Please send your etiquette-based questions to [email protected], subject line: “Ms. Proprietypants.” The archives can be found here.
I’m currently on a Bachelorette Party Planning list and, snaps to Mses. Markowitz and Moss because these emails could have come straight out of their column. The group has elected to go on an out-of-town weekend that doesn’t sound like something I would enjoy or be able to afford, so I said no! Easy enough. But I expect to get a phone call from the guest of honor asking why I won’t be there (…not super cool, but she’s great in other ways!), and I’m wondering what to tell her. I think that if I mention money (I’m a grad student), she/her fiancé might offer to cover me. I’m not looking to score a free trip (as planned, the weekend isn’t something I’d choose to do on my own behalf even if it were free), but if it weren’t going to cost me anything, I’d certainly have less of an excuse not to go just to make my friend happy.
On the other hand, I’m not super comfortable doing anything where I can’t pay my own way. And there’s a risk she offers to split it with me or something similar, which would still be too much for me to spend (I think the events will cost between ten and twenty times what I could have done without it becoming a financial burden.) Maybe I should just either lie and say I’m busy that weekend (and cross fingers that they don’t end up changing it to a different weekend), or try to gin up some gentle way to say I just don’t want to go, à la, “You know, I’m really not the best bachelorette party-goer, you will have a much better time with girls who are really into it.”
What do you think?
I am a little confused. Is the bride your real friend? Are you a bridesmaid? Are you related to the bride? How did you get on this list? Is the bride on this list? Can you just hit unsubscribe from this list?
I am not confused about why you would wish to avoid a bachelorette weekend. I have to admit, I have a hard time figuring out why anyone wouldn’t want to avoid such drudgery tarted up as SO FUN! And I am willing and able to help you avoid it. But it’s hard to know what tactic to take without knowing a little more about your relationship and obligations to the bride. You are right in suspecting that I am not pleased that she’s going to ask you why you can’t come, but since you think she will, let’s deal with it. I assume you guys aren’t rocking BFF jewelry, since you don’t seem to feel all that tortured about skipping out, nor do you seem at all inclined to bring up your reasons with her before she asks. But I think doing that is actually your best bet.
Generally, I think it’s polite to personalize regrets, even when it’s not strictly necessary to do so. If you sent your decline to the organizer or to the planning list, I suggest that you send the bride an approximation of the following email:
“So excited for your upcoming wedding to AwesomeFace, wooo! I just wanted to let you know that though I’m sad that I won’t be able to join for Hard Rock Biloxi’s “Party All Night!” Package Weekend, we should make a plan for me to buy you a drink sometime soon [if she doesn’t live locally, this can be a more open-ended offer; if she does, suggest specific times.] I hope you guys have so much fun in Mississippi and I was psyched to be invited, and I can’t wait to celebrate with you in June!” [If the bride isn’t on the list and you haven’t communicated directly with her about your absence, rephrase so that you are letting her know that you won’t be able to join.]
No, you are not actually “sad,” as it were, to miss this grisly pageant, but it is polite to say so, and one can imagine a situation in which you are, say “sad” that it is not going to be better and freer. Perhaps you are “sad” that you live in this world of hollow, oppressive, and tedious rituals that renders the pricey bachelorette weekend commonplace? I know I am!!! This pre-emptive email is handily both polite and evasive; it doesn’t really invite a lot of discussion, and it lets her know that you’re not passing out explanations willy-nilly. (I think maybe you were looking for a magical excuse that would shut down further discussion–and a direct and polite decline is the closest thing… but beyond that you’re kind of chasing a unicorn.) If she presses you further, you should say both that it’s a busy time of year (you are in graduate school; surely you must have some papers to write?) and also that you can’t afford it. If she offers to pay, no big deal: explain that it’s so kind of her and you so appreciate the offer, but there’s a lot going on at the moment and you’re going to have to miss out–same thing if she offers to split it with you. Politely, firmly, and breezily stick to your underfunded, overworked guns.
I feel like this should be effective–how much does she really care? (Why is she so obsessed with you??? Is there something clandestine and juicy happening that you didn’t mention?) But if she keeps pressing you, nothing will be gained by avoiding honesty. Social scripts like “I can’t make it” and “It’s a busy spring” exist for good reason–they lubricate sticky situations and they spare delicate feelings. But if she is insisting on forcefully wiping off the lube after every application (I am regretting this metaphor)/sticking her feelings in the middle of the road, there’s no point in said stilted scripts. If she is really pushing the issue, you need to tell her what you told me: “I can’t afford it, I’m not comfortable taking your money, and also I won’t have, or be, very fun. But I love you and am looking forward to your wedding!”
I am worried, though, that you are a bridesmaid. If so, and if she offers to pay, you might want to consider going. I believe one should make a little extra effort if the invitation of that dubious honor has been extended–and accepted. Make no mistake, I cannot and will not strongly insist that your answer should be different in this case, because to me bridesmaids are a fairly goofy institution that invites a lot of trouble and needlessly hurt feelings on all sides. It’s tough, then, for me to go around barking about how such taffeta-clad minions MUST behave. Just consider reconsidering, if that is indeed the situation? The worst that can happen is that you have kind of a shitty weekend and you feel weird about being poor–something that could easily happen on the regular without making your friend So Happy!
I have long wondered what the appropriate response to “thank you” is. I once knew a charming girl from California who responded to everyone with a cheery “of course!” I had never heard that before, and loved it. But on the other hand, I have always wanted to be one of those people who responds with “you’re welcome”—which always seems to require a presence of mind I do not have. So, what’s the ideal response? Or does it depend on the situation?
First off, it is never wrong to say “you’re welcome.” That said, it’s probably good to say it lightly most of the time, because the passage of time has resulted in its underuse, and as a result you might come off sounding more formal and/or as if whatever they are thanking you for was a really freaking big deal. But I maintain that it is all-purpose.
“Of course” is fine, but think about it before using it on its own, no matter how lovely and salty and wind-swept and blond the hair of the charming Californian was. Highly acceptable in response to:
“Thank you [for holding the door.]”
“Thank you [for the bottle of wine, kind dinner guest.]”
“Thank you [for handing me the remote from the coffee table because you are 18 inches closer to it.]”
On its own, however, it is a somewhat less acceptable response to:
“Thank you [for watching my despondent toddler while I gave birth for 45 hours.]”
“Thank you [for picking up my mail while I vacationed tropically and you did not.]”
Because those things are not actually a matter of course, nor were they “no problem”* (and they are never “sure.” “Sure” sucks.) In such cases, in which you actually went to some trouble, you may wish to elaborate. “Of course–it’s always so fun to have Maisie around; I hope you and Sir Claude had a blast and a half!” Elaboration is also good when you deploy a warm “you’re so welcome,” but is less necessary.
But with any of these, your… wait for it… tone is the most important thing! Raise it. Sound genuine, and do not affect the regal air of one who has been greatly inconvenienced but is long-suffering and/or benevolent.
*I concede that “It was no problem” is useful if the thanker is operating under the misbegotten belief that a non-problem was actually a serious problem. Otherwise, no.
Tags: advice, etiquette, ms. proprietypants, raising the tone
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When I worked as a phone rep for a mutual fund company, I underwent extensive customer service training. As a result, I will respond to every “thank you” with a “you’re welcome” to this day. We could also say “my pleasure”, but “of course”, “sure thing”, saying thank you back were all off limits.
Ooh, “my pleasure” seems like a pretty good one!
It’s nice for really heartfelt moments. But it can come across as a little pervy if your tone isn’t bubbly enough.
“My pleasure” is the required canned response for the poor teenage workers at Chic Fil A. This was pointed out to me once and now I can never not notice it again.
It’s required? I just thought they were all weirdos at my local one. Creeeeeeeeeeeeepy.
YEP. Consistency in weirdness above all!
I have multiple friends who have worked at CFA at some point in their youth, and it’s fun to troll them slightly by thanking them (even when it’s not necessary) because they can’t help replying “my pleasure!” (well, most of them can’t help it). It becomes a nigh-on Pavlovian response very quickly.
Ugh! Having worked several service jobs for huge corporations, my heart goes out to these employees.
Ughh some of the cashiers at Walgreen’s tell me to “be well!” after checking out, and it just unnerves me every time. (especially when I’m in there late friday buying “wine product” and marb lights 😛 )
Yeah, I work part time in a customer service job and we recently were reminded that the correct response to “thank you” is “you’re welcome”. I might work “my pleasure” in there to round out the monotony. I’ve gotten in the habit (picked up from people who trained me) of saying “no worries” or “no problem”, which we are not supposed to say.
Huh, I never got any formal instructions about it, but I’m more likely to say “no problem” to clients in a work situation (versus with friends/family), my rationale being that I’m communicating “I would do anything to make you happy, beloved customer!” but maybe I’m going about it totally wrong!!
My call center job taught me that saying “no problem” implied that the customer did have a problem we had to fix, which was not the message they wanted us to convey. “You’re welcome” and “my pleasure” were the only permitted responses. Call center jobs are awful but they do teach good phone etiquette, I guess.
My roommate somehow manages to make “you’re welcome” perpetually condescending, as if doing the nice thing was a huge deal (which she was not happy about) or she deigned to do some small thing for someone and she wants you to know it was beneath her.
As a result my go-to response has become a cheery “don’t even worry about it!”, though perhaps this works so universally because I don’t get asked to watch despondent toddlers, only despondent dogs, which is much less trying.
Somehow I got in the habit of saying “not at all” in response to “thank you,” and I don’t know how that happened, but I have to break that habit, because it’s a non sequitur that confuses those around me! “Of course” might become my substitute of choice.
In my experience, “you’re welcome” can sometimes come off snarky/not totally sincere if you’re not vigilant about tone, and I’m just awful at tone.
That’s my tic too, and I just realised the other day it doesn’t make any damn sense! I like “no worries!” but feel that can also come off almost flippant.
I think the key to “you’re welcome” is in the emphasis?
you’re WELcome! can sound snarky
oh, YOU’RE welcome! is more upbeat/pleasant sounding
Now I just want to start saying “you’re well-COME!”
(NB no this is actually a totally fair point and I agree with you, just playing)
My habitual response is worse: I say, “Oh – yeah, yeah!” As if I’m just agreeing with them that I should be thanked.
I really really like “my pleasure” provided it’s genuine.
I sometimes say “gladly!” because I am a behatted male character from the 1930s.
I actually find it kind of empowering to practice faking goodwill in response to thanks. As much as I would love to snap, “Make your own next time!” when my boss thanks me for her Nespresso and steamed milk with two Splendas, I’m proud of how good I’ve gotten at chirping, “My pleasure!” instead.
I quite often do ‘always a pleasure’ as a variation on this one.
“No problem” is my habitual response; now I am stricken with self-doubt and -loathing.
Me too! Sometimes it’s “no worries”. I’m so uncouth.
I say “no worries” most of the time. So you’re couth-er than me, at any rate!
Gonna start speaking Spanish only so I can just say ‘de nada.’
German’s also good. Na klar!
I thought that was Bitte ?
Bitte is “please” – pretty much the only German I know!
Bitte is both “please” and “you’re welcome”.
General politeness-word. It’s very useful, English needs one of those.
Bitte is everything in German: http://weknowmemes.com/2012/10/english-vs-german/
“Bitte” is “you’re welcome”–my German prof said “na klar” is more like “of course,” but I think it’s also an okay response to “danke”? Though really, sticking with “bitte” is fun, because if someone says “danke danke!” you can say “bitte bitte!” back.
Doesn’t that present the same problems as “of course,” or do people just use it no matter what?
My favorite is “je vous en prie” in French, which literally means “I beg you” or, I like to think, “Can we please stop talking about this?” But I think in everyday conversation, it’s usually passed over in favor of the French equivalent of “de nada.”
It’s so interesting to me that it is formally uncouth in English, but is in fact the primary/sole response in our neighboring languages (french, spanish).
I understand the dislike of it. You are, quite literally, self-negating. You provided a kind thing to someone else and they are moved enough to thank you for it; why follow that exchange of good feelings with self-deprecating? It’s quite similar to accepting a compliment; don’t be the person who responds with “oh, this dress really isn’t very pretty.” That said, as the examples above show, I’ll still use it for things that are super-small. If I’m already getting myself some napkins from the napkin dispenser it *really* is no problem to get some for you.
I’ve never had a hard time with “you’re welcome”, though. Maybe practice it in front of the mirror until it becomes not-weird? (Although quit before it becomes super-weird again, obv)
In Italian, “Prego” is both “can I help you?” and “you’re welcome”. Sometimes baristas will say it to you upon handing you your cappuccino, before you’ve even had a chance to say “grazie”, which always left me feeling a bit out of sorts.
In Russian, the words for “please” and “you’re welcome” are the same: Пожалуйста (pa-zhal-sta). When I used to speak a bit of Russian, it made remembering how to be polite both easier and kinda weird.
“Prego” also functions as “go ahead/enjoy,” especially re: food, which is why that terrible pasta sauce is called that. So no worries about a pre-emptive you’re welcome, they want you to enjoy it!
THAT MAKES SO MUCH SENSE NOW I UNDERSTAND THANK YOU
I prefer to think of it as “pray, go,” which is what I have said to all of the proud and/or prejudiced 18th century suitors who have proposed to me thus far.
I also say “no problem,” and I had never thought of it, or the implications of any of these responses, in fact, and now I wonder if I just bumble through the social world, leaving a trail of offended polite people in my wake.
If you do, I do as well.
Generally very polite people make a point at not being offended by other people’s blunders, so there you go!
Me too. Sigh. Thanks for making me feel inadequate, Toast.
Hey so I don’t know if this unenjoyable bachelorette party is going to involve, as was the case with the last bachelor party I went to, a trip to Dave & Busters, but if it will, perhaps I can help defray the cost by mailing you one of the WAY TOO MANY game cards I accidentally bought? (I was NOT drunk, just hurried and sloppy, which, frankly, in my view are worse.)
Hahaha this is the nicest offer, and greatly assuages my general ire at the world for being backed into such an unenjoyable corner! Alas Dave & Buster’s is not among the precise places on the itinerary, but yes you’ve understood the general idea. (An idea which, I should say, I’m certain the bride will fully enjoy, and so I def think she should do it–it’s just the opposite of fun to me.)
How do you respond if you are unhappy with the favor you executed? You did something for someone that ended up being more trouble than you think it deserved; do you communicate that? Do you bite your tongue? Do you passive-aggressively grab their shoulders, look murderously into their eyes, and say “YOU’RE WELCOME”?
I step close, draw my dirk from its scabbard, hold it at chest-height between us, and breathe out a husky, drawn-out “never again” as we look into each other’s eyes.
*eyebrow waggle*
Are you pulling my dirk from its scabbard? Or are you just happy to yada yada
But really, it all depends on what the favor was, who the asker was, and how predictable it was (for them, for me) that the favor would be such a goddamned chore.
If it was a terrible chore because they failed to provide me adequately (flubbed a reservation or order, didn’t give me paperwork or a reservation code, gave me the wrong address), I will certainly mention that. If it was just a one-of-those-days pain in the neck because unpredictable things went wrong, I don’t bother.
I opt for a passive-aggressively curt “you’re welcome”, but I don’t think that’s the ideal way to handle it.
ahahahaha no sometimes it is THE PERFECT way to handle it
If they’re a good enough friend and it was an honest mis-judgement all around, I wouldn’t hesitate to explain. I might take a moment to think through the right way to phrase it, but I’m imagining a basic:
“You’re welcome for (favor), I’m super-glad that it turned out well for you. I have to admit, it did wind up being way more work than I thought it would be, mostly because of (a, b, c, etc.). If this is the sort of (favor) you’ll wind up needing in the future, let’s figure out at the start how to avoid/negate (a, b, c).”
If (a, b, c) are the other person’s fault, either speaking up becomes twice as important (and somewhat more delicate), or just silently vow you won’t do that or similar favors again. But I do think it’s often worth speaking up even if it’s just a freak coincidence that caused the drama, in part because at the least, you’re telling them an entertaining story. (Ie, I can’t *believe* what happened with the subway delays when I ran out for that thing last weekend, that’ll teach me to not check the track work schedules in advance.) Hopefully, a good friend may ask you for favors again, but also account correctly for the size of favor.
I’ve also been on the other side of this. We had a friend cat sit while we were traveling for a week, but one of the cats had only recently come home from the shelter and wound up being way more distructive than the friend was ready for. A couple years later, the cat is calmer and the friend is a bigger fan of the cat, and he’s volunteered to cat-sit for us again. But in the meantime, we’ve gotten better at communicating with other potential cat-sitting friends.
p.s., if EVERY GODDAMNED TIME I do you a favor, it is ten times the chore that it should be, I will stop being available to do you favors.
If I end up doing you favors always on your schedule instead of mine, I am going to become unavailable most of the time.
If this favor I’m asked to do uses my expertise to recover from the last time you asked for my expertise, when I gave a lot of time and thought to your problem but then you ignored my advice, I am probably unavailable this time.
If you start treating my favors to you like they are favors to me, OH I AM NOT AVAILABLE. [See: the person who snapped “Well, I’m sorry” when she had to cancel our scheduled meeting for me to help her do A Thing. Dude, I was doing you a favor by meeting this week; now I am not available. Let someone else do you a favor so you can be snippy with them.]
Ohh, this last one has been bugging me lately. Lots of people have been approaching me since I went freelance like, “Hey, here’s something you can do for me, this should be easy for you” without acknowledging at all that what they’re asking for is a favor. Like, obviously this involves either skills you don’t have or time you don’t want to pay for, and in either case, don’t act like the work is negligible just because I do it all the time.
“My employer doesn’t allow me to make free birthday cakes/do free landscaping/insert employment related task here.” Then watch them boggle(wait you don’t have an employer), marinate(do they have an employer? who is their employer?), and clue(Ohhhhhh.).
Yeah, I am waiting for the day I have the nerve to smile brightly and recite a list of my freelance rates for [whatever].
It’s one thing if someone with whom I have a social relationship is explicitly asking for a favor, but once they take the approach of “You have the skills to do this and the free time, so I’ll let you,” I presume they must be negotiating to hire me or they’d be a little more conciliatory. (I don’t presume that at all; I know that 90% of the time they’re just assuming my time and work have no value. But that is their mistake.)
Close-lipped “mm hmm” with a slightly murderous look.
I think you’re just supposed to bare your fangs and lunge at them.
I sometimes pull a flat “Sure.” and end the conversation. Kind of unprofessional/rude but if they know it was a hassle and made you do it (coerced, commanded, whatever), I feel like they deserve to know that it wasn’t “No problem!” or “of course!”
I think the answer to that depends on the relationship with the person in question.
Growling is pretty universal, though.
“Uh-huh”
Shoot. I always passive-aggressively grab the shoulders of the grateful, look murderously into their eyes and say “YOU’RE WELCOME”. Even if it was no problem at all.
Is that wrong?
i misread this as ‘bite their tongue’ and was curious for a very long moment about the incredible life you must lead.
I stare REALLY CLOSELY into their eyes. So closely.
i love everyone in this thread soooooooooo much.
I say “sure” when I absentmindedly do things for strangers, like holding doors, because I forget some people will speak to you after such interactions.
Otherwise, “no problem” works for me a lot, and when it’s a big deal, like babysitting a friend’s infant while she’s going to mandated parenting classes or else a judge won’t consider her parenting plan with the douche father, I say, “Seriously, any time. It was great hanging out with TinyHuman, she’s a peach.”
Yeah, I also usually sat “Sure” or “Sure thing!” when sometimes thanks me for holding a door for them.
For things that are a bigger deal, I trot out the sincere, said-with-full-eye-contact “You’re welcome.”
At some point in high school I picked up a “no problem” problem and I have never been able to shake it. I can hear myself saying it too much, but I can’t STOP myself from saying it too much. But I do dream of the day that I accomplish the amiable “you’re welcome.”
Edited because the last sentence didn’t even make any sense.
I am that boat with you and it is a problem. There is a problem!
I spend all day every day on the phone doing things for people and I almost universally respond with “That’s no problem at all!” “You’re very welcome!” “It was my pleasure!” “Glad to do it!” “I’m just happy I can help!” and other lies.
your “and other lies” just made my whole day.
Thank you?
I’m glad! /notalie
The scariest thing is when you use an excuse for missing a bachelorette party such as “I’m so sorry, I have plans that weekend!” or “Unfortunately, I won’t be able to make it to NYC [from DC] for the party” and then THEY OFFER TO CHANGE THE WEEKEND AND HOLD IT ELSEWHERE.
So yes, direct but somewhat vague polite responses are the way to go. Though truly the best thing would be for brides to cease insisting that their decision to get married requires that all their female friends take a long weekend from work to go clubbing in NYC.
I was a bridesmaid for the first wedding among my friends out of college. The bride was widely acknowledged to have been a pain (and at least one bridesmaid actually cut off all contact with her over it), but my response was to start telling all of my other female friends that I don’t want that title ever again. I’m now extending the practice to invitations bridal showers and bachelorette parties. This allows me to (a) have a conversation about these things in the theoretical, before anyone’s specific invitation/behavior is involved and (b) not spare a second thought when I get left out of the bridal party about what it “means” for the friendship.
This Friday, I’m buying dinner for the bride and groom who I last ducked out of event attendance with. It will be such a good time! (Which is all to say, I 100% agree with you!)
RIGHT? I have somehow (OH GOD DON’T ASK) been roped into helping to plan a joint bachelorette for a friend and another girl, who happens to be my beloved’s ex-girlfriend of 3.5 years. They were discussing a date I could not attend, which was a relief, but have now changed it so I can come, which is awkward, because I sort of plan on having to work that weekend no matter what.
I really genuinely think everyone is just trying to be nice, but look, I don’t want to spend my over-budgeted $ on a weekend away to celebrate my boyfriend’s ex-girlfriend’s nuptials. That’s reasonable right? I am SO VERY ANGRY about being left behind for the stag party, which sounds like lots of fun and no ghosts from the past will be there. Fuck the gender normativity. Just fuck it.
Wait, what?? Robot, yours is worse than mine! 100%, you have to work that weekend. No way do you have to throw a bachelorette party for your partner’s ex unless you actually want to! Not being included in the stag party also sucks (you are talking to the right person for rage about gender norms being violently imposed in these things), but even if you can’t go to that (I take it they are the same weekend?), it’ll still be better not to do the bachelorette party. It sounds hellacious.
I can’t go on the stag because it’s men only. Rage. (My boyfriend made a strong pitch for a co-ed party, but this garbage won out again!).
And thanks! And good luck! We will all survive celebrating our friends’ joy!
YES THIS. It’s a huge honor to be asked to be in a wedding, but I also dropped somewhere in the neighborhood of three grand on weddings last year, not to mention a cumulative week of vacation days. The year before was even worse.
I have since instituted a strict “no more bridal parties of any kind” rule for which there is ONE exception: my brothers will both eventually get married, and I am their only sister so if their fiances ask, I will say yes or risk everyone in both families thinking I’m a total bitch. I’ve also instituted a slightly more flexible “no more weddings” rule whose exceptions include a wider family base.
The strictest rule of all, however, is the more recently instituted: no. more. baby. showers. ever.
I say “no worries,” which I’m sure makes me sound like Matthew McConaughey or Jack Johnson or something.
I was not aware that we were allowed to say anything other than “you’re welcome” …?
Am I a monster?
Yes. But, like, the Sesame Street kind.
I usually say “yup” or “sure” when someone thanks me for holding the door. Most other cases it depends on the situation.
But for the love of dragons, please say something to me when I thank you. Otherwise I will think you didn’t hear me and I’ll keep repeating myself like a parrot.
Does everyone really hate weekend trips with their friends that much? Or am I just going to the wrong (right) kinds of bachelorette parties?
ps I plan to have mine at Dollywood. Haters to the left.
Eh, it really depends. Weekend trips to a place that’s either cheap, or where someone lives (so everyone can crash) = fun! Weekend trips to stay in expensive hotels, where you have to miss work, and activities are “mandatory” = notsofun.
Nope! I have been known to skip the wedding and just do the Bachelorette. I live a long way from many of my friends and often can’t do both. If I don’t know the groom well, a weekend away with my girls is the way to go. It helps that my friends would (mostly) never go to Hard Rock Biloxi, but a weekend in an interesting location with a night at some trashy nightclubs? Yes please.
I think a group trip with actual good, mutual, open planning can be fun. Sadly, as our friends the “Hey Ladies!” have shown, not all events get planned like that.
Even with perfectly-executed planning, different tastes and life situations can make it hard to get one single plan that works for everyone. I think the group trip that five out of six embrace and one politely bows out of can be considered a success, if no one’s feelings were hurt arriving at that conclusion.
Weekend trips with friends: hella great.
Bachelorette parties=/=weekend trips with friends. You’re dealing with a strange power balance (everything is about The Bride, let us get weirdly obsessed with her wedding night and drape garlands of penises over her, &etc), a group of people who may or may not be your friends, and pressure to make it #sogreat! and things can end up…weird. If this has not been your experience, you are going to exactly the right kinds of bachelorette parties and you should hold tight to them.
Because if you can’t make it to a weekend trip with your friends, that’s too bad & they’ll miss you but no big deal (unless you have really needy friends, I guess), but if you can’t make it to a bachelorette weekend, you aren’t Committed Enough to your friend’s Big Day.
There’s also the reality that most bachelor(ette) parties include people who are not close friends with each other, and who often have very different interests and personalities. For example, the bride or groom’s sister or the bride’s mom might be included, or it might include different populations of friends, such as those from high school versus those from college or grad school (or from childhood home versus current hometown) who may never have met.
Yep, that’s a big part of my issue. There were some 15 people invited, and the bride is the only one I’d ever even met. I wish I was being invited on trips with friends!
The one rule I plan on making is that everyone must wear one thing that is sequined/bedazzled at all times. But that’s just because Dollywood, and it’s a good strategy for life in general.
(And by “make” i mean drunkenly yell about how great shiny things are)
I do get what you’re saying though – that does sound awful, and I guess I’ve just been lucky.
I am also confused. Are these just acquaintances? I would love a party weekend with any of my close friends right now, with the exception of one. When she asked if I wanted to go to Vegas for her hen party I said nope and took her for dinner, she knew I wouldn’t enjoy it, so it wasn’t an issue.
Can I come to Dollywood please. I’ll be a good sport and wear a penis hat.
PENIS HATS FOR ALL.
SEQUINED penis hats for all.
Dollywood, yes!! That sounds excellent.
I understand that a group trip made up of people who may not be good friends and probably have very different budgets and ideas of fun is a recipe for disaster … On the other hand, the sheer number of complaints about weddings on the Internet sometimes make me think everyone secretly hates their all their friends and all celebrations.
I live in New Orleans, and I see a lot of obvious destination bachelorette parties out and about. A surprisingly high proportion of these groups just look like they’re having a miserable time. There they’ll be, all done up with their sashes and buttons and whatnot, listening to a fantastic band, and sipping on their cocktails with the most glum, sour looks on their faces. More than once, I’ve said “congratulations” to the bride-to-be only to be ignored or given the haughty “why are you talking to me?” grimace.
I love my friends, mostly, but the horror of my friends’ friends is unmatched. Not always, of course, but I am pretty selective about the people I spend time with. With my own friends, I feel comfortable enough that they’re never going to, for example, break into a bout of light racism for comic effect, or otherwise behave offensively or boorishly. However, my friends, being by definition people kind and forgiving enough to put up with my own bad personality, tend to be more lax about who they allow into their lives.
re: Bachelorette party: consider faking your own death? Will also possibly get you out of the wedding if that is a thing you want to do.
“Of course!” as a “you’re welcome” substitute might be a Californian/Western states cultural thing, along with “Hella,” and stealing “no worries” from the Australians, all of which I use on a regular basis in non-formal settings. As do a bunch of my other NorCal friends and relatives. That or we’re all dirtbags of impoliteness, which I am also willing to believe.
I was thinking the same thing reading along. This side of the country is just so proudly, AGGRESSIVELY casual.
http://www.listen-tome.com/goin-out-west/
Someone in a Juicy Couture track suit and flip flops gave me and my BFF a weird look for going to a San Francisco brunch in dresses and hats and cute shoes. “Where do they think they are?” Juicy Girl whispered to her friend. “This is the *West Coast.*”
My best friend whipped around and said, “OH MY GOD TIKA. We’re on the West Coast of AMERICA. I thought it was weird that we didn’t go through customs!”
It’s a good thing we think we’re funny.
“You bet!”
I guess it’s kind of nonsensical, but whatever.
This is what I say, too. And my dad recently informed me (not in reference to me saying it, but to someone else saying “No problem” when he thanked them) that he HATES it when people say something other than “You’re welcome.” Keep in mind that my dad is like, a model Toast Dad, and very laid back (although slightly more crotchety now that he’s in his mid-70s, lol). I suddenly felt like a terrible person. This article is not helping me shake my new obsession with saying the exact right thing when thanked.
Eh, I already did something nice for them, so I definitely don’t owe them whatever they consider their ideal response to their expressing gratitude.
Also, who gets mad about stuff like that? I think if you’re peeving out at such arbitrary “rules”, it’s because you WANT to be angry about something.
I’m currently debating which overly-gender-normative “institution” I dislike more: the bachelorette party or the bridal shower. I know not everyone shares my negativity, but does anyone have a compelling argument for the superiority/inferiority/infuriating-ness of one versus the other?
Showers are much awfuler. If it’s your shower you have to awkwardly open gifts in front of everyone pretending to be surprised (though you probably picked it out) and everyone boredly watches you. There is so much fake at a shower. A good bachelorette party can be a pleasant evening or weekend with some friends you don’t see often enough.
Bachelorette parties have more exits, usually. Bridal showers, gah, there you are, pinned like a fly in a tulle web, feeling like the aunts will judge you if you sidle doorwards before the last gift is hoisted/passed around/vaguely admired through the stifling haze of dullness.
I once attended a co-ed shower for two very sweet friends, and after a slow eternity of gift-opening and card-reading, one of the XY guests leaned over to me and murmured, “Are all showers this boring?” I assured him that they were; he was appalled. “Why do you keep DOING them?” To this day, I haven’t come up with a good answer beyond a Tevye-esque “tradition, tradition!” shrug.
At least a bridal shower is over in a couple hours.
Wait wait what is a bridal shower? I have never heard of this. Is this like a baby shower but when you are pregnant during the wedding? What do you even do, what is it for?
I’m going to my first wedding this fall so I apologize if the above is a ridiculously stupid question.
I love this question, and am reluctant to steal your innocence. I also love that the nonsensical-ness of trying to answer this proves my point.
It is like a baby shower, but not for a pregnancy. It’s, well… apparently, you have to get together during the daytime with only your female friends/relatives around, who have brought you gifts, and do “games” related to getting married. And generally get fussed over. The “games”, much like baby showers, run the gamut from “meh” to… horrifying. On the plus side, there is often wine. Pray it’s not horrifyingly over-sugared.
WHAAAT?? oh god that sounds so awkward and uncomfortable I don’t understand why anyone would want that. I think…I think if I am ever invited to such a think I will gracefully bow out.
THEY ARE NO GOOD, AVOID AT ALL COSTS
(ThatOtherWench did a great job of explaining them.)
Showers suck, but I will attend ANY shower as long as they serve sherbet punch. That stuff is nectar of the gods.
I’ve attended one true bachelorette party. It was miserable. I had to buy over priced drinks and wear pink feathers and beads and drink out of a wiener straw. It was a pub crawl and I ditched them at the third bar when the cover was $15. Yes, I am a giant stick-in-the-mud.
$15+ cover? I would’ve bailed too. Stick in the mud party over here.
I don’t know what you’re talking about. $15 is a totally reasonable cover for a three-hour open bar. That was where they were going, right?
They can both be as tolerable or intolerable as you make them, but a “bachelorette party” can just consist of “hanging out with your friends”, which is a normal, fun thing to do. A shower is still going to revolve around gifts, which is weird.
ETA: “You” in this case = the bride and/or person planning the event.
I don’t hate either of them, but one of the things that I do strongly dislike is the habit of getting kitchen things from the registry for the bridal shower. This is probably stupid, but to me, gifts at the bridal shower (if there are gifts) should be for the bride alone – things like nice lingerie, spa services, fancy soaps, etc, which I believe is also the traditional route. Getting her kitchen stuff implies that the bride will be the one doing the cooking. I understand not wanting to buy the woman multiple gifts (when I went to my best friend’s shower, me being there at all was really the gift, and I was her Maid of Honor) and thus buying off the registry, but I really hate the idea that the stuff for the home the couple will be building together is really stuff for the bride (I mean, unless it’s obviously really for her, like if I had a spinning wheel on my registry).
See, the gender-normativity of both of the events is my main complaint. And some of them feature scripted feminitity taken to this extreme (I think I’ve heard of bridal showers that included being gifted the vaccuum cleaner from the registry) while others manage to tone it back, but for me, even the possibility of highly-prescribed gender performance being the center of the celebration is what gets my hackles up. This would include gifts of spa services or lingerie or whatever. From where I sit, they’re just all too gendered, and I get uncomfortable “yaaay”ing in environments like that.
I feel like “Best, Nicest Possible Wench” would be good at playing along with it all, and aspire to be more like that Wench. In the meantime, I’ll stick to being crotchety on the interwebs.
(Thank you for having this conversationg with me! I do not feel hostile towards your position nor intend to inflame!)
I’ve always viewed bridal showers as not necessarily giving gifts only for the bride, but for the couple and the bride is just the one there? Obviously this was not historically the case but it is how I kind of see it now–you register as a couple, your registry is for both of you, so here’s the bridal shower as an auxiliary gift-giving event so you can get more stuff from your registry. Hence the vacuum?
edit: this doesn’t mean that bridal showers are okay things, they are normally terribly uncomfortable and why isn’t there one for the groom where his male relatives come and play terrible games and make awful uncomfortable jokes about the names of his future children??
I totally get where you’re coming from on the gender normativity thing (that’s why I don’t like the kitchen appliances). But I’m also a semi-femme (demi-femme? soft femme?) cis woman who happens to like a lot of girly things, so I would welcome gifts of pretty lingerie or silk stockings or spa services because they are things that I, personally, like. (just as I would welcome gifts of really fancy yarn or nice crochet hooks/knitting needles or pattern books) I wouldn’t give those gifts to someone who I knew would not appreciate/want/enjoy them. Shower gifts can also be a great sunhat for the fabulous tropical honeymoon, or an amazon giftcard, or whatever the bride would enjoy. I just hate the whole “it’s all about the bride” thing that lets people get away with giving the bride things that I think ought to be for the couple (and things for the house ought, in my mind, to be for both of them).
I think the original intent of the wedding shower was partly to provide the bride with things for her wedding day/night and also married life. With the average age of first marriage getting older, most people who are getting married don’t need that (just as we also often don’t need many of the things we register for, and many registries are about upgrading rather than provisioning), but yet we still go through this ritual, because it is “tradition”. I actually haven’t been to too many showers, though I did have a good time at the ones I have been to. And at the aforementioned BFF’s shower, I gave an awesome toast that I wrote in the bathroom about 5 minutes before giving it and got lovely compliments from the women in her family, so I was happy (I’m always happy when I get to give a toast, because I am strange).
The thing about showers and bachelorette parties and many other customs (especially those related to weddings and/or babies) is that they CAN be incredibly gender-normative and awful and stifling, but they can also be about a group of people gathering together to celebrate an important life event with someone they love (or, you know, they can be both). But a lot of people do them because they feel that they are required activities, not because they have any desire to, and many of those same people have not given any thought to them at all.
I hate bridal showers! I was so mad when I realized that I had three weddings this year and that meant three bridal showers. I do not know a single woman who likes going to showers, so I don’t understand why the all insist on hosting them.
Anyways, question for all who want to weigh in– I generally buy off the registry for the bridal shower, (bc the registry is always sent with the invitation) and so then I do not get a second gift for the wedding. Is this wrong? I thought it was fine but after googling yesterday the internet tells me I am perhaps being rude?
But if I AM being rude, then fuck that — it’s not fair for female guests to be expected to shell out for twice the gifts.
Unfortunately, yes, you have to buy a shower gift AND a wedding gift (if you’re invited to both). I mean, per tradition/etiquette/what have you.
But it suuuucks.
What about the bachelorette party? I’ve only been to one, and I didn’t bring a gift because I didn’t think they were a gift-giving occasion, but a lot of the guests did so I felt fairly guilty and got her a better wedding present than I think I would have otherwise. My friend is super laid back and I’m pretty sure honestly did not give a fuck about extra gifts (which is probably why there was no bridal shower) but now I’m paranoid that every wedding-related thing involves yet more gifts.
I think small/cheap/gag gifts are bachelorette party appropriate IF YOU WANT but there is no etiquette rule about giving one. (Though I’ve been in that situation before, where I was the only one who didn’t get the person something, so I suppose it’s probably wise to have a box of condoms with a bow on it in your bag just in case?)
You are supposed to do gifts for both, which I 100% agree is absolute bullshit. And why I’ve stopped going to the bridal/couple showers if I’m going to the wedding (in cases where I can’t make the wedding, then I do hit the shower if possible).
They are incredibly boring and narcissistic events (I can’t think of anything more painful than to spend two hours watching someone open presents that I already saw on the registry so are in no way a surprise or interesting)– and unlike a wedding or other events, provide absolutely no fun or entertainment for the guests attending in return.
I really dislike bridal showers as an institution. The idea that it’s the female partner’s job to sit there and receive all presents for the couple and God forbid the man be anywhere near it is so gross and heteronormative to me. Even if it’s for a same sex couple, opening presents in front of other people is always so awkward. Nowadays there are so many gift-giving events associated with weddings, it can start to feel like a cash grab. I get that a lot of times it’s the bride’s mother or future mother-in-law throwing it and it’s nice to get people together to celebrate before the wedding, but to me it just feels like a tradition that hasn’t aged well, especially now that so many couples prefer non-traditional registries like honeyfunds.
But also, I’m way more down for getting drunk and acting a fool with penis necklaces.
Yes, yes, yes, this. I think for me, the heteronormativity (and materialism) horror is stronger for the shower, but my concern about logisitics and forced “SO FUN!” vibe are stronger for the bachelorette.
Both, however, share my gripe about singe-sex invite lists. Honestly, I can think of no good reason to have a social event segregated by sex. Or, as I try to put it in soundbite form: “I really am quite happy to be invited to social events without (dude) partner. I’m deeply unhappy when it happens because of our respective genital configurations.”
I hate any and all showers. I just hate the idea of throwing a party for people over the age of five where you have to give them gifts. (especially if I’m already going to get you a wedding present! I MEAN REALLY!) I find any excuse not to go to them (although I usually send a gift, because I’m not a terrible person, just a grouchy one).
Also I have never ever been to a (baby or bridal) shower where the whole tone wasn’t wholly infantilizing for the woman it was being thrown for.
I’m not a huge fan of bachelorette parties either, but at least the point of that is ostensibly to go out and have fun, rather than to give presents. (Also I have never been to the “enforced club crawl” sort. My friends’ parties were more of the “let’s go to the beach for the weekend and bring boxed wine” variety.)
Oh, bridal showers. Definitely. I am oldish and most of my friends got married before bachelorette party bloat set in. However, at a bachelorette party the victim of honor gets some say in the guest list.
On the other hand, I can remember many events which featured very nice older church ladies hooting in merriment over the lingerie they were bestowing on young friends and relations, none of whom would nhave chosen to have their Aunt Matilda give them lacy nothings and wedding night advice in public in front of people that taught their elementary Sunday School classes.
Escaping the ritual was the best part about being a spinster.
AUGH, I don’t think we have “bridal showers” in the UK (and bachelorette parties are called hen parties here!), but reading the comments about them, they sound just awful. Just… just awful.
Before I knew what one was, “shower” in this context just sounded really weird. A shower is where we wash. “Baby shower” still conjures up a great mental image of everyone just throwing loads of babies in the air at their pregnant friend, she’s there with an umbrella…
There’s so much about them that makes absolutely excellent sense about, oh, a hundred years ago. (Gifting housewares to a bride probably leaving the home and becoming a homemaker for the first time.) And I’ve heard tell of baby/bridal showers that devolve into your elderly female relatives describing the grossest/least-discussed portions of child-bearing/rearing/marriage. And yet instead of stopping this practice when it became irrelevant, we have this weird vestigial “tradition” that was probably only evolutionarily relevant for a tiny, tiny portion of human history. It’s worse than the appendix.
My problem with “thank you” is that when I worked retail/fast food & people would thank me when I handed them their food/stuff, I would say “thank you” back (as in, thank you for shopping here, etc.) & I’m still a little bit stuck in that habit even though there is almost no context in my current life in which that response makes sense.
OMG I do the same thing and it’s so awkward out of context of my job. Also, on the job I probably say “thank you” like 80000 times per customer on average–for handing over their money, for taking their receipt, for taking the books. arrrgghhhh.
“Of course” as an answer to “Thank you” makes no sense to me. I always think it is rude because it seems like “of course you are thanking me. I just did you a favor!” I understand logically that it probably means “Of course I don’t mind helping you!” or something. But in that case shouldn’t you just say “no problem?”
Lean hard into the grad school excuse while you can, girl. Even without the money issue, that’s got to be one of the best reasons for avoiding this kind of trip– no free time! Too many obligations!
It concerns me how standard these trips are becoming now, to the extent that if you’d just rather not go, you’re seen as not being “supportive.” I also keep hearing horror stories of these trips becoming longer and longer– one friend was expected to sign up for 10 DAYS of bachelorette activities! I haven’t been on a 10 day trip in my adult life!
I must be blissfully oblivious because I basically do not care what people say in response to me saying “thank you” in almost every context, major favor type things excluded. Like….I don’t give a shit, seriously.
ETA tone and who it is matters, but again only in the case of close friends or family doing Big Things
Off topic, but thank for the Sadie Saxton dose. Although I recently watched the newest episode of Awkward. and was so disappointed that it took such an obvious turn for the worst after the creator and original showrunner left after last season 🙁
I’m big into “you’re welcome” as a woman’s response to “thank you”. I’m SO OVER thanking people for thanking me, or being “like no problem! It’s ok! It’s nothing! My labour means nothing! Don’t even ever thank me because I exist for making your life easier. THANK YOU for asking me to do a task!”
I’m a younger woman professional in a office full of old white men, and I’m really embracing just saying “you’re welcome”. It is polite, but it acknowledges that I did a thing, that is valuable, that cost me time and effort, both of which is also valuable.
Feminism and etiquette, sweet bedmates.
This is great! I am going to bear it in mind in the future, for sure.
awwwwww yeeeeeeah
Yes! In a similar vein to learning to take a compliment, lest you also wind up saying something along the lines of, “It’s nothing! My labour means nothing!” I recently had a very unexpected professional success, of the variety big enough that I initially felt awkward about people fawning over it, and I wound up saying things that downplayed what I’d done–which is a serious problem since a lot of the people in question are the ones I’ll need to give me my next job. Took me months to learn to say, “Thank you!” or even, “Oh, thank you! I’m really proud of the work!” But no one seems offended by that!
Oh no! I’m a blanket “no problem!” – er. It started when I worked retail, BUT NOW IT IS A PART OF ME! Help!
Start with your friends! Every time you catch yourself “no problem”-ing to them, immediately and verbally correct yourself. You can even tell them why you’re doing it (see robotsneedlove’s comment above), but hopefully you’ll quickly learn to catch yourself before you say it, which will let you finish habit-changing without embarassment for the rest of the world.
Hey, advice-seeker from the first letter here! To answer the question about my relationship with the bride, and also, why is she so obsessed about this??–no, I’m not a bridesmaid nor BFF, but on the other hand, we’re very old friends, and I think basically the wedding has morphed into a Census-Taking On All Friendships…and those found lacking are getting the full-court press. (Yes my name and picture on the wedding website; no, no one asked me.) Our relationship & its history are meaningful to me for sure, but there are also good reasons why I’m not BFF nor bridesmaid (I mean, witness the fact that her bachelorette party activities and guest list do not appeal to me in the least), and I don’t think trying to force it is gonna produce the desired result.
All to say: yes, Ms. Proprietypants, you are exactly right that I was “looking for a magical excuse that would shut down further discussion” and your response is perfect–way better than just avoiding her phone calls which is what I’ve been doing so far! (Guess what, it did not make her less obsessed.) Double thanks because literally when I finish writing this comment, I am going to send the exact same message in response to someone else’s baby shower invitation! Truly, you are a unicorn to me!
Wedding…..website??
I know. I guess I’ve come to appreciate having all the details about accommodations, itinerary, transport, attire, etc. gathered together in one link. Saves a lot of annoying phone calls/emails/hotels.com searching. But, they seem to have a gravitational pull well beyond that. And some people probably love their wedding website, in which case, good on them! I just do not so much love being put on it without my permission, and now I either have to leave it there, or find a way to tell the bride I don’t want to be publicly associated with her wedding.
Okay, whoa. The wedding website thing is crazy. It’s a little weird when people do bios of the people in the wedding party, but for friends who are just attending? What section is that, even? Did they write up all the invited guests?
Speaking from experience: sometimes setting boundaries with these intense types of people will piss them off, but in the end you’re going to save yourself a lot of grief.
Yup that would be the “friends” section. I think if you put the question to the happy couple, they’d say they want to help guests get to know one another. My take is that once Bride had an empty website to fill, she went after it with a vengeance.
Typically I agree about setting boundaries with overbearing types–frankly, I resent the idea of rewarding someone for threatening to throw a fit–but: is shortly before the wedding actually an advisable time to set those boundaries? I feel like there’s a general sense that I’m a huge jerk if I make anything about me right now. I mean, I also object to the nonsensical idea that getting married somehow entitles a person to require absolute deference from all her friends and family for months on end. But I don’t know whether the pain:gain ratio of wading into that really makes sense here?
Oh I just wanted to add, I hope the reference to my being poor is just because of the proverbial “starving grad student”–I want to be really clear that I definitely do not equate my not being able to throw thousands of dollars at something I won’t even like with real poverty. The fact is, I’m getting an advanced degree without debt, I have a stable place to live, I have healthcare, and I even have a little bit of savings. Even in the U.S., let alone globally, this makes me crazy-lucky on a socioeconomic level. I just don’t want to succumb to the idea (as the NYT Styles would have it) that if there’s literally anything you can’t afford, then you’re struggling. Obscures the reality of poverty.
I started responding with “no problem” said in a terrible Russian accent for NO REASON WHATSOEVER
Ummm, I do this when I say ‘You’re welcome’. Perhaps internalizing Red’s character on Orange is the New Black? Cuz that’s my problem.
I feel obliged to point out that you always have the option of taking to the sea.
Y’all are the most polite, thoughtful commenters on the entire internet. It’s been a pleasure. Thank you.
Hi! I love both the Toast and etiquette but I have never commented here before! I’ve been wondering recently about what to do when I get thanked in EMAIL form. My workplace is very polite (NB I am British), but also very email and instant-messaging focused when it comes to communications, partly because a lot of the time we are working with people in other studios all over the world – the people I work most closely with, day to day, are not physically around. And my job is sort of an assistant type role, so a lot of the time, I get asked to do something and then do it, because that is my job, and then I’ll get an email that just says ‘Thanks, Alice!’ and I FREEZE UP, because WHAT DO YOU DO.
Like, someone mentioned above about the tone of ‘you’re welcome’ being really important, and I worry that writing it down it might sounds sarcastic! And also, sometimes other people are CCed on these mails and what if it annoys them to get loads of mails which are essentially not very informative? And if I leave it unacknowledged is that terrible? I’ve even had ones where I started the thanking, and then the other person is like ‘No, thank YOU’ and then I’m like IS THIS A TEST. The circle of thanks.
Anyway, in these situations (work ones, where I haven’t particularly gone above and beyond the call of duty or anything) generally my response is to say ‘Don’t worry about it!’ or ‘Any time!’ or ‘You’re welcome!’ only IF I can trust the recipient to not think I’m being passive aggressive. Or if I can morph it into yet another social interaction, to take the heat off the thanking thing – like ‘No problem! Have a great weekend!’ – then I do that too. A lot of thought goes into these things.
Ha! It sounds like you have some good solutions. In a work setting, and especially with tasks that are my job description, I’ll often focus on the outcome: “Glad I could help!” “Glad we could get it solved!” etc. As to the circles of thanks, especially when they’re perfunctory email form (an email that only says “Thanks!”), I think someone has to break the cycle and silence is a fine way to do it. And I follow your social interaction thinking for IMs, where I’m probably being half-social in discussing the task to begin with.
Of course, I say this all as an American Woman of the Office, where I’m intentionally practicing a higher level of taking credit for the things I do. I don’t know how much if any British self-abnegation to advise.
Focusing on the outcome is an excellent suggestion!
Also, I know it’s kind of a joke that British people are super polite – I’ve actually never really experienced a big difference in politeness between us and of any of the other groups of English speakers (Americans, Canadians, Australians, NZers, SAers, etc) myself, although saying that I have never been to any of those places so my contact with those folks is limited.
But sometimes I do wonder about the number of times per day we, or specifically I, say ‘sorry’. Does everyone do this, or are Brits the top sorry-sayers? We say it to get someone’s attention, or if we want to get past them, or if we think they want to get past us: ‘sorry for existing in the same space as you!’ Today I said ‘sorry’ when I’d closed the fridge and then realised there was another person in the vicinity who might have wanted something from the fridge. He didn’t. He was just walking past.
I’m an American and I say “excuse me” in most of those situations. I do remember that when I studied in the UK I would often say “excuse me” to get past someone, and then they would say “sorry,” and I felt bad because they hadn’t done anything, I was just walking faster than they were and wanted to alert them to my presence so we wouldn’t step on each other. So I started saying “sorry” in those situations, though after I came home I eventually stopped.
I generally think that it’s fine to let a standalone “thanks!” email go unanswered unless there’s some larger context–after all, we all have too many emails, & sending one just to say (essentially) “I saw & appreciated your thanks!” doesn’t seem necessary.
I’m also a big “have a great weekend!”-er, specifically for the reason you describe–it helps close out the interaction on a decidedly friendly note. & in the same vein, if you are responding to a “thank you” email, I don’t think anyone will interpret an opening “you’re welcome!” or similar as passive-aggressive unless they have their own issues–I mean, just from reading this, you don’t sound passive aggressive at ALL, & if anyone projects that onto your writing, that’s on them.
YOU ARE SO WISE. Seriously, I think I just did a bit of a Ted Theodore Logan face! I worry ALL THE TIME about whether people will think something awful about me, without ever really stopping to think ‘wait… am I projecting wilfully irrational thoughts onto other people when I have no reason to think they are constantly Judgey McJudgersoning me and everyone else at every turn?’
Man, ‘that’s on them.’ I love this advice! A sincere thanks!
you’re very welcome! worrying less about other peoples’ opinions has been a big part of my journey to adulthood–not to the point of callousness or obnoxiousness, but to stop letting hypothetical negative opinions (usually from people I don’t know very well &/or who don’t really deserve to have a significant role in my life) get in the way of my own happiness.
I’m also a chronic “sorry” sayer, & I’m trying to dial that back a bit too. I feel like women are often socialized to be overly considerate of other people, & titrating that to a more appropriate level takes work.
"Whoa."
Yeah, I am waiting for the day I have the nerve to smile brightly and recite a list of my freelance rates for [whatever].
It's one thing if someone with whom I have a social relationship is explicitly asking for a favor, but once they take the approach of "You have the skills to do this and the free time, so I'll let you," I presume they must be negotiating to hire me or they'd be a little more conciliatory. (I don't presume that at all; I know that 90% of the time they're just assuming my time and work have no value. But that is their mistake.)
I'm from NorCal too, and when people say "polite" things to me I always feel like they're freezing me out. I think in the bay area it's rude to be polite, and polite to be kind of cheerful-rude.
I'm with you on the not-answering. Usually the "thanks" is just a pleasant way for someone to achieve closure on a thread. Not to say that they aren't thankful, but there's a subtext of, "ok that's taken care of, the end"
I'm a woman who errs on the side of not worrying too much about what other people are thinking, but occasionally I'll get shamed for it, or (even worse) actually hurt someone's feelings. I think it's damned-if-you-do, damned-you-don't.