One time a man came up to me and told me he’d been to a city library in San Francisco, and that one day he could take me there so I could see what a real library looks like.
I work in a library about 4 hours away from SF, and I don’t know what irked me more: the assumption that I’d never left our small rural town and could thereby be impressed by stories of libraries with MULTIPLE FLOORS, or the idea that I didn’t work in a real library.
For the record, we have two floors.
Ugh this just happened to me today (Saturday librarian).
A guy couldn’t stop telling me how disorganised our magazines were, and using the phrase ‘In a well-used library…’ to describe the far superior practices of all our library brethren, whose patrons presumably all put the magazines back in correct date order after reading them.
I’m so sorry you have to use this, a poorly-used library. Perhaps, in light of this fact, you will now stop using us. We’d really rather maintain our poorly-used image if it’s all the same to you. In fact, your use of this library is actively degrading our Use Factor. Your fine is in the mail.
Love this!
Oh – and I know the answer to their Jackie Wilson question – which is one of those fuzzy logic, wetware-dependent jobs, like a lot of book identification questions are. They are clearly thinking of Reet Petite – a terrific tune: https://youtu.be/tE46zm4yjhA
I KNOW! This particular patron has a tendency to call us drunk and ask for song lyrics. So that was the only part he gave me but i FOUND THE ANSWER ANYWAY! I was pretty surprised, actually!
True stories (these are mostly from my public library years):
– Young girl says she has to read a book on biology, but that she wants a short one. (Of course.) I take her to the non-fiction section of the children’s department, and thumb through the biology books until I find one that, in terms of the brevity of the print part and the size of the illustrations, is very nearly in picture-book territory. She looks at me with an expression of perfect contempt and says, “I said, short.” (I invite her to browse the section on her own and leave her there.)
– Kid needs to read a novel. Librarian attempts to do the reference interview thing and ascertain which particular genres, or even particular subjects, kid is interested in. Kid shows a masterful grasp of the passive-aggressive game and insists that they are interested in absolutely nothing. War and Peace it is!
– A short person comes up to the reference desk and asks a question, I honestly don’t remember what it was. I tell them that I’ll do my level best to answer it once they stop resting their top row of teeth on the edge of my desk. (I swear to you that this happened.)
– Not really asking me a question so much as asking me to read a dirty postcard or limerick out loud. Oh, you scamp! Say, apropos of nothing, did I mention that there’s a police station about a half block from here? Yeah, you have a great day, sir.
– No, I will not buy one of the sweatshirts that you dragged in here in a big cardboard box that “fell off a truck.” Also, you need to leave thirty seconds ago.
– Ditto for the steaks that you just pulled out of your jacket.
– Out of the many no-I-will-not-do-your-(or-your-child’s-)homework-for-you “questions”: I’m sorry, but I cannot and will not do your child’s science fair project for them; no, your having bought the posterboard does not mean that you “started” it, since you don’t even have a topic for it yet. Actually, we do have a number of books that suggest topics for science fair projects–no, I can’t pick one out for you–and a good day to you, ma’am. (So, so tempted to suggest the baking-soda volcano, but I’m not always in a sadistic, here’s-War and Peace mood.)
– Whether or not I have fifty cents is irrelevant to the question of whether or not I’d give it to you, the answer to which is no. If you require assistance–I’m sorry, even if I could go fuck myself, I don’t get a break for another two hours.
– No, sir, we do not have a list of the dirty books in the library. You’ll have to do a labor-intensive search, just the way that I did when I was your age. But God bless you for upholding a noble and ancient tradition in the internet age.
(in the interests of accuracy, I may have tweaked a detail or two)
THIS.
“Kid needs to read a novel. Librarian attempts to do the reference interview thing and ascertain which particular genres, or even particular subjects, kid is interested in. Kid shows a masterful grasp of the passive-aggressive game and insists that they are interested in absolutely nothing. War and Peace it is!”
I’d hand ‘m Finnegan’s Wake.
Answer to last question: HQ 21.
Or
Filth : dirt, disgust, and modern life / William A. Cohen and Ryan Johnson, editors.
Someone noted it earlier, but I’ll say it again – but these are all legitimate questions with possible, reasonable answers. I would happily answer every single one of these.
Yeah, except the ones about the librarian’s personal life. They aren’t there to date you.
The reasonable answer is “I’m sorry, did you have an ACTUAL information request?”
Surely not the ones asking if the librarian is single; literally asking for a piece of them (the cloning question); or asking them to act as a medical professional.
https://archivefever103.wordpress.com/2015/09/18/…
I wrote an annotated response. I hope it comes across as it’s intended to – as thoughtful disagreement with the premise of the original piece.
Hmm. I understand the sentiment behind your post, but I’d disagree with a number of the specifics. In some cases, you’re not really writing “the answerable question being asked”, but substituting an answerable question for the one actually being asked. For example, “Does this look infected to you?” isn’t “Where is a nearby urgent care facility?”, it’s the questioner asking you to diagnose their condition, and it’s not inappropriate to tell them why you won’t do so before suggesting an urgent care facility. Ditto for “Will you fill out my taxes for me? WHY NOT?” In that case, they’re asking you directly about your boundaries as a professional librarian, and it’s not unreasonable to answer, as I have on numerous occasions, before making the appropriate referral.
On the other hand: “Where do you keep your adult films? – Creeper, don’t answer.” Oh boy. Depending on the community, the library policy, and the age of the questioner, “adult films” can cover a lot more turf than straight-up porn. They may be assuming that films are sorted by MPAA rating and/or asking for something that’s not intended for children. They may be assuming that anything that’s LGBTQ oriented would be in that category.
I assure you, we did reference interviews with all of these interactions and got the patron as close to an answer as possible. Could we find a baby photo of Andrew Jackson? No, but the librarian did find a sketch of a child from the same time period. Etc. Some of the hilarity in these questions comes from the way they were asked, not that someone took the time to ask us and we couldn’t always find an answer for them.
I agree. Some of them could have been answered, at least to some degree.
I am eternally grateful to the reference librarians of my childhood. Whenever I had a random question my Dad couldn’t answer, he would take me to the library, and we would ask the librarian where to start researching (this was the early 90s, so pre-ubiquitous-internet). Some of the questions I remember are, “What noise do Emperor Penguins make?” “How do telephones work?” and “why does that tree in our backyard (a Thundercloud Plum) have red leaves instead of green?” The librarians always seemed really happy to help out. In the case of the penguin query, the librarian said she’d look into it. Several hours later, she called us at home, and said into the phone, “ga ga ga gaaa!”
The other part of this, of course, is that my Dad is the best.
great story, great people
I love this story SO MUCH! That is an awesome librarian!
We did answer all of these to the best of our abilities at the time. The weirder part was definitely the way they were asked in context. Some bizarre interactions there!
My favourite working in my (Scottish) town public library – ‘Can you tell me where your books on the science of necromancy are?’ I loved the fact that this teen thought we had multiple books on this well known ‘science’. I explained that we had no specific books on necromancy but showed him several books on witchcraft and the history of witchcraft and he left happily. Not sure what he was going to do with the information though …
That was clearly a young, time-traveling Victor Frankenstein you helped, there.
“I’m looking for a book. It’s blue.”
Why can’t I find my family name in the card catalog?( (I know, it shows my age.)
In an engineering library: ” i want that blue book on finite element analysis.” Hah, we’re talking engineering here, where 90% of the books are either blue or black. And in this particular library, nearly every book had something on finite element analysis.
“Why don’t you advertise your events?” They’re always advertised in the local newspaper. “I don’t read the paper”. Well, they’re announced on x radio station. “I don’t listen to the radio”. Ok, there are flyers.” I don’t read those.” Well, we always have our announcements on that bulletin board, not to mention that we do showcase for our events. “Oh, i don’t look at that crap!” Gee, if you’d like, i’ll call you personally every day, and IF you answer, I’ll tell you all about our upcoming events.
And finally, my personal favorite: my taxes pay your salary!” Really? I don’t have to pay taxes, why are you paying them?
“Do you have any recipes for cooking dog meat?” “Can you show me how to do the Hokey Pokey? I know the lyrics, but I don’t know what it looks like.” [on phone] “Are you the librarian who wears the ponytail? Can you show me how to make a ponytail?” [yes, then] “Should I bring my own comb?”
Questions I will, and do, answer:
“Do you have any informative books?”
“Do you have any books, like, after 1945?”
“Where are the scholarly articles that are easy?”
“Do you have any college-level fiction books about animals? That aren’t too long? And are easy?”
“Do you have any reading books?”
“How do I print this video?”
“Do you want to see pictures of my vacation?”
[About the discarded books on sale for $0.50] “Why don’t you give books away for free?”
Those are all pretty great questions. “Where are the scholarly articles that are easy?”, for example, brings up the question of whether or not an article can and/or should be both scholarly and readable by someone who isn’t a scholar in that field of study. There’s also a lot of room for exploration, such as how that patron defines “easy” and if there’s something behind “informative”, such as the expectations of a particular teacher.
I hope I am not the only person who thought “Why can’t you use your toaster at the library? What’s better than books and toast?”
If you don’t toast your books, they tend to get soggy. Nothing less convenient than a soggy book!
You public librarians, man. You are heroes. I couldn’t deal with all that. I volunteered some at my public library before starting library school, but I’m now an academic librarian, the sole one in my small health sciences graduate university’s campus, and everyone is so nice and grateful. It’s completely ruined me for the public library environment. Compared to these questions my job is a breeze.
I am an archivist, and my hands-down least favourite question is “Can I just come in and browse?” NO YOU MAY NOT you have confused an archive with a library.
I was an elementary school media specialist so received lots of hilarious requests from students and teachers . Got lots of “I’ll just go to the real library” remarks from teachers who were too “busy” to walk down the hall. My favorite request came from a fifth grade student who wanted to know where a copy of the biography of the unknown soldier was. Those kind of requests made my job a great experience. Then there were the teachers who would send a student to collect ALL the books I had on a particular subject so other teachers would have none for their students. People wondered why I laughed all the time !
And they say there are no stupid questions. Harrumph.
(*snort*) Quote from old ESPN commercial: “There are no stupid questions, only stupid people who ASK questions.”
I have to add, “Can you smell this fish and tell me if it still ok? Fish quickly stuck up against my nose. It was ok (I used to cook for a living)!
my favorite question ever ‘I have a class at 2 can you wake me at 1.55?’
I am doing reseach on squirrels. It needs to be a primary source.
They don’t make phone books any more. What is the phone number for (fill in the blank)?
Why did you change your hair?
Why is that man watching porn in the library?
PRIMARY SQUIRREL SOURCE.
Would read.
Primary Squirrel Source is the name of my Deerhoof tribute band.
I get some EMERGENCY food recipes, and I try my best to answer them. I’ve also answered phone question that begin with “I’m lost, can you help me find a certain address?” With the wondrous Google Maps, and him telling me the cross streets he was at, I got them to their destination. My favorite question is “Where can I find the 10WD40 form?
I am a children’s librarian, so I often get the question “Where are your adult films?” but it’s usually followed by a dad turning bright red and saying, “Oh god, I mean GROWN UP movies, I mean, like, SEABISCUIT, I just want something that isn’t Caillou“
"The mice all exploded."
"…well, I think we could justifiably call those results 'amazing' without boring people with the details, right?"
Those are all pretty great questions. "Where are the scholarly articles that are easy?", for example, brings up the question of whether or not an article can and/or should be both scholarly and readable by someone who isn't a scholar in that field of study. There's also a lot of room for exploration, such as how that patron defines "easy" and if there's something behind "informative", such as the expectations of a particular teacher.
I’m a humble Circulation Clerk, not an actual Librarian, but I still get some awesome questions. I have to work hard to restrain my natural British sarcasm though. However, when one patron said “I’m looking for a book.” I did respond brightly “You’ve come to the RIGHT place!”
My supervisor was not impressed.
Man, grad students are assholes. Although I am one now, I used to work in fellowships and scholarships, and dealing with graduate student fellowship recipients was often… challenging. Oh, the entitlement and superiority complexes. My favorite was the one who threatened to sic the US ambassador to Turkey on me (in context, this made a little bit of sense, but not much) because I wouldn't bend the fellowship rules for her.