As a Person With Child[ren] who is, for some reason, often the only person with child[ren] you know, I am frequently asked “are there sites/forums for moms or soon-to-be moms that aren’t total garbage?” “No,” I usually say. “They are all garbage.”
(Sidebar: there are many, many wonderful writers who are moms who write about being moms, and conversations about parenting are valid and deserve space in the public discourse, share your favourites in the comments! I just find that sites occupied by many writers devoted ENTIRELY to talking about parenting are almost always garbage, and parenting/pregnancy forums are hellscapes devoted to metaphorical-dick-measuring and the dissemination of medically-unsound information.)
I will not, today, talk about the wretched hive of scum and villainy that is the Mothering.com forums. I am here to praise a good place, not to bury a bad one. I’ll be back for you, though, Mothering.com. Watch yourself.
I am here to talk about the DWIL Nation forum, on Babycenter. Because it’s great.
*
What’s DWIL? DWIL is an acronym for “Dealing With the Inlaws,” often extended to “Dealing With the Inlaws and Family of Origin.” DWIL is an oasis of REAL TALK in a sea of generic Babycenter forums about generic baby-related stuff. DWIL is where the women on your birth board (your birth board is the month you are due, so, for example, I am linked to Oct. 2011 and Dec. 2014 and will be forever) send you when you post about a real clusterfuck going down with your mother-in-law, who was a total angel until you had a baby but now she’s a FREAK, and they think it’s time to escalate.
(Sidebar 2: I don’t even HAVE a mother-in-law. She’s dead. I understand that she was a lovely person. My other in-laws are delights, except for [REDACTED WHO DOESN’T EVEN INTERNET.] I just enjoy reading about other people’s drama while trying to nurse or while reclining on a divan, and I’m guessing you do too.)
It is a forum with strict guidelines and warnings for posters. It is not for wusses. Your post WILL be automatically cut-and-pasted in case you get offended by REAL TALK and decide to delete it. It is an ADVICE BOARD. “Not a vent board,” as they say. This is because you’ll get newbies who show up, describe a situation they are just whining about and have no interest in fixing, and then say “I was just venting, I don’t need advice” when people are all “girl, you need to shut this down and take control of your business.” TAKE IT ELSEWHERE. These women are here to TELL YOU WHAT TO DO WITH YOUR SITUATION.
Why Is DWIL the Best?
1. Well, first of all, and let’s put this out here right away: people have horrible relatives who do nutty shit, and it’s super-fun to read about it. I’ve seen people with mother-in-laws who ordered lactation drugs from Canada so they could breastfeed their grandchildren. I’ve seen people with fathers-in-law who get deeply offended they are not welcome in the birthing suite and burst into floods of manipulative tears. I’ve seen baptism tantrums and lawn tantrums and stolen Thanksgiving leftovers and demands to name your kid after a dead relative you hated and unwanted, unexpected wheelchair ramps being installed on the side of your house and all manner of fuckery. And seriously un-funny shit too, (not that these other things aren’t serious), but stuff like “my husband was abused by his parents and now they don’t understand why we don’t let them babysit.” And there are people dealing with people who are clearly mentally ill, and need real help establishing boundaries and disconnecting from situations that are deeply toxic for them and their kids. You’re going to hear “crazy” and “psychotic” tossed around a lot, this is not a forum that is deeply steeped in awareness about ableism, so we’re clear. Know where you’re headed!
2. The advice is good. Oh, don’t get me wrong. You often have to tone it down for reality. The women on here have dealt with such dysfunction and disrespect that they have hair-trigger settings for going nuclear, and, as a Canadian, I would literally never be able to pull off half this badassery. But what I LOVE is the message of self-respect and empowerment that shows up.
“Your husband is allowing them to treat you like garbage. Tell him to get off his mom’s fucking tit and back you up.”
“Say ‘that won’t work for me.’ Say it again. If they keep ignoring you, get your Tupperware of pasta salad, pack your kids, and go home.”
Something I’ve picked up, personally (I think it comes out of Al-Anon, but has really taken root at DWIL) is the acronym JADE (Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain) as in “you need to stop JADEing with this lady and just say ‘no.’” You can use that in your LIFE. You don’t need to JADE if it’s your own damn business.
It’s…pretty feminist, really! And the RADICAL notion that you don’t have to take shit from people just because they’re related to you knocks a lot of women on their asses. The women of this board will tell you if you’re the problem. Sometimes it’s you, after all. “We live with my husband’s parents so I can afford to stay home with the kids and they are always up in our business.” I BET THEY ARE.
Fix it. Read this book. Get a better therapist. Block that person from Facebook. Leave. Ask for what you want, demand what you need. You’re the mom. We’ve been there. I live in Tulsa, I can help you.
3. It’s a wildly diverse group of women (and some dudes, to be fair.) Ethnically, culturally, religious-y, it’s a QUILT of women who have people trying to FUCK UP THEIR SHIT, and they have radically different notions of good parenting. And that turns out not to matter a whole bunch at all. I’ve seen moms who want their in-laws to stop trying to get them to circ their sons backed up by moms who would NEVER consider not circ’ing, because NO ONE IS THERE TO DEBATE YOUR CHOICES, they are there to help you stand up for your rights as a parent to make those choices. Your kid, your rules.
Do you worry that sharing DWIL is going to ruin DWIL?
No, I don’t really think that boundary-stomping inlaws read The Toast, honestly. And it’s a public forum, it’s out there in the world. But don’t prove me wrong, kids.
Tags: drama, family, feminism i guess, llamas, moms, relationships, the internet
Welp, I know what I’m going to be doing tonight!
I am always so glad to see a community that advocates Doing It. Doing something. “If you don’t like something, change it.” So much of the internet can become an endless echo chamber where people who are on the same side just endlessly discuss how right they are, and how everyone else sucks rocks, and when someone has an actual problem there’s no action–just endless talking about how the people causing the problem are wrong. Words. Actions. Change it.
I’d never heard of JADE before now, but somewhere in life I picked up on the “just say no without giving an excuse that gives abusive people more options for rationalizing their terrible behavior” thing, and it has revolutionized my relationship with my mother (who will not even be told that I have children until they’ve graduated from high school because BOUNDARIES). Anti-JADE for life.
(My mother internet-stalks me and is probably reading this right now. Hey, ma!)
BOUNDARIES! BOUNDARIES! All the love in the world for B-O-U-N-D-A-R-I-E-S!
I think it was actually on the Toast that I read “‘No’ is a complete sentence.” I used it in a talk a while back and got enthusiastic agreement from my audience.
Miss Manners has a variant of this, specifically for people who ask you to do something you don’t want to do.
“I’m afraid I can’t, no.”
“Why not?”
“It’s just not possible.”
“But whyyyyyyyyyyyy?”
“It won’t work for me.”
Repeat until intrusive busybody gives up and goes home. NEVER give a reason because then busybody will start finding counters to your reason. It is perfectly polite and effective.
I love Miss Manners and her perfect, elegant, icy shut-downs.
Miss Manners is, I’m pretty sure, a spacewitch.
I like the phrase, “I’ve thought it over, and I’ve decided” as the backstory for any “no”. Not that one is needed. But it is a firm statement that is helpful in some situations.
I was on the September ’95 boards at Parents Place, back in, you know, 1995 when there weren’t so many billion options available for online mommy stuff.
And then the baby was late and I was (not literally, just emotionally) kicked out of September and into the October group, which was all tight-knit and everyone was BFFs and ‘who is this Mel person again?’ about it. Nearly ruined me for online communities.
Fortunately I found the working mom board there, and they were open-arms about life, and eventually a bunch of us just moved to a forum of our own and we are sensible and supportive and smart and it became the basis of all of my online interactions. (Also the basis of the name ‘daki’ which made sense at the time.)
I love a community where people tell you what to do but don’t yell at you if you don’t end up doing it.
This sounds excellent. Ugh, I feel like I might actually be able to use this sometimes for my family/parenting-related woes. We don’t have massive problems, but I could sure use some Real Talk Advice ™ sometimes.
THIS IS THE BEST! “Fix it. Read this book. Get a better therapist. Block that person from Facebook. Leave. Ask for what you want, demand what you need. You’re the mom. We’ve been there. I live in Tulsa, I can help you.”
Yes! The combination of “I’ll tell you what to do” and “I’ll help you do this hard thing IRL” is everything.
I can’t get past this sentence:
“I’ve seen people with mother-in-laws who ordered lactation drugs from Canada so they could breastfeed their grandchildren.”
I know. And I think my MIL is crazy for hording baby clothes for her future grandchildren since before we were married. tl;dr version: she isn’t.
Ok, that thread’s not real, though, right? Within 24 hours the grandmother goes from disapproving of breastfeeding, to buying lactation drugs and demanding the child stay with her every weekend (in a text message), to attempting to kidnap the kid, to a restraining order, to violation of the restraining order and ending up in jail, to OP’s family hiding out of state while they sell their house. With conveniently-cool sister-in-law conveniently living in the house so she can update the OP/forum on what the grandmother is doing when she’s not around the OP.
Isn’t this the plot synopsis for LOVE YOU FOREVER? Grandma, step away from the ladder!
I love this comment forever. That book is the creepiest damn thing I ever read, and the illustration of the old lady cradling her adult son by her crazy midnight ladder will stay with me always.
OK, here’s where I ruin it for you: The story of that book’s creation (which I only googled because of something I read on this very site) is so sad and touching it actually made me cry. I still think the book is batshit, largely because the illustrations make it seem literal and not fanciful, but it does come from a very sweet place.
Yeah the most recent update… The OP has shot and killed the MIL (to keep her baby safe). I was really interested in this forum, but the full-on support of this OP’s story makes me question it a bit, to be honest.
DO NOT TELL MY MOTHER OR MOTHER-IN-LAW THIS IS A THING. They are not to be trusted.
1. circ?
2. ……llamas?
Haha read the group’s sticky post of commonly-used acronyms and got it. Also:
CBF = “cat butt face”, ie: the pursed-mouth expression made by one who is upset
The acronym list. Wow It’s great and covers situations I never could even have imagined. Are there sociologists who studies these things?
I was once upon a time in a babycenter group… but there was weird drama I didn’t understand and I got bored.
I freaking love this acronym list
lololollllll that is awesome
Could you (or someone else) link the acronym list for my bab-at-finding-things-brain? Please?
llamas = drama llamas, people who just like stirring shit up.
actually, as an avid DWILer, I’d like to clarify this a bit…the llama is an animal that lives in all of us that lives on drama…so when we read a juicy thread, it is said to “feed our llama” 🙂
WHY DOES THERE NEED TO BE AN ABBREVIATION FOR CIRCUMCISION
Gotta cut some off.
I can’t like this enough.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaaa
Oh hey, I guess that was as funny out loud as in my head. 🙂
For reals. I used to work the circ desk at the public library. Guess I’m a mohel now.
Re: Sitcoms. I’m not a mom, or even a new parent (my kid is a teen), but my wife and I have been enjoying Lennon Parham and Jessica St. Clair in Playing House, which they created/wrote/star in. Pretty neat show.
Also, I may just go read horrible in law stories forever. My in laws are great… my parents are (or were, in my Mom’s case – she chilled) the horrible in-laws.
Good! I need a new forum to be addicted to. The one I’m on now is wallowing me down in despair and rage.
Also, they are all garbage. I was so addicted to The Bump message boards with my first baby and it was like the only thing I could do with my mind. But it was such shit to be told over and over, you are doing it wrong. If you have a question you are dumb. Add this badge or you aren’t one of us. ARE YOU ONE OF US?! ARE YOU? Also, your baby name is ass.
“I’ve seen people with mother-in-laws who ordered lactation drugs from Canada so they could breastfeed their grandchildren. I’ve seen people with fathers-in-law who get deeply offended they are not welcome in the birthing suite and burst into floods of manipulative tears. I’ve seen baptism tantrums and lawn tantrums and stolen Thanksgiving leftovers and demands to name your kid after a dead relative you hated and unwanted, unexpected wheelchair ramps being installed on the side of your house and all manner of fuckery.”
– Rutger Hauer’s first, superior improvisation
(I honestly haven’t finished the article, I’ve been laughing so hard at the grandmother with lactation drugs. Not because it’s a nursing grandmother, but because it’s someone who thinks boundaries are just life’s little challenges. My advice would be to run the fuck away, because you cannot win against that level of fuckery. It’s like trying to reason with tiger.)
It’s funny, but that granny is now in jail, there’s a restraining order in place, and the poster has had to flee the state with her child. Shit gets real over there.
Incredible. Incredibllle. I tell my newly pregnant friends to just stay off the internet (the only parenting advice worth giving), but I hereby rescind my wrongheaded ways. My in-laws are generally way too nice, so I need to live through someone else’s drama.
I have some friends who love The Longest Shortest Time podcasts. I’m mixed on them. There’s some good, powerful ones and some I think are on the neurotic side, but they’re pretty damn non-judge-y for internet parenting content. I mostly stopped listening because they’re usually pretty heavy and kinda bummed me out.
Yes! I like the Longest Shortest Time a lot, but I haven’t listened to it much since the story about a woman going through a stillbirth. It was a beautiful story, but just too sad!
Also, this place sounds amazing, and will they please open up to non-in law, non-parenting advice? Like one day a week, that’s all.
Yes, please.
Might want to check out Captain Awkward for a good general advice column that helps with boundaries and wording your JADEs, if you’re not already familiar with it! A great resource.
Actually, posters do on occasion post about friends, coworkers, neighbors, etc. if you have a real problem with boundary stomping from a non-relative, the advice works there as well. I originally landed there a few years ago because of a co-worker. Been a sort of “regular” ever since.
I had NO IDEA that circumcision was such a controversial topic until my book club had 3 babies in the space of a year, all of them boys, one of them mine, and mine the only one who kept an intact penis. My good friends who I’d had for 7 years were all of a sudden raging that I was giving my boy HIV. It’s died down but, but yeah: people can be very precious about other people’s penises.
Between people who are precious about their own and people who are precious about other people’s, we pretty well have penises covered in this society.
I found out it was controversial my senior year in high school. We took a trip to DC for government, and there was a sole protester on the steps of the Capitol Building with a sign reading “Stop Circumcision Now.” The “C” was all cut off and bloody, and he was serious. I just assumed he must have had a seriously botched job down there.
I’m getting a “Error 404 Not Found” on the link to the DWIL. I can just, you know, google that shit, but I thought you might like to know.
This is an advice column junkie’s idea of heaven. Just read some of the lactating MIL thread. Wow. There are some serious mental health issues. Makes my garden variety passive aggressive MIL look like a peach.
I can’t WAIT to dig into this forum – it’ll help pass the time on days with no new Dear Prudie.
i am not a parent but i am somehow a member of trollswithwoodenspoons[dot]com which is my favorite parent-focused board that is also open to non-parents. It’s a spin-off of MDC (which is a very woo-y schools are evil and so are vaccines and why treat your cancer with poison when homeopathy exists mama place) and it has become a cool board that has long discussions about serous topics not just parent-y things. if you are interested i think it is a good place
Shit I just went and read the first post (“dad’s mom”) and I sense an imminent and loong trip down the rabbit hole.
A new internet rabbit hole was simultaneously absolutely totally and absolutely not the thing I need in my life right.
Down we go!
Send help. I just read “feeling insecure about using MIL as childcare” and I am never coming out again. Holy cow (the advice is indeed awesome).
Well work settings finally actually prevented me from being unproductive, babycenter is blocked for social networking. Probably for the best…..
I am addicted to Babycenter. I mostly just stay on my birth board, but it’s all amazing. It’s like living in reality TV! Plus once in a while there is something helpful being said.
Oh man, JADE. I learned about that when I was simultaneously in therapy for an anxiety flare-up, and working with a sociopath (who probably contributed to the anxiety flare up). Identifying and moderating those behaviors around difficult people is so, so helpful.
[I think the link to the forum at the end of the intro needs an http:// ! Unless you didn’t REALLY want us to leave the-toast.net…]
I’m amazed and astounded that the lactating mother-in-law is not just a forum legend from eons ago, but literally ON THE FIRST PAGE, TODAY. (part two of a thread, but still.)
Gosh no, we’ve had several MIL’s attempt to nurse their grandchildren over on DWIL. Apparently the only way to comfort the child was by whipping out their crusty old tit and sticking it in the baby’s mouth. I’ve been a DWILer for about five years now. It’s not for the faint hearted.
LOL, I know, I saw that and thought OH I wish this was the first lactating grandma on here!
TIMELY. SO TIMELY. (Telling the news to the in-laws today and I haven’t unclenched since I woke up.)
I love Babycenter, or as my nurse practioner calls it: “Oh, the good website.” Then we talk about “angry lady” literature.
Best of luck! Sending icy-cool spacewitch vibes your way.
I gratefully accept all such vibes, and have seriously been practicing channeling ice-cool spacewitches so thank you very, very much.
OMG, I forgot about the time I used to hate-read mothering.com forums obsessively! I feel good that I got out of that.
I am not a mother, but I listen religiously to the podcast One Bad Mother. They make parenting sound like a reasonable amount of scary to deal with, for a person who wants to be a parent.
Biz and Teresa are just so awesome and there is never any judgement about anyone’s parenting choices, which is lovely to hear. I definitely fear the constant judgement that will rain down when I spawn.
And, I am excited to hear about a place to get concrete advice about crazy inlaws, as I do have crazy inlaws and will need concrete advice on how to set boundaries with the boundary-less.
Re-posting the URL: http://community.babycenter.com/groups/a4725/dwil…
Regarding naming your baby after a relative:
My middle name is my grandfather’s first name. My mother always insists she never named nobody after nobody else; she names kids things because she likes the sound of it (for example, my first name is popular among boys of my generation, but mom insists it has nothing to do with the rising popularity at the time of a certain movie star). Anyway, when I was born and named MovieStar Grandpa, my aunt threw a fit. She told mom that she had not named her two boys after Grandpa because she thought mom would have wanted to name her own eventual son with the name, and not just as a middle name. Mom is probably the only person to ever tell that woman to shut up, but there are many many people who should.
Oh, names. Sigh. My mother has Ideas about what constitutes a ‘good’ name. When 3rd child was born, the Handsome Sidekick and I were trying to decide about the order of her name (which should be first and which should be middle). Meanwhile, my mum was having conniptions because the baby was two days old and did not yet have a name!!!, and what’s more, the name we had in mind? ‘Oh, don’t call her THAT!’
So I said to her, the child would have a name when we were ready, and that she (my mother) would just get used to whatever it was that we called her. And she was very silent on the matter after that.
I mean, really, Why would you mess with the mother of a newborn? We’re basically superheroes for the first week or so until the enormity of it kicks in.
I do not have children but I do have parents with boundary issues, and I also found this forum incredibly helpful.
I love communities that are all “you can do it stand up for yourself YOU ARE WORTH IT.” I’ve found a couple online communities like that (especially with Captain Awkward and Ye Olde Hairpin and the Toast this past year) and it’s fascinating to realize that I’ve definitely changed for the better because of it. Especially because these communities are advice-driven rather than “we’re all here at the same time”-driven — the former fosters this really warm, kind space that is invaluable and hard to find.
If this is at all relevant for you, I have found the reddit community “raised by narcissists” (reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists) to be a similarly really helpful, good-advice-giving community. Dealing with people, especially family, with narcissistic tendencies is a real mind-f*ck and the folks on here are fantastic about giving advice that’s both no-nonsense and caring and supportive.
DWIL brought me out of a dark place a few years ago when I went looking for the term FOO (family of Origin) since I had recently cut off my entire one. Since finding these amazing people, I visit on a weekly, sometimes daily, sometimes hourly (those lactating grandma threads are pretty compelling y’all!) basis. DWIL may not have saved my life, but its saved my sanity many times over. Thanks for sharing what to a lot of us is the closest thing to a “family” we have.
DWILs is my spirit animal. I found it when I had to effect some moderately weird boundary enforcement four years ago and I still read to this day.
Lactating mothers-in-law is not even the craziest of it. At least one poster’s MIL tried to kill her via food allergies. There was another whose family broke into the house to kidnap her and her baby at gunpoint.
But the most useful part of the forum, for me, has been seeing how to detect and fix negative interactions in broke families. Once someone points out a pattern, tells you why it happens and tells you how to prevent it from happening again, it’s awesome.
Oh man, regarding your first line, you are going to have one hell of a quest:
http://the-toast.net/2013/10/22/your-spirit-anima…
Now I want to tell inlaw stories. Like my mother-in-law does the thing where she ignores me and pretends she can’t hear me when I talk. At first it was enraging but then I was like, wait, this is pretty great, I can just go into my happy place and imagine myself winning the World Series or being Florence Nightengale instead of paying any attention at all to this conversation! She of course complains then that I “seem awfully quiet.” Whatever!
I try to be compassionate because she’s got, like, a lot of emotional stuff going on. But SERIOUSLY it’d help if she’d at least try to be a grownup. And this is why you should not marry someone without meeting his parents first.
Yayyyyy this is awesome and terrible (awesome because this is exactly the kind of thing I love to read, terrible because it’s work’s busy time and I really don’t have time to read it right now but probably will a little bit anyway)!
The women and men of DWIL do not want you to come there to be entertained during nursing sessions. We are not the Kardashians. We are real people with toxic family dynamics who want to help each other. Our pain is not for your enjoyment.
Oh, I’m sorry about that! I definitely think a lot of us on DWIL do enjoy the messiness and the fun threads (so much of DWIL is the lighter side), but most of what I wind up talking about in this post is the advice, and, as I mention, the incredible work of boundary setting and disconnecting from dysfunction that goes on. It’s not all about llamas, by any means, and I’m sorry that’s how it came across. I genuinely admire DWIL and it has taught me a lot.
I am a member and actively post (comments, mostly) on DWIL. I LOVE LOVE LOVE this group. There are soooo many mothers out there being railroaded by their own families and their inlaws and they NEED the DWIL board like they need oxygen. Just yesterday I saw a poor mother with her 2mo old baby, only the grandmother had pushed the mother aside and took over the baby to the max. Baby was in a stroller and Made a comment about how cute he was. Grandmother talked right over the mommy and said thanks and proceeded to go on and on about the baby as if it were hers. Never mentioned the mother. She even said “poor baby boy went thru almost 24hrs of labor”, as if it was only the baby going thru labor, and nothing to do with the mom. I looked at the actual mom of the baby and she looked like she was mad as hell and had watery eyes like she was about to cry. I ended up squeezing her arm and said “congrats on the baby, he’s absolutely beautiful” and walked away. I wrote on a piece of paper the info on how to find the DWIL board, walked up to her again and told her she needed this place, and good luck to her, that I’m sorry for her, it looked like she had her hands full with the grandparents.
DWIL is awesome, the advice is straightforward, no bull crap, but you do need to put on your big girl panties if you post your own topic. And get it out of your head that not having the grandparent/grandchild relationship is detrimental to the child. A grandparent that has zero respect for the child’s parents does far more damage to a kid then having no grandparents at all.
I could go on about this all day long, so I will stop here. DWILs is awesome and a huge lifesaver. If only I knew about DWIL before my kiddo was born, I would have had the birth and post partum experience I didn’t know I deserved. Instead it was ruined by my mother in law, because I didn’t speak up well enough to make my wishes known. I was too worried about hurting feelings. Well, she didn’t give a crap about me, so why should I have cared about her? Anyway, DWIL is a lifesaver and I give it 100
I have to recommend the forums of babynames.com. it’s a paid message board, but worth it and that means there are no trolls. The atmosphere is very welcoming and understanding of differences and parenting styles and because of the naming boards, it’s not parents only – we have childless and childfree members who get sucked in because they like names, so we talk about a lot of non baby stuff, too. (And let’s be honest, it’s the babynames.com message board, we are all a little crazy.)
oohhhhhh I will be reading this. I’m in the process of planning my wedding and my future mother in law is already trying to guilt me into agreeing to lodging with “the family” (including the in-laws, siblings, spouses, and grandkids) in a vacation house during our wedding. I am trying to establish boundaries out of the gate but if she doesn’t let up, I will take great glee in hissing to my mister that he needs to “get off the tit and back me up.” HISSSSSS
Omg, I have DWIL open in another tab RIGHT NOW! The Lactating Mother in Law had all my attention last night, my husband was reading all over my shoulder.
I don’t have kids but the forum was recommended by a friend after I mentioned that my mom was giving me issues with her family who I’ve cut off. (side note: I’m so proud that I didn’t use a single acronym in that statement but I also wish I had, the DWIL language is my favourite!) I’ve found that the language on teh forum isn’t always great (slurs, ableism, etc) but the advice is usually spot on and it has reminded me more than anything to trust my gut and my heart and what I feel is best for me. So great.
Hi. I just stopped in to say thanks for the great article – I laughed, I cried, I refilled my glass of Rumchata.
But mostly it’s good to find someone who actually gets us. Now I have to go pretend to do something productive.
Doffing my cap to you QMT and raising a glass of rumchata to toast the awesome job you and the other Qs do.
This has been the BEST DAY EVER!!
It’s not that no other board or site has ever mentioned us before, but there’s usually a lot more cursing involved.
I’m not a parent but I recommended MUTHA magazine to friends who were–and they liked it so much they both ended up writing for it. The site definitely has a queer and nontraditional family bent, which frankly, a lot more of these sites could use. Also it was founded by writer Michelle Tea (Sister Spit, “Valencia”) who perhaps more people now know for her “Getting Pregnant” series at xoJane. http://muthamagazine.com/
Thanks for this link. I checked it out and have bookmarked it–looks like a very cool site.
this is amazing, but my favorite part is that it’s tagged “llamas.”
It’s totally worth being called all the bad names to know that at least one person “gets it”. Thank you for a lovely article.
drama llamas. right?
Oddly enough I am reading this and feeling pride as if my kid were getting an award. DWIL is not my kid nor did I birth it in any way but it’s beautiful and I love to see it get the attention it deserves.
Strangers coming together to empower others. It’s amazing stuff.
DWIL is the peanut butter to my jelly and the cheese to my macaroni.
You’ll use the skills they impart on you EVERYWHERE.
So glad I found them a few years ago.
Bahahahaha!!!! I remember the stolen Thanksgiving leftovers! Great memories!
It’s a great community, but unfortunately it’s being run into the ground by the “group owners”. One of them actually closed a thread today saying “you don’t get to offend a group owner and still get to ask advice here”. Not “break the rules”, or anything like that. Just offend her. Like, wtf? I’ve been a member for over 5 years. It’s too good of a place to be brought down by a loser with a power trip who actually believes that she “owns” a part of babycenter. Leadership starts from the top, and if ego trips and power trips are ruling that board, it will continue to lose its top contributors, and thus is luster.
<——bows deeply then waves enthusiastically from DWIL.
You’re welcome. Very very welcome.
Oh my gosh I am endlessly entertained by this grandmama who has taken lactation drugs in order to bond better with her grand baby even though she doesn’t even believe in breastfeeding. It’s just amazing. I want to meet this woman. I bet she has some stories. I sort of wish she was my husband’s mother.
The list of commonly-used acronyms alone is almost inconceivably entertaining.
“BEC = Bitch eating crackers, adopted from a popular meme with the caption: Once you hate someone, everything they do is offensive. ‘Look at this bitch eating crackers like she owns the damn place.’ ”
“CBF = ‘cat butt face’, ie: the pursed-mouth expression made by one who is upset.”
“DuH = dumb husband (derived from the nonsensical sound used when expressing ‘No kidding?’- – ‘Duh!’ “
Oh thank YOU. Many of my favorite non-parenting websites of feminism approach motherhood like it’s a diaper on fire, and the mom-focused websites make me want to hide inside my own uterus.
Since my uterus is currently occupied with my second child, I need more than just updates of fruit sizes this time around (avocado, in case you’re curious). I know, it magical, I get it, I just want the baby and until then I have nothing to do about it except read Internet. Mothering is a great place to gawp at the quilted lives of religious wheat berry eaters, but that’s about it. Makes me want to circ myself. My month board on What to Expect is a wonderful place to watch other women discover the formerly unknown region from belly button to knee, but I’m the type who’s seen her vulva previously. And Heidi Murkoff, Heidi Heidi Murkoff, who thinks I’m fat and don’t want to bone. Oh Heidi, I’m a grown-up woman. Leave me be. I’m so excited to learn about other people’s terrible parents.
I like Ask Moxie (for another useful parenting site).
Holy crap, my worlds have collided. I found DWIL right before my son was born and stayed there for a while. My dad isn’t abusive or toxic but he can be a Difficult Person and the posters there helped me deal with his behavior and accept the fact that trying to change him/make him see reason was only making me miserable. The no JADEing concept has been awesome and helps me in a lot of ways, not just with my family. My parents still cannot believe I sometimes say “no” to what they see as reasonable/important requests, but now the drama is kept way down since I just don’t engage/try to make them see it my way. DWIL DID kind of drive me off the board once they got sick of me having the same problem over and over (they can be impatient when a poster doesn’t immediately take advice that seems really harsh). Overall though, it was really helpful and the only reason I’m not there much now is because I can’t manage to read 99-page drama threads at work and maintain any productivity.
I love DWIL more than I can say. I’ve been reading it (and very occasionally commenting) for years – like before babycenter changed their forums all around years.
Those ladies do NOT mess around, and it’s so so fun to read whiny posts followed by a hairflip and a I’M LEAVING FOREVER from someone who can’t handle it.
I love DWIL more than I can say. I've been reading it (and very occasionally commenting) for years – like before babycenter changed their forums all around years.
Those ladies do NOT mess around, and it's so so fun to read whiny posts followed by a hairflip and a I'M LEAVING FOREVER from someone who can't handle it.
OK, here's where I ruin it for you: The story of that book's creation (which I only googled because of something I read on this very site) is so sad and touching it actually made me cry. I still think the book is batshit, largely because the illustrations make it seem literal and not fanciful, but it does come from a very sweet place.
Try reddit's /r/babybumps. It was pretty awesome during my pregnancy. Also, don't stress about the new moms groups! I was really worried it would be like high school but actually everyone at new mom's groups are super welcoming because WE'RE ALL IN THIS [EXHAUSTED] SHIT TOGETHER!
I love community-supporting-community. Hooray for giving DWIL a little signal boost. I am just discovering it thanks to you and I am very excited (as a non-baby-haver who is anticipating needing some DWIL help post-someday-baby…and hell, even now).
The mil ended up trying to kill the op and the op shot her in self defense and as a result the mil died. The op was just protecting her child.