She Said, She Said: Advice About Dating Disclosures -The Toast

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Previous installments of The Toast’s advice column from two disparate and imperfect persons can be found here. Last time: Cultural Appropriation.

I have recently started seeing a Gentleman Caller. Things have not progressed too far, but they have progressed rather more quickly than I expected. This concerns me because I come with a decent amount of baggage. Like, sexual-trauma-related-mental-health-issues baggage that I am actively working on, but nevertheless seems like would be relevant information to know about one’s hypothetical romantic partner when embarking on a new relationship. But that’s not something I know how to disclose without sharing more than I’m comfortable with and/or scaring him off. How and when do I have that conversation? Do I even need to have that conversation, or is this just my self-sabotaging defense mechanism kicking in, trying to scare him off?

Nicole: Well, first, I’m very sorry about your sexual-trauma-related-mental-issues baggage. It’s really shitty that something happened to cause you to have it in the first place, and you definitely don’t want to find yourself apologizing for it when you DO have this conversation. It’s not as though you went to Louis Vuitton and said “what do you have in a vintage cries-during-sex? perhaps a crocodile skin jumps-when-touched?”

Second, and this goes for everyone whose problem isn’t a made-up problem about being too tall, I hope you have a good support structure and ideally a licensed professional you can talk to.

Now, this particular thing, with your Gentleman Caller. Are you worried or stressed that things are progressing more quickly than you expected, or does it feel natural? If the former, that seems like an indication that you’re already starting to get a little uncomfortable, vis a vis your baggage, and you should decide exactly what degree of involved you want to be with this person at this moment. If that’s “we already made out, but I’d rather go on a few more dates before making out again,” you can probably just communicate that without getting super specific. With what you’re carrying around, I’d just pay a little more attention to any sense than things are moving at all out of your control. That may not be the case! You may just be excited, and you’re organically getting closer to this Gentleman Caller faster than you thought. Great! At this stage, do you consider yourself in a relationship? Personally, prior to having a formal What Are We Doing Here convo, I don’t think you owe anyone an exhaustive rundown of your issues and history, and if it feels like you’d be sharing more than you’re comfortable with, you’re likely not quite there yet.

Things that would suggest that’s changed, and it’s time for a talk?

1. Discussions about exclusivity.
2. The minute you feel as though your past is something you want to share with this person.
3. When it becomes a problem. And by that, I mean “when your baggage is causing you to behave in a manner other than which you would like to behave in a perfect world where someone hadn’t tried to fuck up your shit.” You’ll have to listen to yourself for that one.

Mallory: With every passing week I become more and more convinced that I am the least qualified person in the world to participate in an advice column. Your problem sounds to me like the most delicious and wonderful excuse to ignore your Gentleman Caller and be gloriously, perfectly alone. You could just drop him, you know. Stop taking his calls and fade slowly off of his Contacts list in gchat and wrap yourself in a splendid cocoon of solitude and grew stronger and more vibrant by the day and buy yourself elaborate headwraps and conquer the world of business and laugh a throaty laugh to yourself every night in your cool, dark room. You could wake violently every morning and thrust a sword into the air, just to remind the air who’s in charge, before taking your toast and tea.

But, if you would prefer to continue seeing this man-person for a while longer and have not yet made your mind to pursue the glories of warrior spinsterhood, then I suppose a plan of action is called for. (I trust he’s very pleasant to look at and speak to and so forth.)

It’s altogether too easy, I think, particular in the early stages of getting to know someone, to mistake similarities in taste and habits and interests for character. Only a good person would enjoy tea with milk and Captain Picard and leaving parties early, one thinks to oneself, only to be blindsided a month later when said the tea-and-Picard-lover leaves one flat for the ex they never mentioned was still in the picture. Which is not to say your Gentleman Caller should be treated as a Bolter until proven otherwise, of course; simply that your peace of mind and emotional health ought to be your priority as you get to know him.

Is he consistent about small things? Does he do the things he says he’ll do? How does he respond to your developing closeness? When things progress “more quickly than you expected,” is it because he is prone to sudden, rash declarations, or because the two of you find yourself surprisingly wrapped up in one another? (Remember that you always have the option of taking to the sea.) Give him small things to carry before handing him something that will test his strength. Don’t test him, of course, or set him up to fail, or quiz him and watch to see if he slips up, but give him the opportunity to be decent to you. If he responds warmly and thoughtfully to small disclosures; if he does not share things you tell him in confidence or dismiss your feelings when you bring them to him, then and only then should you consider having the big talk (or two or three medium talks, depending on your ability to endure such things).

If you do reach that point with him, I have a few very stupid suggestions. Have that talk when you are sober, have it while the sun is shining, have it someplace you feel comfortable (whether that be at home or very far away from it), and eat a little something first. That’s always my advice. Eat a little something first. I don’t know if you’re going to end up with this fellow or not, but you should eat a little something first, so you won’t be hungry when you make your decision. You’ll do great. Half a sandwich should do the trick. You can save the other half for later.

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Ugh this advice is so great! I would add: I think it is okay to be sort of vague but still kind of wave a lil red flag if you need to. Like, just say, you know, I really like you but I think I would like to take things slow and I don't want you to take that as a rejection because it isn't, it's because there is some stuff in my past that makes me want to take things a bit slower, and that might make me react a bit differently than I would like to.
3 replies · active 596 weeks ago
bustedsneakers's avatar

bustedsneakers · 596 weeks ago

Aaaughaghaghagh why is melis the best at dating advice, take to the sea and eat something first. Oh my god I wish I'd had that advice.

Posted in a reply so it will collapse nicely, under general header: this is such good advice, agreed with the above. Sometimes I like to also maybe a little... something, not passive-aggressively, because there's no aggression, but I suppose it's indirect - I like to share the Oh Joy Sex Toy comic about how taking the brakes off is almost as important as being turned on. It's related.
(http://www.ohjoysextoy.com/scienceofdesire/)

Excuse me, I've permission to take to the sea now.
Mmmhmm, mmhmm. This is right.
My very favorite part of this is to eat something before making decisions. I for one have made rash decisions on an empty stomach, as I believed at the time, it would let me get food sooner.
8 replies · active 596 weeks ago
Yeah, I sometimes refer to a thing that happens to me as "hunger-induced psychosis" and I am not even being hyperbolic.
One of my friends calls it 'hangry' because she is a rageful evil witch-lady when she's hungry. She even scares me, and nothing scares me.
There's that greeting card that says "I'm sorry for what I said when I was hungry" and I really should just buy a lifetime supply of them and send them every so often to my best friend and my gentledude. EAT SOMETHING YOU GUYS.
I literally was just getting SO MAD at my coworker (I mean, more than I generally am) and then I remembered that I hadn't eaten my yogurt yet and now I'm back down to my baseline irritation level, which is much better. Food = magic.
They actually make a greeting card for that?! That. Is. Awesome. Where can I sign up for my lifetime supply?I think I'd need to give one to my "gentledude" on a regular basis.
Oh my God - this is me! I am also a rageful evil witch lady when I'm hungry. I need to print a sign for my desk that says "If I'm snappish or mean to you for no apparent reason - please give me a snack".
I am a super coworker and buy snacks for my team out of my own pocket/goodness of my black little heart (pretzels, twizzlers, etc.) ... but at my team's specific request I started a donation jar that I have labeled "Feed The Hangry." It's a big hit.
Yes, eat before making decisions, and also before continuing large fights.

My husband and I are both practically the walking embodiments of those Snickers commercials. We just have to stop talking until after a full meal sometimes.

Basically, most of the time, hunger=anger/frustration.
This is, as always, wonderful advice. Best of luck, LW.

And Mallory, thank you as always for making the case for the glories of warrior spinsterhood. I shall have to buy myself a edged weapon to keep by my bedside. (A shortsword? I could use it to cut myself hunks of cheese.)
8 replies · active 596 weeks ago
I'm going to write "Remember that you always have the option of taking to the sea" on my bathroom mirror in lipstick.
I'm going to write 'Half a Sandwich should do the trick" on mine!
If you Toast editors want to start making, like, some T-shirts or posters with the best of Mallory's lines on them, I suspect that would be one hell of a moneymaker for this site.
Cross-stitch samplers!
I might get lazy and print a line out in some stylized font, frame it, and place it on my office desk.
Oh lord, please someone do this. And if Matt Lubchansky would like to illustrate said posters... hint hint...
"laugh a throaty laugh to yourself every night in your cool, dark room. You could wake violently every morning and thrust a sword into the air, just to remind the air who’s in charge, before taking your toast and tea."

EXACTLY WHAT I DID THIS MORNING.
I think that it's more important to be clear about "what" than "why". You shouldn't feel pressured to share information that's too painful or personal to discuss comfortably, but it's probably a good idea to give your gentleman caller a heads up on things that may affect you/him/you-him now (I'm not comfortable being touched in these places/ways; my medication means that late nights are a no-go; I prefer to sleep in my own bed, alone: there is the couch or perhaps I can call you a cab).
2 replies · active 596 weeks ago
Yes, absolutely. Establishing boundaries in your relationship is important both for your own health and the good of the relationship, and you can set them and make it clear they're not about the other person without having to explain why those are your particular boundaries. Someone worthy of being your partner will respect that.
Definitely this. Telling a partner that you are a survivor may or may not be a meaningful thing for you to do--perhaps it's important for you to articulate it and lay claim to it or share intimate knowledge, perhaps not--but that admission alone will not give him any information about your boundaries, your fears, or your desires. How you want or do not want to be touched; how you would like to spend time together and when.

And, you know, you may not know yet. You may not be able to anticipate your own limits yet, and that can feel a little scary, but it's okay. You can trust yourself; you'll let yourself know when you find out what those limits are.
Dancing Narwhal's avatar

Dancing Narwhal · 596 weeks ago

I think it's good to tell him when you feel it's comfortable and right rather than when it seems like it would be most appropriate from the outside. But I say that as someone who disclosed my sexual trauma/mental health baggage in the middle of making out with my now boyfriend for the first time. I think he took it pretty well considering I just sort of blurted it out in the middle of everything? But it was nice because then it was out of the way and I could slowly reveal details as time went on so he'd know what behaviors and things to watch out for.
Warrior Spinsters, taking to the sea. That does sound wonderful, I have to say.

This is really great advice, and I second what Iceberg says above about waving a tiny, vague red flag, if you're comfortable with doing so. If this is a quality Gentleman Caller, he won't be frightened off by something like that. I would also say try not to worry about what you "owe" him in terms of disclosure, or whether he would feel later like you'd been hiding this from him if you don't tell him by a certain point in your relationship. I agree with what Nicole says about having that talk around the time you start to be exclusive, but I also don't think there is any right answer to the question of what's the "right" time to tell him.

Instead, I think you should focus on when (and what) YOU feel comfortable telling him. Think about what he has done/is doing to make himself trustworthy and make you feel safe with him. I can understand how your past experiences make it hard to trust your own reactions or feelings about this situation, but I think you should give more credit to your instincts about him, and also give yourself a break. Be gentle and patient with yourself. Again, there is no universally "right" time to tell him, and if he's a good guy, whenever you do tell him, his response won't be "Why didn't you say so earlier so I knew what I was getting into?" but instead "Thank you for sharing that with me, I know it must have been hard and I'm glad you trust me enough to tell me." Nobody really knows what they're in for when they get together with another person, after all.
1 reply · active 596 weeks ago
"Nobody really knows what they're in for when they get together with another person, after all" should be its own stand-alone all-purpose relationship advice column.
IGNORE ME COMPLETELY DO WHAT MALLORY SAID
WARRIOR SPINSTERHOOD FOREVER!!!!!1!1!!!!!11!!!
Holy crap Mallory, please never stop giving advice. Here is why:

1) It is both light-hearted and a little dark enough that the desperate side of the LW in all of us is empowered to not be afraid of the weight of a situation, or the alternatives; thinking "if he decides he doesn't want to get into this I'll buy myself a goddamn chakram and become a Tycoon" is pretty much thought-courage.

2) It is so pleasantly objective! All the time! And *practical*. It makes so much sense to eat half a sandwich before a rough talk. And do it in the sun. And make sure to put yourself first. These are the things most of us wouldn't think of that make a difference.

3) That 'listen to how he responds to other things in your life' advice is genius. Scientific method as applied to relationships!

I, personally, will be adding "take to the sea" as a third option to all uncomfortable decision binaries.
"give him the opportunity to be decent to you"
"you always have the option of taking to the sea"

YES, both so good, so important, every day, whatever the vintage of the relationship and the stories of the participants.
All of this advice is wonderful, and I just want to add one thing - you get to place your decision to disclose/not disclose in the context of your overall work in your recovery. You don't have to tell him if you're not ready to tell anyone but your therapist yet. You can reveal things gradually. You can say, I have anxiety and depression (for example). Something like that might be useful for explaining (if you wish to) impulses/behaviors you wish you did not have. If you're not ready to talk to anyone about it outside of a very tightly defined group that might include only one person, that's ok. While it can be healing to disclose these experiences, it can also be very scary, and you don't need to push yourself further than you're ready to go. It's a process, and there's no timeline you need to be on.
PomoFrannyGlass's avatar

PomoFrannyGlass · 596 weeks ago

I am in quite a different situation than the letter writer but have a What Are We Doing Here convo scheduled for this very evening (after the sun goes down, oops) and in my nervy, excited state, am just immensely grateful for every word of Mallory's response. Saving the paragraph about elaborate headwraps and conquering the world of business in case I need it tomorrow morning, since I am far more likely to laugh throatily to myself and thrust a sword into the air than to take the sea (sadly!).

"Eat a little something first" is also my first line of advice for absolutely everything. It always makes a much bigger difference than you think it will.
Mallory, will you be my mommy? This is the kind of advice I could've really used as a teenager.
1 reply · active 596 weeks ago
I COULD HAVE USED IT TOO, MAN
Taking To The Sea > Dating
I think both portions of advice are excellent, but Mallory's makes me want to cry.
2 replies · active 596 weeks ago
I mean, the kind of cry where something's so good and true that you just can't help it.
It makes me want to buy a sword to keep next to my alarm clock.
Just don't forget to STOP TALKING. This is pretty much the key to getting the menfolk to listen/absorb what you are saying. Say the thing, then stop.

Early in the relationship is not the time for long, painful stories full of nuance. The thing about the menfolk (in my (perhaps too experienced) experience) is that they mostly don't understand the context of many kinds of sexual trauma ladies experience. Even in my enlightened circle of men who consider themselves allies, there are plenty whose definition of and beliefs about rape would have been perfectly at home 50 years ago, if not longer.

And a young/newly landed sort of man-fish is more likely to be thinking "why doesn't she just get over this thing that only *almost* happened but didn't actually happen, and maybe if we break up she'll say that *I* caused trauma too and what time is it is it too late to order pizza now the new Call of Duty totally rules I think I will play once she stops tallllllking." (That is, of course, a certain kind of fish... but a very common fish in my waters.)
1 reply · active 596 weeks ago
you have my permission to drop any and all of these males from your life and replace them with colorful aquarium fish
Um, hey there Mallory, where might one enter a submission for please-be-my-internet-best-friendship?
Also, both sets of advice are tops. I know times when I should have applied them, and times I wish I’d had the presence of mind to give them…
The sea, she calls's avatar

The sea, she calls · 596 weeks ago

"Taking to the sea" may eclipse my use of "move to some liberal Scandinavian country" or "throws self away".

BRB, just taking to the sea.
When I saw Mallory's tweet about this post I thought it said "Remember that you always have the option of talking to the sea" and I am... vaguely disappointed.

However if any Toasties know how to cross-stitch I would pay you for a sampler that said "Remember that you always have the option of taking to the sea."
I would lay down some ground rules, in a matter-of-fact way, about what your comfortable/not comfortable with. If he can't respect those, then it's time to git.
"Is he consistent about small things? Does he do the things he says he’ll do? How does he respond to your developing closeness? When things progress “more quickly than you expected,” is it because he is prone to sudden, rash declarations" Heed this, for it is how I got my heart broken this summer!!! Though it my case it was a lady-type person.
The importance of having difficult conversations when the sun is shining cannot be overstated. That is brilliant advice for anyone prone to having moods and feeling emotions.
Rain and clouds during a tough day: "EVERYTHING IS AWFUL, EVEN THE SKY AGREES, THAT'S HOW THINGS WORK IN MOVIES AND SO THAT IS HOW THINGS WORK IN LIFE."
Sun during a tough day: "THIS IS HARD BUT IT'LL BE OKAY BECAUSE IN THE MOVIES WHEN THERE'S SUN, IT'LL BE OKAY."
CurrerBelle's avatar

CurrerBelle · 596 weeks ago

O glorious warrior spinsterhood. I have found that which my soul loves; I only did not know it's name until now.
I just want to say THANK YOU Mallory. I've come back to your advice and am applying it to a likewise delicate situation with a gentleman caller. The thought of warrior spinsterhood, taking to the sea, building a misandrist army and other such delights gives me great hope and courage! I don't comment enough Toasties, but I feel so much solidarity and support from this site and your comments. I learn so much and think and laugh so much, so THANK YOU.

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